Let's take a moment to talk about taxation

sameoldname

jcon1913 wrote: »

Tax take in Ireland relative to other countries is here



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio


The tax take in Ireland is approx 30% according to this list



Ireland compares well to the UK 34%, France 47.9% and Germany 44.5%, Italy 43.5%


I dont know what the OP is on about really.

To be fair, our GDP figures are meaningless due to the multinationals. You really need to use GNI* as a base to get some meaningful stats and even then it's debatable how accurate that is.

Lucifer

timmyntc wrote: »

Why a 35k salary?

On higher salaries you will start to see the big differences in Irish and other countries' taxation.

We have one of the lowest thresholds before the top rate of tax kicks in, and one of the highest marginal rates of tax in Europe

80,000
France 54906
Uk 54933
Spain 54024
Luxembourg 52008
Ireland 51889
AVERAGE 49679
Italy 48192
Germany 41607
Belgium 39873


120,000
Spain 76024
France 75402
Uk 74133
Luxembourg 72208
Ireland 71089
AVERAGE 69563
Italy 68944
Germany 63883
Belgium 54825

This would put us above average on take home pay based on the above 8 countries, using that calculator posted.

For our population size, that doesnt seem too bad.

Eric Cartman

Lucifer wrote: »

80,000
France 54906
Uk 54933
Spain 54024
Luxembourg 52008
Ireland 51889
AVERAGE 49679
Italy 48192
Germany 41607
Belgium 39873


120,000
Spain 76024
France 75402
Uk 74133
Luxembourg 72208
Ireland 71089
AVERAGE 69563
Italy 68944
Germany 63883
Belgium 54825

This would put us above average on take home pay based on the above 8 countries, using that calculator posted.

For our population size, that doesnt seem too bad.

How in the hell can anyone see getting 76k of your 120k salary into your pocket as not completely immoral and just oppressive. Taxation is far too high across the EU. Somebody on 120k should atleast be keeping 95-100k 20-25k a year per person is more than enough to take in income tax.

Chips Lovell

It's hardly oppressive if that's what people vote for. By and large, European voters like a high level of state services and are willing, to varying degrees, to pay for that through taxation. If the consensus changed, you'd expect to see people starting to vote in representatives advocating slashing services in order to cut taxes.

Eric Cartman

Chips Lovell wrote: »

It's hardly oppressive if that's what people vote for. By and large, European voters like a high level of state services and are willing, to varying degrees, to pay for that through taxation. If the consensus changed, you'd expect to see people starting to vote in representatives advocating slashing services in order to cut taxes.

sadly theres very few options to vote for that across europe. Sure that exact policy is what got FG elected in 2011 and did they do any tax cutting, not a chance.

sameoldname

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How in the hell can anyone see getting 76k of your 120k salary into your pocket as not completely immoral and just oppressive. Taxation is far too high across the EU. Somebody on 120k should atleast be keeping 95-100k 20-25k a year per person is more than enough to take in income tax.

Based off your "contributions" to this thread so far you've suggested cutting at least 30 billion out of government spending. That's more than the entire welfare budget including pensions so what else would you cut to bring about this fantasy of yours?
Maybe policing? You've only got about 1 million people rioting because you removed their pensions, job seekers, employment support, disability payments, children's allowance, carer support and social housing but I'm sure it'll be fine.

Eric Cartman

sameoldname wrote: »

Based off your "contributions" to this thread so far you've suggested cutting at least 30 billion out of government spending. That's more than the entire welfare budget including pensions so what else would you cut to bring about this fantasy of yours?
Maybe policing? You've only got about 1 million people rioting because you removed their pensions, job seekers, employment support, disability payments, children's allowance, carer support and social housing but I'm sure it'll be fine.

How much do we spend on NGO's, foreign aid, housing associations, middle management in the civil service, duplicate jobs in the HSE ?

sameoldname

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How much do we spend on NGO's, foreign aid, housing associations, middle management in the civil service, duplicate jobs in the HSE ?

