When will it all end?

ujjjjjjjjj

xhomelezz wrote: »

And kids can still spread it, as anyone else...end of story.

Hysteria is hysteria. End of story.

ujjjjjjjjj

gozunda wrote: »

I don't believe that's true. Those observing restrictions are the not part of the issue.

Its a small minority who didn't believe in restrictions at the start and still don't. But that's not blaming the same minority. Its simply an observation that there always be some who believe they know better than everyone one else or that they just don't give a monkeys.

Or perhaps they have done a bit of their own research, measured the risk and decided that it wasn't worth worrying about ?

gozunda

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Or perhaps they have done a bit of their own research, measured the risk and decided that it wasn't worth worrying about ?

So Option B then

gozunda wrote:

I don't believe that's true. Those observing restrictions are the not part of the issue.

Its a small minority who didn't believe in restrictions at the start and still don't. But that's not blaming the same minority. Its simply an observation that there always be some who believe they know better than everyone one else or that they just don't give a monkeys.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

So Option B then

This reminds me of the mentality of some of our elder generations. The type who thought inter county travel was reckless on December 17th but perfectly safe on December 18 because the man on the TV said so.

Some of us are capable of thinking and analysing risk for ourselves.

HansKroenke

gozunda wrote: »

I don't believe that's true. Those observing restrictions are the not part of the issue.

Its a small minority who didn't believe in restrictions at the start and still don't. But that's not blaming the same minority. Its simply an observation that there always be some who believe they know better than everyone one else or that they just don't give a monkeys.

It's absolutely not. Healthcare workers and slaughterhouse outbreaks were abetted by the authorities in spreading covid while everyone else was knuckling down and observing the restrictions. Considering how many deaths came from nursing homes, the biggest contributor to the deaths figure is the spread of covid in care/nursing homes and hospitals which would have been from healthcare workers spreading the virus. This isn't to blame the people but to make an observation.

the kelt

RGS wrote: »

Now that's a simple idea. However we have been told by one poster we cant have a plan like that because if the metrics weren't met the government would look like idiots.

More than just one unfortunately.

This is the thing, leaders in other countries wouldn’t get away with it. They demand more from their leaders, some actual leadership and plans. Here in the eyes of many to even ask for clarity is akin to heresy.

“Mustn’t question the man with power”

You see it in the constant defence of everything, literally everything. There are some of course who have an issue with everything, they’re wrong also yet those who constantly defend everything can’t even see how wrong they are themselves

It stood out for me when we started vaccinating, the amount of people many on this thread and others who didn’t feel it necessary or right that we should have updates in regards to vaccination numbers and how that was going, daily deaths and case numbers, pile that on but good news in regards to vaccinations “not appropriate “ “waste of valuable time” of course because that’s a number people in power could be held accountable for.

They needn’t have worried.

ujjjjjjjjj

gozunda wrote: »

So Option B then

Well it's not exactly rocket science at this stage to read through primary data sources and realise that the vast majority of our population is at little or no risk from this virus or to look at history and wonder why we have never reacted like this before or to wonder even when we have vaccines which massively mitigate this already low risk is anyone even considering any restrictions post vaccine roleout to the section of our population actually at any significant risk from this virus.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This reminds me of the mentality of some of our elder generations. The type who thought inter county travel was reckless on December 17th but perfectly safe on December 18 because the man on the TV said so.

Some of us are capable of thinking and analysing risk for ourselves.

Well some THINK they are capable and know best. That is why everyone has to endure restrictions to make up for the "independent" thinkers.

Same way drink driving is illegal, most know naturally not to do it but some decide they know better after analysing risk for themselves.

GazzaL

pjohnson wrote: »

Well some THINK they are capable and know best. That is why everyone has to endure restrictions to make up for the "independent" thinkers.

Same way drink driving is illegal, most know naturally not to do it but some decide they know better after analysing risk for themselves.

Most people know it's not feasible to stop people from seeing their family and friends for over a year. Most people know it's not feasible to expect all businesses to survive being forced to shut for over a year. Some think they know better and €350 a week will cure all ills - those people are wrong.

