Guinness SIX Nations 2021

Rugby4568

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

What's your point?

Nothing it’s just an interesting fact

thomond2006

Kicking isn't an issue for Ben Healy but the rest of his game certainly is. He is way off being a starter at international level.

Rugby4568

thomond2006 wrote: »

Kicking isn't an issue for Ben Healy but the rest of his game certainly is. He is way off being a starter at international level.

Yeah true actually he’s only recognised because of his kicking he needs to improve other aspects of his game

Former Former Former

Ben Healy is currently second fiddle to JJ and people think he'd be getting capped for Scotland??

thomond2006

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Yeah true actually he’s only recognised because of his kicking he needs to improve other aspects of his game

and you're saying he would start for Scotland.

I see.

Rugby4568

thomond2006 wrote: »

and you're saying he would start for Scotland.

I see.

Am I allowed to change my opinion when you state a fact? Or do I have to be narrowed minded and not change my opinion no matter what?

Scratchly

Russell was the BBC man of the match for being the orchestrator of the win.

Did I watch a different match? Everything Russell contributed he counteracted. Yellow card for tripping giving England the chance to bring it back to a 2 point gap after dominating the first half, multiple missed kicks at goal, butchered the man advantage with a terrible cross field, multiple poor kicks for territory and then almost sabotages the team by going for a drop at the end for his own ego.

There was actually no difference to Scotland when Russell was in the bin. They worked their way into the English half, got a penalty and kicked to touch for a 5m scrum.

Rugby4568

Scratchly wrote: »

Russell was the BBC man of the match for being the orchestrator of the win.

Did I watch a different match? Everything Russell contributed he counteracted. Yellow card for tripping giving England the chance to bring it back to a 2 point gap after dominating the first half, multiple missed kicks at goal, butchered the man advantage with a terrible cross field, multiple poor kicks for territory and then almost sabotages the team by going for a drop at the end for his own ego.

There was actually no difference to Scotland when Russell was in the bin. They worked their way into the English half, got a penalty and kicked to touch for a 5m scrum.

I agree with you I didn’t think he played well, he made too many mistakes

sydthebeat

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Ben Healy must be very tempted to play for Scotland now. Would be a smart move for him he’d be playing international rugby straight away and getting more game time and money with Glasgow.

Stupid comment

Why would he be better tempted to play for Scotland behind a lions finn Russell, a 24 to Adam hastings and a 27 yo recently qualified jaco Vdw....

Ireland has an aging Sexton in his twilight and a rat race for his successor.

Healy is so much obviously better off in Ireland, before you start considering the basic day to day

Rugby4568

sydthebeat wrote: »

Stupid comment

Why would he be better tempted to play for Scotland behind a lions finn Russell, a 24 to Adam hastings and a 27 yo recently qualified jaco Vdw....

Ireland has an aging Sexton in his twilight and a rat race for his successor.

Healy is so much obviously better off in Ireland, before you start considering the basic day to day

He was third choice out half for Ireland u20s he couldn’t even make the match day squad when everyone was fit so I don’t think he’s the one to replace Sexton. Harry Byrne is a better player than Ben Healy imo

PMC83

sydthebeat wrote: »

Stupid comment

Why would he be better tempted to play for Scotland behind a lions finn Russell, a 24 to Adam hastings and a 27 yo recently qualified jaco Vdw....

Ireland has an aging Sexton in his twilight and a rat race for his successor.

Healy is so much obviously better off in Ireland, before you start considering the basic day to day

Lions Finn Russell? Didn't look like a lions pick tonight tbh, played like a total cowboy! Kicks going everywhere

Rugby4568

PMC83 wrote: »

Lions Finn Russell? Didn't look like a lions pick tonight tbh, played like a total cowboy! Kicks going everywhere

Exactly

lawrencesummers

Finn Russell doesn’t have the temperament, application or attitude to be a top top player.

