When will it all end?

Mr. Karate

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I do agree that its absolutely bizarre we have public servants with 200,000 per year salary, 150,000 per year salary etc. while average Joe is on 350 euros per week.

Is M Martin and Leo doing anything truly spectacular on day to day basis? Or even remotely spectacular? For the last 6 months all I saw on the news is "Northern Ireland is entering lockdown, a statement from M Martin will follow today"

and ofcourse

"I am actually surprised some of the pubs are still closed in our country" Leo in August 2020.


Bizarre.

Its absolutely insane what they get paid in a Country this sized. And they're doing nothing to lead people out of this. Martin can only mumble "Maybe next year" when asked about normality returning and Varadkar talks out of both sides out of his mouth. Saying one instant that it will. And that Normality is a long way off the next.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Schools are not even open in England
Things are not nearly back to normal.
Europe is not nearly back to normal!

Below an article on situation in different countries, it certainly doesn’t seem like business as usual.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexledsom/2021/01/17/january-eu-travel-restrictions-by-country-quarantine-and-tests-as-covid-19-third-wave-surges/

d161

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Clinical trial to begin to test Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine efficacy among children
Researchers will use 300 volunteers to assess whether the jab - known as the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine - will produce a strong immune response in children aged between six and 17.

It doesn't say exactly how long the trial is expected to last but they did say "Professor Jonathan Van-Tam told ITV News: "It is perfectly possible that we will have some licensed children's vaccines for Covid-19 by the end of the year.""

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0213/1196918-covid-19-vaccine/

This is good news. Moving towards vaccinating everyone into next year.

I think you'll find that a significant number of parents will be slow to vaccinate their children.
Personally, I encouraged my elderly mother to be vaccinated (she volunteers in a care home) and she has been but I think I will wait a few years before allowing my children to be vaccinated. I realise this will have consequences and we probably won't be able to travel abroad.

My kids are fully vaccinated up to now but when my oldest daughter was offered the HPV vaccine, several other parents refused it due to (I would consider tenuous) links to chronic fatigue syndrome.
My partner and myself thought long and hard about it. I don't recall the exact details but my recollection was that there were 2 vaccines in wide spread use and that one of them, the one used here, had some bad press.
We would have preferred if the vaccines had been in use for a longer time frame but decided in favour of the vaccines as a much lesser risk than cervical cancer.

I cannot say the same about Covid 19. I honestly do not feel that my kids are at risk if they catch it. My partner and myself, slightly higher risk from covid but generally we are in good health.

So, while I think the likelihood of an adverse reaction to the vaccine is low, we will probably wait a few years before allowing our kids to be vaccinated.

Ginger n Lemon

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Its absolutely insane what they get paid in a Country this sized. And they're doing nothing to lead people out of this. Martin can only mumble "Maybe next year" when asked about normality returning and Varadkar talks out of both sides out of his mouth. Saying one instant that it will. And that Normality is a long way off the next.

I hate flip flopping Leo the most. Its just like if you dont know just stay quiet. They have this uncontrollable urge to speak and its really sad of what actually comes out.

If any politician in our government comes out and says hes taking a 10% voluntary paycut that is a guy that would win my respect straight away. Solidarity is something that is literally unheard of in our country, its all bout "we are all in this together" nonsense talk

aido79

bubblypop wrote: »

Schools are not even open in England
Things are not nearly back to normal.
Europe is not nearly back to normal!

A lot of people on here seem to see this kind of thing on Facebook and without reading any further than the headline think that Ireland is the only place with draconian measures at the minute.
There's a lot of talk that Poland is opening up but outside of Facebook there is very little evidence of this. The same with Italy. There are parts of Italy where restrictions have been eased but there still remains huge numbers of restaurants and pubs closed and a curfew is in place nationwide.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

So everyone would be happy if we open up next week with a curfew from 7pm to 7am?

Is that a serious question? Of course!

its not a curfew in the sense that people have to stay in their house. It means that places have to close and that you stay local. So basically what we have now but with places open in the day,

Its the approach that plenty of counties have taken

El_Duderino 09

d161 wrote: »

I think you'll find that a significant number of parents will be slow to vaccinate their children.
Personally, I encouraged my elderly mother to be vaccinated (she volunteers in a care home) and she has been but I think I will wait a few years before allowing my children to be vaccinated. I realise this will have consequences and we probably won't be able to travel abroad.