GazzaL

the kelt wrote: »

More than just one unfortunately.

This is the thing, leaders in other countries wouldn’t get away with it. They demand more from their leaders, some actual leadership and plans. Here in the eyes of many to even ask for clarity is akin to heresy.

“Mustn’t question the man with power”

You see it in the constant defence of everything, literally everything. There are some of course who have an issue with everything, they’re wrong also yet those who constantly defend everything can’t even see how wrong they are themselves

It stood out for me when we started vaccinating, the amount of people many on this thread and others who didn’t feel it necessary or right that we should have updates in regards to vaccination numbers and how that was going, daily deaths and case numbers, pile that on but good news in regards to vaccinations “not appropriate “ “waste of valuable time” of course because that’s a number people in power could be held accountable for.

They needn’t have worried.

Even worse were the bare-faced liars amongst the defenders of all. They had the neck to claim we were getting daily vaccination numbers when we were getting nothing of the sort.

ujjjjjjjjj

pjohnson wrote: »

Well some THINK they are capable and know best. That is why everyone has to endure restrictions to make up for the "independent" thinkers.

Same way drink driving is illegal, most know naturally not to do it but some decide they know better after analysing risk for themselves.

No I know I can read and analyse data and evaluate risk myself. Boils down to ultimately whether you trust your own judgment and risk analysis over Tony Holohan etc. Personally I do and a year into this have seen nothing to think I didn't make the right call. Is there a risk yes, does it justify the damage being caused by the restrictions, no in my opinion. Have firmly believed since day one all that was needed was health advice to the higher risk groups.

If you have evaluated the risk differently and think the restrictions are necessary or would prefer to defer to Tony Holohan that's fine. Just not what I have done.

the kelt

pjohnson wrote: »

Well some THINK they are capable and know best. That is why everyone has to endure restrictions to make up for the "independent" thinkers.

Same way drink driving is illegal, most know naturally not to do it but some decide they know better after analysing risk for themselves.

Thats really not the case though!

The fact you and others seem to think we are only under restrictions because not everybody obeyed restrictions is kinda worrying to be honest.

LessOutragePlz

It's really hilarious how this blaming and finger pointing has been going on since the beginning of this whole thing. We're just going round and round in circles.

When we all know whose to blame for this mess and that is the Government.

What do people expect people to do when they've given us no clear indication of when the majority of the restrictions will be lifted?.

Of course people are going to go visit family they haven't seen in months or head out for a for a walk outside their 5km.

To suggest otherwise is naive and shows how out of touch with reality some people on here really are.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Well some THINK they are capable and know best. That is why everyone has to endure restrictions to make up for the "independent" thinkers.

Same way drink driving is illegal, most know naturally not to do it but some decide they know better after analysing risk for themselves.

And some think that one otherwise-isolating household meeting another otherwise-isolating household poses a risk, and a sip of champagne on New Years' eve should keep a driver away from a car for 12 hours.

If we ran society according to the risk tolerance of those people we'd never do anything.

The only possible vector of transmission on my restriction-breaking trips, FYI, would be a garda checkpoint. So down with that sort of thing. Too risky.

Scotty #

Deleted User wrote: »

This reminds me of the mentality of some of our elder generations. The type who thought inter county travel was reckless on December 17th but perfectly safe on December 18 because the man on the TV said so.

Some of us are capable of thinking and analysing risk for ourselves.

Did you just claim you're smart enough to analyse your own safety in a global pandemic in the sentence after you referred to NPHET as yer man on the telly? :D:D

Scotty #

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

No I know I can read and analyse data and evaluate risk myself.

Jaysus, we're all virologists and immunologists this morning.

ELM327

Time to open up. Simples.

Scotty #

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Well it's not exactly rocket science...

Did you not get the memo?? That phrase means you don't know what you are talking about... apparently.

Sharpyshoot

ELM327 wrote: »

Time to open up. Simples.

Nphet says no.

Scotty #

the kelt wrote: »

The fact you and others seem to think we are only under restrictions because not everybody obeyed restrictions is kinda worrying to be honest.

