Peat Briquette RIP

joebloggs32

Am lucky enough to live near the briquette factory.

Can rock up with a trailer and get a tonne of loose briquettes for €200. Its great value.
I have a bolier stove alongside ofch so in the evening i will put the heat on for just half an hour to get the water warm and then the stove can take over.
Will be sad to see it close. I know a lot of families that have been sustained by the employment of BNM over the years.

Thelonious Monk

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

So you are a D4 head, you'd have a lot in common with them so.

Doesn't take away from what I said though, both Gov Ministers so its their job to be aware of whats going on and peoples concerns nationwide.

Sure Ryan wanted to fill the place with wolves.

No, D5 actually, a world apart.

Eamon's quotes on wolves were completely taken out of context.
What he actually said was

the re-introduction of wolves will not be the priority of the next government but should be possible in 40 or 50 years.

When asked if he would like to see wolves reintroduced to Ireland in his lifetime, Mr Ryan said: ‘Yeah, but first things first, we have to restore our peatlands. We have to build up a native and natural forest.

Currently we have a forestry model which is plantations, which is short of wildlife. It is going to take 40 to 50 years, forestry takes time. It is that sort of time frame not in the political time frame that it might happen in’, Eamon Ryan added.

So if we were to restore our forests, which we wont because farming is all that matters in Ireland, then in 50 years it might not be unreasonable to reintroduce wolves, and why not? They are part of a healthy ecosystem.

Anyway we're going off topic here - Fine Gael's policy of stopping the destruction of the remaining peatlands is a no brainer, given how important they are as carbon sinks.

The Irish green party is not a left wing party.

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

I’d love to be a Green Party follower, but what we have here isn’t a Green Party. It’s an M50 greenwashing brigade who haven’t a clue. Their current actions in government will assign them to a decade in the sidelines, just like their last time in government

I'm starting to think the Greens might be ok, the Government don't seem to be taking an austerity stance during this current crisis, and things will probably boom again when the vaccine is rolled out properly, which means more people will continue to vote Green. People have no time for Greens when there are no jobs, but office workers and techies etc seem to be doing ok, the ones who are more likely to vote Green. I'll add teachers, civil/public servants to that list too, fixed wage and secure job, many vote Green as they don't have the same worries as others.
The inside the M50 crowd in Dublin and the urbanites in Cork and Limerick is a huge voting block, and unless things really go pear shaped I can see the Greens doing well again.

adocholiday

I have a stove in my house as well as ofch. House was built in 2001 and we looked into the viability of a heat pump last year. Quote was 60k to bring the house up to spec for a heat pump! Phasing out fossil fuels is going to be a challenge in this country without massive retrofit initiatives, they can't just let people freeze!

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

It’s an M50 greenwashing brigade who haven’t a clue

Bit rich coming out with that when you see the "Origin Green" nonsense farmers come out with. Or Irish Dairy and their "Moo crew", brainwashing children into thinking dairy is clean, look at the damage it has done to our waterways in the last 10 years. They give them booklets and posters and everything.
https://www.moocrew.ie/

breezy1985

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Ryan and Martin are Government Ministers, its their job to know but both of them are thick as 2 short planks about life outside the M50

Knowing nothing about the country outside the people who vote for you in your constituency could be leveled at a lot of ministers.

How many rural ministers have a clue what is needed in areas like Ballymun, Moyross or Mayfield

Triangle

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

FG/FF have rural TDs and rely on them for votes so wouldn't support an outright ban on turf cutting.

The same can't be said for Ryan and his sidekick Catherine Martin sitting in their posh Dublin neighbourhoods.

Ryan hasn't a clue about life outside Dublin.

FG were part of the European group that brought the agreement in to import cheap beef from Brazil.
Yet the beef farmers love them......

It's absolutely crazy.

Thelonious Monk

breezy1985 wrote: »

Knowing nothing about the country outside the people who vote for you in your constituency could be leveled at a lot of ministers.

