When will it all end?

El_Duderino 09

KaneToad wrote: »

It's also possible that the British govt are being economical with the truth.

Totally assume it. But they might or might not be correct. They won’t know until it happens. This is Boris Johnson were talking about, not someone reliable.

Time will tell

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

IF deaths and hospitalisations are low, then...

As it stands we don’t know what it will be like when most ropes are vaccinated and we reopen and get rid of restrictions. Maybe it’ll be fine and hospitalisation and deaths will stay low. Maybe not. Only time will tell.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-vaccines-effectiveness-highlighted-by-u-k-data-11614008331

https://www.dw.com/en/vaccine-prevents-989-of-covid-19-deaths-israel/a-56638291

deaths and hospitalizations have absolutely plummeted in countries ahead of us in the vaccination schedule there's no reason to assume that it'll be any different here but the government keep rambling on about new variants even though there's been thousands already but they keep banging that drum

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

in what way? I don't think boris is foolish enough to hype up people's expectations only to back out at the last minute bar something absolutely catastrophic happening. if he breaks the current schedule without a very good reason it'd destroy the careers of just about everyone in cabinet

Ah, so can I assume you have t been following the uk approach to this whole thing so far? Schools - changing policy from day to day. Scolding Scotland and then following their lead. Telling people it was patriotic to return to the city centre to work and then going into lockdown again.

Johnson has a pretty strong track record of saying whatever people want to hear in the moment and going back on it later. Call it “getting people’s hopes up” if you want. But just because he said it doesn’t mean anything.

But it might work out and he might not have to go back on his word again this time. We’ll find out in time.

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, so can I assume you have t been following the uk approach to this whole thing so far? Schools - changing policy from day to day. Scolding Scotland and then following their lead. Telling people it was patriotic to return to the city centre to work and then going into lockdown again.

Johnson has a pretty strong track record of saying whatever people want to hear in the moment and going back on it later. Call it “getting people’s hopes up” if you want. But just because he said it doesn’t mean anything.

But it might work out and he might not have to go back on his word again this time. We’ll find out in time.

but if their deaths and hospitalizations have plummeted why would they have to backtrack?

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

so we're going vaccinating people but it's not going to make any difference as to moving back to normal? lol makes perfect sense. also the genetic difference thing wasn't a genuine question it was sarcasm in case you had trouble picking it up. my simple question is that if vaccinating the majority of people, whether that happens in June or august or whenever isn't enough to end restrictions what will ? if the uk can put a date on a permanent end why can't we

Who said vaccinating people is not going to make any difference as to moving back to normal?

The answer to your question (and I’m pretty sure I already said this) is that IF vaccination isn’t enough, then they don’t know the answer.

If they vaccinate most of the population in good time before the weather cools, and we drop restrictions and hospitalisation mad deaths go way up again, what would you suggest happen next? Reimpose some restrictions again or just let hospitals become overrun?

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

but if their deaths and hospitalizations have plummeted why would they have to backtrack?

If deaths and hospitalisations plummet? Then they wouldn’t have to backtrack.

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who said vaccinating people is not going to make any difference as to moving back to normal?

The answer to your question (and I’m pretty sure I already said this) is that IF vaccination isn’t enough, then they don’t know the answer.

If they vaccinate most of the population in good time before the weather cools, and we drop restrictions and hospitalisation mad deaths go way up again, what would you suggest happen next? Reimpose some restrictions again or just let hospitals become overrun?

where are you getting this idea that deaths and hospitalizations are going to increase once we open up even if we vaccinate most people? the opposite has happened in countries ahead of us.

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If deaths and hospitalisations plummet? Then they wouldn’t have to backtrack.

not 'if' they already have. you said in your above post johnson might have to go back on his word without elaborating any further

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-vaccines-effectiveness-highlighted-by-u-k-data-11614008331

https://www.dw.com/en/vaccine-prevents-989-of-covid-19-deaths-israel/a-56638291

deaths and hospitalizations have absolutely plummeted in countries ahead of us in the vaccination schedule there's no reason to assume that it'll be any different here but the government keep rambling on about new variants even though there's been thousands already but they keep banging that drum

Ah yeah but we’re talking about the possibility of reimposing restrictions next winter when the weather, not now while the weather is warming.

