When will it all end?

Charles Babbage

AlekSmart wrote: »

"We" needed to eliminate a lot more than Covid,since back in 2009, the HSE itself outlined it's dreadful position in ICU terms.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/clinical-strategy-and-programmes/towards-excellence-in-critical-care-report.pdf

Those are but two,of a skipload of recommendations,but they represent two which could well have allowed Ireland to have had a far better response from Day 1 of this Pandemic.

My point is that "We" had 12 YEARS to take some heed of the Report's recommendations did'nt "WE" ?

We've run our health service in a self indulgent way, you only have to see the changes that became possible in recent months after years of procrastination. We need to learn from this in the longterm, but in the short term there isn't much to be done except control Covid.

GT89

Charles Babbage wrote: »

We've run our health service in a self indulgent way, you only have to see the changes that became possible in recent months after years of procrastination. We need to learn from this in the longterm, but in the short term there isn't much to be done except control Covid.

So a year is short term now? Let me remind you this bullsh1t originally started with two weeks to flatten the curve and has now gone on a year.

Kermit.de.frog

GT89 wrote: »

So a year is short term now? Let me remind you this bullsh1t originally started with two weeks to flatten the curve and has now gone on a year.

I'm blue in the face hearing this.

I can not understand how people did not realise this time last year how long-term, serious and society changing this was going to be (granted, the politicians didn't help with ludicrously rosy predictions).

This problem (or rather the initial problem - the disease - and it's proxy problems) was always going to be measured in years, not weeks. That was absurd.

Even if the last world wide serious pandemic was 100 years a go I still can't understand the lack of awareness of what this was going to entail.

This was always going to lead to multiple world wide crisis - the first was disease contagion, the second economic, the third most likely a level of social unrest and the fourth would be geopolitical. We are still in the first.

The fallout from this hasn't even started in my opinion.

What's most important is getting vaccines out as quickly as possible in the hope that cuts off severe cases of this disease, prevents hospitalisations and can allow society open up.

There is a much bigger issue here and that is that this is never allowed unfold like this again.

It's too damaging, it's too dangerous and we can only hope the world learns from this.

beauf

GT89 wrote: »

Explain Florida so. No lockdown in Florida but a very similar amount of cases and deaths to locked down California.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/despite-their-differing-approaches-california-and-florida-have-experienced-almost-identical-outcomes-in-covid-19-case-rates-01615659826

Florida is an outlier it's the best of the no lockdown States and California is one of the worst of lockdown down States.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-do-california-and-florida-have-similar-covid-19-case-rates-the-answer-is-complicated

Generally outliers are a high risk strategy and least likely to have the best outcome.

Charles Babbage

GT89 wrote: »

So a year is short term now? Let me remind you this bullsh1t originally started with two weeks to flatten the curve and has now gone on a year.

Of course it is the short term. You cannot train a doctor or ICU nurse in one year.
Ranting about it and calling it bull**** on boards.ie does not change this, it merely makes you look silly.

kaymin

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course it is the short term. You cannot train a doctor or ICU nurse in one year.
Ranting about it and calling it bull**** on boards.ie does not change this, it merely makes you look silly.

A nurse can be trained up to be an ICU nurse in 2 weeks.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Hospitals train nursing staff to work in ICU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-54263696

completedit

Nobody actually cares about the virus anymore. I'm in an area which would have been quite compliant throughout the last year but since February things feel much more like normal; neighbours mingling, calling over to one another, children playing together, etc.
Honestly, NPHET need to change their approach at this stage - Not even so much their approach but the way they communicate. Their profound and solemn soundbites seemed to have worked when Covid was a new phenomenon however, at this point, people have become comfortable to a degree with the number of deaths. There just simply isn't enough excess deaths to justify any sort of panic for the everyday person. It just how it is - Humans are adaptable and will respond to situations and act accordingly. It's like the tribes in the Amazon who kill their frail and sick elderly when they begin to impinge upon the tribe's survival. We hear that and cannot believe the humanity but for them it's a matter of life and death. They can't afford someone being a burden on them. In a modern society, we have much more supports and that's a good thing but it only gives us more time, inside we are the same as those Indigenous Amazonian tribes. People have to think of themselves, their children, paying a mortgage, rent etc. Empathy only extends so far and for so long. Having skin in the game changes everything.

Wanderer78

^^^^maybe get out for a walk today, lockdown seems to be causing you to over think things!

namloc1980

Wanderer78 wrote: »

^^^^maybe get out for a walk today, lockdown seems to be causing you to over think things!