How many rural ministers have a clue what is needed in areas like Ballymun, Moyross or Mayfield

Michael Fitzmaurice, I'm sure has very strong views on the Sandymount cycle lane.

Thelonious Monk

Triangle wrote: »

FG were part of the European group that brought the agreement in to import cheap beef from Brazil.
Yet the beef farmers love them......

It's absolutely crazy.

I'm sure it was the Green's fault somehow in their ivory towers

Triangle

_Brian wrote: »

Was photographed sleeping again during the mother’s and babies debacle.

ROFL youve just shown the type of facts you believe.
Research it - its fake news, but don't let that get in your way of making a point

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Irish green party is not a left wing party.

No they are described as a centre left which are political views that lean to the left-wing on the left–right political spectrum. Other centre left parties include the Labour Party and Social Democrats

https://www.nordeatrade.com/en/explore-new-market/ireland/political-context

Their core ideology is largely driven by green politics but tend towards single issue election platforms.

Recent spats amongst party members seem to show a more radical element pushing for power within the party which is perhaps not surprising.

That's said they are useless shower imho.

Galwayguy35

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm starting to think the Greens might be ok, the Government don't seem to be taking an austerity stance during this current crisis, and things will probably boom again when the vaccine is rolled out properly, which means more people will continue to vote Green. People have no time for Greens when there are no jobs, but office workers and techies etc seem to be doing ok, the ones who are more likely to vote Green. I'll add teachers, civil/public servants to that list too, fixed wage and secure job, many vote Green as they don't have the same worries as others.
The inside the M50 crowd in Dublin and the urbanites in Cork and Limerick is a huge voting block, and unless things really go pear shaped I can see the Greens doing well again.

Except you are forgetting that the SDs, Labour and to a certain extent SF are also going to be targeting this group of people and they also know its mostly in urban areas they will get elected.

Only so many votes to go around.

Galwayguy35

Triangle wrote: »

FG were part of the European group that brought the agreement in to import cheap beef from Brazil.
Yet the beef farmers love them......

It's absolutely crazy.

You couldn't be more wrong about the beef farmers, I know because my brother is one of them and they feel like they were screwed over on it big time.

It's dairy farmers you mean who like FG.

Montage of Feck

What would Mick Collins think of the nation of girls blouses we have become?:pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1ZRwDft6eI

Collins: What's this?

IRA volunter: A sod of turf?

Collins: Wrong! It's a weapon.

Thelonious Monk

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Except you are forgetting that the SDs, Labour and to a certain extent SF are also going to be targeting this group of people and they also know its mostly in urban areas they will get elected.

Only so many votes to go around.

Well you'll be spoiled for choice for people to blame. Soc dems could sway my vote alright.

1874

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Somone who ran for the Dail but was rejected in her rural constituency.

She got chosen by her urban buddies to be a senator.

And in good old fashioned politics, handed over her county council seat to her husband.


I dont know how this is ever allowed in a democracy?? imo if someone steps down, to move on to another position or out of politics, then the next person inline on the list of electable persons on that electoral roll, should take the seat and if not available (ie already voted in by transfers etc then, the next and so on, and if no one fills the seat then have an election for the balance of that elected period or the seat is lost if there is such a small duration until the next election or an official placeholder position, who cannot vote in decisions only abstain, BUT NOT a family member or anyone else not voted in.



So now we have a hand picked senator, who was also bumped up to being a super junior minister ahead of countless other TDs elected by the ordinary peole in an election, along with a hand picked county councillor in the Hackett household....all in the space of two years.

Francis and Claire underwood must be mighty impressed.


Again, I dont know how anyone can or should be allowed be hand picked by other politicians, should all be elected in by the electorate, end of imo

So, in case of any misunderstanding< Im agreeing with you here

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Am lucky enough to live near the briquette factory.

Can rock up with a trailer and get a tonne of loose briquettes for €200. Its great value.
I have a bolier stove alongside ofch so in the evening i will put the heat on for just half an hour to get the water warm and then the stove can take over.
Will be sad to see it close. I know a lot of families that have been sustained by the employment of BNM over the years.