Once again, looking for others to do the work for you like the "scroungers" you love to complain about ad-infinitum. Find your own figures.

Chips Lovell

Eric Cartman wrote: »

sadly theres very few options to vote for that across europe.

I think if there was a genuine demand for these kind of policies, people would get up off their arses and form parties that back them.

theguzman

sameoldname wrote: »

Based off your "contributions" to this thread so far you've suggested cutting at least 30 billion out of government spending. That's more than the entire welfare budget including pensions so what else would you cut to bring about this fantasy of yours?
Maybe policing? You've only got about 1 million people rioting because you removed their pensions, job seekers, employment support, disability payments, children's allowance, carer support and social housing but I'm sure it'll be fine.

I would start with mandatory redundancies of over 100,000 public and civil sector workers, statues do work than most of them.

Abolish all forms of local government and the senate. Cut bureaucracy in a fire of rules and regulations. I would strengthen law and order and fire every judge and barrister in the country. Every former politician would have his pensions removed. I would immediately stop all payments into the EU, I would expropriate all property and wealth of anyone connected to the FF party, this money would be paid over to the creditors from 2010 and then close the book no more repayment on that.

All healthcare should be privatised, we don't have healthcare in Ireland only a idealogical dogma masquerading as healthcare.

sameoldname

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I think if there was a genuine demand for these kind of policies, people would get up off their arses and form parties that back them.

I doubt there's any real support for those policies even from the people here who are championing low taxes. I'm still waiting for one of them to actually name a country they wish to emulate.

Chips Lovell

What could possibly go wrong?

Das Reich

I just not understand the inheritance tax, so basically a person will work and pay mortgage for big part of their life so when they die the state inherit a third.

sameoldname

theguzman wrote: »

I would start with mandatory redundancies of over 100,000 public and civil sector workers, statues do work than most of them.

Abolish all forms of local government and the senate. Cut bureaucracy in a fire of rules and regulations. I would strengthen law and order and fire every judge and barrister in the country. Every former politician would have his pensions removed. I would immediately stop all payments into the EU, I would expropriate all property and wealth of anyone connected to the FF party, this money would be paid over to the creditors from 2010 and then close the book no more repayment on that.

All healthcare should be privatised, we don't have healthcare in Ireland only a idealogical dogma masquerading as healthcare.

It took more time to type that then thought put into it I'd say.

sameoldname

Das Reich wrote: »

I just not understand the inheritamce tax, so basically a person will work and pay mortgage for big part of their life so when they die the state inherit a third.

The deceased doesn't pay anything, the recipient may have to depending on the amount and relation to the deceased. This was covered a few pages back.

Eric Cartman

sameoldname wrote: »

Once again, looking for others to do the work for you like the "scroungers" you love to complain about ad-infinitum. Find your own figures.

im not looking for hard figures here, its more a suggestion of where id make the savings.

nice to see you keep implying the unemployed are lazy.

Chips Lovell

sameoldname wrote: »

I doubt there's any real support for those policies even from the people here who are championing low taxes. I'm still waiting for one of them to actually name a country they wish to emulate.

There are actually examples of countries with little or no income tax, low inheritance taxes, and minimal state services. It's called the 19th Century.

sameoldname

Eric Cartman wrote: »

im not looking for hard figures here, its more a suggestion of where id make the savings.

nice to see you keep implying the unemployed are lazy.

I didn't imply anything. I said you are lazy and a hypocrite.

Anyway, you gave actual figures when you said how much people should pay, it shouldn't be hard to do the same for how much you want to cut.

a very cool kid

theguzman wrote: »

I would start with mandatory redundancies of over 100,000 public and civil sector workers, statues do work than most of them.

Abolish all forms of local government and the senate. Cut bureaucracy in a fire of rules and regulations. I would strengthen law and order and fire every judge and barrister in the country. Every former politician would have his pensions removed. I would immediately stop all payments into the EU, I would expropriate all property and wealth of anyone connected to the FF party, this money would be paid over to the creditors from 2010 and then close the book no more repayment on that.