My kids are fully vaccinated up to now but when my oldest daughter was offered the HPV vaccine, several other parents refused it due to (I would consider tenuous) links to chronic fatigue syndrome.
My partner and myself thought long and hard about it. I don't recall the exact details but my recollection was that there were 2 vaccines in wide spread use and that one of them, the one used here, had some bad press.
We would have preferred if the vaccines had been in use for a longer time frame but decided in favour of the vaccines as a much lesser risk than cervical cancer.

I cannot say the same about Covid 19. I honestly do not feel that my kids are at risk if they catch it. My partner and myself, slightly higher risk from covid but generally we are in good health.

So, while I think the likelihood of an adverse reaction to the vaccine is low, we will probably wait a few years before allowing our kids to be vaccinated.

Oh yes, anti (covid) vax people will cause a problem and slow the whole thing down. That has to be factored into the whole thing. The more people who do as you're suggesting, the more transmissions there will be and the more time it will take to get back to normal. But we can't do anything about that except hope you're in a very small minority.

d161

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh yes, anti (covid) vax people will cause a problem and slow the whole thing down. That has to be factored into the whole thing. The more people who do as you're suggesting, the more transmissions there will be and the more time it will take to get back to normal. But we can't do anything about that except hope you're in a very small minority.

I expected that you would prefer to discount me as anti vaxer (anti covid vax).
That's why I stated that I encouraged my mother to get it and I've suggested the same to several elderly relatives and my partner has said the same to her elderly parents. I think anybody who is vulnerable should get the vaccine.

The data backs up my assertion that Covid is very unlikely to be dangerous to my children so I don't see any reason not to wait a few years.

Incidentally, during my early working career, I travelled extensively in Africa and was given every vaccine available at the time.

Mr. Karate

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I hate flip flopping Leo the most. Its just like if you dont know just stay quiet. They have this uncontrollable urge to speak and its really sad of what actually comes out.

I do too. It shows they have no idea what they're doing. And have no plan what so ever.

If any politician in our government comes out and says hes taking a 10% voluntary paycut that is a guy that would win my respect straight away. Solidarity is something that is literally unheard of in our country, its all bout "we are all in this together" nonsense talk

Definitely. A pay cut should be mandatory in a "National Emergency". You can bet they won't be so quick to declare one and make sure it only goes on for as long as possible.

irishguitarlad

Just on Europe coming back to normal, I live in Seville and everything considered non-essential is now open until their normal closing time in except for bars and restaurants which have to close at 6. You can also travel all over Andalucia(which is massive) but you can't go to another autonomous region. There is a curfew from 22.00 to 06.00 and schools, univeristies, gyms are open and contact sports are allowed as long as its out in the open. Language schools are also open. So yeah it's more back to normal than Ireland definitely.

Ginger n Lemon

aido79 wrote: »

A lot of people on here seem to see this kind of thing on Facebook and without reading any further than the headline think that Ireland is the only place with draconian measures at the minute.
There's a lot of talk that Poland is opening up but outside of Facebook there is very little evidence of this. The same with Italy. There are parts of Italy where restrictions have been eased but there still remains huge numbers of restaurants and pubs closed and a curfew is in place nationwide.

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just on Europe coming back to normal, I live in Seville and everything considered non-essential is now open until their normal closing time in except for bars and restaurants which have to close at 6. You can also travel all over Andalucia(which is massive) but you can't go to another autonomous region. There is a curfew from 22.00 to 06.00 and schools, univeristies, gyms are open and contact sports are allowed as long as its out in the open. Language schools are also open. So yeah it's more back to normal than Ireland definitely.

Yes.

Theboinkmaster

Lundstram wrote: »

And what about the vast majority of the population who don’t have school going children? I’m not willing to be subjected to a draconian curfew for the sake of your and other peoples children.

I want to see schools back but no way in hell would I agree to a curfew for that to happen.

Harsh maybe, but I don’t care enough about yours or anyone else’s offspring.