Over time, I think things need to change, we cant keep stripping the bogs bare for a number of reasons, burning peat and briquettes is inefficient, obviously its not going to happen all at once. It would be a trainwreck.

I think BnM needs to move into other areas (of energy production/restoring the land) the cost surely must be offset by the cost of carbon penalties, and remedial measures to fix flooding.
To support employment and local communities, but really to retain the skills and give time for changes to occur, but in the end change needs to happen and eventually hopefully it will for all our benefit. If done right, heating a house should/can be cheaper, interior (and outside) air quality, should/can be better than if using a finite resource.


As for Eamon Ryan talking about re-introducing wolves, its airy fairy stuff, regardless of whether we fix wetlands, at this point in time, we'd DO need to fix wetlands and hopefully reintroduce/encourage certain bird wildlife, but in Ireland, it makes me think he is some kind of 5th column to undermine real green change, its too far fetched. Wolves may help the environment and ecology, but I just dont think it fits us anymore, needs a certain amount of remoteness and thats why Wolves went in the first place, because Ireland cant be remote, thats suited to the US(where I understand it has been shown to work), maybe parts of larger countries that have remote places they can cordon off like Poland? Romania? Belarus, locations that have spaces to do that and likely already have some instances of wild native species.

Galwayguy35

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Michael Fitzmaurice, I'm sure has very strong views on the Sandymount cycle lane.

Is he a Gov Minister?

I must have missed the news about his promotion.

Triangle

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You couldn't be more wrong about the beef farmers, I know because my brother is one of them and they feel like they were screwed over on it big time.

It's dairy farmers you mean who like FG.

Well not all, I was chased off a beef farm when canvassing for the last GE. Red faced and shouting about greens while saying how great FG were.

But I get your point.

gozunda

Bigbooty wrote: »

Aren't we going to be connected to mainland Europe soon? We will get to use french nuclear power without having them in our country. No need to worry about energy security once this happens.

...

That French nuclear power connector thing?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53233385

France has pledged to reduce its reliance on nuclear power by shutting down 12 nuclear reactors by 2035.

Apparently to make up the deficit France will be importing energy from Germany produced using fossils fuels ...

No such thing as energy security when we will have to import energy from countries who will understandably put their own energy needs first.

Galwayguy35

breezy1985 wrote: »

Knowing nothing about the country outside the people who vote for you in your constituency could be leveled at a lot of ministers.

How many rural ministers have a clue what is needed in areas like Ballymun, Moyross or Mayfield

Quite a few I'd imagine seeing as the issues in these areas have been well flagged for a number of years now and would be discussed at the Cabinet Table.

breezy1985

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Is he a Gov Minister?

I must have missed the news about his promotion.

So when Ryan wasn't a minister you had no problem with him and his M50 mentality then ?

Mimon

gozunda wrote: »

That French nuclear power connector thing?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53233385

France has pledged to reduce its reliance on nuclear power by shutting down 12 nuclear reactors by 2035.

Apparently to make up the deficit France will be importing energy from Germany produced using fossils fuels ...

No such thing as energy security when we will have to import energy from countries who will understandably put their own energy needs first.

Swings and roundabouts. They are not connecting to us for the craic. It will bring the French more supply options/security.

Galwayguy35

breezy1985 wrote: »

So when Ryan wasn't a minister you had no problem with him and his M50 mentality then ?

Why would I care what Ryan was bladdering on about when he was a TD in opposition?

Weird question.

gozunda

Mimon wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts. They are not connecting to us for the craic. It will bring the French more supply options/security.

True. But don't reckon its a good idea for electricity supply to be doing swings and roundabouts when we need it.

Eitherway its certainly not as green or secure as its being made out to be for sure ..

breezy1985

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why would I care what Ryan was bladdering on about when he was a TD in opposition?

Weird question.

No it's not because you claim that an insular mentality is only a problem when they become ministers but it is clear you hate Ryan regardless.

