When will it all end?

Mr. Karate

ELM327 wrote: »

I was a FG voter (and will remain a FG voter) so perhaps I'm biased. But the current government is not fit for purpose and we need Leo back as Taoiseach. We also need to get rid of the unelected lockdown fetishists that encompass NPHET. Finally, the government need to realise that the 5km limit is widely ignored and is frankly risible.

Leo was just as clueless as Martin is when he was in charge. Its only now that he's not in power does he act like he has copped on.

Aph2016

GazzaL wrote: »

I was talking to a man in his 70s today, someone who'd be involved in lots of different community groups, and someone who'd fall into the category of people who always vote. He is sick to his back teeth of the restrictions.

The political parties have abandoned the centre ground, they've abandoned the active elderly, they've abandoned SMEs, they've abandoned people who want to earn an honest living to provide for their families. Who are these people meant to vote for? SF and the loony left want even more lockdowns, the Social Democrats have been influenced by Zero COVID extremists who wanted to run a mental terror campaign attacking the public to get people to do what they wanted. Who's left?

It's a good question, I'd have no idea who to vote for if there was a general election tomorrow. There's only been one or two politicians who have spoken some common sense in the past year, Leo Varadker back in October was one of them, and he was slated.

GazzaL

Hooked wrote: »

If only they’d, you know, built some bloody capacity... like they promised a YEAR ago.

70 people. Out of a population of near 5 million...

As I’ve said time and again... this virus isn’t anywhere near as deadly as our piss poor health system would have us believe.

How dare you suggest that they do something to tackle the problem! Outrageous! Next thing you'll be telling us that we should have implemented a proper testing and contact tracing system!

El_Duderino 09

Scotty # wrote: »

I thought the first one was a mistake but you've said it twice now.... we're averaging 600 cases per DAY not per week.

It's actually closer to 580 but still very very high to be considering easing restrictions.

Currently 70 with Covid in ICU, up 4 since yesterday, which is 32% of our normal capacity, with just one illness!

You’re right. I mixed it up. The stat I was thinking of was that there has been an average of over 600 per day FOR the last 6weeks.

Mr. Karate

VonLuck wrote: »

Tell me, where do you think the government can magic up this additional capacity in the space of a year?

They could have added beds and ventilators to hospitals last year if they wanted to with the money HSE gets every year. The head of the HSE makes over €420K a year. Time to trim that salary and invest in the hospital staffing and equipment.

bucketybuck

VonLuck wrote: »

Tell me, where do you think the government can magic up this additional capacity in the space of a year?

A good example of the type of post you find on here, where no matter what the government will be defended even if doing so destroys any credibility.

I mean, the complete and utter cheek of suggesting that after a full year the government might have improved ICU capacity even by just a little bit. Its just insanity isn't it, what sort of loon would even suggest it, you'd need to be crazy just to consider diverting some of those billions spent towards an ICU department.

A year like, thats only 12 months, nobody could possibly do anything productive about the problem in 12 months.

El_Duderino 09

Hooked wrote: »

If only they’d, you know, built some bloody capacity... like they promised a YEAR ago.

70 people. Out of a population of near 5 million...

As I’ve said time and again... this virus isn’t anywhere near as deadly as our piss poor health system would have us believe.

Yeah the uk built nightingale hospitals to increase capacity. Great job. Then they tried to staff them and realised that they didn’t have the medical staff.

It’s not as simple as building the temporary hospitals. You need staff too and they’re harder to get than the buildings.

PMBC

VonLuck wrote: »

My expectation is an extension of travel for exercise to 25km, click and collect to be allowed and limited construction (housing) to recommence.

I think you are close if not correct and Id guess 10k distance allowed plus all housing construction.
I cant understand why golf is not allowed and Im not a golfer or golf fan.
I think the reason travel distances are restricted is not the travelling but the activity that might be associated with bigger distances i.e. go to the beach, all crowd together for parking spaces, ice-cream, coffee.

Scotty #

Hooked wrote: »

If only they’d, you know, built some bloody capacity...

Mr. Karate wrote: »

They could have added beds...

bucketybuck wrote: »

I mean, the complete and utter cheek of suggesting that after a full year the government might have improved ICU capacity even by just a little bit...

You do all realise that's exactly what they did right??? Increased from 225 to 355. How could none of you have known that and yet still feel qualified to complain? It's hilarious, clueless indeed!

RGS

PMBC wrote: »

I think you are close if not correct and Id guess 10k distance allowed plus all housing construction.
I cant understand why golf is not allowed and Im not a golfer or golf fan.
I think the reason travel distances are restricted is not the travelling but the activity that might be associated with bigger distances i.e. go to the beach, all crowd together for parking spaces, ice-cream, coffee.

