When will it all end?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0303/1200589-coronavirus-vaccine/

So last week we failed to hit the miserly target of 100k shots. Will totally be recovered though.

Sobit1964

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Maybe so but if you don’t feel like your being informed by the media that’s most in your face, the it’s nobody’s responsibility but your own, to find better media.

I also think that lots of people are surprised that the pandemic is going on longer than they expected because they dismissed news they didn’t want to hear as “doom and gloom”. The fact the people are surprised by the questions emerging now around aspects of vaccine efficacy (mild illness, severe illness, hospitalisation and death) is evidence that they haven’t grasped the no alliances of the subject. Whether they were never told about them because they used poor news, or were told about those things and dismissed them, I don’t know.

Or.

People are surprised that lockdown is still going on as they have the ability to sift news and critically assess data themselves. They are shocked how many people are terrified of normal life due to the bad news and terrible reporting of the legacy media.

ujjjjjjjjj

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Maybe so but if you don’t feel like your being informed by the media that’s most in your face, the it’s nobody’s responsibility but your own, to find better media.

I also think that lots of people are surprised that the pandemic is going on longer than they expected because they dismissed news they didn’t want to hear as “doom and gloom”. The fact the people are surprised by the questions emerging now around aspects of vaccine efficacy (mild illness, severe illness, hospitalisation and death) is evidence that they haven’t grasped the no alliances of the subject. Whether they were never told about them because they used poor news, or were told about those things and dismissed them, I don’t know.

Sorry but exactly what Irish media source do you advise using for your 'better news'. RTE as a national broadcaster you expect to have reasonable standards.

I actually don't rely on news to make decisions I read primary material and data, make my own mind up about the subject and then use the news as a way to see what policy decisions are being made at government level and how they are being held to scrutiny as well of course as using it as a basic heads up as to what major events are going on in the world.

You seem to suggest that anyone who doesn't like what is happening in in the pandemic / length of restrictions etc is simply picking the wrong news source....RTE is the national broadcaster which we are all taxed to pay for. Expecting a balanced view and a critical eye on government policy is not an unreasonable request.

El_Duderino 09

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Was ignoring the reply as it was glib (being polite). You are right, we all pay a tax which we have to pay called the TV licence which largely goes to fund RTE (yes OK you can opt not to have a TV..so please avoid that post) so I think we have a right to comment on RTE.

If it was a subscription service fine but it isn't.

Comment on RTE all you want. But complaining that you’re not well enough informed on the issue is self-defeating.

The kind of theatre you talked about where the news presenters ask politicians to give prepared answers to obvious questions, isn’t going to enlighten anyone anyway. It’s part of the news process but it’s hardly going to yield terribly interesting results.

It’s one person’s responsibility to make sure you’re informed.

The people who seem shocked that there’s a whole process to work through regarding vaccine testing, manufacturing, procurement, and administration, and then there are a whole series of questions around efficacy, means they haven’t been informed about those things until now. But those things have been discussed over the last year in good news sources. So they either haven’t been getting good news or haven’t been paying attention.

francogarbanzo

Scotty # wrote: »

While Florida may not have many restrictions at state level, most individual counties within it do.

Florida's numbers are nothing to aspire to!

To your first point, that's disingenuous. Individual Florida counties may have a certain level of restrictions, but zero counties have enacted stay at home orders (like ours) or kept businesses closed. As far as I can tell, the only county specific restrictions have to do with mask wearing and distance between tables inside bars and restaurants. Florida hasn't had anything resembling a lockdown since May 2020, not state-wide, and not county-specific either.

To your second point, compared to what? Compared to other states, even ones with much tougher restrictions, Florida is not even in the top 25 in deaths per million. They're 29th out of 50 in cases per million. And they're the state with the second oldest population, only behind Maine (which has a tiny population overall.)

Scotty #

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Individual Florida counties may have a certain level of restrictions

Is that not exactly what I said?

francogarbanzo wrote: »

To your second point, compared to what?

Well, us, obviously.

Florida deaths per million: 1,456
Ireland deaths per million: 876

El_Duderino 09

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Sorry but exactly what Irish media source do you advise using for your 'better news'. RTE as a national broadcaster you expect to have reasonable standards.

I actually don't rely on news to make decisions I read primary material and data, make my own mind up about the subject and then use the news as a way to see what policy decisions are being made at government level and how they are being held to scrutiny as well of course as using it as a basic heads up as to what major events are going on in the world.