He has more natural talent than any other OH in contention for the lions jersey but he doesn’t have an ounce of the ruthless, determined and win at all costs attitude that Owen Farrell or Sexton have.

It’s only a year ago he was sent home from international duty because he was on the Raz, refused to stop drinking and didn’t turn up for training.

He clearly doesn’t take his S&C work seriously and could have singlehandedly lost a game today that every other team member bust a gut winning.

What a completely selfish and unprofessional waste of an abundance of talent he is

PMC83

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Exactly

Don't get me wrong, I seriously doubt Healy would be tempted to Scotland over one good performance from the national side.

Rugby4568

PMC83 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I seriously doubt Healy would be tempted to Scotland over one good performance from the national side.

Same here. I just think it would be easier for him to get into the Scottish team than the Irish team as Ireland have way more talented out halves than Scotland do. We also have Harry Byrne, Jack Crowley and David Hawkshaw who can play out half too and they’re all similar age to Healy. Just think he’d find it easier to break into the Scotland team than the Irish team that’s all. Ireland have so much depth in outhalves that’s why I think it would be easier for him to get into the Scottish team.

sydthebeat

PMC83 wrote: »

Lions Finn Russell? Didn't look like a lions pick tonight tbh, played like a total cowboy! Kicks going everywhere

Doesn't matter... Ben Healy would be easily 4th choice for Scotland and no where near first choice for either of their club teams.

Is that a better place to be compared to vying with JJ hanrahan for first choice for munster behind a consistently injured joey carbery?

Anyone who says ben healy is better off in Scotland knows nothing, Jon snow...

Rugby4568

sydthebeat wrote: »

Doesn't matter... Ben Healy would be easily 4th choice for Scotland and no where near first choice for either of their club teams.

Is that a better place to be compared to vying with JJ hanrahan for first choice for munster behind a consistently injured joey carbery?

Anyone who says ben healy is better off in Scotland knows nothing, Jon snow...

Do you think he’s more likely to get game time for Ireland ?

PMC83

sydthebeat wrote: »

Doesn't matter... Ben Healy would be easily 4th choice for Scotland and no where near first choice for either of their club teams.

Is that a better place to be compared to vying with JJ hanrahan for first choice for munster behind a consistently injured joey carbery?

Anyone who says ben healy is better off in Scotland knows nothing, Jon snow...

Ok we'll gloss over your lions comment because it was probably heat of the moment. I agree he'd be no where near first choice for the Scottish national team, but you'd have to imagine he'd be knocking on the door for a start at Glasgow or Edinburgh if he got a decent run together. Neither exactly lighting the world up with amazing 10s. At worst he'd be number 2. If Joey gets fit at Munster hes right back to number 3.

lawrencesummers

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Do you think he’s more likely to get game time for Ireland ?

Nobody is getting any meaningful game time for Ireland as long as Sexton is around.

And only Johnny is deciding when Johnny isn’t going to be around any more.

I will be shocked the day that Sexton is fit but sits on the bench against a Tier 1 side. It’s a long way off

Tommybojangles

Rugby4568 wrote: »

I think Ben Healy is a very good player and is a better kicker than Russell. Healy would start for Scotland in my opinion and would of got those kicks that Hogg and Russell missed.

How did anyone even reply to this

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Nobody is getting any meaningful game time for Ireland until they demonstrate why they are better than Sexton

FYP there Lawrence!

sydthebeat

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Do you think he’s more likely to get game time for Ireland ?

At his level..


100%

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

FYP there Lawrence!

And who has been the best Irish OH since the seasons started back up? Il give you a clue - it’s not JS.


And why are they not getting a chance? Because sexton is undroppable.

So nobody is better, even though some have been playing better and nobody is getting a chance to show they are better because nobody is better.



Watch what happens against Italy.

If sexton is fit will he bench?

