When will it all end?

drunkmonkey

aido79 wrote: »

And you're suggesting they could have got all of these things right with no restrictions?

They had restrictions and didn't get them right, some of those if done correctly would have resulted in way less restrictions, we're a year down the road and no better off, yes we have the emergency use vaccines and easy treatments on the way, our government can't be credited for any of that though.

aido79

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They had restrictions and didn't get them right, some of those if done correctly would have resulted in way less restrictions, we're a year down the road and no better off, yes we have the emergency use vaccines and easy treatments on the way, our government can't be credited for any of that though.

So because they didn't get some of the restrictions right and could have done better you think it's a good idea to get rid of all restrictions when cases numbers are starting to rise again?

drunkmonkey

gozunda wrote: »

Are restrictions necessary? Yes they are imho.

Only on sick people, we've been told what to do from the start and we just can't get the basics right after a year so we end up with restrictions on everyone. Complete failure by NPHET are the reason for ongoing restrictions, it's not the peoples fault, we did what they asked, gave them time to get their ducks in a row and they failed spectaculary.


“I've said this since the beginning; if you focus on cases and contacts and you focus on clusters, you focus on restricting the movement of people who are sick or their contacts.

“Then you don't have to restrict the movement of all of society.

Mike Ryan, World Health Organisation, repeatedly.

drunkmonkey

aido79 wrote: »

So because they didn't get some of the restrictions right and could have done better you think it's a good idea to get rid of all restrictions when cases numbers are starting to rise again?

I don't give two hoots about cases from a flawded testing regime. We need restrictions on the sick for a few more months until the cure arrives as the vaccine won't be the solution, my restrictions would be a lot more palatable and be evidence based. NPHET's solution is to ban everything, crazy plan with crazy supporters.

RGS

You cant make plans based on case numbers. Our testing criteria changes with the weather.
When we had high cases we decided not to test close contacts, which you would think would be essential to get a handle on where the outbreaks happened.

We then change the criteria when case numbers are falling and surprise surprise case numbers rise.

No plan should be based on case numbers, given the shifting sands over the past 12 months, but on hospitalisation and ICU numbers.

I cannot accept a team of highly paid people cant put a concise coherent plan together that the public can get behind.

the kelt

RGS wrote: »

You cant make plans based on case numbers. Our testing criteria changes with the weather.
When we had high cases we decided not to test close contacts, which you would think would be essential to get a handle on where the outbreaks happened.

We then change the criteria when case numbers are falling and surprise surprise case numbers rise.

No plan should be based on case numbers, given the shifting sands over the past 12 months, but on hospitalisation and ICU numbers.

I cannot accept a team of highly paid people cant put a concise coherent plan together that the public can get behind.

Well when ye have enough simpletons who don’t want such a plan and are happy to just carry on anyway why would ye bother making a plan.

I mean we had people arguing on here that they didn’t think it was right to even ask how many we had vaccinated in a week.

It’s misery addiction.

gozunda

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Only on sick people, we've been told what to do from the start and we just can't get the basics right after a year so we end up with restrictions on everyone. Complete failure by NPHET are the reason for ongoing restrictions, it's not the peoples fault, we did what they asked, gave them time to get their ducks in a row and they failed spectaculary.
“I've said this since the beginning; if you focus on cases and contacts and you focus on clusters, you focus on restricting the movement of people who are sick or their contacts.“Then you don't have to restrict the movement of all of society. Mike Ryan, World Health Organisation, repeatedly.

And where people are carriers but not 'sick' how does that model work?

Vaccinations are ongoing.

Could Vaccination be faster - yes it could. But we're going forward.

Btw the model you've outlined - has any county outside China been able to implement it?

Micky 32

gozunda wrote: »

as the vaccination rate increases - then restrictions will be rolled back.

Sums it up, in a nutshell really.

aido79

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't give two hoots about cases from a flawded testing regime. We need restrictions on the sick for a few more months until the cure arrives as the vaccine won't be the solution, my restrictions would be a lot more palatable and be evidence based. NPHET's solution is to ban everything, crazy plan with crazy supporters.

What restrictions would you place on the sick and elderly and what evidence would you base them on?
What cure are you talking about if the vaccine isn't the solution?

drunkmonkey

gozunda wrote: »

And where people are carriers but not 'sick' how does that model work?

Healthy people are no threat, even if you want to start on about the asymptomatic, people know at this stage not to lick their fingers and keep a safe distance from strangers indoors.
Personal responsibility for yourself should be the order of the day like it has been for millennia. Follow the basics, safe distance, wash your hands. Get on with your life.