Why is it that when someone dares to post even the most slightly contrarian opinion to the official government narrative, someone immediately comes along with a "witty" comment to try to downplay/disregard any opposing opinions? It's become all too predicable recently.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm blue in the face hearing this.

I can not understand how people did not realise this time last year how long-term, serious and society changing this was going to be (granted, the politicians didn't help with ludicrously rosy predictions).

This problem (or rather the initial problem - the disease - and it's proxy problems) was always going to be measured in years, not weeks. That was absurd.

Even if the last world wide serious pandemic was 100 years a go I still can't understand the lack of awareness of what this was going to entail.

This was always going to lead to multiple world wide crisis - the first was disease contagion, the second economic, the third most likely a level of social unrest and the fourth would be geopolitical. We are still in the first.

The fallout from this hasn't even started in my opinion.

What's most important is getting vaccines out as quickly as possible in the hope that cuts off severe cases of this disease, prevents hospitalisations and can allow society open up.

There is a much bigger issue here and that is that this is never allowed unfold like this again.

It's too damaging, it's too dangerous and we can only hope the world learns from this.

You’re very very wrong there.

Everyone knew that Covid would be with us for years once it got out of China.

We needed to put plans in place to live with Covid. But our living with Covid plan contained no actual living. Just endless draconian lockdowns with no scientific proof that they are helping. No cost/benefit analysis done etc All while borrowing billions to keep the lights on.

You think people were calling for an end to restrictions last May if they thought the pandemic would only last a few months?

Most of the crisis that you mention will be a result of our response, not Covid.

pjohnson

Another "protest" yesterday = 11 arrests.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Another "protest" yesterday = 11 arrests.

You have a strange obsession with protests.

Most Irish people won’t protest, no matter how unhappy they are.

But it’s very clear to see that people don’t care about this nonsense anymore. Much more traffic out there, much busier in general.

That’s the biggest protest you’ll see.

lee_baby_simms

pjohnson wrote: »

Another "protest" yesterday = 11 arrests.

I suppose “protesters” is a broad term isn’t it?

There’s the many who believe that the 5k should be scrapped, click and collect resumed, hospitality opened with restrictions etc...

Then theres the few who believe that Covid is a Chinese takeover depopulation conspiracy.

The now common technique of lumping the many in with the few is a hugely effective way of discrediting any kind of opposition and shutting down debate.

Unfortunately without nuance or critical thinking we’re stuck in this limbo indefinitely.

Wanderer78

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why is it that when someone dares to post even the most slightly contrarian opinion to the official government narrative, someone immediately comes along with a "witty" comment to try to downplay/disregard any opposing opinions? It's become all too predicable recently.

oh dont worry, im a contrary cnut myself, but come on now! theres very little the government can truly do to control this virus, and people have just had enough of restrictions, and understandable so

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You have a strange obsession with protests.

Most Irish people won’t protest, no matter how unhappy they are.

But it’s very clear to see that people don’t care about this nonsense anymore. Much more traffic out there, much busier in general.

That’s the biggest protest you’ll see.

These protests are supposedly organised and attended by educated respectable people and represent the "silent majority". Every week the "movement" keeps embarrasing itself and revealing what the attendees and organisers actually are.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You have a strange obsession with protests.

Most Irish people won’t protest, no matter how unhappy they are.

But it’s very clear to see that people don’t care about this nonsense anymore. Much more traffic out there, much busier in general.

That’s the biggest protest you’ll see.

+100%.

People won't protest even if they wanted to as they will be called right ring, anti vax, Gemma O Doherty fans. Our right to say how we feel has very recently been demonized, you either believe in Covid restrictions to the death or you're an anti vax scumbag....... there is no middle ground (which most of us fall into!!).

So the way most people will protest is to go wherever they like, break this 5km rule as it makes no sense and it the thing that is causing most frustration. We have given a year of our lives to "rules" Most of us have not got sick or died. Most of us have done our utmost to protect those we love. Most of us are responsible adults.

We cannot open the shops, the bars, the restaurants. But we can break the 5km rule and most people are doing just that. Its a quiet and peaceful protest.

Multipass

[Deleted User] wrote: »

+100%.

People won't protest even if they wanted to as they will be called right ring, anti vax, Gemma O Doherty fans. Our right to say how we feel has very recently been demonized, you either believe in Covid restrictions to the death or you're an anti vax scumbag....... there is no middle ground (which most of us fall into!!).

So the way most people will protest is to go wherever they like, break this 5km rule as it makes no sense and it the thing that is causing most frustration. We have given a year of our lives to "rules" Most of us have not got sick or died. Most of us have done our utmost to protect those we love. Most of us are responsible adults.