Curse These Metal Hands

Have to agree that the BBC's assessment of Russell's performance is ludicrous. Making errors like that against a team playing reasonably well would lead to disaster. He completely got away with not costing them the game.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And who has been the best Irish OH since the seasons started back up? Il give you a clue - it’s not JS.


And why are they not getting a chance? Because sexton is undroppable.

So nobody is better, even though some have been playing better and nobody is getting a chance to show they are better because nobody is better.



Watch what happens against Italy.

If sexton is fit will he bench?

I don't think Sexton has been at his best, I wouldn't pick any of the other options ahead of him for tomorrow even though I fear he could go off early.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is better and why?

Akrasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think Sexton has been at his best, I wouldn't pick any of the other options ahead of him for tomorrow even though I fear he could go off early.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is better and why?

I think this will be Sextons last season as 1st choice 10
I think he’ll play most or all of this 6N, some of the summer and autumn tests, and by this time next year there will be a New 1st choice 10. Part of this is because he is prone to injury, coming to his retirement age, and the other part is that competition is coming up from below. If Carbery returns and retains his form, he’ll be knocking at the door straight away, then the likes of Billy Burns, Carty, Madigan, Healy etc will all be viable options with test/HCup experience

Sexton will be in his late 30s at the next World Cup, we cannot possibly go into that tournament without at least one reliably fit experienced international fly half

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think Sexton has been at his best, I wouldn't pick any of the other options ahead of him for tomorrow even though I fear he could go off early.

I'd be interested to hear who you think is better and why?

Im just replying to your point that "nobody is getting game time until they are better"


I can understand Sexton starting, he has the highest level of all the Irish OH's currently available even though he clearly hasn't been playing at that level, but I would like to see another player given the decent chance.

We are a third place 6N team with ambition of top two, and a RWC QF team with ambitions of a SF. I don't think we can have our cake and eat it.

One of the Key positions on the pitch and we are hurtling towards a RWC without any meaningful succession plan.

Consider this, once this 6N ends we have about 15-20 games against tier 1 opposition before the RWC starts in which to blood an alternative.

In case anyone wants to enjoy again:

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Im just replying to your point that "nobody is getting game time until they are better"


I can understand Sexton starting, he has the highest level of all the Irish OH's currently available even though he clearly hasn't been playing at that level, but I would like to see another player given the decent chance.

We are a third place 6N team with ambition of top two, and a RWC QF team with ambitions of a SF. I don't think we can have our cake and eat it.

One of the Key positions on the pitch and we are hurtling towards a RWC without any meaningful succession plan.

Consider this, once this 6N ends we have about 15-20 games against tier 1 opposition before the RWC starts in which to blood an alternative.

That's fair enough.

What do you think is more important - winning the six nations / grand slam or giving game time to either Billy Burns or Ross Byrne?

I'm not sure either are going to be the starting outhalf for the world cup to be honest so I'm not sure what purpose giving either game time is, when it could cost us this tournament.

Boscoirl

Scotland were lucky they played England in the first round.

They will be a different kettle of fish when we play them in round 5

Buer

Boscoirl wrote: »

Scotland were lucky they played England in the first round.

They will be a different kettle of fish when we play them in round 5

Haven't read back over the thread but this is going to prove extremely accurate.

The Saracens players, for the most part, really lacked sharpness or fitness. Itoje is normally a force of nature but was that fraction off that led to him being whistled off the park. George and Vunipola were clearly ill prepared. Daly was mediocre. Farrell had one brilliant kick but clearly wasn't as active and influential as he normally is. Maitland was the exception but he was never really tested and his pack were on top throughout.

They'll all be fully sharpened by the final day. They'll also have someone like Lawes fully up to speed and won't keep Hill on the field as long if at all.

Where Ireland can make hay is in the three quarters. Scotland showed that Redpath was able to get over the gain line repeatedly in the first half. Henshaw should be utilised repeatedly. But I think England was going to bring Ford back and move Farrell to 12 after today.