We cant keep micro managing every action by everybody in the state. We need to allow people decide on the risk associated with these activities. We are not talking about indoor concerts or full stadia for sport but outdoor activities which should be encouraged with gusto. Tell everybody get outdoors dont meet indoors.

All these restrictions do is drive people indoors.

GooglePlus

Scotty # wrote: »

You do all realise that's exactly what they did right??? Increased from 225 to 355. How could none of you have known that and yet still feel qualified to complain? It's hilarious, clueless indeed!

They must expect them to pull trained ICU nurses out of their arse as well, that increase is no small feat. Usual craic of shaking the fist without having a notion, it's contagious.

Scotty #

GooglePlus wrote: »

Usual craic of shaking the fist without having notion, it's contagious.

Rampant in this thread.

11521323

bucketybuck wrote: »

A good example of the type of post you find on here, where no matter what the government will be defended even if doing so destroys any credibility.

I mean, the complete and utter cheek of suggesting that after a full year the government might have improved ICU capacity even by just a little bit. Its just insanity isn't it, what sort of loon would even suggest it, you'd need to be crazy just to consider diverting some of those billions spent towards an ICU department.

A year like, thats only 12 months, nobody could possibly do anything productive about the problem in 12 months.

Many individuals outsource the workings of their decision making to the Government. When these people say something, it's not subject to the standards that a logical thought should meet and has not been reasoned scientifically in their mind. Therefore, you may find it hard to debate their points because they're so devoid of logic it physically hurts my head.

That's my experience in this and other threads anyway.

GazzaL

GooglePlus wrote: »

They must expect them to pull trained ICU nurses out of their arse as well, that increase is no small feat. Usual craic of shaking the fist without having notion, it's contagious.

The HSE would have to train and/or hire staff? Sure how could we expect them to do something like that in 12 months?

GooglePlus

GazzaL wrote: »

The HSE would have to train and/or hire staff? Sure how could we expect them to do something like that in 12 months?

Normal nurses are still required elsewhere, so you need nurses that are coming through college to finish and fill these gaps. They've even pulled them out of college and into placement early for muck money as they're that short. So how do you suggest we come up with the rest? You can't put a nurse through college in 12 months.

drunkmonkey

GazzaL wrote: »

Who's left?

The hero we deserve

GazzaL

GooglePlus wrote: »

Normal nurses are still required elsewhere, so you need nurses that are coming through college to finish and fill these gaps. They've even pulled them out of college and into placement early for muck money as they're that short. So how do you suggest we come up with the rest? You can't put a nurse through college in 12 months.

Huge numbers of medical professionals tried to answer Ireland's call but were shafted by the HSE:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/doctors-returning-to-fight-covid-19-feel-betrayed-says-imo-1.4283771
https://www.thejournal.ie/on-call-for-ireland-workers-5170155-Aug2020/

How on earth does any organisation or any business recruit staff? It's so difficult, they might as well all just close their doors instead.

The excuses from people on here are unbelievable.

Boggerman12

VonLuck wrote: »

Tell me, where do you think the government can magic up this additional capacity in the space of a year?

Ah they could’ve but the hse is like a crack addict.give them some and 5 mins later back for more.as a state we could give the hse the entire budget of the country and all they would do is hire manager and pen pushers

PMBC

PMBC wrote: »

I think you are close if not correct and Id guess 10k distance allowed plus all housing construction.
I cant understand why golf is not allowed and Im not a golfer or golf fan.
I think the reason travel distances are restricted is not the travelling but the activity that might be associated with bigger distances i.e. go to the beach, all crowd together for parking spaces, ice-cream, coffee.

but that's exactly what's happening now anyway, within the 5KM!! Parks are absolutely packed, so are streets, piers, and seafront walks BECAUSE everyone is crammed together! Queues of people for coffee at take away coffee vans and shops because hardly anything else is open. The 5KM is responsible for everyone being stuck in the same place. Golf would be safer than walking down the promenade or the street surely?


If they allowed everything to open in a small way there would be no surge of people. Inevitably when shops open they will be packed because nobody has been inside anything except a supermarket for months. Stupid, short sighted thinking that is actually responsible for surges. Nobody in Government seems to understand basic human behaviour.

niallo27

GooglePlus wrote: »

They must expect them to pull trained ICU nurses out of their arse as well, that increase is no small feat. Usual craic of shaking the fist without having a notion, it's contagious.

This is exactly the attitude why our health service is in such a pathetic state, no accountability, excuse after excuse, 100s on trolleys every winter and millions squandered but sure what can they do. I wonder where you work.

Mr. Karate

Scotty # wrote: »

You do all realise that's exactly what they did right??? Increased from 225 to 355. How could none of you have known that and yet still feel qualified to complain? It's hilarious, clueless indeed!