I think some people are forgetting the fact that case numbers are irrelevant and it’s the hospital and ICU figures that should be paid most attention. Case numbers will rise and fall with each step we take to open the place up. That’s the risk we take. As long as hospitalisations and ICU numbers stay manageable, we should continue to ease restrictions. The reality is that the lack of sufficient investment in the health service is the real culprit here. However, as we vaccinate more of the vulnerable we should be able to take a calculated risk here.
We cannot continue this gravy train of borrowing and borrowing. Even the free money has to be repaid and the fact the government is betting on the savings glut flowing into the economy is not guarantee. People are out of the habit of spending and that’s not something that will change easily, not to mention the amount of people who will not be going back to work once the restrictions are eased totally.
There are bigger problems coming our way too. The lowest stock of housing since 2006 and construction sites are closed? Absolute madness.
I, for one, find it absolutely unacceptable that NPHET have absolutely no alternative plan or advice based on their expertise, despite the fact their advice appears to have stalled. They talk about how they are concerned that fatigue is setting in. 6 months, give or take 3 weeks, of the same thing with now plateauing results and no promise of escape, they can hardly be surprised.

drunkmonkey

aido79 wrote: »

What restrictions would you place on the sick and elderly and what evidence would you base them on?
What cure are you talking about if the vaccine isn't the solution?

Sick people are ones with symptoms. I'm talking about the ones coming form Merck, Eli Lilly, AstraZeneca.
We've an obsession with Vaccines in this country, not necessary when you have a highly effective treatment. We're not getting to 80% of adults vaccinated and we're certainly not going to keep that figure up if the boosters are needed as expected.

Charles Babbage

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Healthy people are no threat, even if you want to start on about the asymptomatic, people know at this stage not to lick their fingers and keep a safe distance from strangers indoors.
Personal responsibility for yourself should be the order of the day like it has been for millennia. Follow the basics, safe distance, wash your hands. Get on with your life.

Giving someone a disease makes you a threat. Why should others have to change their behaviour because you are a threat?

aido79

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Sick people are ones with symptoms. I'm talking about the ones coming form Merck, Eli Lilly, AstraZeneca.
We've an obsession with Vaccines in this country, not necessary when you have a highly effective treatment. We're not getting to 80% of adults vaccinated and we're certainly not going to keep that figure up if the boosters are needed as expected.

So the sick people who have been incubating and spreading the disease before they show symptoms are placed under restrictions? And then when the people they have infected become symptomatic they are isolated after they too have spread it to God only knows how many people? Have you not taken any notice of what has been learned about covid in the past year?

You are quick to criticise the government's handling of this but are too short sighted to see the faults of your own nonsense plan.

What highly effective(proven) treatments do you suggest they use?

drunkmonkey

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Giving someone a disease makes you a threat. Why should others have to change their behaviour because you are a threat?

Can't give you what I don't have

Your going to have to run the gauntlet with healthy people at some stage, not sure how your going to cope seen as you've bought into the idea it's your job to protect other people by self identifying as infectious.

drunkmonkey

aido79 wrote: »

So the sick people who have been incubating and spreading the disease before they show symptoms are placed under restrictions? And then when the people they have infected become symptomatic they are isolated after they too have spread it to God only knows how many people? Have you not taken any notice of what has been learned about covid in the past year?

You are quick to criticise the government's handling of this but are too short sighted to see the faults of your own nonsense plan.

What highly effective(proven) treatments do you suggest they use?

Ok I get it you support NPHET and the Government in their handling of this. I'm not that far gone yet sorry, maybe a few more months of this and they'll break me too.

Do you not get how an effective contact tracing system helps identify the people likely to spread it. Why your giving them a free pass for failure on this I can't fathom, has to be the stockholm.

The treatments are all going through trials at the moment, one even stops you being infectious after 24hrs. You'll be taking a course of antiviral tablets to battle this soon.

aido79

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Ok I get it you support NPHET and the Government in their handling of this. I'm not that far gone yet sorry, maybe a few more months of this and they'll break me too.

Do you not get how an effective contact tracing system helps identify the people likely to spread it. Why your giving them a free pass for failure on this I can't fathom, has to be the stockholm.

The treatments are all going through trials at the moment, one even stops you being infectious after 24hrs. You'll be taking a course of antiviral tablets to battle this soon.

Contract tracing will only work in a lockdown situation unless you want to bring in a system where you literally have to sign into every where you go. Otherwise the number of contacts would be enormous.

Believe me I'm as fed up as anyone with restrictions. I returned to Ireland a few months before this all started from a place where they have been largely unaffected by covid and my plans were turned upside down by covid.
I definitely think this whole thing could have been handled better but what you are coming out with shows a complete lack of understanding of how this virus spreads and how it can and can't be controlled.
Even the treatment you are suggesting by your own admission is still going through trials.

I have always thought that rapid testing and effective treatment is the best solution to this rather than a vaccine but rapid testing isn't reliable and the treatment isn't available at present whereas the vaccine has been proven to be effective.