Tomorrow will be interesting. There's a massive swing between what will happen if we win or lose tomorrow. Win and people will be touting us as tournament winners. Lose and we see potentially finishing 5th.

Burkie1203

Buer wrote: »

Haven't read back over the thread but this is going to prove extremely accurate.

The Saracens players, for the most part, really lacked sharpness or fitness. Itoje is normally a force of nature but was that fraction off that led to him being whistled off the park. George and Vunipola were clearly ill prepared. Daly was mediocre. Farrell had one brilliant kick but clearly wasn't as active and influential as he normally is. Maitland was the exception but he was never really tested and his pack were on top throughout.

They'll all be fully sharpened by the final day. They'll also have someone like Lawes fully up to speed and won't keep Hill on the field as long if at all.

Thats 2 week break in the GP when Europe got called off might not have been the best idea.

penybont exile

Don't you just love the 6N ...... even without the stadium atmosphere.


Great win for the Scots today ..... bettered England all over the park. Would have been a travesty if they'd contrived to blow it which could have happened on a couple of occasions towards the end.


Was a bit ambivalent towards this years tournament .... but that's changed today. Just off a few drinks with the lads back home .....nice to have a chat about the rugby after the crap we've all had to deal with this last year.


Hope it's a good game tomorrow ..... surely there can't be three away wins on match weekend 1!

Akrasia

The joy of watching Scotland is that they always have it in them to clutch defeat from the jaws of victory. Fair play to them today. They took the lead and kept it. The 6nations is undoubtedly the best annual international rugby tournament in the world (or at least the best in the world north of the equator)

flatface

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Finn Russell doesn’t have the temperament, application or attitude to be a top top player.

He has more natural talent than any other OH in contention for the lions jersey but he doesn’t have an ounce of the ruthless, determined and win at all costs attitude that Owen Farrell or Sexton have.

It’s only a year ago he was sent home from international duty because he was on the Raz, refused to stop drinking and didn’t turn up for training.

He clearly doesn’t take his S&C work seriously and could have singlehandedly lost a game today that every other team member bust a gut winning.

What a completely selfish and unprofessional waste of an abundance of talent he is

Reminds me of this I saw on hard work vs talent:

https://wisdomofcoaches.com/the-four-types-of-athletes-you-will-coach/

It’s stuck with me as I work in professional art and I see the same pattern with high talent/low work artists being the heart breakers. You see someone with crazy natural talent that never had to work hard for it and you can waste tons of time trying to get them to harness it successfully in a professional environment. Frustrating. I now see more value in the hard work element than an intoxicating talent.

joseywhales

I don't know the intoxicating talent can be good sometimes

Digifriendly

Buer wrote: »

Haven't read back over the thread but this is going to prove extremely accurate.

The Saracens players, for the most part, really lacked sharpness or fitness. Itoje is normally a force of nature but was that fraction off that led to him being whistled off the park. George and Vunipola were clearly ill prepared. Daly was mediocre. Farrell had one brilliant kick but clearly wasn't as active and influential as he normally is. Maitland was the exception but he was never really tested and his pack were on top throughout.

They'll all be fully sharpened by the final day. They'll also have someone like Lawes fully up to speed and won't keep Hill on the field as long if at all.

Where Ireland can make hay is in the three quarters. Scotland showed that Redpath was able to get over the gain line repeatedly in the first half. Henshaw should be utilised repeatedly. But I think England was going to bring Ford back and move Farrell to 12 after today.

Tomorrow will be interesting. There's a massive swing between what will happen if we win or lose tomorrow. Win and people will be touting us as tournament winners. Lose and we see potentially finishing 5th.

How was Itoje whistled off the park when there were no spectators? Also IMHO Daly was by far England's best performer on the pitch.

razorblunt

Digifriendly wrote: »

How was Itoje whistled off the park when there were no spectators? Also IMHO Daly was by far England's best performer on the pitch.

