When will it all end?

stefanovich

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Of course I don't. Has an 85 years old death ever been described as tragic?

Yes. That 85 year old may have a husband or wife or kids or grandchildren. All life is precious.

SnuggyBear

Get real lads

agoodpunt

of course an 85 year is not equal to an 18year they have lived and should be protected but not at the expence of throwing the economy under a bus
The goverment have being brain dead have done nothing to make live better pup is popular but we will have to pay this back in taxes its a loan
protect the vunerable stop blaming and dividing open the damn country aleast to equal other european nations so we can aleast get a hair cut, f c off blaming those who want normality in there life

beggars_bush

agoodpunt wrote: »

of course an 85 year is not equal to an 18year they have lived and should be protected but not at the expence of throwing the economy under a bus
The goverment have being brain dead have done nothing to make live better pup is popular but we will have to pay this back in taxes its a loan
protect the vunerable stop blaming and dividing open the damn country aleast to equal other european nations so we can aleast get a hair cut, f c off blaming those who want normality in there life

Buy a hair trimmer.

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Get real lads

Where's your cut off?
85?
83?
80?
When does your life mean less then others?

niallo27

bubblypop wrote: »

Where's your cut off?
85?
83?
80?
When does your life mean less then others?

So if you had the choice of saving an 85 year old or a 10 year old, who would you pick to save. Why do you think nursing homes don't send their patients to hospital majority of the time.

stefanovich

beggars_bush wrote: »

Buy a hair trimmer.

My wife cuts her own hair and mine. People shouldn’t be so vain.

The HorsesMouth

niallo27 wrote: »

So if you had the choice of saving an 85 year old or a 10 year old, who would you pick to save. Why do you think nursing homes don't send their patients to hospital majority of the time.

That's a different question though. The actual life has to be equal to others.
Saving the life is when it becomes biased towards the young.
There's a difference I think

stefanovich

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

That's a different question though. The actual life has to be equal to others.
Saving the life is when it becomes biased towards the young.
There's a difference I think

Except in war when we sacrifice the young for the country.

GazzaL

What about all the poor OAPs who, having worked hard all their lives, are being denied the opportunity to go abroad on holidays to enjoy a bit of sunshine? The pro lockdown crowd don't care about the elderly.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

So if you had the choice of saving an 85 year old or a 10 year old, who would you pick to save. Why do you think nursing homes don't send their patients to hospital majority of the time.

They thats not the question.
The poster seems to think that not all lives are equal.
I'd like to know when he thinks his life becomes less then other lives.

SnuggyBear

bubblypop wrote: »

They thats not the question.
The poster seems to think that not all lives are equal.
I'd like to know when he thinks his life becomes less then other lives.

I'll put it to you like this. I'm middle aged and I think a new born baby has more value than my life.

ujjjjjjjjj

Choices about the value of human life are made all the time in our health system and it all boils down to measuring QALYs and weighing treatment cost v QALY outcome. Decisions not to treat very elderly and frail people are also taken all the time for compassionate reasons. Many frail elderly with Covid and other respiratory diseases are left to die as invasive treatment is considering inhumane. Taking an 85 year old with dementia and putting them on a ventilator with little chance of success isn't exactly humane.

My grandmother had severe dementia but physically strong. She caught a virus which progressed to pneumonia and while it was initially treated after a point the family supported by a caring GP allowed her to comfortably die at home rather than go into ICU and sit on a ventilator simply to prolong life at any cost. Her death wasn't a tragedy, she had 5 kids many grandkids and a great and varied life. Death in old age isn't a tragedy, it is part of life.

I don't think you will find many 85 year old people telling you their life is more important than a young person. I know when I get to that age if I am lucky enough I won't be.......

It is just a reality that all life is not equal.

stefanovich

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Choices about the value of human life are made all the time in our health system and it all boils down to measuring QALYs and weighing treatment cost v QALY outcome. Decisions not to treat very elderly and frail people are also taken all the time for compassionate reasons. Many frail elderly with Covid and other respiratory diseases are left to die as invasive treatment is considering inhumane. Taking an 85 year old with dementia and putting them on a ventilator with little chance of success isn't exactly humane.

My grandmother had severe dementia but physically strong. She caught a virus which progressed to pneumonia and while it was initially treated after a point the family supported by a caring GP allowed her to comfortably die at home rather than go into ICU and sit on a ventilator simply to prolong life at any cost. Her death wasn't a tragedy, she had 5 kids many grandkids and a great and varied life. Death in old age isn't a tragedy, it is part of life.

I don't think you will find many 85 year old people telling you their life is more important than a young person. I know when I get to that age if I am lucky enough I won't be.......

It is just a reality that all life is not equal.

What about disabled young people?

SnuggyBear

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I'll put it to you like this. I'm middle aged and I think a new born baby has more value than my life.