Usual double standards regarding city TDs

jester77

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with fossil fuels. I set up the heating in the house when I moved in 7 years ago and haven't had to touch anything since then. The thermostats inside and outside control everything and it just has to get serviced once a year.

Galwayguy35

breezy1985 wrote: »

No it's not because you claim that an insular mentality is only a problem when they become ministers but it is clear you hate Ryan regardless.

Usual double standards regarding city TDs

What I said was its their job as Ministers to know whats going on in all parts of the country, what they did or didn't know before this is of no relevance to me.

Das Reich

theguzman wrote: »

An entire industry destroyed and closed down by the far-Left Green party, the same as our Sugar industry destroyed under German demands, our sugar now comes from Germany using sugar cane grown on destroyed Amazon rainforest. But jeez lets all put in heatpumps and pay €2.5k a year in electricity coming at the long end of a gas pipeline from Russia.

BS. The state of São Paulo that produces 53% of Brazilian sugar cane (http://www.iea.sp.gov.br/out/TerTexto.php?codTexto=14767) is thousands km from Amazon rainforests. You have cross Mato Grosso do Sul (350.000 km2 the same area of Germany or 5 ROI), then cross Mato Grosso (900.000 km2 or near 1,5 times Texas) to arrive on Amazonia. That said, everyones know that Amazon land is very poor, the richest and most fertile land is in the state of Paraná, which is the most productive state and on the south of the country very far from Amazon.

Thelonious Monk

jester77 wrote: »

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with fossil fuels. I set up the heating in the house when I moved in 7 years ago and haven't had to touch anything since then. The thermostats inside and outside control everything and it just has to get serviced once a year.

Was like that when i lived in Canada, could be -30c outside and was always warm enough to walk around indoors like it was summer. This was in an old rickety house too.

elperello

jester77 wrote: »

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with fossil fuels. I set up the heating in the house when I moved in 7 years ago and haven't had to touch anything since then. The thermostats inside and outside control everything and it just has to get serviced once a year.

As a matter of interest, what system are you using?

joebloggs32

1874 wrote: »

So, in case of any misunderstanding< Im agreeing with you here





Over time, I think things need to change, we cant keep stripping the bogs bare for a number of reasons, burning peat and briquettes is inefficient, obviously its not going to happen all at once. It would be a trainwreck.

I think BnM needs to move into other areas (of energy production/restoring the land) the cost surely must be offset by the cost of carbon penalties, and remedial measures to fix flooding.
To support employment and local communities, but really to retain the skills and give time for changes to occur, but in the end change needs to happen and eventually hopefully it will for all our benefit. If done right, heating a house should/can be cheaper, interior (and outside) air quality, should/can be better than if using a finite resource.

I agree that fossil fuels have largely had their day. The resource is not sustainable long term. However the economic impact of the wind d8wn of Bord na Mona and the ESB in the midlands in the last 30 years has been staggering...that is an argument for another day.

I am concerned though with our energy security in this country. We are seeing a huge increase in amber alerts with eirgrid, and this will multilly as more people move to heat pumps and electric cars.
We have limited solar capacity in winter and like we seen for the start of the month, a sustained spell of high pressure will virtually knock out wind power..
I'm no expert on the subject, but should we be exploring developing our own nuclear power.
When France moved to it in the 70s it greatly reduced their carbon emissions and boosted energy security.
Are modern nuclear plants more efficient and safer than previous ones?

jester77

elperello wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what system are you using?

District heating, heating gets delivered via pipes into the house, and then distributed around the house for the taps, showers and underfloor heating.

_Brian

jester77 wrote: »

District heating, heating gets delivered via pipes into the house, and then distributed around the house for the taps, showers and underfloor heating.

Source of the heat ??
Heat pump ??

Using electricity from peat until recently

jester77

_Brian wrote: »

Source of the heat ??
Heat pump ??

Using electricity from peat until recently

A cogeneration plant delivers it

beggars_bush

The cold in Canada is not a damp cold like in Ireland

cj maxx

breezy1985 wrote: »

If they were amazing the vast majority of people wouldnt be switching to boilers. Same goes for coal.


