When will it all end?

seansouth36

gozunda wrote: »

I see a hell of a lot of daft exaggeration that because a pandemic somehow the "lockdown" and "level 5" restrictions will go on forever.

But I take it - you mean the fact we are in the midst of a pandemic ie a global outbreak of a virulent disease - that has affected every country on the planet.

That no country has been entirely without restrictions. That in Ireland it has already been detailed that restrictions will be rolled back as the risk of rising case numbers and as a consequence presure on our health services decrease.

That we are only at the start of our vaccination programme and need to continue to observe restrictions for the short term at least .

That it's required for people to have a bit of basic cop on.

Other than all that? No.

A lot of posters on this thread are like teenagers sulking because they are not allowed out - comparing Ireland to some sort of police state, and claiming its worse here than everywhere else and that restrictions will go on forever. They claim not to see any link between case numbers falling and lockdown yet will spout vague numbers of "mental health" casualties that apparently is coming down to the line due to this. They reject any authority over them as inherently compromised yet appeal to authority if that authority happens to be saying what they want to hear. Rather pathetic at this stage.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Interesting suggestions from McConkey.

7. When people who have Covid-19 do not self-isolate after being advised and encouraged, then legal enforcement is needed.

It does seem on the positive side that this would stop perfectly healthy people seeking tests.

Why in gods name would "perfectly healthy people" seek tests????

Cymro wrote:

Local teams of outbreak management staff at village and town or parish area could visit households where outbreaks have occurred, to offer support, and provide pop-up testing in those areas. They could also investigate businesses where outbreaks have occurred, and provide education and encouragement for change to businesses where outbreaks are suspected.

Maybe we could provide them with brown shirts?

When did the brown shirts engage in infectious disease management?

But as you say "suggestions". It's an opinion piece and certainly somewhat less deranged than half the stuff on this thread tbf.

HansKroenke

gozunda wrote: »

No that's not explaining what was asked at all

You stated there were "exremists" who



Asked who these "extremists" were you linked to a YouTube video of a media interview with a student from UL called Niamh and the Minister of Higher Education - Simon Harris. That these two two people were not only "extremists" but also part of a "mob".

You know introduced an opinion based article by Professor Sam McConkey which again fails to explain how any of the above are "extremists" viz.



But :eek: here's some of those "frightening" and "extreme" 10 steps from your linked article. Realy truely terrifyingly frightening ...



...


:rolleyes:

Hysterical and you are making a glaring oversight by dismissing the examples of extremists and what they are saying. To you, not seeing what they are saying as extreme is troubling, this is where my issue is. The saying "evil prevails when good fails to act" rings true with allowing the likes of those media publications and those given a platform to spout their extreme views.

HansKroenke

seansouth36 wrote: »

A lot of posters on this thread are like teenagers sulking because they are not allowed out - comparing Ireland to some sort of police state, and claiming its worse here than everywhere else and that restrictions will go on forever. They claim not to see any link between case numbers falling and lockdown yet will spout vague numbers of "mental health" casualties that apparently is coming down to the line due to this. They reject any authority over them as inherently compromised yet appeal to authority if that authority happens to be saying what they want to hear. Rather pathetic at this stage.

You were doing so well until your mental health nonsense was posted.

Under the age of 45, the death rate per 100k of the population is three times higher for suicides than covid. To dismiss mental health makes you seem kinda scummy.

SheepsClothing

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting suggestions from McConkey.



It does seem on the positive side that this would stop perfectly healthy people seeking tests.



Maybe we could provide them with brown shirts?

In this thread you see the same people wildly oscillating between moaning about anti-lockdown protests being associated with the far right, to the next moment accusing scientists and public health experts of being Nazis.

SheepsClothing

HansKroenke wrote: »

You were doing so well until your mental health nonsense was posted.

Under the age of 45, the death rate per 100k of the population is three times higher for suicides than covid. To dismiss mental health makes you seem kind of ignorant.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest suicide has increased during covid?

Plumbthedepths

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest suicide has increased during covid?

It's very difficult to get any figures for Ireland at the moment as they usually realeased once a year but it was stopped last Summer.
A study from Japan carried by the BBC.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55837160

Silentcorner

seansouth36 wrote: »

A lot of posters on this thread are like teenagers sulking because they are not allowed out - comparing Ireland to some sort of police state, and claiming its worse here than everywhere else and that restrictions will go on forever. They claim not to see any link between case numbers falling and lockdown yet will spout vague numbers of "mental health" casualties that apparently is coming down to the line due to this. They reject any authority over them as inherently compromised yet appeal to authority if that authority happens to be saying what they want to hear. Rather pathetic at this stage.

How do explain the numbers declining but the obvious increase in people moving about in recent weeks?

People want to go back to work, to see their families, friends...get their lives back to some normality, be able to pay their bills like normal humans, the rest of Europe can achieve that faster than we can.

I just think there is a cohort of Irish people who are enjoying this abnormal time way too much! And haven't yet figured out they are about to be asked to pay for all this madness in the form of taxes or hugely inflated prices!!!

