When will it all end?

ujjjjjjjjj

Tazz T wrote: »

Of course, the perspective on that narrative changes when the 'somebody in their 80s' is someone you know.

I have elderly parents as does my wife including one who has significant underlying conditions. Neither myself or my wife want any of them to die but they will soon one way or the other and neither myself or my wife would or will change our perspective if any of them died from Covid, we both believe these restrictions are draconian. We are fully supporting our parents decision to lay low at the moment but if they didn't want to lay low I would fully respect that too. They can isolate easily and as long as they want to do this we both will continue to respect and support their decision. The endless narratives about you can't get the elderly or vulnerable to isolate is simply not true. They do not expect myself or my wife or the grandkids to lay low if we don't want to. I am amazed as to how many people are prepared to impose their will on others and it is deeply unsettling and disturbing.

Tazz T

Tazz T wrote: »

Of course, the perspective on that narrative changes when the 'somebody in their 80s' is someone you know.

I have to say I don't agree with you.
My mum is 86 and in a nursing home. She is still very vocal and knows all of us but being locked up for the last year has had a huge effect on her......and to her detriment. She has repeatedly asked to see us and has said she would sooner "take her chances " at 86 than " live the remainder of her life in jaol seeing nobody" (her words!).

She has said she would sooner see her children working and her grandchildren at school and at college rather than all of them stuck at home for a year with every aspect of their lives "stopped" for the sake of over 80's. Nobody is winning here.

ujjjjjjjjj

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to say I don't agree with you.
My mum is 86 and in a nursing home. She is still very vocal and knows all of us but being locked up for the last year has had a huge effect on her......and to her detriment. She has repeatedly asked to see us and has said she would sooner "take her chances " at 86 than " live the remainder of her life in jaol seeing nobody" (her words!).

She has said she would sooner see her children working and her grandchildren at school and at college rather than all of them stuck at home for a year with every aspect of their lives "stopped" for the sake of over 80's. Nobody is winning here.

Heart goes out to her, why is her choice simply irrelevant and unimportant to so many people.? She sounds entirely clued in and it sounds just like our 85 year old neighbour who has clearly said to us on several occasions he ain't wasting his limited remaining time hiding in his house. He is a retired doctor by the way and quite happy to discuss that even at 85 Covid isn't a death sentence and he is happy to take his chances of surviving it. He isn't going out of his way to deliberately catch it but he ain't exactly hiding at home.......

Hector Savage

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/exiting-lockdown-goalposts-have-shifted-since-january-4/

Predictions from government experts as to when restrictions might be lifted now range anywhere from the end of February to the summer. Increasingly, they include worrying forecasts that measures may need to be re-imposed next winter.

This lack of clarity is leading to fears that the goalposts are being shifted even as the ball thunders into the six-yard box.

Yes, but it's a conspiracy to suggest they want to continue these restrictions indefinitely.

What is going on here ? why do they want this to go on forever ?

I firmly believe even when 100% people are vaccinated they will still say "restrictions needed due to XXX variant/new virus".... When you see the likes of RTE saying restrictions need to continue because of a Paris strain that is 100% vaccine resistant - doesn't exist btw, but basically a what if scenario ?

Should we seriously start considering moving miles underground into bunkers because there could be an asteroid the size of Alaska heading our way at a speed of 50 KM/s ???

El_Duderino 09

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/exiting-lockdown-goalposts-have-shifted-since-january-4/




Yes, but it's a conspiracy to suggest they want to continue these restrictions indefinitely.

What is going on here ? why do they want this to go on forever ?

I firmly believe even when 100% people are vaccinated they will still say "restrictions needed due to XXX variant/new virus".... When you see the likes of RTE saying restrictions need to continue because of a Paris strain that is 100% vaccine resistant - doesn't exist btw, but basically a what if scenario ?

Should we seriously start considering moving miles underground into bunkers because there could be an asteroid the size of Alaska heading our way at a speed of 50 KM/s ???

Where do you think the goalposts were originally, and to where do you think they’re going to be moved?

Also, who told you where the goalposts were originally?

