Public Consultation on a Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS) in Ireland

idc

cruisey1987 wrote: »

It seems the process for up to 6kW single phase or 11kW 3 phase is quite straightforward to get connected as it requires no changes to the existing grid

Not quite, if you read the public consultation the ESB state:

An assessment of impacts on the distribution network with higher proportions of microgenerators. ESB Networks Asset Management has carried out an initial analysis of these impacts and has concluded “that the network can currently accommodate widespread micro-generation penetration at levels up to 3kWp (rural) and 4kWp (urban). At lower levels of penetration, 6kWp/11kWp can be provided and may result in some levels of reinforcement. At higher penetration levels of 6kWp/11kWp, or at greater than 11kWp, an individual system study is required for each connection assessing associated work and costs.”

At least people with solar or getting solar now should be okay as we're at the low level stages

Gazzler82

Any mention in the Doc about Revenue looking for their pound of flesh??

Also my smart meter was uninstalled after I switched to day/night as the ESB networks person said they didn’t know if the “smart” meter can manage day/night

So one might have to make a choice to export or keep day/night. If you have an EV i suspect it isn’t a choice at all

the_amazing_raisin

Gazzler82 wrote: »

Any mention in the Doc about Revenue looking for their pound of flesh??

Also my smart meter was uninstalled after I switched to day/night as the ESB networks person said they didn’t know if the “smart” meter can manage day/night

So one might have to make a choice to export or keep day/night. If you have an EV i suspect it isn’t a choice at all

No, I guess most suppliers will simply credit your account, so likely your bills will decrease over a year rather than receiving actual cash


Unless you're exporting so much that you're making money of course


I think there's an issue with the smart meters that they can't do day/night. I suspect this is more in the process of ESB checking the readings, as the meters themselves can send updates as often as every 30 mins AFAIK


It should hopefully be fixed soon

slave1

Gazzler82 wrote: »

Any mention in the Doc about Revenue looking for their pound of flesh??

Also my smart meter was uninstalled after I switched to day/night as the ESB networks person said they didn’t know if the “smart” meter can manage day/night

So one might have to make a choice to export or keep day/night. If you have an EV i suspect it isn’t a choice at all

How would Revenue be involved, it's not a trade and hardly Income to be taxed, if they did then we'll all have heavy Capital Allowances to use up!!!!

MicktheMan

slave1 wrote: »

How would Revenue be involved, it's not a trade and hardly Income to be taxed, if they did then we'll all have heavy Capital Allowances to use up!!!!

I believe there was talk of Belgium having some sort of tax on PV there.

drdidlittle

Vat?

KCross

Gazzler82 wrote: »

Any mention in the Doc about Revenue looking for their pound of flesh??

No there isnt, nor would it be worth revenue's time to administer collecting €20 from micro-generators each year.

Gazzler82 wrote: »

Also my smart meter was uninstalled after I switched to day/night as the ESB networks person said they didn’t know if the “smart” meter can manage day/night

The back office systems were initially only setup to manage the 24hr tariffs first. They were adding the day/night tariffs second and there will be a 3rd tariff and now the export stats as well.

The smart meter has all the capability already, its the back office systems need updating at ESB and the providers.


Its supposed to be done by the time this project is up and running. It will be a complete farce if its not.

MAULBROOK

From ESB Networks.

Thank you for your email.

Please see link below to the smart meter section of our website for your information.
https://www.esbnetworks.ie/existing-connection/meters-readings/smart-meter-upgrade

Currently whereas the smart meters are being installed, they are not smart 'enabled' and can only facilitate a 24hr tariff. We expect the meters to be smart enabled in the coming months ( although currently all smart metering activity is suspended due to level 5 restrictions ).

Currently we are only approaching customers with 24hr tariffs to swap out the meters, essentially replacing like with like just at the moment.

It is not possible to request an early installation. These installations are being done by both ourselves and contractors working on our behalf and you can expect to hear from us when we are in your area. We can certainly note your preference for a smart meter at the earliest possible opportunity, and I have noted this on your MPRN
Please contact me again if I can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
Jane

Second Responce

Thank you for your reply.

Apologies if I was unclear in my reply. My understanding is that once the smart meter is enabled, it will be able to accommodate whatever packages are offered by the supplier. So certainly a smart meter will be able to facilitate a dual tariff in time, but just not at the moment in the short term.
Kind regards,
Jane

And finally

Thank you for your email.