We cannot open the shops, the bars, the restaurants. But we can break the 5km rule and most people are doing just that. Its a quiet and peaceful protest.

Agreed, the government seeing the movement data is the biggest protest. I’m living my life as normal again now, apart from everything being shut and slapping on the nylon mask that lives in my car door so I can go into a shop.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

+100%.

People won't protest even if they wanted to as they will be called right ring, anti vax, Gemma O Doherty fans. Our right to say how we feel has very recently been demonized, you either believe in Covid restrictions to the death or you're an anti vax scumbag.......

You forgot anti-facemask, catholics, chemtrails, 5g, Qanon and homophobes.

lee_baby_simms

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You forgot anti-facemask, catholics, chemtrails, 5g, Qanon and homophobes.

Racists too. May as well lob that one in while we’re at it.

Jim_Hodge

Diamondhands wrote: »

Who here thinks keeping everything locked down until we're all vaccinated is a reasonable idea? I for one think the Government has done an exceptional job in preparing to live with the virus throughout the last 12 months.

And if people don't like parts of it they can just ignore it?
As you said yourself

why are you letting arbitrary rules with no logical rationale dictate who you can and can't see?

You can't have it both ways.

drunkmonkey

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Racists too. May as well lob that one in while we’re at it.

Nearly forgot about the flat-earthers, I hope we haven't left anyone out.

lee_baby_simms

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nearly forgot about the flat-earthers, I hope we haven't left anyone out.

That’s enough tar and feathers for the moment.

We may need some more in future if the public even think about showing their discontent.

Samsonsmasher

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-masks-not-permitted-in-oral-exams-to-ensure-clear-communication-1.4514957?mode=amp

For some reason masks will not be permitted in Irish orals after being mandatory for months - Kids have been sent home from school not wearing them etc.

If you are to believe the mask brigade who wear masks everywhere they go kids will be risking death.

This is for the sake of a dead language the vast majority will not be able to speak or understand when they the school gates for the last time or when they ultimately emigrate because the economy has collapsed again and they need to move abroad.

The fact that parents are panicked means we won't be getting out of this fiasco for a long time..

Van.Bosch

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-masks-not-permitted-in-oral-exams-to-ensure-clear-communication-1.4514957?mode=amp

For some reason masks will not be permitted in Irish orals after being mandatory for months - Kids have been sent home from school not wearing them etc.

If you are to believe the mask brigade who wear masks everywhere they go kids will be risking death.

This is for the sake of a dead language the vast majority will not be able to speak or understand when they the school gates for the last time or when they ultimately emigrate because the economy has collapsed again and they need to move abroad.

The fact that parents are panicked means we won't be getting out of this fiasco for a long time..

This being for a dead language? There are French, Spanish orals too.

beauf

Funny how the lockdown rules people are ignoring don't work that well... Maybe there's a connection.

Charles Babbage

kaymin wrote: »

A nurse can be trained up to be an ICU nurse in 2 weeks.

BBC News - Coronavirus: Hospitals train nursing staff to work in ICU
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-54263696

This converts a trained nurse to an ICU nurse, it does not increase the overall capacity of the health service, it merely moves it around.

Plumbthedepths

Seems to be a level of dissent building in government...https://extra.ie/2021/03/21/must-see/taoiseach-is-out-of-touch-say-ministers-as-new-poll-reveals-increasing-number-turning-against-lockdown

Deusexmachina

beauf wrote: »

Funny how the lockdown rules people are ignoring don't work that well... Maybe there's a connection.

Yes, they don't work that well because some people are ignoring them. So, what's the answer?

1. More of the same (doesn't work, as we have witnessed)
2. Coercion through police enforcement / heavier penalties? (won't work - police can't be everywhere and we will eventually reach a state vs the people situation)
3. More transparency, better communications, NPHET reduced in size and authority, better planning with clear milestones, less passivity about vaccination sourcing, no more patronising and fear mongering, a more balanced and fair approach to restrictions, some positivity and energy.....

beauf

The stats suggest they do work.

It's only people who want to ignore the rules that claim they don't work.

Plumbthedepths

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Yes, they don't work that well because some people are ignoring them. So, what's the answer?

1. More of the same (doesn't work, as we have witnessed)
2. Coercion through police enforcement / heavier penalties? (won't work - police can't be everywhere and we will eventually reach a state vs the people situation)
3. More transparency, better communications, NPHET reduced in size and authority, better planning with clear milestones, less passivity about vaccination sourcing, no more patronising and fear mongering, a more balanced and fair approach to restrictions, some positivity and energy.....

Maybe we all should, according to Dr Glynn just do a little bit more ? Not sure after nearly a year of restrictions what that little bit consists of though