Great news that deaths are dropping in Israel. Israel’s 7day death average is up at the moment but it’s down in general which is good news.

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

not 'if' they already have. you said in your above post johnson might have to go back on his word without elaborating any further

He’d have to go back on his word if things don’t go to plan. He claimed they’d get rid of all restrictions (even distancing) in July. That’s very ambitious and might or might not be realistic. Time will tell.

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah yeah but we’re talking about the possibility of reimposing restrictions next winter when the weather, not now while the weather is warming.

Great news that deaths are dropping in Israel. Israel’s 7day death average is up at the moment but it’s down in general which is good news.

what does the weather have to do with the effectiveness of vaccines? your argument makes absolutely no sense

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He’d have to go back on his word if things don’t go to plan. He claimed they’d get rid of all restrictions (even distancing) in July. That’s very ambitious and might or might not be realistic. Time will tell.

time won't tell you the plummeting death and hospitalization rates will tell. what's the point in continuing restrictions once the majority are vaccinated?

ujjjjjjjjj

Key is to ignore cases once lockdown lifts and also stop testing and only pay attention to hospitalisations and deaths - all the data from Israel and UK pointing to drops in hospitalisations and deaths already and it will only get better. It's called herd immunity.....which was the only way this thing was ever going to end, humans need to get used to a new virus and they will. Vaccines speed it up but look at India they have effectively reached herd immunity themselves.....

Cases then become irrelevant, would be like the number of people with a cold or the flu being reported as the main news item on the evening news, utterly pointless.

Everything is positive with the vaccination data bar the glacial roleout in the EU due to utter incompetence.

Latest one is looks like the Germans are suddenly about to do a u-turn and recommend the AZ vaccine for all ages including the over 65's.

Silence of course in Ireland about Saint Holohan's solo run on this one which I called out at the time as the wrong decision but hey ho he knows better.....

E mac

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who said vaccinating people is not going to make any difference as to moving back to normal?

The answer to your question (and I’m pretty sure I already said this) is that IF vaccination isn’t enough, then they don’t know the answer.

If they vaccinate most of the population in good time before the weather cools, and we drop restrictions and hospitalisation mad deaths go way up again, what would you suggest happen next? Reimpose some restrictions again or just let hospitals become overrun?

Hospitals being overrun during winter was a norm back in normal times...

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

where are you getting this idea that deaths and hospitalizations are going to increase once we open up even if we vaccinate most people? the opposite has happened in countries ahead of us.

I asked you a few questions which you haven’t even attempted to answer. Since I’m doing my best to answer the questions you ask, could you start returning the favour?

I’ll answer the question you asked but I’d like you to answer this question from the last post you quoted: “If they vaccinate most of the population in good time before the weather cools, and we drop restrictions and hospitalisation and deaths go way up again, what would you suggest happen next? Reimpose some restrictions again or just let hospitals become overrun?”

My answer to your question is that they don’t know what will happen when we vaccinate AND drop restrictions. Maybe things will be fine, maybe hospitalisations and deaths will stay low next winter and we won’t need to change. Maybe they will rise next winter and we’ll need to react. Do you know what will happen next winter?

WomanSkirtFan8

Speakerboxx wrote: »

When will things go back to normal?

With vaccines now available will we be here In January 2022 with covid dominating the news headlines? I would love to know.

Nobody knows for certain dude. I'd say probably from the autum of this year onwards but can't really say for certain.

El_Duderino 09

ypres5 wrote: »

what does the weather have to do with the effectiveness of vaccines? your argument makes absolutely no sense

Ah, ypres5, it’s pretty well established that the virus has a seasonal component. If things will go well, it’s likely to be when the weather warms. If things will go badly it’s likely to happen when the weather cools.

Did you seriously not know about the seasonal aspect covid?

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I asked you a few questions which you haven’t even attempted to answer. Since I’m doing my best to answer the questions you ask, could you start returning the favour?

I’ll answer the question you asked but I’d like you to answer this question from the last post you quoted: “If they vaccinate most of the population in good time before the weather cools, and we drop restrictions and hospitalisation and deaths go way up again, what would you suggest happen next? Reimpose some restrictions again or just let hospitals become overrun?”