I am writing to confirm that it would be early 2022, if not earlier, that a Smart Meter would in stalled in your property. As you can imagine this is a very large project.
Please contact me again if I can be of further assistance.
Kind regards,
Jenny

MAULBROOK

Looks like i will have some time check my options RE FIT

KCross

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Looks like i will have some time check my options RE FIT

Those applying for FiT are supposedly to get priority install of Smart meters. Its pointless otherwise. Covid might cause issues but I dont think it should since the meter is usually accessible outside and its just a case of swapping it out. One man job.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116144653&postcount=158

slave1

Thanks for those posts, still, day/night rate critical for us heavy leccy users especially EV owners, will not be touching FIT without Day/Night rate functionality.
With an Eddi and two EV's FIT will need to be at a good rate for it to be worth my while

MAULBROOK

slave1 wrote: »

Thanks for those posts, still, day/night rate critical for us heavy leccy users especially EV owners, will not be touching FIT without Day/Night rate functionality.
With an Eddi and two EV's FIT will need to be at a good rate for it to be worth my while

This is the first winter i have been recharging the battery on night rate to use it during the day and so far it working out very well. Most recent bill was €114.

Without the night rate any smart meter is pointless. IMO

ECO_Mental

KCross wrote: »

Those applying for FiT are supposedly to get priority install of Smart meters. Its pointless otherwise. Covid might cause issues but I dont think it should since the meter is usually accessible outside and its just a case of swapping it out. One man job.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116144653&postcount=158

I presume that any new connections will be smart meters going into houses. Just signing my connection agreement and planning to get 6kWp installed, requested a day/night rate but I presume I will be getting a smart meter.

KCross

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I presume that any new connections will be smart meters going into houses. Just signing my connection agreement and planning to get 6kWp installed, requested a day/night rate but I presume I will be getting a smart meter.

I was at a new house that got connected a week ago and it didn’t have a smart meter!

MAULBROOK

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I presume that any new connections will be smart meters going into houses. Just signing my connection agreement and planning to get 6kWp installed, requested a day/night rate but I presume I will be getting a smart meter.

Presume nothing, all you will get is what you have.
I presumed when i got a digital meter I would get it with DAY/NIGHT.
If you had a mechanical meter that was 24hour then you will get a digital meter that's set to 24hour.

You need to tell ESB Networks you want the day/night setup, be it dumb or be it a smart meter.

I did ask the ESB bloke who fitted the meter why he was not fitting a Smart meter, he just said its not his department.

lightson

I know this is not a meeter thread but surly the best meeter is the one that goes backwards. Ie the perfect grid battery.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I was at a new house that got connected a week ago and it didn’t have a smart meter!

Jesus.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Jesus.

And the price of electricity went up last year because of higher "grid charges"

I wonder what that's all about...

unkel

Not cheap those ESB employees. Work a little just to make things tick over - don't expect any vision there - cost over €100k on average in labour costs. Someone has got to pay for those benefits. Guess who that is?

buzz11

Gazzler82 wrote: »

Any mention in the Doc about Revenue looking for their pound of flesh??

Also my smart meter was uninstalled after I switched to day/night as the ESB networks person said they didn’t know if the “smart” meter can manage day/night

So one might have to make a choice to export or keep day/night. If you have an EV i suspect it isn’t a choice at all

I have an export meter with day/night rate since the end of '14...its got an antenna as well so does that make it 'smart'?

KCross

buzz11 wrote: »

I have an export meter with day/night rate since the end of '14...its got an antenna as well so does that make it 'smart'?

Dont think so.

MicktheMan

drdidlittle wrote: »

Vat?

I believe so.

idc

Only 4 days left for consultation so hope everyone has sent in their concerns/issues/etc regarding the scheme as currently designed

the_amazing_raisin

idc wrote: »

Only 4 days left for consultation so hope everyone has sent in their concerns/issues/etc regarding the scheme as currently designed

I wish they'd publish the feedback, I'd love to know what the craziest comments were

Something like this is bound to bring out the tinfoil hat brigade

KCross

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I wish they'd publish the feedback, I'd love to know what the craziest comments were

Something like this is bound to bring out the tinfoil hat brigade

They usually do publish it.

air

The existing 9c microgeneration FIT is no more anyway (as expected), customers will be migrated to the electric ireland microgeneration tariff when the new scheme is implemented.