There was a poster in the pubs thread who thought the pubs would reopen the day after the vaccine was approved. Insupppse they think the goalposts have already been moved.

ujjjjjjjjj

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/exiting-lockdown-goalposts-have-shifted-since-january-4/




Yes, but it's a conspiracy to suggest they want to continue these restrictions indefinitely.

What is going on here ? why do they want this to go on forever ?

I firmly believe even when 100% people are vaccinated they will still say "restrictions needed due to XXX variant/new virus".... When you see the likes of RTE saying restrictions need to continue because of a Paris strain that is 100% vaccine resistant - doesn't exist btw, but basically a what if scenario ?

Should we seriously start considering moving miles underground into bunkers because there could be an asteroid the size of Alaska heading our way at a speed of 50 KM/s ???

What if is entering the equation for sure. Travel restrictions are now entirely in place due to 'what if', nothing to do with science or common sense. The narrative is about keeping new strains out.......despite the fact that data keeps coming out about the vaccines working with the new mutant strains. How many articles have there been about new strains, vaccine resistant strains etc etc It is all speculation and hysteria and administrations have used them to suit their lockdown narrative.

And yes I think we should all move to a bunker just in case an asteroid falls on our head. Better to be safe than sorry.

Tiredandcranky

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Heart goes out to her, why is her choice simply irrelevant and unimportant to so many people.? She sounds entirely clued in and it sounds just like our 85 year old neighbour who has clearly said to us on several occasions he ain't wasting his limited remaining time hiding in his house. He is a retired doctor by the way and quite happy to discuss that even at 85 Covid isn't a death sentence and he is happy to take his chances of surviving it. He isn't going out of his way to deliberately catch it but he ain't exactly hiding at home.......

Yes but as callous as they may sound, it has to be said..... even though your neighbour may not fear death or illness, does he have a right to recklessly endanger the health of other people who require access to our hospitals for non COVID reasons like cancer diagnosis etc. Because if he’s taken ill with COVID, there’s every chance he’ll end up in a hospital bed, and if every old person behaves like him, there will be no or limited services available for a young person who has a dodgy mole on their arm that might be early stage melanoma, or an unexplained persistent headache that might be a brain tumour.

I feel for your neighbors situation. I know old people who’ve expressed similar thoughts but there’s no easy answers here unfortunately.

haskellgeek

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55967767

The uk already talking about a booster jab in the autumn required not great news, not awful either the study will be interesting tomorrow to read. South African strain seems to be causing issues

dublin49

I think when numbers here reduce there will be a clamour to re open much more quickly than the Government want .I suspect the UK will commence opening up from April and with similiar or worse Covid numbers to ours the pressure on the Government will be too much and they will reluctantly follow the British lead.The debate will then commence re our attitude to locking down again next winter.

Natterjack from Kerry

haskellgeek wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55967767

The uk already talking about a booster jab in the autumn required not great news, not awful either the study will be interesting tomorrow to read. South African strain seems to be causing issues

Its only not great news to those thinking vaccines are a one shot thing and then its all over and back to 2019. Which is an unrealistic outlook that isnt really being corrected responsibly by authorities. As a rolling part of life for decades to come, boosters, new vaccines, troublesome variants, permanent low level restrictions (we will not be on aeroplanes for generations without wearing masks, but no big deal really), and occasional tougher shorter term restrictions to handle flareups , are here to stay. The headline is truly of the nothing to see here variety.

niallo27

haskellgeek wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55967767

The uk already talking about a booster jab in the autumn required not great news, not awful either the study will be interesting tomorrow to read. South African strain seems to be causing issues

It provides protection against severe illness which is the main thing, if people have mild symptoms, they need to just get over it

haskellgeek

Short term restrictions in the longer term will require cheap loans to continue though so we will require the ECB to give them out. I don't see the ECB having 0% loans forever

Hector Savage

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Where do you think the goalposts were originally, and to where do you think they’re going to be moved?

Also, who told you where the goalposts were originally?

There was a poster in the pubs thread who thought the pubs would reopen the day after the vaccine was approved. Insupppse they think the goalposts have already been moved.