Whistled off the park refers to the referee not the fans.
Brace caught Itoje for quite a lot of the things he usually gets away with, saying that he still got away with a lot more and should have been carded (team yellow card not anything dangerous) in the second half.

pickarooney

joseywhales wrote: »

I don't know the intoxicating talent can be good sometimes

'Can be good sometimes' is utterly frustrating.
Like Finn Russell

baaba maal

Rugby4568 wrote: »

Nothing it’s just an interesting fact

On McKinley having only one eye. To be accurate (and I have heard Ian being interviewed where he makes this point to correct the interviewer)- he has both eyes, one is damaged so he is only sighted in one. I'm not adding this to be pedantic- it seems to be important to him for his situation to be reported accurately. As the eye was damaged playing rugby, and he went through that whole process of returning to the game with the development of the goggles etc. it is reasonable to highlight this on a rugby forum.

I'm actually enjoying his punditry, he has an assured presence and is willing to give an opinion (although him saying that he expected Italy and France to be close was optimistic to say the least!).

Somebody else mentioned that he lacked generosity in comparing Burns with Byrne. I think he did his job properly- he is himself an experienced ten asked to comment on two possible incumbents for the Ireland role and he gave a clear opinion.

fryup

would scotland have won in a full stadium ?

what do you rugby people think or is it academic ?

stephen_n

baaba maal wrote: »

Somebody else mentioned that he lacked generosity in comparing Burns with Byrne. I think he did his job properly- he is himself an experienced ten asked to comment on two possible incumbents for the Ireland role and he gave a clear opinion.

I didn’t see this, what was his view on that?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We've beaten Italy by similar margins on numerous occasions of late. It was a good performance and France have improved a lot, but if we go well tomorrow and I have a sneaking suspicion we will - then I wouldn't have France more than a 50/50 coming over here.

France will beat the green off us.

This place has an obscene belief in this Irish setup.

clsmooth

[Deleted User] wrote: »

France will beat the green off us.

This place has an obscene belief in this Irish setup.

Not sure about that. They could well do. In Paris I’d expect them too. But it’s hard to travel away from home and win, and we don’t lose at home often. Has anyone else but England and New Zealand beaten us there in the last 5 years?

OldRio

Just saw this up. It's border line criminal. A 7 on 3 with the defending team down to 14..


https://twitter.com/Toolan82/status/1358215455756804096?s=20

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^

what am i looking at?

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

That's fair enough.

What do you think is more important - winning the six nations / grand slam or giving game time to either Billy Burns or Ross Byrne?

I'm not sure either are going to be the starting outhalf for the world cup to be honest so I'm not sure what purpose giving either game time is, when it could cost us this tournament.

Considering I think we have zero chance of winning the tournament it would be developing alternatives to Cian Healy and Sexton. Bedding in a first choice second row, giving Keenan experience at 15, working on who replaces Earls, who our second choice 9 is and who our first choice Hooker is.

Fine the 6N is still within our control so we should field our best team, I can see that, but if we are not in a position to win the championship those things listed above should be the secondary target that we go after, unfortunately we probably won’t.

Third and fourth doesn’t make any difference, but gaining experience and blooding players does.

LuckyLloyd

Starting all of Earls, Sexton, Murray, Healy, O'Mahony and Stander is obscene. There is obviously zero long term vision or plan. All leading up to being embarrassed at another world cup. It's beyond frustrating.

thomond2006

OldRio wrote: »

Just saw this up. It's border line criminal. A 7 on 3 with the defending team down to 14..


https://twitter.com/Toolan82/status/1358215455756804096?s=20

Yikes, that's a walk-in.

sydthebeat

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

what am i looking at?

Owen farrell has possession near the halfway line and has six of his attackers outside him.... Facing up against two defenders.

Playing "heads up" rugby would demand that you keep the ball in hand and "draw and pass" your way through