MAULBROOK

air wrote: »

The existing 9c microgeneration FIT is no more anyway (as expected), customers will be migrated to the electric ireland microgeneration tariff when the new scheme is implemented.

Where did this come from?

air

MAULBROOK wrote: »

Where did this come from?

Letter in the post from EI today.

KCross

A little over 24hrs left to get your submission in

The closing date for submissions is 5.30pm on Thursday 18 February 2021

unkel

KCross wrote: »

A little over 24hrs left to get your submission in

The closing date for submissions is 5.30pm on Thursday 18 February 2021

TL;DR

So where is the actual consultation? I had a quick look at the about 300 page :rolleyes: PDF files in the link in the OP, but there doesn't seem to be anything to fill in. Would they not just have set up an online survey?

idc

I wasn't exactly sure what to do myself but concentrated on the first pdf "Public Consultation on a Micro-generation Support Scheme (MSS) in Ireland" and the 14 or so questions at the end. Providing my own answers comments for most of them and sent that.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

TL;DR

So where is the actual consultation? I had a quick look at the about 300 page :rolleyes: PDF files in the link in the OP, but there doesn't seem to be anything to fill in. Would they not just have set up an online survey?

Go to the link in the OP.

There are 2 docs listed there.... you only need to read/reply to the first one... thats the actual consultation document. The 2nd doc is a supporting doc only.


The email to send your response to is also in the OP link. They specifically want you to reply to the 14 consultation questions not rant and rave about ESB which I know you want to do! :pac:

Do installs completed before June fall into CEG?

KCross

6 wrote: »

Do installs completed before June fall into CEG?

Yes

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Yes

Thanks

insular1

I'm planning on getting solar PV installed shortly. Would people here recommend waiting until after July to install to available of the likely higher CEP rate for FIT?

What actually let's the ESB actually know that I have PV installed? Like could I get it installed in June but just not register it until July and then claim the CEP rate. Is there some documentation needs to be submitted or something that lets the ESB know or do they just detect the electricity coming back to the grid?

garo

The CEP is meant to replace the 3k grant I believe. Nobody knows yet which will be better but I'd take money in hand any day.

insular1

garo wrote: »

The CEP is meant to replace the 3k grant I believe. Nobody knows yet which will be better but I'd take money in hand any day.

Sorry should have mentioned our house is only 5 or 6 years old so not eligible for the grant.

I know it's a guessing game really but it'd be a shame to miss out on a premium rate FIT for the sake of a few weeks.

KCross

insular1 wrote: »

I'm planning on getting solar PV installed shortly. Would people here recommend waiting until after July to install to available of the likely higher CEP rate for FIT?

Its a guess one way or the other as no one knows what the FiT will be and what the grant will be. Your guess is as good as anyone else's.

I'd take the current grant if it were me.

insular1 wrote: »

What actually let's the ESB actually know that I have PV installed? Like could I get it installed in June but just not register it until July and then claim the CEP rate. Is there some documentation needs to be submitted or something that lets the ESB know or do they just detect the electricity coming back to the grid?

You'd need to get the electrician to lie for you for that!

When you apply for the grant or an electrician signs off on the install he has to sign an NC6 form that is sent to the ESB to let them know that you are connected.

garo wrote: »

The CEP is meant to replace the 3k grant I believe. Nobody knows yet which will be better but I'd take money in hand any day.

A recent webinar on the MSS said that the SEAI grant was going to be changed but not scrapped when FiT comes in. That wasnt official, just what they expected to happen.

I'd interpret that to mean that it will be revised down but I dont think they will scrap it because lets be honest the FiT is going to be worth small money (<€100/yr for CEG). The CEP payment wont be a whole lot more and the grant is currently worth €1800-€3k.

If they want to increase uptake they need to increase incentive not take it away so I think it will stay but be revised in some way.... anyones guess what that will be though but you'd have to be thinking they will reduce it...... lots of talk in the consulation paper about 3kWp so they might decide to only grant aid upto that... just guessing.

KCross

insular1 wrote: »

Sorry should have mentioned our house is only 5 or 6 years old so not eligible for the grant.

