Time to embrace Unionism?

truth and logic

We should join the Chinese Belt and Road.

We'd gain an advantage by being an early mover. Other countries in Europe have already joined, like Italy for example.

China is the future. We should join now.

I'm serious about this. Ireland should make the very difficult decision now to recognise that China is the future, and that we should join them. I'm so proud of China for their vision for the future. None of this is sarcastic by the way, I genuinely think that China is the future. The US has failed.

Haraldkare

Haraldkare wrote: »

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

Nonsense. Ireland investigates these matters, others don't. The UK has shut down investigation into Kincora and other homes, and their colonial offices burnt their incriminating evidence when they left.

Don't expect much to come out of Epstein either in the US. Maybe in 100 years or so.

truth and logic

truth and logic wrote: »

We should join the Chinese Belt and Road.

We'd gain an advantage by being an early mover. Other countries in Europe have already joined, like Italy for example.

China is the future. We should join now.

I'm serious about this. Ireland should make the very difficult decision now to recognise that China is the future, and that we should join them. I'm so proud of China for their vision for the future. None of this is sarcastic by the way, I genuinely think that China is the future. The US has failed.

We should get involved in the BRI. I wouldn't necessarily adopt their social system though.

WrenBoy

truth and logic wrote: »

We should join the Chinese Belt and Road.

We'd gain an advantage by being an early mover. Other countries in Europe have already joined, like Italy for example.

China is the future. We should join now.

I'm serious about this. Ireland should make the very difficult decision now to recognise that China is the future, and that we should join them. I'm so proud of China for their vision for the future. None of this is sarcastic by the way, I genuinely think that China is the future. The US has failed.

I too love to be ruled.

tonbinn

Very obvious, even amongst some of the tongue-in-cheak comments here, that irish mindset is one that is stiil deeply apprehensive about being independent, even after 100 years of independence in the south. It's always "who will we hitch ourselves to?" instead of which way do we want to go ourselves. The dependency/mammy syndrome is actually nauseating to listen to, whether on mainstream media or just the chatter you hear on the street. Everything is benchmarked against "the UK", the uk, the uk, the uk until you want to throw up. "Stepping into line with...", listen to an RTE news programme and tell me how many times you hera that phrase.

Over the last few years (probably going back to Harney, Bertie and McCreevy) the mother England obsession has been duplicated with aping American greed at every turn. We even have a nightly report of "the latest from Washington" eventhough we live ona different continent and are in a different trading block. No news from Brussels although we are at least 50% ruled from their now. My inlaws are Portuguese and they find it absolutely bizarre. "What's the obsession with America?" - if I've been asked that once, I've been asked 1000s of times.

I put it down to the loss of the language, everyone hear just sucks in imported American and English crap from all sides because there is no natural barrier. Mention of indiginous Irish culture like the music or even the language is often met with resistance or sneering- a deeply worrying trait (at a cultural/psycological level) that in practice seems to manifest as an inability to think for ourselves. As a collective nation. The deeper problems in Irish society will never be solved until we stop aping and cloning from 2 countries that are completely different societies and also failed. We need to look at our own unique circumstances and make independent decisions based thereon.

Salmon Leap

Join with the likes of Sammy Wilson, Jeffrey Donaldson and Arlene Foster???????

Sorry, but what planet did you beam down from?

WrenBoy

tonbinn wrote: »

Very obvious, even amongst some of the tongue-in-cheak comments here, that irish mindset is one that is stiil deeply apprehensive about being independent, even after 100 years of independence in the south. It's always "who will we hitch ourselves to?" instead of which way do we want to go ourselves. The dependency/mammy syndrome is actually nauseating to listen to, whether on mainstream media or just the chatter you hear on the street. Everything is benchmarked against "the UK", the uk, the uk, the uk until you want to throw up. "Stepping into line with...", listen to an RTE news programme and tell me how many times you hera that phrase.