AdamD

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lockdowns-werent-worth-it-11615485413?mod=e2tw

El_Duderino 09

mightyreds wrote: »

You think "I don't know" will cut it, they are on massive salary's they have a full years data, "I don't know" doesn't cut it.

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain lie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

El_Duderino 09

Here’s a discussion on the impact of obesity on covid deaths.

The salient points are that obesity is certainly a factor in covid deaths but age and number of cases are the biggest determinants of death. If nobody in the world were obese there would have been about 7% fewer deaths.

It’s certainly significant even if not the biggest factor.

Edit: link
https://overcast.fm/+IPMbumHMQ

drunkmonkey

aido79 wrote: »

I have always thought that rapid testing and effective treatment is the best solution to this rather than a vaccine but rapid testing isn't reliable and the treatment isn't available at present whereas the vaccine has been proven to be effective.

The treatments are available they've been granted under emergency use just not in Europe, America has it's orders in.
The vaccines are still in trial as well even the ones we are using. No long term study on the effects can even be started yet.
I'd like the media to mention something besides vaccines, we had Leo mention the Merck pill in January and not a peep since, our media didn't even pick up on it and completely ignored the Asthma inhaler from AstraZeneca, it's infuriating at this stage to see such blissful ignorance. What health advice have NPHET provided besides stay at home and don't drink as we all know the virus loves it.
I don't know any county that has had an 80% vaccine uptake and to hear that normal isn't anywhere in sight until we hit that figure is crazy talk, it can't be achieved.
What we think now will all be wrong in 6mts time..

mightyreds

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain pie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

No I want them to analyse the data they have, provide some risk management scenarios.
They have a years worth of infection data and buckets of data coming from israel, the uk and the US on the vaccine and the best they have is a worry meter.
If I was asked in work to provide some timelines on an upcoming project do you think hiding and saying I don't know would suffice.

Rodin

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here’s a discussion on the impact of obesity on covid deaths.

The salient points are that obesity is certainly a factor in covid deaths but age and number of cases are the biggest determinants of death. If nobody in the world were obese there would have been about 7% fewer deaths.

It’s certainly significant even if not the biggest factor.

Obesity isn't honestly talked about half enough.
It needs tackled.

drunkmonkey

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here’s a discussion on the impact of obesity on covid deaths.

The salient points are that obesity is certainly a factor in covid deaths but age and number of cases are the biggest determinants of death. If nobody in the world were obese there would have been about 7% fewer deaths.

It’s certainly significant even if not the biggest factor.

Wasn't it 70% of hospital admissions were obese according to the CDC.
We're going to lose more people to heart disease and diabetes as a result of these lockdowns than we could have ever saved from Covid.
Staying at home is not a plan, get outside, exercise, scrap the county and 5km limit immediately it's stupid where outdoor activities are concerned.

Micky 32

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain pie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

A good Saturday afternoon waffle. You seem to really have a bee in your bonnet regarding people who think and hope restrictions end. Does it upset you because that view threathens your future world of restrictions or incase you’re proved wrong? Why do you keep repeating the same posts over and over and over and over? :rolleyes:

Just incase your post reffers to me i’ll explain something to you. I’m well aware and so are a lot of people of the uncertainties. Sure you might get your restrictions next winter, of course that’s possible who knows you might be right and then you can carry on with your smugness if you’re right.

However going by all the recent data, these vaccines are amazing ( and will only get better)and in my opinion i don’t think we’ll have restrictions come next winter, i think it’s unlikely ( or at least to the point it affecting normality too much). The end is coming. It’s just an opinion of course it and doesn’t mean i’m right

drunkmonkey

Rodin wrote: »

Obesity isn't honestly talked about half enough.
It needs tackled.

We can't because that's fat shaming, you could end up like Mr Potato Head for even mentioning it.

Rodin

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We can't because that's fat shaming, you could end up like Mr Potato Head for even mentioning it.

He's just Potato head now...sorry..

They are just potato head now.

RGS

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain pie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

So we pay 15 cabinet ministers, at least 15 advisors, we appointed 40 members to NPHET at a cost of roughly 9 million euro and a year later they cant analyze data and create a plan out of this. This is not acceptable to me or a number of other posters. If you think is an acceptable situation then I think we as a country are in real trouble.

JDxtra

Listening to the radio there in the background, and it's incredible just how many adverts are state funded - either directly for Covid awareness or for some Government agency.

The state must be keeping commercial broadcasters and RTE afloat. You'd wonder if this fact is influencing their ability to be impartial and restricting them from asking some hard questions.

Anyways, time to flick on Spotify...

Scotty #

Lundstram wrote: »

Not at all. They got a good deal at the end of last year. They'll be fine.

They have a government who listen to their people. Here in Ireland, if a referendum doesn't go as planned, we do it again.

The UK has put the EU to shame.

Exports to EU down 40% in January alone!!! You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Brexit has been good for the UK.