You seem to suggest that anyone who doesn't like what is happening in in the pandemic / length of restrictions etc is simply picking the wrong news source.... RTE is the national broadcaster which we are all taxed to pay for. Expecting a balanced view and a critical eye on government policy is not an unreasonable request.

RTE does have a reasonable standard. Look at America for an accessible example of terrible news. But there's no point me suggesting sources so you can shoot them down. You'll have to have a look for yourself. The in-depth discussion of what to expect is often in interviews, podcasts and foreign news sources.

RTE is grand as broadcasters go. It's not reasonable top expect news readers to be investigative journalists. The alternative at the moment is to have Rupert Murdock pick and edit your news for you and that's definitely inferior (but more entertaining) than RTE.

If you read primary news sources, then you're in the minority (I'm not suggesting you're not telling the truth). Very few people read government announcements at source or read research articles.

The bit in bold: I think i was pretty clear that i was talking about the people who were surprised at the length of the pandemic and restrictions post vaccine - not about people who don't like the length. I don't like the length but I was not surprised by it as I was getting news that talked about these kinds of issues over the last year. If someone is surprised by the vaccine process and the time needed to get back to normal, then they either we'ren't getting good news or weren't taking it in.

Sobit1964

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The bit in bold: I think i was pretty clear that i was talking about the people who were surprised at the length of the pandemic and restrictions post vaccine - not about people who don't like the length. I don't like the length but I was not surprised by it as I was getting news that talked about these kinds of issues over the last year. If someone is surprised by the vaccine process and the time needed to get back to normal, then they either we'ren't getting good news or weren't taking it in.

Maybe they are surprised as we will soon be celebrating the one year anniversary of 'two weeks to flatten the curve'?

El_Duderino 09

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Or.

People are surprised that lockdown is still going on as they have the ability to sift news and critically assess data themselves. They are shocked how many people are terrified of normal life due to the bad news and terrible reporting of the legacy media.

If they were doing a good job of sifting the news themselves, then they wouldn't be surprised that it's going on this long.

ujjjjjjjjj

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Comment on RTE all you want. But complaining that you’re not well enough informed on the issue is self-defeating.

The kind of theatre you talked about where the news presenters ask politicians to give prepared answers to obvious questions, isn’t going to enlighten anyone anyway. It’s part of the news process but it’s hardly going to yield terribly interesting results.

It’s one person’s responsibility to make sure you’re informed.

The people who seem shocked that there’s a whole process to work through regarding vaccine testing, manufacturing, procurement, and administration, and then there are a whole series of questions around efficacy, means they haven’t been informed about those things until now. But those things have been discussed over the last year in good news sources. So they either haven’t been getting good news or haven’t been paying attention.

I am perfectly well informed thank you as I do primary research myself. Don't worry I don't rely on RTE but many people don't have the time, academic ability, intelligence or understanding to be able to sift through primary materials.

I am interested though as to what news sources you think are good in Ireland ? I genuinely can't find one who during the pandemic I have found even close to satisfactory. Bar the odd outlier in the Irish media in general they adopt a general low confrontation approach with the Irish government as they know if they are too confrontational they don't get access.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0303/1200589-coronavirus-vaccine/

So last week we failed to hit the miserly target of 100k shots. Will totally be recovered though.

Yeah the problem is that we don't know what the limit is on the Irish side yet. The bottleneck so far is vaccine supply. They seem able to administer at least as many vaccines as they have have received up to this point. Is administering 250,000 vaccines a week target realistic? We don't know because they haven't had anything near that number in supply in a week yet. Time will tell

ujjjjjjjjj

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

RTE does have a reasonable standard. Look at America for an accessible example of terrible news. But there's no point me suggesting sources so you can shoot them down. You'll have to have a look for yourself. The in-depth discussion of what to expect is often in interviews, podcasts and foreign news sources.

RTE is grand as broadcasters go. It's not reasonable top expect news readers to be investigative journalists. The alternative at the moment is to have Rupert Murdock pick and edit your news for you and that's definitely inferior (but more entertaining) than RTE.

If you read primary news sources, then you're in the minority (I'm not suggesting you're not telling the truth). Very few people read government announcements at source or read research articles.