Well then I feel sorry for you.
All lives are equal. It is the basis that all our human rights and laws are built on.

stefanovich

bubblypop wrote: »

Well then I feel sorry for you.
All lives are equal. It is the basis that all our human rights and laws are built on.

So the value of life starts out very low, then becomes very high once you are born, then if you are a man becomes low again during your war fighting years, then goes back up when you are paying tax, then decreases again once you retire.

It’s almost as if your value is based on how useful you are to the government.

SnuggyBear

bubblypop wrote: »

Well then I feel sorry for you.
All lives are equal. It is the basis that all our human rights and laws are built on.

No need to feel sorry for me pal.
Here's a question for you. If you we're middle aged and had a new born son. For some reason you were given the choice to save your sons life or you die. Which would you chose?

AdamD

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I take it you're already in a relationship or you're asexual then? Because I've yet to hear anyone propose how anyone single is supposed to meet someone and date under social distancing. Well and good for you if you're in a bubble but touch starvation is hell for those who aren't and have been isolated in this manner for almost a year.

That's a huge part of this which nobody seems to be willing to acknowledge. Young, single people are f*cked. There was an article just this week about how young women are starting to worry about biological clocks in the context of social distancing being touted as some kind of long term "new normal" - how do you suggest people shack up in an era in which you're not supposed to get within two metres of anyone outside your family, ever?

That's the reason this long term doom mongering is f*cking with people. It's a ridiculous elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to acknowledge. The world is now divided into people who have an intimate partner in their covid bubble and people who don't, and for the latter category, the lack of any kind of hope is soul destroying. Spending a year talking to people on Tinder or Bumble and saying "we'll go for a pint or coffee and see how things go once we're allowed to meet strangers again" and having that become some kind of mystical, disappearing end game is massively f*cking with people.

If someone isn't in your bubble and you get within 2m of them, technically you've broken the rules. So if you meet up with someone from a dating app and your urges get the better of you and you end up kissing, you've now broken the rules. The rules say you can't do that. And in the absence of social venues being open and being able to talk to strangers without breaking the rules, apps are now the only way to even tentatively make a plan with someone to begin with.

In other words, if you've been single since March, either you've broken the rules or you haven't intimately touched another human being since then. And we're being told this is a long term reality? That simply isn't going to work, for anyone.

That's why social distancing is so despised. Humans are a sexual species and expecting people to abstain en masse from intimacy unless they were already with someone when all this started is simply insane the longer this situation goes on. That's why we need an exit strategy, and a better one than "we might just do social distancing for five years".

The people making these decisions are sheltered from the impact of them.

They are:
Middle aged with settled families
Own their own home
Social life revolves around their children and close family
Have taken no hit to their income
Still actually get to leave the house and have social interactions to do their job (TDs / NPHET)


Lockdown has a fraction of the impact on them as somebody under the age of 30

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Whatever about thinking restrictions should be lifted, this is a disgusting attitude.

All lives are equal, that's the whole basis of your human rights.

Anyone that thanked this should be ashamed.

Excuse me, but have you read my post in full? I was trying to convey how I feel, possibly as a result of being stuck inside for a year and also some realities that people do not want to accept.
Not all lives are equal, that’s another reality people in the western world don’t like to accept either. We all like to pretend we do in the new “super liberal” Ireland but it isn’t true. You might not like it, but it’s the way it is.
I’m 30 and suffering, but the 18 year olds stuck in their bedrooms at college are suffering, the parents working from home and homeschooling are suffering, front line workers are suffering. And for what? To protect the already infirm? All of us can’t have our own human rights and personal freedoms curtailed indefinitely in the name of keeping a few safe.

Ginger n Lemon

Just stumbled upon this thread. Which is great!

Thank you to whoever started it and particularly to people who shared their experiences over the last few pages.

I WFH. I have a safe job. I am in a relationship.

Yet I absolutely hate my life. Absolutely nothing to do, at all. No end in sight. Last year we had summer to look forward to to travel, then we had xmas to look forward to. I spend 90% + in my home every week..

What have we got to look forward to this year?? getting 50-100 eur PCR tests per person prior to departure and then another 1 prior to arriving back? (hoping they are negative throughout)

As many here have posted already - we are not living.

Also am I the only 1 who finds Gardai at the airport asking citizens where they are going and whether their travel is essential absolutely bizarre? Are we actually being fined for leaving our country and or returning back? Speechless stuff.

ujjjjjjjjj

AdamD wrote: »

The people making these decisions are sheltered from the impact of them.

They are:
Middle aged with settled families
Own their own home
Social life revolves around their children and close family
Have taken no hit to their income
Still actually get to leave the house and have social interactions to do their job (TDs / NPHET)


Lockdown has a fraction of the impact on them as somebody under the age of 30

Entirely agree......easy to make these decisions when it doesn't have any impact at all on the core components of their lives.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Just stumbled upon this thread. Which is great!