But where would you be going at 7pm in a level 5 lockdown?!

Myself and my family and under level 5 lockdown to protect the vulnerable in society. COVID-19 doesn't really impact us - but we are being asked to make sacrifices for the greater good.

Children not being in school is a vulnerable situation that should be protected so yes I'd ask others to make a sacrifice to protect them.

It's about the greater good of society no selfish attitudes.

Maybe make the curfew 9pm? It's all subjective but yes I'd agree with some kind of curfew to allow vulnerable children back to school.

Where would you be going at 9pm in level 5 :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

d161 wrote: »

I expected that you would prefer to discount me as anti vaxer (anti covid vax).
That's why I stated that I encouraged my mother to get it and I've suggested the same to several elderly relatives and my partner has said the same to her elderly parents. I think anybody who is vulnerable should get the vaccine.

The data backs up my assertion that Covid is very unlikely to be dangerous to my children so I don't see any reason not to wait a few years.

Incidentally, during my early working career, I travelled extensively in Africa and was given every vaccine available at the time.

The one thing I've learned about anti vax people it that most of them are pretty quick to tell you why they're not anti vax. Reminds me of the trope of the taxi driver telling you "I'm not being racist when i say this, but....".

Sure, you have your reasons for not wanting your children to get the Covid vaccine. And whatever your reasons are (they don't matter to me), the effect will be the same. And the more people who do as you say you'll do, the more transmissions there will be and the longer it will take to get back towards normal.

You've made clear that it probably wouldn't effect your children but I presume we both know that it's more about making sure people get vaccinated, not just so they don't get sick themselves, but so they kill the virus sooner and don't transmit the virus to as many people. The anti (Covid) vax people all seem to not understand that point.

hynesie08

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

But where would you be going at 7pm in a level 5 lockdown?!

Myself and my family and under level 5 lockdown to protect the vulnerable in society. COVID-19 doesn't really impact us - but we are being asked to make sacrifices for the greater good.

Children not being in school is a vulnerable situation that should be protected so yes I'd ask others to make a sacrifice to protect them.

It's about the greater good of society no selfish attitudes.

Maybe make the curfew 9pm? It's all subjective but yes I'd agree with some kind of curfew to allow vulnerable children back to school.

Where would you be going at 9pm in level 5 :rolleyes:

Food shopping, it's great because all the parents are stuck at home so the shop is quiet.

Tazz T

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He said there will be a lockdown next winter? What exactly did he say?

He said "My best guess ... is that we’ll have a relatively normal summer in that the shops will be open, personal services will be open and domestic tourism will be a real possibility. And potentially outdoor gatherings of 10 to 15 people, maybe even 50 but nothing beyond that until we have a critical mass vaccinated of 70 to 80 per cent; we’re aiming for September for that.

“There is still a worry about next winter because it does seem there’s a seasonal element to this virus. People are indoors more and you’re 20 times more likely to get it indoors than out. So there will be a concern about a fourth wave of some sort next winter and there will be huge caution about allowing mass gatherings until we get through another winter."
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/leo-varadkar-i-want-to-make-sure-this-pandemic-is-a-lost-year-not-a-lost-decade-1.4480399

He said there's a concern about next winter - not that there will be a lockdown next winter.

He's probably right here (for once). There'll be certainly be a blip given the seasonality of the disease. The elderly that are being vaxxed now will probably be due a booster, in the same way as the flu jab operates at that time of year.

aido79

Mr. Karate wrote: »

I do too. It shows they have no idea what they're doing. And have no plan what so ever.



Definitely. A pay cut should be mandatory in a "National Emergency". You can bet they won't be so quick to declare one and make sure it only goes on for as long as possible.

Is this all in your expert opinion?
Whose pay do you think should be cut and what effect do you really think think it would have?
Most of your posts just sound like childish rants so I'd have my doubts that you have the knowledge or expertise required to make any serious decisions that would make things better in the long run. It's so easy to say just open everything up but wearing the consequences of that decision is a hard thing to do if it results in more people dying than would have if a safer option was chosen.

aido79

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yes.

Yes what?