I know it's a guessing game really but it'd be a shame to miss out on a premium rate FIT for the sake of a few weeks.

One of the kickers with the proposed premium tariff is that it might be tied to the SEAI grant!

If they do tie it to SEAI it might make you ineligible for that premium payment since you are not eligible for the current grant.

Again, all guess work. They might also decide to do away with that 2011 requirement they have at the moment. Anyones guess really.

So, you might find you install from 1 Jul or later but are still not eligible for the premium payment because your house is only 5 years old... that would be stupid but thats what they have in place for the current grant, as you know.

insular1

KCross wrote: »

One of the kickers with the proposed premium tariff is that it might be tied to the SEAI grant!

If they do tie it to SEAI it might make you ineligible for that premium payment since you are not eligible for the current grant.

Again, all guess work. They might also decide to do away with that 2011 requirement they have at the moment. Anyones guess really.

So, you might find you install from 1 Jul or later but are still not eligible for the premium payment because your house is only 5 years old... that would be stupid but thats what they have in place for the current grant, as you know.

That's a really good point. Im gonna go ahead with it. Who knows with lockdowns and everything might be July before it gets installed anyway!

DrPhilG

insular1 wrote: »

That's a really good point. Im gonna go ahead with it. Who knows with lockdowns and everything might be July before it gets installed anyway!

You never know. I ordered mine in mid July last year with ongoing lockdowns. Installed 2 weeks later.

Niceday20

Some Interesting industry responses out there:
ISEA --> irishsolarenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ISEA-Response-to-ESB-Module-Substation-Consultation.pdf
IFA --> w ww.ifa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IFA-submission-to-Public-Consultation-on-the-Microgeneration-Support-Scheme.pdf
IGBC--> w ww.igbc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/MSS_IGBC_Final.pdf

graememk

Niceday20 wrote: »

Some Interesting industry responses out there:
ISEA --> irishsolarenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/ISEA-Response-to-ESB-Module-Substation-Consultation.pdf
IFA --> w ww.ifa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/IFA-submission-to-Public-Consultation-on-the-Microgeneration-Support-Scheme.pdf
IGBC--> w ww.igbc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/MSS_IGBC_Final.pdf

Anyone do a TLDR?

Patmwgs

They wont be giving people much encouragement dropping the current payment of 9 cent a kwh for those who are eligible. It is just the usual step backwards. When i first installed i was getting 19 cent a kwh sent back to the grid. How much would your solar pv producers need to get paid to cancel out needing the large expense of batteries for storage.

the_amazing_raisin

Patmwgs wrote: »

They wont be giving people much encouragement dropping the current payment of 9 cent a kwh for those who are eligible. It is just the usual step backwards. When i first installed i was getting 19 cent a kwh sent back to the grid. How much would your solar pv producers need to get paid to cancel out needing the large expense of batteries for storage.

The grants were always tailored around self consumption and required batteries for larger installations, so I doubt that will change with the new feed in tariff

Personally I think market rates plus a small premium is better from a grid standpoint. It doesn't make sense to be paying a premium to people putting power on the grid when it's over capacity anyway

Now it would be great to see more intelligence built into the grid so that consumers (especially bigger ones like factories and data centers) would be incentivised to perform power intensive tasks during time when there's excess capacity in the grid

Patmwgs

North of the border seem to have a lot more pv on roofs, than down here. Small incentives do seem to work. If we all had a 3 to 6kw system installed we would get the carbon imprint well down. And save a few pound eventually.

jkforde

For the ordinary Joe, this from the IGBC submission makes simple plain sense..

..to fill the Viability gap based on a discount rate of 3.75% may be an overly complex system for
analysing microgeneration projects. An alternative would be to use a simplified Payback Period
Calculation. E.g. PV system currently costs €6,000 to install with a grant of €2,000. On site
consumption gives reduced bills calculated at €300 a year with an additional €100 a year generated
from the export guarantee. Cost of install is €4000. Annual income is €400. Simple payback 10 years

MAULBROOK

Any news on this Gents. Time is getting tight for a Government answer, as normal.

the_amazing_raisin

MAULBROOK wrote: »

file:///C:/Users/barry/Downloads/137872_e970e866-76ae-4f34-877f-26980ef483ac.pdf

We don't all have access to your hard drive