Over the last few years (probably going back to Harney, Bertie and McCreevy) the mother England obsession has been duplicated with aping American greed at every turn. We even have a nightly report of "the latest from Washington" eventhough we live ona different continent and are in a different trading block. No news from Brussels although we are at least 50% ruled from their now. My inlaws are Portuguese and they find it absolutely bizarre. "What's the obsession with America?" - if I've been asked that once, I've been asked 1000s of times.

I put it down to the loss of the language, everyone hear just sucks in imported American and English crap from all sides because there is no natural barrier. Mention of indiginous Irish culture like the music or even the language is often met with resistance or sneering- a deeply worrying trait (at a cultural/psycological level) that in practice seems to manifest as an inability to think for ourselves. As a collective nation. The deeper problems in Irish society will never be solved until we stop aping and cloning from 2 countries that are completely different societies and also failed. We need to look at our own unique circumstances and make independent decisions based thereon.

Great post.

Hamsterchops

biko wrote: »

Join with UK. Stronger together!

If there's one thing I've learnt over the years it's that just because you have a group of tightly knit islands doesn't mean that they all sing from the same hymn sheet.

Indeed, as we currently stand Scotland is a dead cert to detach itself, followed by NI. Stronger together ideally, maybe during times of crisis?
but this group of islands is anything but stronger together.

We're very fragmented.

Tacitus Kilgore

Why is it that the eh... righties.... want to go back on the brit-tit?


Something about having common views with the brexit voting, 3 lions on a shirt wearing, tory voting, red faced, fat headed, pie eating, white exceptionalist, imperialist xenophobes? yeah, that'll probably be it.


There's plenty of room for unionists in Ireland - there's room for all views and creeds, but no room for joining the UK - not that it's going to exist in any recognisable manner for much longer.

Granadino

tonbinn wrote: »

Very obvious, even amongst some of the tongue-in-cheak comments here, that irish mindset is one that is stiil deeply apprehensive about being independent, even after 100 years of independence in the south. It's always "who will we hitch ourselves to?" instead of which way do we want to go ourselves. The dependency/mammy syndrome is actually nauseating to listen to, whether on mainstream media or just the chatter you hear on the street. Everything is benchmarked against "the UK", the uk, the uk, the uk until you want to throw up. "Stepping into line with...", listen to an RTE news programme and tell me how many times you hera that phrase.

Over the last few years (probably going back to Harney, Bertie and McCreevy) the mother England obsession has been duplicated with aping American greed at every turn. We even have a nightly report of "the latest from Washington" eventhough we live ona different continent and are in a different trading block. No news from Brussels although we are at least 50% ruled from their now. My inlaws are Portuguese and they find it absolutely bizarre. "What's the obsession with America?" - if I've been asked that once, I've been asked 1000s of times.

I put it down to the loss of the language, everyone hear just sucks in imported American and English crap from all sides because there is no natural barrier. Mention of indiginous Irish culture like the music or even the language is often met with resistance or sneering- a deeply worrying trait (at a cultural/psycological level) that in practice seems to manifest as an inability to think for ourselves. As a collective nation. The deeper problems in Irish society will never be solved until we stop aping and cloning from 2 countries that are completely different societies and also failed. We need to look at our own unique circumstances and make independent decisions based thereon.

A great post. Though I am in Spain at the moment, and there's a fair bit of US news every night on the tv as well. But I agree with you on the benchmarking. It's constantly, UK this, UK that, US this, US that. Who gives a f*ck.

Triangle

rossie1977 wrote: »

Given the popularity of the US Republican party on boards their Irish version (DUP) should really think about running in the 26 counties and just remove the allegiance to the queen stuff.

We have a couple of Irish nationalist (I. E. Anti Europe) parties at present.
You should look up the parties manifestos to see what they believe in.
I was amazed at how conservation some parties were in European parties and how anti eu others were - it's worth the research.

Haraldkare

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And pray thee tell, in what ways would we be better off if we were to pledge allegiance to Elizabeth?

Perhaps more accountability for the ruling party? I imagine the queen to crack the whip a bit harder than our president, if Fianna Fáil was before her.

TheValeyard

Haraldkare wrote: »

Perhaps more accountability for the ruling party? I imagine the queen to crack the whip a bit harder than our president, if Fianna Fáil was before her.