Thank you to whoever started it and particularly to people who shared their experiences over the last few pages.

I WFH. I have a safe job. I am in a relationship.

Yet I absolutely hate my life. Absolutely nothing to do, at all. No end in sight. Last year we had summer to look forward to to travel, then we had xmas to look forward to. I spend 90% + in my home every week..

What have we got to look forward to this year?? getting 50-100 eur PCR tests per person prior to departure and then another 1 prior to arriving back? (hoping they are negative throughout)

As many here have posted already - we are not living.

Also am I the only 1 who finds Gardai at the airport asking citizens where they are going and whether their travel is essential absolutely bizarre? Are we actually being fined for leaving our country and or returning back? Speechless stuff.

Thanks for posting this, I knew I wasn’t alone LOL
The devil makes work for idle hands but even he can’t occupy us in this one. There’s feck all to do and we can’t even get to a beach or a forest for a walk without getting stopped by a Garda and having them threaten us.
Absolutely scandalous stuff at the airport too. I’d have thought with the little Gardai we have we would have bigger problems to worry about.
Again, I still can’t fathom the logic if I test negative before I go, and test negative when I land back here what the problem is? Again, another reality that escapes the Irish government.

ujjjjjjjjj

stefanovich wrote: »

What about disabled young people?

Disabled is a huge broad term covering everything from very mild disability, e.g losing a finger or having a weak leg to someone requiring 24 hour care and perhaps with very short life expectancy.

I think you will find healthcare and ethical decisions are made on pretty much the same grounds trying to balance treatment costs, invasiveness, remaining qaly score and chance of success and kindness and in many cases also considering personal and family wishes too.

No easy answers to this and every situation is unique.

beggars_bush

stefanovich wrote: »

My wife cuts her own hair and mine. People shouldn’t be so vain.

As do I.
My wife gets her hair done maybe every 6 months so she's not bothered

stefanovich

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Just stumbled upon this thread. Which is great!

Thank you to whoever started it and particularly to people who shared their experiences over the last few pages.

I WFH. I have a safe job. I am in a relationship.

Yet I absolutely hate my life. Absolutely nothing to do, at all. No end in sight. Last year we had summer to look forward to to travel, then we had xmas to look forward to. I spend 90% + in my home every week..

What have we got to look forward to this year?? getting 50-100 eur PCR tests per person prior to departure and then another 1 prior to arriving back? (hoping they are negative throughout)

As many here have posted already - we are not living.

Also am I the only 1 who finds Gardai at the airport asking citizens where they are going and whether their travel is essential absolutely bizarre? Are we actually being fined for leaving our country and or returning back? Speechless stuff.

The new normal. Depressing.

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for posting this, I knew I wasn’t alone LOL
The devil makes work for idle hands but even he can’t occupy us in this one. There’s feck all to do and we can’t even get to a beach or a forest for a walk without getting stopped by a Garda and having them threaten us.
Absolutely scandalous stuff at the airport too. I’d have thought with the little Gardai we have we would have bigger problems to worry about.
Again, I still can’t fathom the logic if I test negative before I go, and test negative when I land back here what the problem is? Again, another reality that escapes the Irish government.

Thats a very interesting and valid question.

Proving once again that common sense has left the building a long time ago.

They impose lockdown on basis of high cases from positive PCR tests. Yet ignore the negative tests completely with regards to travel?

JMNolan

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats a very interesting and valid question.

Proving once again that common sense has left the building a long time ago.

They impose lockdown on basis of high cases from positive PCR tests. Yet ignore the negative tests completely with regards to travel?

Ah come on, the reasons are obvious. If you have any symptoms then you might have covid, or if you have no symptoms you might have covid, or if you test positive you might have covid, or if you test negative you might have covid. If you have recovered from covid you might have covid. If you have been vaccinated you might have covid. Preventing covid deaths is all that matters, the main thing is you must die from something else (although if you have had covid recently it means you are a covid related death).

degsie

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Also am I the only 1 who finds Gardai at the airport asking citizens where they are going and whether their travel is essential absolutely bizarre? Are we actually being fined for leaving our country and or returning back? Speechless stuff.

Am I the only one who thinks that international travel in the middle of a global pandemic is ok a bit bizarre?

Lundstram

They say PCR tests arent 100% reliable hence the quarantine.

Negative result = Ah sure could be false, go lock yourself for two weeks.

Positive result = Stick that into the daily case figures immediately.

JMNolan

degsie wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks that international travel in the middle of a global pandemic is ok a bit bizarre?

Indeed, international and national travel is bizarre. I myself haven't travelled outside my room since last march. As I have no symptoms I might still have covid. All makes perfect sense.