When will it all end?

El_Duderino 09

Responder XY wrote: »

Fair enough, largely agree with this. For me restrictions which must go soon are the ones that prevent me from seeing friends and family in social settings. I expect to be able to return to an office at some point too. They should also allow biger gatherings outdoors (summer festivals, sport events)

School closures should end immediately! Shocking cost to children isn't defendable to me. Universities close behind!

I'm ok if indoor places where we meet have lower max capacity than it used too. I don't mind wearing a mask. I don't mind restrictions on who and how we visit vulnerable in hospital and care settings. 

That could be a sustainable way forward in my view.

Could be as you outline above. I’d say festivals are on the less realistic side, but distancing at sports events is probably more doable.

I certainly hope they allow more household mixing and outdoor meeting like bbqs. But we’ll have to see what happens.

The UK took a very business centric approach where the joke was that people could only meet if there was a cash register in the vicinity. Pubs open but no visiting granny’s house. We need to balance the economic needs with the human need for contact and intimacy with family and friends.

It’s tricky. Anyone who tries to tell you it’s simple, is not taking it seriously enough or doesn’t understand the competing issues at play. Those being economic needs, personal needs and virus transmission.

I know nobody wants to think no about it, but I think they’re terrified that the virus will mutate around the vaccine and we’ll be back to square 1. It could happen by normal mutation in humans or by jumping to other animals and back to humans in a different form - that’s why they culled the mink in Scandinavia before Christmas.

It’s not as simple as allowing the virus to go wild among the healthy population once the vulnerable are vaccinated. Until they know more, or develop a broader vaccine, they will want to keep global numbers low. So distancing and masks are in for the medium term.

Responder XY

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’d say festivals are on the less realistic side, but distancing at sports events is probably more doable.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed! hoping that distancing is just not going to be required outdoors by summer! (I may be over optimistic - but let me have my hope!)

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

the joke was that people could only meet if there was a cash register in the vicinity.

I think there was a sound basis for this - business would enforce some standards and interaction would be controlled. Private households never would.

FileNotFound

I would hope some return to normality this summer.

Attendance at sports events etc.

Don't see festivals happening - even just the visual and theoretical risk.

I suppose if the UK get more AZ vaccine then there will be more j&j for us.

El_Duderino 09

Responder XY wrote: »

...
I think there was a sound basis for this - business would enforce some standards and interaction would be controlled. Private households never would.

It also limited the amount of interaction and made it more measurable than if everyone was visiting houses willy-nilly. That mean they could get a better handle on how much interaction lead to how much transmission.

Those kinds of measures are important as they have to make decisions about these things but without a great handle on the cause and effect relationship. Hopefully they can take a more targeted approach this year and they can build relatively accurate models of how to balance economic activity, personal connection and intimacy and minimising the spread of the virus.

El_Duderino 09

J&J's Covid-19 vaccine 66% effective in large global trial
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0129/1193884-johnson-johnson-vaccine/

Mixed news here. Research showing the one-shot vaccine works but not as effective as the two dose versions. And the South African variant has some mutations in the area that the vaccine works so it's not as effective against that variant.

It's all progress. So hopefully they can use this to improve the vaccines.

Deeper Blue

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

J&J's Covid-19 vaccine 66% effective in large global trial
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0129/1193884-johnson-johnson-vaccine/

Mixed news here. Research showing the one-shot vaccine works but not as effective as the two dose versions. And the South African variant has some mutations in the area that the vaccine works so it's not as effective against that variant.

It's all progress. So hopefully they can use this to improve the vaccines.

It's extremely effective in reducing hospitalisations though, not sure how that could be considered anything other than brilliant news

El_Duderino 09

El Sueño wrote: »

It's extremely effective in reducing hospitalisations though, not sure how that could be considered anything other than brilliant news

That’s great news. Reading the full article renders more info which isn’t such good news. Things don’t have to be brilliant or terrible. There’s room for nuance and it’s an important topic so let’s make soon for nuance?

Deeper Blue

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s great news. Reading the full article renders more info which isn’t such good news. Things don’t have to be brilliant or terrible. There’s room for nuance and it’s an important topic so let’s make soon for nuance?