The bit in bold: I think i was pretty clear that i was talking about the people who were surprised at the length of the pandemic and restrictions post vaccine - not about people who don't like the length. I don't like the length but I was not surprised by it as I was getting news that talked about these kinds of issues over the last year. If someone is surprised by the vaccine process and the time needed to get back to normal, then they either we'ren't getting good news or weren't taking it in.

Well if you think RTE is 'grand' I think I'll stop here........thanks for the chat.

El_Duderino 09

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Maybe they are surprised as we will soon be celebrating the one year anniversary of 'two weeks to flatten the curve'?

Maybe. If that's the level on which they take in news then I'd say that's not the only thing they're surprised about.

El_Duderino 09

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Well if you think RTE is 'grand' I think I'll stop here........thanks for the chat.

RTE is grand as a broadcaster. It depends on what you expect a broadcaster to do. If you expect it to be your mammy and daddy and teach you all you need to know, then you'll be disappointed when you find out the reality. I don't get cross with RTE, i just have a realistic expectation of what it provides.

Ok. Stop it there. Stop taking in new information - seems par for the course in these discussions. But whatever you do, don't forget the irony of your response when you generously called mine "glib" earlier.

ujjjjjjjjj

No worries - let's just agree to diasgree on RTE - I think they little more than a government mouthpiece (not because they are fundamentally out to get us....conspiracy story stuff) but because to get access to government they need to toe the line. Start really being a journalist and deeply questioning government and RTE will just get the 'spokesperson not available stuff'. I have no problem with the latter as it really means journalists are actually doing their job.

No self respecting journalist will ever stay in RTE long. But to those who stay I understand it - safe job, pension, access, profile and being surrounded by echo chambers - what is not to like ?

I think the issue with RTE is as we are all taxed (and we have no option) to support them we are entitled to ask questions.

You on the other hand think they are grand. That's fine.

We disagree. No issue with that.

El_Duderino 09

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

No worries - let's just agree to diasgree on RTE - I think they little more than a government mouthpiece (not because they are fundamentally out to get us....conspiracy story stuff) but because to get access to government they need to toe the line. Start really being a journalist and deeply questioning government and RTE will just get the 'spokesperson not available stuff'. I have no problem with the latter as it really means journalists are actually doing their job.

No self respecting journalist will ever stay in RTE long. But to those who stay I understand it - safe job, pension, access, profile and being surrounded by echo chambers - what is not to like ?

I think the issue with RTE is as we are all taxed (and we have no option) to support them we are entitled to ask questions.

You on the other hand think they are grand. That's fine.

We disagree. No issue with that.

Agree to disagree, but I think it's indicative that we're stuck talking about RTE as if they're the only source of news. They're not. They are a state broadcaster and (i think) they fulfil the role of national broadcaster "grand". They're still stuck with the established TV format of news presenter stabbing the obvious questions at politicians for 3 minutes and the politician has to stick to their prepared answers for those 3 minutes. It's not likely to be a very enlightening experience for anyone. But they're only one news source.

That's part of the picture, but it's not going to answer all the questions. The fact remains that lots of people either don't get good news or they just dismiss the news they don't want to hear. Every time you read someone on this thread say "Shur, we just need to vaccinate the over 85s, 80s, 75s etc. and drop the restrictions" you know they haven't been taking in any kind of in-depth discussions of the topic. Likewise when people dismiss the possibility of next winter causing a major problem, you know they haven't been engaging on the topic. These discussions have been held over the last year. Whether people get involved in them or not is a completely separate matter.

bluelamp

The airports in Belfast must be delighted.

Ryanair have launched 8 new sun routes from Belfast City airport, after having no routes from there in 11 years.

https://www.goqradio.com/belfast/news/q-radio-local-news/watch-belfast-city-airport-boss-welcomes-ryanair-return/

Plumbthedepths

bluelamp wrote: »

The airports in Belfast must be delighted.

Ryanair have launched 8 new sun routes from Belfast City airport, after having no routes from there in 11 years.

https://www.goqradio.com/belfast/news/q-radio-local-news/watch-belfast-city-airport-boss-welcomes-ryanair-return/

Going to make a nonsense of the €2000 fine travelling from Dublin airport.

ujjjjjjjjj

bluelamp wrote: »

The airports in Belfast must be delighted.