All healthcare should be privatised, we don't have healthcare in Ireland only a idealogical dogma masquerading as healthcare.

You'd end up living here in your own lol

2lazytogetup

Chips Lovell wrote: »

There are actually examples of countries with little or no income tax, low inheritance taxes, and minimal state services. It's called the 19th Century.

was it vat or income tax that was introduced by the British to pay for ww2. still being paid.

anyone set against tax, should check out the Adam Smith Institution. They run events in london, free booze, but some of the people at it, oh my God.

PommieBast

2lazytogetup wrote: »

was it vat or income tax that was introduced by the British to pay for ww2. still being paid.

Purchase tax, which was precursor for VAT. Income tax was the Napoleonic war

StupidLikeAFox

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How much do we spend on NGO's, foreign aid, housing associations, middle management in the civil service, duplicate jobs in the HSE ?

So you would rob from the poor to give to the rich - not sure that would be a popular one Eric Cartman.

How would you deal with the ballooning homelessness after you get rid of housing associations and cut government income in one fell swoop?

wiggle16

theguzman wrote: »

I would start with mandatory redundancies of over 100,000 public and civil sector workers, statues do work than most of them.

Abolish all forms of local government and the senate. Cut bureaucracy in a fire of rules and regulations. I would strengthen law and order and fire every judge and barrister in the country. Every former politician would have his pensions removed. I would immediately stop all payments into the EU, I would expropriate all property and wealth of anyone connected to the FF party, this money would be paid over to the creditors from 2010 and then close the book no more repayment on that.

All healthcare should be privatised, we don't have healthcare in Ireland only a idealogical dogma masquerading as healthcare.

Aha. Yes. Adolf Hitler's style of governance.

Will you burn books and build autobahns too?

Geuze

Das Reich wrote: »

I just not understand the inheritance tax, so basically a person will work and pay mortgage for big part of their life so when they die the state inherit a third.

It is called CAT.

https://revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/index.aspx

The beneficiaries of a gift or an inheritance may have a CAT liability, but there are exemptions and thresholds.

I'm guessing the majority of recipients of gifts/inheritances are free of CAT.

wiggle16

Geuze wrote: »

It is called CAT.

https://revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/gift-and-inheritance-tax-cat/index.aspx

The beneficiaries of a gift or an inheritance may have a CAT liability, but there are exemptions and thresholds.

I'm guessing the majority of recipients of gifts/inheritances are free of CAT.

Yep, most people will never have to pay CAT, but I feel like this has been explained to death in this thread.

relax carry on

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So you would rob from the poor to give to the rich - not sure that would be a popular one Eric Cartman.

How would you deal with the ballooning homelessness after you get rid of housing associations and cut government income in one fell swoop?

“Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don’t make merry myself at Christmas and I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.” “Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.” “If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”

kalych

theguzman wrote: »

I would start with mandatory redundancies of over 100,000 public and civil sector workers, statues do work than most of them.

Abolish all forms of local government and the senate. Cut bureaucracy in a fire of rules and regulations. I would strengthen law and order and fire every judge and barrister in the country. Every former politician would have his pensions removed. I would immediately stop all payments into the EU, I would expropriate all property and wealth of anyone connected to the FF party, this money would be paid over to the creditors from 2010 and then close the book no more repayment on that.

All healthcare should be privatised, we don't have healthcare in Ireland only a idealogical dogma masquerading as healthcare.

No, thank you! Lucky for us most people don't agree with you. Next!

Eric Cartman

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

So you would rob from the poor to give to the rich - not sure that would be a popular one Eric Cartman.

How would you deal with the ballooning homelessness after you get rid of housing associations and cut government income in one fell swoop?

Those on 100k a year are not rich

beggars_bush

You missed one of the biggest ones - CAT
Capital Aquisitions Tax

beggars_bush

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Those on 100k a year are not rich

Only if they've a load of debt to pay