My answer to your question is that they don’t know what will happen when we vaccinate AND drop restrictions. Maybe things will be fine, maybe hospitalisations and deaths will stay low next winter and we won’t need to change. Maybe they will rise next winter and we’ll need to react. Do you know what will happen next winter?

i already responded to your question by saying what I've said 3 or 4 times previous by pointing out that deaths and hospitalizations have reduced significantly in the frontrunners. I don't know how many times i need to keep saying it. what you're saying is we should keep living under restrictions 'just in case' which is ridiculous and unsustainable. the most vulnerable groups are getting their shots so there'll be no reason to continue restrictions and unless you have proof that the weather affects the vaccines efficacy I think it's best to leave it here

ypres5

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, ypres5, it’s pretty well established that the virus has a seasonal component. If things will go well, it’s likely to be when the weather warms. If things will go badly it’s likely to happen when the weather cools.

Did you seriously not know about the seasonal aspect covid?

for about the 5th time if the majority of the population is vaccinated that won't come into play. either you're not reading what I'm saying or something isn't registering either way I'm not going around in circles with you anymore. if the population is vaccinated then seasonality won't matter

Oscar Madison

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah, ypres5, it’s pretty well established that the virus has a seasonal component. If things will go well, it’s likely to be when the weather warms. If things will go badly it’s likely to happen when the weather cools.

Did you seriously not know about the seasonal aspect covid?

This thing is here TO STAY for the foreseeable future!

In my mind at least is a man made virus and it will kill millions of us!

Mabe it's a NWO thing, a slow wipe out of surplus members of the human race?

All talk with little or no action by the big players!

Kunta Kinte

Oscar Madison wrote: »

This thing is here TO STAY for the foreseeable future!

In my mind at least is a man made virus and it will kill millions of us!

Mabe it's a NWO thing, a slow wipe out of surplus members of the human race?

All talk with little or no action by the big players!

Conspiracy theory forum is thataway.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Scotty #

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

all the data from Israel and UK pointing to drops in hospitalisations and deaths already and it will only get better.

Isreal's numbers have been on the increase for the last 6 days in a row unfortunately, despite 1km lockdown and 50% vaccinated. 4,100 new cases just yesterday. Serious/critical numbers on the rise too.

You can't take anything Johnson says seriously. Read the UK Roadmap for yourself.

This is the last paragraph of the their Roadmap summary...

As we move through each of these phases in the roadmap, we must all remember that COVID-19 remains a part of our lives. We are going to have to keep living our lives differently to keep ourselves and others safe. We must carry on with ‘hands, face, space’. Comply with the COVID-Secure measures that remain in place. Meet outdoors when we can and keep letting fresh air in. Get tested when needed. Get vaccinated when offered.

W123-80's

ypres5 wrote: »

so we're going vaccinating people but it's not going to make any difference as to moving back to normal? lol makes perfect sense. also the genetic difference thing wasn't a genuine question it was sarcasm in case you had trouble picking it up. my simple question is that if vaccinating the majority of people, whether that happens in June or august or whenever isn't enough to end restrictions what will ? if the uk can put a date on a permanent end why can't we

The UK didn't put a date on a permanent end?

Or if they did I certainly missed that news.
Stick up a link or something, I'm interested to read about the date for a permanent end.

Oscar Madison

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Conspiracy theory forum is thataway.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A question was asked and I gave an opinion!

There was a superb BBC documentary on the Covid 19 and the Chinese

Governments reaction to it which was all hush, hush.

The U.S. Governments reaction to it when it his the U.S. was appalling but no different to the Chinese!

Agencies in the U.S. (such as the FDA) that wouldn't speak with the BBC.

So much for open government!

ypres5

W123-80's wrote: »

The UK didn't put a date on a permanent end?

Or if they did I certainly missed that news.
Stick up a link or something, I'm interested to read about the date for a permanent end.

you could always try googling yourself it's not that difficult

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-56158405&ved=2ahUKEwishY6_z43vAhWbh1wKHZUJDXgQFjABegQIAhAG&usg=AOvVaw198PoL0g9S2mibtKzUqa6E&ampcf=1

Beasty

Oscar Madison wrote: »

A question was asked and I gave an opinion!