Samsonsmasher

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Totally agree with you - I don't think it's some mad conspiracy but just a bunch of bureaucrats who are out of control and drunk on self importance, loving the limelight and as they are surrounded now in echo chambers bouncing off each other all day......

The problem is it is dangerous - on the Irish Times the most read story is the Glynn scare story over stillbirths - yes some people will do the research and check into it but many including many expectant mothers and couples will just lap it up and get stressed and worried.

The media has clearly shown it just trots out the NPHET briefings without question and of course in a headline it becomes fact for many people - I guarantee tonight there are women who have some anxiety over this.

This is being caused by irresponsible behaviour from NPHET and there seems to be no one who is prepared to question there behaviour who has the authority to change it.

If you don't believe in this BS if you question the 120000 deaths predicted by McConkey last year if you break the 5km restriction question wearing masks question the shut down of the economy and society and if you highlight the costs nationally and individually you get shouted down as a baby killer now by the covid mob and their NPHET high priests..

gozunda

HansKroenke wrote: »

Hysterical and you are making a glaring oversight by dismissing the examples of extremists and what they are saying. To you, not seeing what they are saying as extreme is troubling, this is where my issue is. The saying "evil prevails when good fails to act" rings true with allowing the likes of those media publications and those given a platform to spout their extreme views.

Not at all. You are simply avoiding the question asked about the bizarre idea that people you disagree with such as Niamh the student from UL are somehow "extremists" viz

a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action.

No matter which way you look at it. The examples you've given certainty are not "extremists"

seansouth36

seansouth36 wrote: »

A lot of posters on this thread are like teenagers sulking because they are not allowed out - comparing Ireland to some sort of police state, and claiming its worse here than everywhere else and that restrictions will go on forever. They claim not to see any link between case numbers falling and lockdown yet will spout vague numbers of "mental health" casualties that apparently is coming down to the line due to this. They reject any authority over them as inherently compromised yet appeal to authority if that authority happens to be saying what they want to hear. Rather pathetic at this stage.

There's no evidence to suggest that restrictions will ever be lifted.

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

Then, in October, we'll have the ICU's packed. Guaranteed.

Based on what evidence ? Finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing? If the majority of people are vaccinated ( especially old and vulnerable) by October ICU’s won’t be packed.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

I see a hell of a lot of daft exaggeration that because a pandemic somehow the "lockdown" and "level 5" restrictions will go on forever.

But I take it - you mean the fact we are in the midst of a pandemic ie a global outbreak of a virulent disease - that has affected every country on the planet.

That no country has been entirely without restrictions. That in Ireland it has already been detailed that restrictions will be rolled back as the risk of rising case numbers and as a consequence presure on our health services decrease.

That we are only at the start of our vaccination programme and need to continue to observe restrictions for the short term at least .

That it's required for people to have a bit of basic cop on.

Other than all that? No.

No other country has forced its citizens to stay within 5km of their home.

Why is there no level 0 in the "living with covid" plan? Level 1 still has a number of draconian restrictions.

Irish Stones

Micky 32 wrote: »

Based on what evidence ? Finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing? If the majority of people are vaccinated ( especially old and vulnerable) by October ICU’s won’t be packed.

This is the magic formula. Which, at the moment, doesn't seem to look likely.
As of yesterday, the percentage of EU citizens who have received two doses is 2.68%, a little far from the "majority" needed within June/July, that are only 4 months ahead.

the kelt

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest suicide has increased during covid?

He didnt claim it did to be fair

El_Duderino 09

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's very difficult to get any figures for Ireland at the moment as they usually realeased once a year but it was stopped last Summer.
A study from Japan carried by the BBC.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55837160

If there isn't data in Ireland then where do al the claims that are made in this thread about suicides "skyrocketing" come from

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's no evidence to suggest that restrictions will ever be lifted.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Manwithtinfoilhat.jpg

Irish Stones

Deleted User wrote: »

No other country has forced its citizens to stay within 5km of their home.

You're wrong, during the first hard lockdown in Italy the limit was 200 metres from home. At the moment, in most infected areas, the limit is the town boundaries, which in small towns can be as little as a few hundreds meters, rarely higher than 2 km.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No other country has forced its citizens to stay within 5km of their home.

Why is there no level 0 in the "living with covid" plan? Level 1 still has a number of draconian restrictions.

Not this again.

The 5km restriction only applies to exercise. People are free to travel for essential purposes etc.

Don't know about "5km" specifically elsewhere - but countries like the UK went one better...

When you can leave home

You must not leave or be outside of your home except where you have a ‘reasonable excuse’. This is the law. The police can take action against you if you leave home without a ‘reasonable excuse’, and issue you with a fine (Fixed Penalty Notice).

You can be given a Fixed Penalty Notice of £200 for the first offence, doubling for further offences up to a maximum of £6,400.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home#when-you-can-leave-home

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Manwithtinfoilhat.jpg

End of that discussion.

I don't think there's any evidence. We'll leave it at that.

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

You're wrong, during the first hard lockdown in Italy the limit was 200 metres from home. At the moment, in most infected areas, the limit is the town boundaries, which in small towns can be as little as a few hundreds meters, rarely higher than 2 km.