You don't think that if EVERYONE who could be working from home actually was, if people didn't actually mix households, have huge funerals, if people didn't visit shebeens, gyms, their barbers and hair dressers, go to Spain, etc, etc etc, that the numbers wouldn't be any lower than they are today? Maybe even low enough that we could lose some of the restrictions? Is that genuinely hand on heart what you believe?

ujjjjjjjjj

Scotty # wrote: »

Jaysus, we're all virologists and immunologists this morning.

No just someone who trusts their own analytical skills and intelligence.

pjohnson

the kelt wrote: »

Thats really not the case though!

The fact you and others seem to think we are only under restrictions because not everybody obeyed restrictions is kinda worrying to be honest.

Not as worry as some still thinking covid is just a flu and thinking that the analysis they did justifies and supercedes any and all experts.

ujjjjjjjjj

Scotty # wrote: »

Did you not get the memo?? That phrase means you don't know what you are talking about... apparently.

:) But the reality is it isn't exactly that tricky to read data about the actual risk of this virus. I certainly have no issue backing myself to do this and with the damage being done by lockdown restrictions to the many the protection to the few being afforded by lockdown just isn't worth it in my opinion.

spaceHopper

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

It's really hilarious how this blaming and finger pointing has been going on since the beginning of this whole thing. We're just going round and round in circles.

When we all know whose to blame for this mess and that is the Government.

What do people expect people to do when they've given us no clear indication of when the majority of the restrictions will be lifted?.

Of course people are going to go visit family they haven't seen in months or head out for a for a walk outside their 5km.

To suggest otherwise is naive and shows how out of touch with reality some people on here really are.

Roads were very busy yesterday with everybody visiting their Mammy. Expect a spike to follow. It's gone on to long and we all need a break from it. The shortages in vaccine is the biggest challenge if we could only get the older and weaker vaccinated. Then open up.

the kelt

Scotty # wrote: »

You don't think that if EVERYONE who could be working from home actually was, if people didn't actually mix households, have huge funerals, if people didn't visit shebeens, gyms, their barbers and hair dressers, go to Spain, etc, etc etc, that the numbers wouldn't be any lower than they are today? Maybe even low enough that we could lose some of the restrictions? Is that genuinely hand on heart what you believe?

The fact you are asking that question speaks volumes.

I mean the actual simplicity in the first place of believing we could be in a situation where everyone completly follows every single rule to the letter is kinda worrying.

Every single government in the entire world realises you cant get total buy in for every single rule "its called human nature" They dont expect there to be because only an idiot would!

Did you genuinely hand on heart expect every single person in the country to follow restrictions to the letter of the law???

If so have you ever emm, i dont know, met other human beings?

Scotty #

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

:) But the reality is it isn't exactly that tricky to read data about the actual risk of this virus. I certainly have no issue backing myself to do this and with the damage being done by lockdown restrictions to the many the protection to the few being afforded by lockdown just isn't worth it in my opinion.

You and I might be smart enough but can you imagine the mess if you let everyone decide for themselves?? It'd be like removing all speed limited from the roads and letting people decide their own limits.

Scotty #

Scotty # wrote: »

You don't think that if EVERYONE who could be working from home actually was, if people didn't actually mix households, have huge funerals, if people didn't visit shebeens, gyms, their barbers and hair dressers, go to Spain, etc, etc etc, that the numbers wouldn't be any lower than they are today? Maybe even low enough that we could lose some of the restrictions? Is that genuinely hand on heart what you believe?

Do you not think there's a disconnect here? If we had lower social activity we could reduce restrictions to allow more social activity?

Scotty #

the kelt wrote: »

Did you genuinely hand on heart expect every single person in the country to follow restrictions to the letter of the law???

No. Nor did I claim it would ever happen. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

Scotty #

AdamD wrote: »

Do you not think there's a disconnect here? If we had lower social activity we could reduce restrictions to allow more social activity?

lol, yea, good point.

I guess that's why we'll keep yo-yoing in and out of levels.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Not as worry as some still thinking covid is just a flu and thinking that the analysis they did justifies and supercedes any and all experts.

Is that as worrying as when us dullards were wearing masks early last year while "any and all experts" were saying not to, or different?