It has been repeatedly instructed across this forum

Take any conspiracy stuff to the Conspiracy Theories Forum

Do not post such "opinion" here

W123-80's

ypres5 wrote: »

you could always try googling yourself it's not that difficult

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-56158405&ved=2ahUKEwishY6_z43vAhWbh1wKHZUJDXgQFjABegQIAhAG&usg=AOvVaw198PoL0g9S2mibtKzUqa6E&ampcf=1

I was hoping for a link to something that showed where the UK have announced a permanent end to Covid.
That's just the caveat littered plan with ambitious dates we have all read.
I have highlighted a few bits below. That's just from the first paragraph of the BBC article you linked.
If you go into the main UK government website and read the actual plan is not a garauntee. It's a plan based on data.

No one knows what's gonna happen.

A new four-step plan to ease England's lockdown could see all legal limits on social contact lifted by 21 June, if strict conditions are met.

Shops, hairdressers, gyms and outdoor hospitality could reopen on 12 April in England under plans set out by the PM.

From 17 May, two households might be allowed to mix in homes, while the rule of six could apply in places like pubs.

It requires four tests on vaccines, infection rates and new coronavirus variants to be met at each stage.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson told MPs the plan aimed to be "cautious but irreversible" and at every stage decisions would be led by "data not dates".

There was "no credible route to a zero-Covid Britain nor indeed a zero-Covid world", he said.

ypres5

W123-80's wrote: »

I was hoping for a link to something that showed where the UK have announced a permanent end to Covid.
That's just the caveat littered plan with ambitious dates we have all read.
I have highlighted a few bits below. That's just from the first paragraph of the BBC article you linked.
If you go into the main UK government website and read the actual plan is not a garauntee. It's a plan based on data.

No one knows what's gonna happen.

you asked me for a link to the uk government's plan and I gave it to you. they plan on bringing an irreversible end to restrictions by june you're just moving the goalposts now

ujjjjjjjjj

Scotty # wrote: »

Isreal's numbers have been on the increase for the last 6 days in a row unfortunately, despite 1km lockdown and 50% vaccinated. 4,100 new cases just yesterday. Serious/critical numbers on the rise too.

You can't take anything Johnson says seriously. Read the UK Roadmap for yourself.

This is the last paragraph of the their Roadmap summary...

As we move through each of these phases in the roadmap, we must all remember that COVID-19 remains a part of our lives. We are going to have to keep living our lives differently to keep ourselves and others safe. We must carry on with ‘hands, face, space’. Comply with the COVID-Secure measures that remain in place. Meet outdoors when we can and keep letting fresh air in. Get tested when needed. Get vaccinated when offered.

Cases may spike and Israel hasn't reached herd immunity so as restrictions and people being to ease off you will still get small spikes in hospitalizations as there are still lots of people with little immunity. In a few months you will be reading articles about low and maneeagable hospitalizations and deaths in Israel with their internal society fully open. Cases are irrelevant if hospitalizations and deaths are low and maneageable.

I read the entire UK document, for me it is too cautious but it is an excellent document. If you carefully read the bit you have posted it refers to hands, faces space etc is during the next few months as they open up......

Once they hit 21st June all going well they will lift all legal restrictions and anything will just be advisory after that and good luck with that.....

I am confident they will hit this target.

W123-80's

ypres5 wrote: »

you asked me for a link to the uk government's plan and I gave it to you. they plan on bringing an irreversible end to restrictions by june you're just moving the goalposts now

No. I'm not moving the goalposts.
You stated the UK government can put a date on a permanent end to this.
I asked for a link to this. Any link. I didn't ask for a link to the UK government plan. There would have been no point in me asking for a link to the UK Government plan, as I have already read it and I know it contains no dates for a permanent end.
It contains dates that they hope to meet depending on the data.
These dates may or may not need to be pushed out. This is quite clear from reading the plan.

I'm not going to be a dick and ask for the link again. I appreciate your understanding of their plan is that they will open society like it's 2019 in June.
I hope you are right, but I fear that will not happen and I think Boris Johnson is failing to manage the expectations of his population.
As I said I hope and pray I am wrong, but I would be very very surprised if Covid "ends" in the UK in June.