Theboinkmaster

hynesie08 wrote: »

Food shopping, it's great because all the parents are stuck at home so the shop is quiet.

hmm...

Let people buy food after 9pm at night -vs- 1m children back to school

Tough decision

Ginger n Lemon

aido79 wrote: »

Yes what?

Yes Ireland does seem to have the draconian restrictions for longest out of all EU, and harshest.

"Ireland comes seventh out of 186 nations measured for lockdown severity.

The only other counties with similar limits on citizens are Eritrea, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Honduras and Argentina."

The data is compiled by Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government in the UK.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/ireland-one-strictest-coronavirus-lockdowns-22900565

I know you thought its pretty bad elsewhere, but it really isnt, not in Europe anyways. Unless you were comparing our lockdown to Venezuala, Peru and Chile?

There is another study showing Ireland spending 121 days in lockdown in 2020, do you want me to dig that one out? Yes the longest in Europe in 2020.


PS are you deliberately ignoring the poster from Seville? You dont trust posters here?

hynesie08

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

hmm...

Let people buy food after 9pm at night -vs- 1m children back to school

Tough decision

Not for me, 9pm shopping all day.

d161

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The one thing I've learned about anti vax people it that most of them are pretty quick to tell you why they're not anti vax. Reminds me of the trope of the taxi driver telling you "I'm not being racist when i say this, but....".

Will I scan my yellow book and send it to you?

Sure, you have your reasons for not wanting your children to get the Covid vaccine. And whatever your reasons are (they don't matter to me), the effect will be the same. And the more people who do as you say you'll do, the more transmissions there will be and the longer it will take to get back towards normal.

Yes my reasons are simple. There is no health reason for them to take the vaccine yet. We already have booster vaccines, so why not wait and see how it goes for a year or two.

I don't believe sufficient people will decline vaccines to slow re-opening.
Re-opening will happen either when the money runs out or when sufficient numbers of the people at risk of hospitalization are vaccinated, i.e people aged 50-70.

You've made clear that it probably wouldn't effect your children but I presume we both know that it's more about making sure people get vaccinated, not just so they don't get sick themselves, but so they kill the virus sooner and don't transmit the virus to as many people. The anti (Covid) vax people all seem to not understand that point.

Perhaps some believe they'll be getting a micro chip to improve their 5G reception. But I think it's foolish to put everybody slow to vaccinate in that camp.

You think this virus will ever be eradicated? Really!

I do believe we'll be forced at some stage to get vaccinated but I don't agree with that approach.

Theboinkmaster

hynesie08 wrote: »

Not for me, 9pm shopping all day.

So you think keeping 1m kids at home is worth it so you can do your food shopping after 9pm?

Maybe that suits you personally but do you really think it's for the greater good of society?

Obviously i don't :cool:

Ladylouth

Patches oHoulihan wrote: »

I have done the right thing through this whole thing. THe only person that has been in my house since lock downs started is my mother in law on CHristmas day.
She in 76 and was/is coocooning so we knew no risk.

Last saturday I heard laughing coming from the house behind mine.
I looked over and there was about 10 owlones in the kitchen across the way, drinking and having a rare oul time. Now these were all 60s plus, I know the woman that lives there, so must have been all of her mates.
Now one part of me is like for **** sake I am giving up my life to protect these old people and there they are having the craic. The other part is like its a few women having a few drinks. Its madness the way this virus is making us think.

I am tired of staying at home now. I am going to stop staying at home now. I am going to live my life and take my chances. I will stay away from older people and still wear a mask in shops etc but I am not doing this anymore. There is 1000 people a day getting this virus- How? Why should we stay at home and do the work for these *****?
I am at breaking point.

In my view, the 'ould ones' are right. A lot of them are fed up as we are of all this nonsense. An elderly neighbour has said to me that this is existing, not living. If this virus is to be with us in the longer term, we have to be allowed to manage our own risks at some stage. Younger people have been thrown under this bus for long enough.

Theboinkmaster

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

So you think keeping 1m kids at home is worth it so you can do your food shopping after 9pm?

Maybe that suits you personally but do you really think it's for the greater good of society?