Ah yes because that's worked so well with Prince Andrew

BloodBath

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

I feel ashamed that a fellow countryman would post such drivel.

The gap between rich and poor is far greater in England and their welfare system far worse for those in need.

The Brits handling of Covid was even worse than ours btw. We handled it quite well in comparison.

Fred Cryton

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

Failed state? We're about to become the richest country in the world by GDP per capita by the end of next year. And you think we're a failed state.


Almost all of the top 10 most deprived regions in Western Europe are in the UK. one of them is Northern Ireland. We'd be joining them if they had the rule over us.

BloodBath

It really is the most dramatically stupid post I've seen on boards in a while.

Still referring to the Germans as Nazi's as well but has no problem with the Brits?

Got to be trolling.

mariaalice

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Failed state? We're about to become the richest country in the world by GDP per capita by the end of next year. And you think we're a failed state.


Almost all of the top 10 most deprived regions in Western Europe are in the UK. one of them is Northern Ireland. We'd be joining them if they had the rule over us.

No No that's not the way the narrative goes:P ..Its the governments are a disgrace or should be ashamed of themselves, the HSE is the worst health service in the world!!!! the education system is third world, what about the homeless, corruption, third-world infrastructure, you can't be telling people we are a wealthy country and that we are doing well for ourselves it does not fit the national psyche.

Tacitus Kilgore

mariaalice wrote: »

No No that's not the way the narrative goes:P ..Its the governments are a disgrace or should be ashamed of themselves, the HSE is the worst health service in the world!!!! the education system is third world, what about the homeless, corruption, third-world infrastructure, you can't be telling people we are a wealthy country and that we are doing well for ourselves it does not fit the national psyche.

Nothing wrong with striving to be better though,


Yeah, we are super rich as a country, it's class - but we could always do better in terms of distributing it a bit. Housing poverty is very much real - I'm in the upper-middle layer of salary - and my rent hoovers up an enormous amount of my take home, god help anyone not on good money trying to pay rent.


In the shortest way possible - we would have a hell of a lot more poverty if we had anything to do with the UK. They are excellent at it, just look at what they're giving kids for lunch. Half a fucking carrot ffs.

tonbinn

Those "rich country" statistics are the greatest pile of bull and not worthy of a gram of your attention. Even the mindset that defines how well a country is doing by looking at income per head shows how americanised and impoverished our thinking has become. The real indicators of prosperity are health, life expectancy, education, re-creation facilities, the state of the place around where you live, air quality, access to good food and so on. Quality of life really but you won't hear any card-carrying, market-driven FFer or FGer admitting to that.

The country has become one giant market where everything has a price and anything can be sold whether it belongs to you or not (see Corrib gas, Irish water, Coillte, propert-based vulture funds, etc) and has been relentlessly pushed dowm that path by decades of FF and FG greed-based government.

That said, for those who like to stick to the crude measurement of income per head, it totally ignores that we are the most endebted country in Europe. Salaries may be high but that is only a bone of the story. Any measure of wealth must include your debt and one figure I heard recently is that each Irish working person owes 100K euros. I didn't do the numbers but I'm sure it's not far off and a far more honest assessment. We are like a central American country in that regard and there's eejits going around trying to say we're rich. And that's before we talk about inequality, wrecked environment, no health service, eduaction in freefall, housing, homelessness, etc. I'll probably be accused of being negative now, it seems to be the standard retort in the New Matured Ireland for anyone who cries hault but the big Bertie-led experiment in greed and individualism that has been carefully nutured for 30 years now has turned the place into a dump.

CoBo55

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Do you get days off for going on parades? If so, sash me up.

:pac::pac: brilliant..

Lumen

Britain has some fine architecture and public spaces.

Other than that, we're grand.

Besides, I don't think we would get to do swapsies in the event of rejoining the Union.