And yet it still wasn't enough since we still have to stay in lockdown to save this organization.

VonLuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

A good example of the type of post you find on here, where no matter what the government will be defended even if doing so destroys any credibility.

I mean, the complete and utter cheek of suggesting that after a full year the government might have improved ICU capacity even by just a little bit. Its just insanity isn't it, what sort of loon would even suggest it, you'd need to be crazy just to consider diverting some of those billions spent towards an ICU department.

A year like, thats only 12 months, nobody could possibly do anything productive about the problem in 12 months.

What good are extra beds and ventilators if there are no specialists to man the wards? You can't train someone to be an anaesthesiologist in a year!

bucketybuck

11521323 wrote: »

When these people say something, it's not subject to the standards that a logical thought should meet and has not been reasoned scientifically in their mind.

Their logic is very simple, defend NPHET and the government at all times.

The travel restrictions could be changed to 1km tomorrow unless you were carrying a €9 meal and they would be in here pretending that they thought it was necessary and a good idea.

11521323

bucketybuck wrote: »

Their logic is very simple, defend NPHET and the government at all times.

The travel restrictions could be changed to 1km tomorrow unless you were carrying a €9 meal and they would be in here pretending that they thought it was necessary and a good idea.

This scares me more than any pandemic, I wasn't aware of the lengths that people would go to, just to support and comply with even the most illogical and nonsensical of restrictions. It genuinely makes me ashamed to be Irish.

Graham

11521323 wrote: »

Many individuals outsource the workings of their decision making to the Government. When these people say something, it's not subject to the standards that a logical thought should meet and has not been reasoned scientifically in their mind. Therefore, you may find it hard to debate their points because they're so devoid of logic it physically hurts my head.

That's my experience in this and other threads anyway.

Either that or they have thought it through and come to broadly the same conclusion.

That sounds more reasonable than 'anyone that disagrees with me is devoid of logic'.

Is that a point that you'd find hard to debate because it 'hurts your head'?

11521323

Graham wrote: »

Either that or they have thought it through and come to broadly the same conclusion.

That sounds more reasonable than 'anyone that disagrees with me is devoid of logic'.

Is that a point that you'd find hard to debate because it 'hurts your head'?

I never said anyone who disagrees with me did I? I can disagree with people civilly and respect their opinion, once it is substantiated by a certain degree of evidence and logic.

The individuals I'm talking about are ones who repeat the same point perpetually without providing an ounce of commentary or evidence to support it.

VonLuck

11521323 wrote: »

I never said anyone who disagrees with me did I? I can disagree with people civilly and respect their opinion, once it is substantiated by a certain degree of evidence and logic.

The individuals I'm talking about are ones who repeat the same point perpetually without providing an ounce of commentary or evidence to support it.

You mean the commentary I gave which you chose to ignore?

11521323

VonLuck wrote: »

You mean the commentary I gave which you chose to ignore?

What commentary? I don't sit on this thread all day debating with people so apologies if I've missed it.

El_Duderino 09

RGS wrote: »

We cant keep micro managing every action by everybody in the state. We need to allow people decide on the risk associated with these activities. We are not talking about indoor concerts or full stadia for sport but outdoor activities which should be encouraged with gusto. Tell everybody get outdoors dont meet indoors.

All these restrictions do is drive people indoors.

Earlier we had people complaining that they aren’t enforcing a border crossing search with NI to prevent people coming from abroad through NI. Now we’re back to allowing people to assess their own risk for themselves.

Why do we never join these things up? If people can be trusted to make their own decision, then why would we need to restrict mass gathering? If people
Choose to go to a packed Croke park, could it be the wrong decision if all those people assessed the risk for themselves? Or would people choose not to go to Croke park if it were fully open because they assessed the risk?

Lundstram

Think these threads have become a little pointless now. We have posters on the "anti-lockdown" side throwing around facts and common sense with wild abandon but then we have the other side, "pro-lockdown", typing any old guff to refute facts because they're so far into their narrative now that they can't be seen to back down. They've held this opinion for over a year now so they must see it through 'til the bitter end.

I know people in person, on various other social media and even respected journalists who have admitted they were wrong and that this has turned into an utter farce of epic proportions.

There's a small cohort of "pro-lockdowners" on this thread and others like it who are very much out numbered now but their stance must be rigorously upheld no matter what. I refuse to believe some of them actually agree with what they're posting on these threads.

The below is taken from one of the top thanked posts today, this is a summation of our current situation. Quite remarakable that a relaxation of restrictions can be argued against with the below in mind. The only thing that's surging is testing of healthy people. The median age of cases today was 32. That should be celebrated, not an excuse to keep the longest lockdown in Europe going for another while.

So ending March with
-more tests
-less cases
-more vaccinated
-less hospitalised

And the disease is surging.