Plenty of examples in the article, It's pay walled so I put it up on a google doc

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hx4uJp2-wIz33G9rOyvAQbTH_XDHhzWayKBj4qJ-mC8/edit?usp=sharing

SheepsClothing

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

What if is entering the equation for sure. Travel restrictions are now entirely in place due to 'what if', nothing to do with science or common sense. The narrative is about keeping new strains out.......despite the fact that data keeps coming out about the vaccines working with the new mutant strains. How many articles have there been about new strains, vaccine resistant strains etc etc It is all speculation and hysteria and administrations have used them to suit their lockdown narrative.

And yes I think we should all move to a bunker just in case an asteroid falls on our head. Better to be safe than sorry.

It's already established that the South African strain is resistant to the vaccine to an extent. Why then is it so hard to imagine that a strain could emerge that may be even more resistant, to the point of being a threat.

While Covid is hugely prevelant in the world and many countries do not have their populations vaccinated, the government should have a plan to keep out mutant strains, which could plunge us right back into lockdown. As much as the government are a bunch of clowns who have made a mess of this, your post proves that things could always be worse.

Hector Savage

SheepsClothing wrote: »

It's already established that the South African strain is resistant to the vaccine to an extent. Why then is it so hard to imagine that a strain could emerge that may be even more resistant, to the point of being a threat.

While Covid is hugely prevelant in the world and many countries do not have their populations vaccinated, the government should have a plan to keep out mutant strains, which could plunge us right back into lockdown. As much as the government are a bunch of clowns who have made a mess of this, your post proves that things could always be worse.

Just think about that post for a second.

With that view moving on from this, the only possible way is endless lockdowns...

Even with 100% of the globe vaccinated, "well there could be a new strain out tomorrow that's 100% resistant to it" ...

Boom, lockdown

SheepsClothing

Hector Savage wrote: »

Just think about that post for a second.

With that view moving on from this, the only possible way is endless lockdowns...

Even with 100% of the globe vaccinated, "well there could be a new strain out tomorrow that's 100% resistant to it" ...

Boom, lockdown

With the virus mutating constantly among unvaccinated populations, it is much, MUCH more likely that a resistant strain will emerge.

Extending logic which would necessitate travel restrictions now, to a point in the future where a resistant strain is extremely unlikely to emerge is just dishonest framing and an argument against a strawman government.

Micky 32

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

SheepsClothing wrote: »

With the virus mutating constantly among unvaccinated populations, it is much, MUCH more likely that a resistant strain will emerge.

Extending logic which would necessitate travel restrictions now, to a point in the future where a resistant strain is extremely unlikely to emerge is just dishonest framing and an argument against a strawman government.

So would you say 50 more years of lockdowns and no travel? Would that sort it? Or would you say maybe 100 years?:rolleyes:

SheepsClothing

Micky 32 wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:


So would you say 50 more years of lockdowns and no travel? Would that sort it? Or would you say maybe 100 years?:rolleyes:

The world will be vaccinated sometime next year, so I'd advocate travel restrictions of one type of another until then.

ShadowTech

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Its only not great news to those thinking vaccines are a one shot thing and then its all over and back to 2019. Which is an unrealistic outlook that isnt really being corrected responsibly by authorities. As a rolling part of life for decades to come, boosters, new vaccines, troublesome variants, permanent low level restrictions (we will not be on aeroplanes for generations without wearing masks, but no big deal really), and occasional tougher shorter term restrictions to handle flareups , are here to stay. The headline is truly of the nothing to see here variety.

I'm not sure what you're basing this dystopian prediction on. The goal of all the restrictions is to keep the health system from being overwhelmed. Right now we're having trouble because because it's a novel virus and too few of our population has any immunity at all, which means lots of people get sick simultaneously. Once a sufficient percentage of our population has been vaccinated this will no longer be the case. Even with mutations in the virus it's unlikely to change so rapidly and dramatically that the entire population will be at risk of severe illness simultaneously.

Once we reach that point, which should be later this year, the need for restrictions disappears. If your predictions come true and for some reason we are subjected to more years of restrictions then we have a more serious problem in that our civil liberties have been taken past the emergency situation we're currently dealing with.

Micky 32

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The world will be vaccinated sometime next year, so I'd advocate travel restrictions of one type of another until then.

Ah that’s good, i just wanted to know would you still be advocating the restrictions once vaccinated.