I don't see any negativity in the actual data despite the rte spin

El_Duderino 09

El Sueño wrote: »

I don't see any negativity in the actual data despite the rte spin

I didn’t say anything was negative at all.

So no room for nuance then?

Theboinkmaster

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I didn’t say anything was negative at all.

So no room for nuance then?

There is room for nuance but I found your response very negative to what I considered excellent and positive news.

Deeper Blue

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I didn’t say anything was negative at all.

So no room for nuance then?

Without wanting to get into the semantics too much, you said the news was "mixed" which would imply some positivity and some negativity.

There's always room for nuance.

El_Duderino 09

El Sueño wrote: »

Without wanting to get into the semantics too much, you said the news was "mixed" which would imply some positivity and some negativity.

There's always room for nuance.

You did get into semantics. I said not was mixed news because it is mixed news. Do you think the fact that the South African variation is less vulnerable to this vaccine than the older variations “excellent” news?

The fact that this vaccine is effective is great news. The fact that it’s less effective against the South African variant is less good news.

It’s not all “excellent” or “brilliant” news. It’s mixed news and generally pretty good. There’s room for nuance.

Thespoofer

Just want to say guys going by the recent reports/opinions on numbers, vaccines and forecasts I'm feeling alot more positive now since new year began.
That light at the end of the tunnel is getting that bit bigger each day.
Keep going.

gctest50

El Sueño wrote: »

It's extremely effective in reducing hospitalisations though, not sure how that could be considered anything other than brilliant news

If people get Covid after getting that vaccine and have very mild symptoms, they will move around more and spread it

Maybe it will be the help Covid needs to become the Great Herd-Thinner - unintended consequences etc

Brilliant that it will reduce the load on the failing hospitals, cr@p none of them do the sterilising immunity tricks

Samsonsmasher

Thespoofer wrote: »

Just want to say guys going by the recent reports/opinions on numbers, vaccines and forecasts I'm feeling alot more positive now since new year began.
That light at the end of the tunnel is getting that bit bigger each day.
Keep going.

The vaccine isn't being rolled out fast enough, a large portion of population will refuse to take it, deaths and cases will still be happening and lockdowns masks and social distancing will keep pubs bars restaurants cinemas theatres and workplaces closed. Many people will never take their masks off or leave their homes or travel on a plane for the rest of their lives. Politicians will be too cowardly to open up.
The media unions employers business people and ordinary workers show no sign of questioning the official response and therefore the regime of restrictions will continue indefinitely.
Mass business closures mass unemployment mass poverty and ultimately mass homelessness is coming at us like tsunami.
We are going to witness serious unrest and potentially serious political violence on par with the Troubles if the political leaders do not get a grip and open up before it is too late.
It is probably too late already.
The PUP is the only thing keeping food on the table and when it is stopped there will be only the dole and a reduced dole.
Public pay public jobs and public services will be cut and taxes will be increased dramatically.
There will be nowhere for young people to escape to because America Britain Australia will be ruined too.
Tent communities will pop up all over Dublin and around the country.
Law and order will break down.

Mr. Karate

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The vaccine isn't being rolled out fast enough, a large portion of population will refuse to take it, deaths and cases will still be happening and lockdowns masks and social distancing will keep pubs bars restaurants cinemas theatres and workplaces closed. Many people will never take their masks off or leave their homes or travel on a plane for the rest of their lives. Politicians will be too cowardly to open up.
The media unions employers business people and ordinary workers show no sign of questioning the official response and therefore the regime of restrictions will continue indefinitely.
Mass business closures mass unemployment mass poverty and ultimately mass homelessness is coming at us like tsunami.
We are going to witness serious unrest and potentially serious political violence on par with the Troubles if the political leaders do not get a grip and open up before it is too late.
It is probably too late already.
The PUP is the only thing keeping food on the table and when it is stopped there will be only the dole and a reduced dole.
Public pay public jobs and public services will be cut and taxes will be increased dramatically.
There will be nowhere for young people to escape to because America Britain Australia will be ruined too.
Tent communities will pop up all over Dublin and around the country.
Law and order will break down.

"Wouldn't it be worth it if we can save just one life?" Virtue Signallers everywhere.