Obviously i don't :cool:

So, it's:

- Level 5 / 5km restrictions to protect the elderly
- Evening curfew to protect the kids

Anything else while we're at it?

aido79

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yes Ireland does seem to have the draconian restrictions for longest out of all EU, and harshest.

"Ireland comes seventh out of 186 nations measured for lockdown severity.

The only other counties with similar limits on citizens are Eritrea, Venezuela, Peru, Chile, Honduras and Argentina."

The data is compiled by Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government in the UK.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/ireland-one-strictest-coronavirus-lockdowns-22900565

I know you thought its pretty bad elsewhere, but it really isnt, not in Europe anyways. Unless you were comparing our lockdown to Venezuala, Peru and Chile?

There is another study showing Ireland spending 121 days in lockdown in 2020, do you want me to dig that one out? Yes the longest in Europe in 2020.


PS are you deliberately ignoring the poster from Seville? You dont trust posters here?

And what happened at Christmas when restrictions were eased only slightly?

I'm not ignoring anyone but I don't like how people cherry pick certain places that have less restrictions and automatically assume that the measures used in that particular place would work for Ireland too. Would you agree that climate seems to play a part in increased spread of covid19?

Theboinkmaster

Deleted User wrote: »

So, it's:

- Level 5 / 5km restrictions to protect the elderly
- Evening curfew to protect the kids

Anything else while we're at it?

A lot of European countries have curfews as part of restrictions, which allows more opening up than what we have right now so yeah I think it would have made sense.

Sure doesn't matter now, COVID is almost over

Ladylouth

Nermal wrote: »

Sure.

Red wristband: no restrictions apply to you, blue wristband wearers have absolute medical priority over you.

Blue wristband: you must follow all restrictions to the letter, you have absolute priority over red wristband holders in the allocation of medical resources for the duration of restrictions, and all COVID-related expenditure will be recouped from your income and wealth over the next decade.

Wristband or no wristband, it'll all be paid for from your income/wealth over the next decade and beyond!

El_Duderino 09

d161 wrote: »

Will I scan my yellow book and send it to you?


Yes my reasons are simple. There is no health reason for them to take the vaccine yet. We already have booster vaccines, so why not wait and see how it goes for a year or two.

I don't believe sufficient people will decline vaccines to slow re-opening.
Re-opening will happen either when the money runs out or when sufficient numbers of the people at risk of hospitalization are vaccinated, i.e people aged 50-70.


Perhaps some believe they'll be getting a micro chip to improve their 5G reception. But I think it's foolish to put everybody slow to vaccinate in that camp.

You think this virus will ever be eradicated? Really!

I do believe we'll be forced at some stage to get vaccinated but I don't agree with that approach.

Yellow book? I don't follow.

I didn't say I think the virus will be eradicated. I didn't even suggest anything about virus eradication. Where did you even get that from?

Of course i put all the people who wont get the vaccine in the same camp, the "won't get the vaccine" camp. All the anti vax people have their reasons and they don't really matter to me. The effect will be to increase transmissions (even though the children themselves will likely by asymptomatic, the vaccine will likely ensure they are contagious for a shorter time and will likely spread the virus to fewer people as a result. And the fewer transmissions, the sooner we can move back towards normal. I'm not sure if you don't get that point or you get it and you don't care. The end result is the same and the more people who do as you suggest you'll do, the longer it will take to get back towards normal.

Let's just hope that you're in a very small minority and they only prolong the thing for a small while.

You'd think the people who want to open up sooner, would be critical of the people who's actions will actively prolong the reopening. But they all seem to not really care about it.

Parachutes

What the hell are curfews going to do anyway? It just means more people will be in the supermarket before 7, 8 or till whatever time the covid decides it wants to infect people. The madness continues.

irishguitarlad

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Just on Europe coming back to normal, I live in Seville and everything considered non-essential is now open until their normal closing time in except for bars and restaurants which have to close at 6. You can also travel all over Andalucia(which is massive) but you can't go to another autonomous region. There is a curfew from 22.00 to 06.00 and schools, univeristies, gyms are open and contact sports are allowed as long as its out in the open. Language schools are also open. So yeah it's more back to normal than Ireland definitely.

Sounds fantastic, definitely very different to here.