I love the smell of a turf fire as a novelty but I wouldnt want to be dealing with the stuff every day

I used to love the bog. And the smell was lovely.

NcdJd

Will be interesting to see how much of the 125,000 acres of bogland will be restored / rewetted and use to store carbon versus the percentage of bog land that will be used as platforms for wind and solar farms. From little information I can get from the BNM website it looks to me that just because they are stopping peat harvesting, does not automatically mean a bog is going to be restored.

Can anyone find any figures on that ? I tried but could not find anything.

Thelonious Monk

beggars_bush wrote: »

The cold in Canada is not a damp cold like in Ireland

Bold statement for the 2nd biggest country in the world with different weather patterns.
Anyway it was purely down to insulation. Houses I was in in Calgary were just as warm as ones in St John's. Totally different climates.

gozunda

NcdJd wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how much of the 125,000 acres of bogland will be restored / rewetted and use to store carbon versus the percentage of bog land that will be used as platforms for wind and solar farms. From little information I can get from the BNM website it looks to me that just because they are stopping peat harvesting, does not automatically mean a bog is going to be restored.

Can anyone find any figures on that ? I tried but could not find anything.

I'm not sure - but I do know that simply rewetting cutover bogland doesn't restart peat decomposition. Necessary aneorbic and acidic conditions take time to establish along with the correct volume and balance of flora essential for peat build up.

Some studies have shown that it may take up to a couple of hundred years for a full bogland ecosystem to reestablish. The same goes for reestablishing rates of carbon sequestration equivalent to that of untouched bogland.

Most of what was cut over for peat in the Midlands was raised bog. What we do have in Ireland is an abundance of upland blanket bog. This is just as important and frequently gets no consideration in its role of controlling excess rainfall and carbon sequestration. Too much has been lost to commercial forestry operations pushed by investment companies.

NcdJd

gozunda wrote: »

I'm not sure - but I do know that simply rewetting cutover bogland doesn't restart peat decomposition. Necessary aneorbic and acidic conditions take time to establish along with the correct volume and balance of flora essential for peat build up.

Some studies have shown that it may take up to a couple of hundred years for a full bogland ecosystem to reestablish. The same goes for reestablishing rates of carbon sequestration equivalent to that of untouched bogland.

Most of what was cut over for peat in the Midlands was raised bog. What we do have in Ireland is an abundance of upland blanket bog. This is just as important and frequently gets no consideration in its role of controlling excess rainfall and carbon sequestration. Too much has been lost to commercial forestry operations pushed by investment companies.

I would have thought a better approach now that they no longer harvest peat and are basically a power generation company, that BNM would be disbanded, the workers transferred over on the same wages and conditions to a small state agency like the NPWS, and get down to restoring the whole 125000 acres.

Pouring hundreds of millions of tonnes of concrete into these areas for bases for wind turbines seems a very short sighted thing to do considering the uniqueness of the habitat.

RandomViewer

NcdJd wrote: »

I would have thought a better approach now that they no longer harvest peat and are basically a power generation company, that BNM would be disbanded, the workers transferred over on the same wages and conditions to a small state agency like the NPWS, and get down to restoring the whole 125000 acres.

Pouring hundreds of millions of tonnes of concrete into these areas for bases for wind turbines seems a very short sighted thing to do considering the uniqueness of the habitat.

Contracts are probably already signed with the Windfarm contractors,

RandomViewer

Would I be right in thinking that Peat briquettes will now be imported from Latvia?

gozunda

RandomViewer wrote: »

Would I be right in thinking that Peat briquettes will now be imported from Latvia?

I don't know about briquettes but its likley that peat based composts for horticulture and gardening will increasingly be imported from abroad.

RandomViewer

gozunda wrote: »

I don't know about briquettes but its likley that peat based composts for horticulture and gardening will increasingly be imported from abroad.