Seriously though there's one problem with what you wrote. Most of us will probably never be in a position to accept/refuse the vaccine due to the Govt's constant ****ups. Sadly I have a feeling more vaccines will go into the rubbish bins than they will actual people. These idiots aren't going to suddenly become competent. Maybe when their paychecks and pensions are actually on the line.

Samsonsmasher

Mr. Karate wrote: »

"Wouldn't it be worth it if we can save just one life?" Virtue Signallers everywhere.

Seriously though there's one problem with what you wrote. Most of us will probably never be in a position to accept/refuse the vaccine due to the Govt's constant ****ups. Sadly I have a feeling more vaccines will go into the rubbish bins than they will actual people. These idiots aren't going to suddenly become competent. Maybe when their paychecks and pensions are actually on the line.

Certainly only when pay is in danger.

The sense of entitlement and delusion of school teachers is breath taking.

These people on full pay at tax payers expense are sitting at home in bed or on the couch watching Netflix drinking wine and stuffing themselves with snacks all day after toddling into Lidl or Aldi where workers have never been out of work since last March.

They act like crybabies as if teaching a class is like working in Chernobyl

Thespoofer

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The vaccine isn't being rolled out fast enough, a large portion of population will refuse to take it, deaths and cases will still be happening and lockdowns masks and social distancing will keep pubs bars restaurants cinemas theatres and workplaces closed. Many people will never take their masks off or leave their homes or travel on a plane for the rest of their lives. Politicians will be too cowardly to open up.
The media unions employers business people and ordinary workers show no sign of questioning the official response and therefore the regime of restrictions will continue indefinitely.
Mass business closures mass unemployment mass poverty and ultimately mass homelessness is coming at us like tsunami.
We are going to witness serious unrest and potentially serious political violence on par with the Troubles if the political leaders do not get a grip and open up before it is too late.
It is probably too late already.
The PUP is the only thing keeping food on the table and when it is stopped there will be only the dole and a reduced dole.
Public pay public jobs and public services will be cut and taxes will be increased dramatically.
There will be nowhere for young people to escape to because America Britain Australia will be ruined too.
Tent communities will pop up all over Dublin and around the country.
Law and order will break down.

I hope you're wrong.

Mr. Karate

Thespoofer wrote: »

I hope you're wrong.

The longer we let this drag on the more likely Samsonsmasher's post will come true. We have to force them to open up. They're not going to do it willingly. They've proven that time and again.

FileNotFound

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

J&J's Covid-19 vaccine 66% effective in large global trial
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0129/1193884-johnson-johnson-vaccine/

Mixed news here. Research showing the one-shot vaccine works but not as effective as the two dose versions. And the South African variant has some mutations in the area that the vaccine works so it's not as effective against that variant.

It's all progress. So hopefully they can use this to improve the vaccines.

Isn't that a misrepresentation.

I was reading up on it earlier.

80+% against the original strain with efficacy dipping to as low as 60% on others.

Only vaccine actively being trialled on other strains and over 30% of study elderly.

Also they have different classifications. It's measured at total immunity, reduction in symptoms and something else.

Also great safety data from it in trials to date.

Also J&j tech allows them to modify - plan is modified vaccine with higher efficacy to be ready by summer.

Just what I read earlier.

FileNotFound

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The longer we let this drag on the more likely Samsonsmasher's post will come true. We have to force them to open up. They're not going to do it willingly. They've proven that time and again.

Ye must know some worried heads.

Everyone I know will be back to normal in no time haha.

Samsonsmasher

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The longer we let this drag on the more likely Samsonsmasher's post will come true. We have to force them to open up. They're not going to do it willingly. They've proven that time and again.

How though?
Richard Mandaley has drawn comparisons with the Great War. Every day thousands of men went over the top only to be cut down by machine guns and this went on and on and on for 4 years.
Lockdowns have failed but yet are still being used destroying the economy businesses jobs the educations of young people and making any kind of normal life impossible.
As I see it is earing into the very fabric of civilisation and humanity.
How can a young man or woman with a job or in education who had a bf or gf a circle of friends who was into hobbies interests travel who is renting or living with their parents see any any future? Depression and suicidal ideation is skyrocketing while others will be attracted to extremism and violence or slide into alcoholism or drug addiction.
There is huge anger waiting to explode like a volcano out there.
At some point that is going to explode.
It's not a question of if but when.