BloodBath

tonbinn wrote: »

Those "rich country" statistics are the greatest pile of bull and not worthy of a gram of your attention. Even the mindset that defines how well a country is doing by looking at income per head shows how americanised and impoverished our thinking has become. The real indicators of prosperity are health, life expectancy, education, re-creation facilities, the state of the place around where you live, air quality, access to good food and so on. Quality of life really but you won't hear any card-carrying, market-driven FFer or FGer admitting to that.

The country has become one giant market where everything has a price and anything can be sold whether it belongs to you or not (see Corrib gas, Irish water, Coillte, propert-based vulture funds, etc) and has been relentlessly pushed dowm that path by decades of FF and FG greed-based government.

That said, for those who like to stick to the crude measurement of income per head, it totally ignores that we are the most endebted country in Europe. Salaries may be high but that is only a bone of the story. Any measure of wealth must include your debt and one figure I heard recently is that each Irish working person owes 100K euros. I didn't do the numbers but I'm sure it's not far off and a far more honest assessment. We are like a central American country in that regard and there's eejits going around trying to say we're rich. And that's before we talk about inequality, wrecked environment, no health service, eduaction in freefall, housing, homelessness, etc. I'll probably be accused of being negative now, it seems to be the standard retort in the New Matured Ireland for anyone who cries hault but the big Bertie-led experiment in greed and individualism that has been carefully nutured for 30 years now has turned the place into a dump.

Nobody is saying the country is perfect. For the majority of citizens it is far far better than the UK and most countries in the world. That's a fact.

You think the country has turned into a dump since Bertie? What was it before then?

tonbinn

It was on the thresh-hold of joining some of the other well established social democracies in Europe but then bertie and his mates chose the neo-liberal route of "the market is everything" and created a nation of rich and poor, educated and deprived. The result being the near abolition of some state services, others standing still or going backwards andwanton disregard for the biggest asset of all, our environment. It's an action-replay of the US but about 10 years behind which is when I returned from there. And believe me, it's not a good path to be on.

Johnny BGood

Why is it always ourselves extending the olive branch to unionists?
They simply have to drag themselves out of the “us vs the muns” mindset before we even give them the time of day.
Sick of my teeth the way the Irish government have been so far up their backside in regards to the goings on in the north, when the dup/uup and their “stakeholders” are the route of the problem.
I’m really not sure what they have to offer 21st century politics, even the British government are sick of them.

Tchaikovsky

Feisar wrote: »

Our infrastructure isn't a patch on their's. They were a powerhouse for such a long time, hard to make that up overnight.

Getting rich off of the backs of invading countries and stealing their natural resources did give them an advantage.

BloodBath

I don't agree. The UK is a nation of rich and poor. Ireland is far more balanced with opportunities that most people could only dream of.

Not educated? Take advantage of all the free education you could want.

How has the environment being impacted negatively since then apart from world wide problems?

Moving away from a reliance on farming cows/cattle for our economy into tech is surely a good thing?

Gatling

How bout we encourage them to become their own independent state , and them solve their own ****e they had sowed over the last 100 years ,

Lumen

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Getting rich off of the backs of invading countries and stealing their natural resources did give them an advantage.

What do we want? AN IRISH EMPIRE. When do we want it? 200 YEARS AGO.

Rodin

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

Catch yourself on...

TheIrishGrover

Haraldkare wrote: »

Is there room for a Unionist party in the Republic? Have we become a failed state?
The Brits said that we were not fit to govern ourselves. I grew up scoffing at this, and being pushed into the nationalist pride that every country shoves down the throats of its youth.

I find we Irish always like to include ourselves in matters, and now we are in a club with the Nazi's, Yugoslavs, Burmese, etc with mass killings of our own.

We have or are in the process of abandoning our church as the evils of the past fog any benefits it provided. Should we do the same with our state?

We were told of how progressive and booming a nation we are, but it seems it is only for the rich.
We are among the highest infections per capita and the slowest vaccine rollout. And a government that uses a national travesty to sneak former ministers back into work.

I sometimes think that the British were right. I think there are a lot of citizens in Ireland that would prefer to be run by Britain, but feel ashamed to admit it.

Now, I'm assuming this is a troll but hey, I'll bite.

Have.... have you SEEN British history?