So not really a green move just freeing up land for windmills

1874

NcdJd wrote: »

I would have thought a better approach now that they no longer harvest peat and are basically a power generation company, that BNM would be disbanded, the workers transferred over on the same wages and conditions to a small state agency like the NPWS, and get down to restoring the whole 125000 acres.

Pouring hundreds of millions of tonnes of concrete into these areas for bases for wind turbines seems a very short sighted thing to do considering the uniqueness of the habitat.

Is wind the only renewable source they are aiming for? Id have thought there is still a limited number oflocations suited to the kinds of foundations for windturbines, but even still, it isnt necessary to cover the entire bog in concrete, its a limited footprint under a windturbine required to hold the thing up, they cant butt two turbines right up to each other. cant the surrounding bog still be restored? or locations unsuitable for wind turbines? Im not significantly a supporter of wind turbines nor am I outright against them, I think they suit certain locations better. Is there a continuous wind resource in the Midlands to put all the renewable eggs into that source.


Regarding restoring the wetlands, is it possible to artificially support that, if there is location with the right conditions, can you grow an appropriate plant material on one hand to store carbon/the other to cut and place in bogs to be subject to the processes that create bogs? is it possible to build them up with bio matter? if it is possible, it would seem to take generations, but it might assist in providing employment without drastically scaling back the workforce and the shock effects of that.

NcdJd

RandomViewer wrote: »

Contracts are probably already signed with the Windfarm contractors,

So if I'm reading this right and from the information I've gleaned from the BNM website, this is not really about conservation but about the transition of a semi state company from the production of energy from fossil fuel based sources to one that involves the use of green energy methods...with a couple of bogs restored to keep everyone happy.

RandomViewer

NcdJd wrote: »

So if I'm reading this right and from the information I've gleaned from the BNM website, this is not really about conservation but about the transition of a semi state company from the production of energy from fossil fuel based sources to one that involves the use of green energy methods...with a couple of bogs restored to keep everyone happy.

Wouldnt hold my breath on the bog restoration bit, funding will suddenly be scarce and another few turbines will go up, It'll be privately owned not semi-state when finished

Das Reich

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Bold statement for the 2nd biggest country in the world with different weather patterns.
Anyway it was purely down to insulation. Houses I was in in Calgary were just as warm as ones in St John's. Totally different climates.

Southernmost point in Canada is 41,7° degree N but nearly all the country is North than 49°. A country like that can't have so different climates despite having a large area. Chile have only 1/13 of Canada's area but 4.270 km from north to south, so if a degree of latitude is 111 km it equals to more than 38° of difference between its northernmost point at 17,5° to the southernmost point at 56,5° degrees. This is a country with different climates, not Canada.

NcdJd

1874 wrote: »

Is wind the only renewable source they are aiming for? Id have thought there is still a limited number oflocations suited to the kinds of foundations for windturbines, but even still, it isnt necessary to cover the entire bog in concrete, its a limited footprint under a windturbine required to hold the thing up, they cant butt two turbines right up to each other. cant the surrounding bog still be restored? or locations unsuitable for wind turbines? Im not significantly a supporter of wind turbines nor am I outright against them, I think they suit certain locations better. Is there a continuous wind resource in the Midlands to put all the renewable eggs into that source.


Regarding restoring the wetlands, is it possible to artificially support that, if there is location with the right conditions, can you grow an appropriate plant material on one hand to store carbon/the other to cut and place in bogs to be subject to the processes that create bogs? is it possible to build them up with bio matter? if it is possible, it would seem to take generations, but it might assist in providing employment without drastically scaling back the workforce and the shock effects of that.

When you factor in roadways the footprint can be quite big. The bog in my view is basically destroyed. I think if it was done right and genuinely was about saving what bog habitat we have left, there would be nothing allowed on them. We have one opertunity to get this right but when you have a company that is only looking what other commercial opertunities they can get out of this my fear is that the environmental end of things will take the back seat unless there is something they can generate positive publicity with.

Sphagnum moss is what is used plant wise to restore a bog as far as I'm aware. I'm not sure about other plant materials.