Ryanair have launched 8 new sun routes from Belfast City airport, after having no routes from there in 11 years.

https://www.goqradio.com/belfast/news/q-radio-local-news/watch-belfast-city-airport-boss-welcomes-ryanair-return/

Brilliant news for Belfast, Ryanair already getting ready for May June when travel restrictions lift in the UK and the Southern Irish flood across the border to get away.....once the North opens this thing is over bar closing the border.....

Tazz T

bluelamp wrote: »

I wouldn't write off travel just yet.

Greece has already jumped ship from the EU vaccine passport, saying its taking too long and they will allow anyone in with either a vaccine, or negative test, with no quarantine.

They have been open for travel since July last year - and despite the blame on all things travel in Ireland, Greece has done far better than us with case numbers.

Cyprus, Israel, and Greece are opening travel corridors with each other.

Spain has said it will act unilaterally and allow visitors in from the UK regardless of the EU decisions.

Portugal is pushing for freedom of movement within the EU as soon as possible.

The EU need to come up with an action plan soon if they want to manage travel as a group. Otherwise more countries are going to make their own decisions.

Greece is far from open for travel at the moment. They're talking about 1st June onwards, but currently battling a new wave despite severe lockdown since December (UK variant to blame by the looks of things). They need to get that under control before then, but two months will probably do it.

Looking at some of the new 'waves' in Europe, it seems to be the countries that managed to avoid the worst of earlier waves (or didn't have the full three waves) that are being affected. The learning might that severe lockdowns simply delay the inevitable and the best strategy is what it was at the beginning - 'flatten the curve' and protect the hospitals from being overrun while the virus runs its course.

ujjjjjjjjj

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Agree to disagree, but I think it's indicative that we're stuck talking about RTE as if they're the only source of news. They're not. They are a state broadcaster and (i think) they fulfil the role of national broadcaster "grand". They're still stuck with the established TV format of news presenter stabbing the obvious questions at politicians for 3 minutes and the politician has to stick to their prepared answers for those 3 minutes. It's not likely to be a very enlightening experience for anyone. But they're only one news source.

That's part of the picture, but it's not going to answer all the questions. The fact remains that lots of people either don't get good news or they just dismiss the news they don't want to hear. Every time you read someone on this thread say "Shur, we just need to vaccinate the over 85s, 80s, 75s etc. and drop the restrictions" you know they haven't been taking in any kind of in-depth discussions of the topic. Likewise when people dismiss the possibility of next winter causing a major problem, you know they haven't been engaging on the topic. These discussions have been held over the last year. Whether people get involved in them or not is a completely separate matter.

Or perhaps they have reviewed all the data and information and come to the conclusion that once the elderly (whatever line they draw) and the medically vulnerable are vaccinated that the risk is minimal to the rest of the population and the risk of not opening up and damage being caused outweighs the minor risk left..................

Just because someone disagrees with the government approach and the RTE feeding of it does not mean they haven't been taking an in-depth approach to their own research and opinion forming.

ujjjjjjjjj

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Going to make a nonsense of the €2000 fine travelling from Dublin airport.

Entire thing will become a joke despite ranting and outrage on RTE - all that will happen is piles of Southern Irish will head North fly off to whichever sun destination is taking vaccinated tourists (Spain and Greece both look likely very soon) and there is sweet FA that the Irish government can do about it.

If the Irish government had half a brain cell it would immediately be working with the British government to create an identical travel strategy across the UK and Ireland under the CTA. As it stands the UK is honouring the CTA as you can enter the UK unrestricted from Ireland but the Irish government isn't as if you are coming from mainland UK you have to isolate etc. Of course many people who need to travel to Ireland from the UK are just using NI backdoor. This would allow free travel in the CTA with further overseas travel having exactly the same restrictions so if for example Greece takes vaccinated tourists Irish or British people can fly there.

If the Irish government doesn't do this it gurantees that people will head North to get away. The only way Ireland could ensure independent integrity with it's own travel restrictions is to close the NI border.

Anything else is a fudge.

El_Duderino 09

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Or perhaps they have reviewed all the data and information and come to the conclusion that once the elderly (whatever line they draw) and the medically vulnerable are vaccinated that the risk is minimal to the rest of the population and the risk of not opening up and damage being caused outweighs the minor risk left..................

Just because someone disagrees with the government approach and the RTE feeding of it does not mean they haven't been taking an in-depth approach to their own research and opinion forming.