FileNotFound

gctest50 wrote: »

If people get Covid after getting that vaccine and have very mild symptoms, they will move around more and spread it

Maybe it will be the help Covid needs to become the Great Herd-Thinner - unintended consequences etc

Brilliant that it will reduce the load on the failing hospitals, cr@p none of them do the sterilising immunity tricks

Supports natural Immunity, count it as another artillery piece in the war on covid.

accensi0n

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Lockdowns have failed

Surely the most recent lock down has been a success, ensuring that the hospitals didn't become completely overwhelmed.

Samsonsmasher

accensi0n wrote: »

Surely the most recent lock down has been a success, ensuring that the hospitals didn't become completely overwhelmed.

When we open up cases and deaths will rise.
The vaccine is not being rolled out fast enough.
In fact the majority of people 99.97% of the population don't actually need it but are being kept in limbo as businesses jobs educations and their futures go down the drain.
There will never be zero deaths or zero cases which mean that even if the majority get the vaccine eventually - 2022? 2023? 2024? - the lockdowns and restrictions will continue.
That will result in an explosion eventually.
Economic collapse is looming and that will fuel political unrest especially among angry young people who are being asked to sacrifice their freedom their youth happiness and futures to supposedly save the lives of the very old and very sick who likely dying of underlying conditions anyway rather than covid.
People are being criminalized for socializing for going to see their family members for taking recreation outside 5km or leaving the country.
Anyone who seriously supports this draconianism has lost all touch with reality.

accensi0n

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

When we open up cases and deaths will rise.
The vaccine is not being rolled out fast enough.
In fact the majority of people 99.97% of the population don't actually need it but are being kept in limbo as businesses jobs educations and their futures go down the drain.
There will never be zero deaths or zero cases which mean that even if the majority get the vaccine eventually - 2022? 2023? 2024? - the lockdowns and restrictions will continue.
That will result in an explosion eventually.
Economic collapse is looming and that will fuel political unrest especially among angry young people who are being asked to sacrifice their freedom their youth happiness and futures to supposedly save the lives of the very old and very sick who likely dying of underlying conditions anyway rather than covid.

None of that directly addresses my response to the statement made that the lockdowns have failed.
What was the purpose of the current lock down and how has it failed?

Samsonsmasher

accensi0n wrote: »

None of that directly addresses my response to the statement made that the lockdowns have failed.
What was the purpose of the current lock down and how has it failed?

Are you for real? It's destroying the country. Destroying businesses. Destroying jobs. Destroying the mental health of our people.
The whole country is a prison.
Of course it's a failure.
For the sake of a 0.03% death rate?
We were told back in March 100000 would die.
This is total insanity.
We need to open up right away and get back to normal while we still have a country and an economy.
You are completely blind to this are you?
Let's burn the country to the ground?
Why haven't you woken up to what's happening?
Are you in a trance?

Samsonsmasher

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Certainly only when pay is in danger.

The sense of entitlement and delusion of school teachers is breath taking.

These people on full pay at tax payers expense are sitting at home in bed or on the couch watching Netflix drinking wine and stuffing themselves with snacks all day after toddling into Lidl or Aldi where workers have never been out of work since last March.

They act like crybabies as if teaching a class is like working in Chernobyl

Jesus, you have some hump with teachers. Did ya not get enough points yourself?

Samsonsmasher

bubblypop wrote: »

Jesus, you have some hump with teachers

You better believe I do.
They are sitting at home on full pay while children are at home losing their education pretending they will die if they teach a class. Parents are seeing their business and their jobs go down the drain.
This is utter insanity.

Samsonsmasher

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

You better believe I do.
They are sitting at home on full pay while children are at home losing their education pretending they will die if they teach a class. Parents are seeing their business and their jobs go down the drain.
This is utter insanity.

Kids are doing the work at home set by teachers at home, some of whom are working at all hours because they have their own kids at home.
Lots of kids are doing full schooldays online with live classes.
You sound very bitter, is there any other workers forced to stay home that you have issues with?