ShadowTech

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The world will be vaccinated sometime next year, so I'd advocate travel restrictions of one type of another until then.

Would you favour blanket travel restrictions or restrictions to similarly vaccinated areas?

I ask because so many of these debates are just absolute extremes. e.g. lock down / no lock down, travel restrictions / no travel restrictions, etc.

I personally would think that as we and other countries get to the point of having a majority of their population vaccinated we would start by opening travel to those countries even if the world is not 100% vaccinated. For us the logical locations would be other places in the EU.

Micky 32

ShadowTech wrote: »

Would you favour blanket travel restrictions or restrictions to similarly vaccinated areas?

I ask because so many of these debates are just absolute extremes. e.g. lock down / no lock down, travel restrictions / no travel restrictions, etc.

I personally would think that as we and other countries get to the point of having a majority of their population vaccinated we would start by opening travel to those countries even if the world is not 100% vaccinated. For us the logical locations would be other places in the EU.

I think what will happen is travel corridors will open between countries that will have completed their vaccination programs and of course the vaccine works. You’ll probably have to show proof of vaccination and maybe a test also. It’s just a guess but i think it’s likely that’s what will happen.

Hego Damask

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The world will be vaccinated sometime next year, so I'd advocate travel restrictions of one type of another until then.

Yes but according to you vaccine resistant mutations are a certainty, so what then ?

ShadowTech

Hego Damask wrote: »

Yes but according to you vaccine resistant mutations are a certainty, so what then ?

I'm not speaking for the poster you quoted, just giving my own thoughts.

I think it is very likely we'll have vaccine resistant mutations, but it's not much of a concern if enough people are vaccinated in a relatively short time frame. Major mutations that are completely unaffected by the existing vaccines and subsequent immune response are not likely to happen and vaccines will probably be updated each year similar to the flu vaccine (just taken more seriously by the general population).

Natterjack from Kerry

Hego Damask wrote: »

Yes but according to you vaccine resistant mutations are a certainty, so what then ?

More vaccines. Some restrictions. It will be slightly different, but we will adapt, and it will be fine. We will live with light restrictions. Jammed clubs and bars during the summer hols or ski resorts in the winter with people from all over Europe will be no more. But thats not a big deal. We will still go to the sun or snow, just slightly differently. A bit more caution. And occasional limited, local restrictions.

Deeper Blue

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Jammed clubs and bars during the summer hols or ski resorts in the winter with people from all over Europe will be no more.

Not even a year into this and people genuinely believe that some things like the above will be gone forever? Seriously?

Also I love how the vaccines have been written off already when barely 1.5% of the world's population have gotten their first dose.

Hmob

The masks will come off and the bars and clubs will be jammed again

Timeline is down to what's happening elsewhere and numbers in hospital

ShadowTech

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

More vaccines. Some restrictions. It will be slightly different, but we will adapt, and it will be fine. We will live with light restrictions. Jammed clubs and bars during the summer hols or ski resorts in the winter with people from all over Europe will be no more. But thats not a big deal. We will still go to the sun or snow, just slightly differently. A bit more caution. And occasional limited, local restrictions.

Why do you think this? I'm not asking to pick a fight, I genuinely want to know. Your predictions are not what happened after other pandemics and I don't believe that this is what the majority of people want. Once the initial emergency is over why do you think people will continue with restrictions and give up entire portions of their lives forever?

Edited to add: I'm not saying you're wrong, btw. I've been really surprised at the level of compliance of the population during all of this so I can see that it's at least possible to convince people to do almost anything. I'm just asking, why?

jackboy

ShadowTech wrote: »

Why do you think this? I'm not asking to pick a fight, I genuinely want to know. Your predictions are not what happened after other pandemics and I don't believe that this is what the majority of people want. Once the initial emergency is over why do you think people will continue with restrictions and give up entire portions of their lives forever?

This has gone on long enough to change people’s behaviour in at least the medium term. Will we accept a massive trolley crises due to annual flu going forward? Or will we mandate masks and possibly implement winter restrictions to prevent that?

Mr. Karate

SandraMcCarthy wrote: »

Many vaccines are on the market now. It will be ended soon.

Not with the way this Govt is dragging its feet.