Yeah but that’s finger in the air stuff. If people have made decisions about how vaccinating they over (insert age here) are vaccinated then we should open up, it’s based on the desire to open up, not any kind of analysis of the data.

You keep bringing up RTE.

The discussion about when exactly to reopen this summer is a fair one. The weather will be the bigger determining factor than the vaccination as the vaccine supply has been so much slower than anticipated so far. No point expecting any change this month. The giver has made its position pretty clear. Best we can hope for is an increased supply of vaccine and a warm March and April. We’ll open up during the summer.

The bigger questions are around next winter and what happens to hospitalisations and deaths. Only time will tell.

Tazz T

beggars_bush wrote: »

People in greece haven't been stuck inside all winter
They don't have a land border with one of the most highly infected countries in the world, a lot of whom decided to travel here before xmas

Greece have been stuck inside all winter. You need to apply online to go to the shop for groceries. And they've had huge problems with infections coming through the northern macedonian border.

~70 people under 55 have died with Covid in the last year.
117 people 55-65 have died with Covid in the last year.

Hurry the **** up, get over 65s then over 55s vaccinated and open up.

bucketybuck

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

If the Irish government had half a brain cell it would immediately be working with the British government to create an identical travel strategy across the UK and Ireland under the CTA.

If this government has shown anything, it is that they don't do anything.

No plans, no ideas, no improvements, no suggestions, nothing. They have sat on their hands and buried their heads in the sand when even just a small amount of proactivity could have helped a lot of people.

Talking to their closest neighbour and developing some simple coping strategies wouldn't even be a massive challenge politically and they couldn't manage even that.

They are utterly useless.

Tazz T

bluelamp wrote: »

The airports in Belfast must be delighted.

Ryanair have launched 8 new sun routes from Belfast City airport, after having no routes from there in 11 years.

https://www.goqradio.com/belfast/news/q-radio-local-news/watch-belfast-city-airport-boss-welcomes-ryanair-return/

I brought this up a few pages back. This was a cert. City of Derry next.

Scotty #

Deleted User wrote: »

~70 people under 55 have died with Covid in the last year.
117 people 55-65 have died with Covid in the last year.

Hurry the **** up, get over 65s then over 55s vaccinated and open up.

How many have been hospitalised?

ujjjjjjjjj

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but that’s finger in the air stuff. If people have made decisions about how vaccinating they over (insert age here) are vaccinated then we should open up, it’s based on the desire to open up, not any kind of analysis of the data.

You keep bringing up RTE.

The discussion about when exactly to reopen this summer is a fair one. The weather will be the bigger determining factor than the vaccination as the vaccine supply has been so much slower than anticipated so far. No point expecting any change this month. The giver has made its position pretty clear. Best we can hope for is an increased supply of vaccine and a warm March and April. We’ll open up during the summer.

The bigger questions are around next winter and what happens to hospitalisations and deaths. Only time will tell.

Read the CSO data and you will clearly see there is an tiny risk to younger and middle aged people and the death and hospitalizations are heavily weighted to the very elderly......... This data is mirrored across the world and has been since last Jan with the first sets of Chinese data.

If you are under 65 Covid should not be a concern for you unless you have a severe underlying health condition - if you are concerned you are either neurotic or you have totally bought into all the hysteria been fed to us.

If you are over 65 is Covid a death sentence ? - no, but some caution and care is sensible and it's clear now that our dysfunctional health service can't cope with any significant load so the government will continue to lockdown so to speak.

If you are 80 plus or in very poor health it is a more serious risk and the numbers of dead in this age bracket show that more caution is needed but the great irony is the one section of the population that needed protecting wasn't as the virus got into nursing homes which could have easily been prevented.

There is huge logic to drawing a line in the sand and opening up once a certain age cohort have been vaccinated. It is a balance between the damage being caused by the virus and damage being caused by lockdown.

ujjjjjjjjj

bucketybuck wrote: »

If this government has shown anything, it is that they don't do anything.

No plans, no ideas, no improvements, no suggestions, nothing. They have sat on their hands and buried their heads in the sand when even just a small amount of proactivity could have helped a lot of people.

Talking to their closest neighbour and developing some simple coping strategies wouldn't even be a massive challenge politically and they couldn't manage even that.

They are utterly useless.

Agree entirely.