Gosh, 200 metres. I didn't know that. Thanks.

Plumbthedepths

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If there isn't data in Ireland then where do al the claims that are made in this thread about suicides "skyrocketing" come from

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/gp-describes-terrible-problem-of-suicide-among-young-people-1.4426625
Prehaps from articles such as this ?

There are several others , one from last Summer citing consultants working in the field concerned by a worry up ward trend . I'm sure you can find the relevant articles if interested.

accensi0n

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No other country has forced its citizens to stay within 5km of their home.

Except for the countries that ordered their citizens to stay literally inside their home..?

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

This is the magic formula. Which, at the moment, doesn't seem to look likely.
As of yesterday, the percentage of EU citizens who have received two doses is 2.68%, a little far from the "majority" needed within June/July, that are only 4 months ahead.

I never said anything about June/July. The vaccine roll out will gather pace in the next month or so, we’ll be in a better place by October and there won’t be packed ICU’s in October full stop. That’s 8 months ahead. A lot is going to happen between now and then regarding vaccines.

accensi0n

accensi0n wrote: »

Except for the countries that ordered their citizens to stay literally inside their home..?

You're quite right. I should've written "continues to".

Do you know why there's no level 0 in the 'living with covid' plan?

drunkmonkey

Micky 32 wrote: »

I never said anything about June/July. The vaccine roll out will gather pace in the next month or so, we’ll be in a better place by October and there won’t be packed ICU’s in October full stop.

Why do you think we're not going to end up in a situation like winter, 2017, 2018, 2019 with hospital overcrowding, viruses running rampant, we've the worst record in Europe for hospital infections.
We've back loaded a host of illnesses, you can't just shut down most of the hospitals for 18mts and not expect a massive wave of more serious illness in people when they get back to full steam.

There's absolutely no way a lot of people will accept a return to normal with the hospitals. We might get Covid under control but they'll use restrictions to protect the hospitals again next winter (flu, mrsa etc), there is no indication they won't but plenty of indications they will.

Micky 32

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why do you think we're not going to end up in a situation like winter, 2017, 2018, 2019 with hospital overcrowding, viruses running rampant, we've the worst record in Europe for hospital infections.
We've back loaded a host of illnesses, you can't just shut down most of the hospitals for 18mts and not expect a massive wave of more serious illness in people when they get back to full steam.

There's absolutely no way a lot of people will accept a return to normal with the hospitals. We might get Covid under control but they'll use restrictions to protect the hospitals again next winter (flu, mrsa etc), there is no indication they won't but plenty of indications they will.

What has other viruses and illnesses got to do with my post regarding icu’s not being packed with Covid 19 in October when most of the people who’d end up in ICU will be vaccinated. I’m not interested in your hysterical views on anything else other than what i posted.

Anyway they won’t close the economy and shut places down because of our usual winters. Not going to happen.

Scotty #

HansKroenke wrote: »

Under the age of 45, the death rate per 100k of the population is three times higher for suicides than covid.

Three times? What are those rates? Death rates for U45's is practically zero so i would have thought it was way more than three times but you can share the figures.

HansKroenke wrote: »

To dismiss mental health makes you seem kinda scummy.

The other side of the coin is the same could be said for the thousands of people in the country with respiratory illness for which the removal of restrictions is a very serious worry. Mental health does not trump everything else.

drunkmonkey

Micky 32 wrote: »

What has other viruses and illnesses got to do with my post of icu’s not being packed with Covid 19 in October when most of the people who’d end up in ICU will be vaccinated. I’m not interested in your hysterical views on anything else other than i posted.

Anyway they won’t close the economy and shut places down because of our usual winters. Not going to happen.

Hysterical views I'm only repeating what NPHET have already warned about, restrictions are on the cards for next winter.
I'm not sure you noticed but the Government are not in control of the country, NPHET are and they have said they're not concerned with the economic effects of the guidelines as it's beyond their remit.

If you think Micheál Martin is the man to lead us successful out of this mess i've bad news for you.

El_Duderino 09

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/gp-describes-terrible-problem-of-suicide-among-young-people-1.4426625
Prehaps from articles such as this ?

There are several others , one from last Summer citing consultants working in the field concerned by a worry up ward trend . I'm sure you can find the relevant articles if interested.

That is interesting anecdotal evidence for an increase (no number included). And I would be inclined to take it seriously because of the gravity of the whole issue of suicide even though it's not any kind of conclusive evidence.

The post quoted below got 19 Thanks for criticising the coroner, RTE and NPHET for publicising the coroner's preliminary findings, but we're taking the anecdotal evidence of a doctor who has seen an unspecified increase in suicide in their area.

We're not treating claims according to the evidence, that much is for sure.

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

NPHET at it again tonight, stillbirths now.......

Note coroners yet to file their reports so it is just speculation and no increase in still births in the UK and US during the pandemic so this is just total and utter scaremongering.

Spread over the main stream media......this is just grossly irresponsible.

They are beyond a joke at this stage.