Peat Briquette RIP

beerguts

elperello wrote: »

Just a thought on the viability of converting old housing stock for elderly people.

In my experience most of the elderly turf users already have a shed to store it in.

Would it be more cost effective to just subsidise a load of good firewood delivered to their shed once a year?

To be honest I wouldn't think so. It's not like we have the right sort of trees growing in abundance at the moment with most being spruce which are full of sap and in my opinion would need 3 years minimum in a shed drying before I would use it. Some might argue for mechanical drying but then you are forcing people to use certain vendors and I could see cartels forming with price increases Also with the Ash die back going to hit us over the next decade all we would have is Sally (willow to the non bloggers reading).
It would just be more useful to issue lifetime licences to people aged 45 upwards to cut 1 plot of turf for personal use that would expiry on their death and would be non transferable.
It would protect some of the people more in danger of fuel poverty and not load expensive retrofitting on them. I can see that coming as compulsory in the next few green edicts with grants available. But as anyone has ever availed of a grant knows it always comes with strings attached regards vendors and usually you have to fork out first before getting the cash. And a lot of people don't have the resources for that.

1874

dh1985 wrote: »

I have a new house,.three years old, 2400 sq ft, very well insulated , and the usual air tightness stuff that's in all houses now. But unlike most people these days I went with an oil boiler as opposed to a heat pump. Use ~600-700 litres of oil a year for heat and hot water. Installation was 10k cheaper than an heat pump. Priced both at the time. Bought oil for 38c last year. Cheaper than any heat pump for the year. Without even thoughts of the payback period on the installation.Expected life of a heat pump is ~12-15 years. Then your back for a good rodgering again. The efficiency you are quoting are not the efficiencies these units give during cold weather when you actually need them most. Like the week before last. When a house is insulated well you don't need a elaborate and expensive set up to heat it. People thinking heat pumps are economical in well insulated , air tight houses are blinded by the real contributor, the insulation.

Heat pumps are an option, for now, Im not telling anyone to get it.
I dont get what you mean by the real contributor? compared to airtightness, is that what you mean.
What do you call airtightness ACH? the figure you achieve?
Id say airtightness is amost as or equal importance to insulation.

elperello

beerguts wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't think so. It's not like we have the right sort of trees growing in abundance at the moment with most being spruce which are full of sap and in my opinion would need 3 years minimum in a shed drying before I would use it. Some might argue for mechanical drying but then you are forcing people to use certain vendors and I could see cartels forming with price increases Also with the Ash die back going to hit us over the next decade all we would have is Sally (willow to the non bloggers reading).
It would just be more useful to issue lifetime licences to people aged 45 upwards to cut 1 plot of turf for personal use that would expiry on their death and would be non transferable.
It would protect some of the people more in danger of fuel poverty and not load expensive retrofitting on them. I can see that coming as compulsory in the next few green edicts with grants available. But as anyone has ever availed of a grant knows it always comes with strings attached regards vendors and usually you have to fork out first before getting the cash. And a lot of people don't have the resources for that.

Yes , I agree if there was a shortage of firewood it would knock my idea on the head.

It's just that there is so much small old housing stock in those areas that the logistics and cost of converting them all to passive houses would be prohibitive.

Also the older people don't tend to like change and probably wouldn't like the disruption of getting builders in.

And as you mention the paperwork and admin required to get grants.

Most of those old houses could be improved a lot by fitting a stove and insulating the attic and leave the big job to the next owner.

Someone needs to do a paper on this and circulate it to rural TD's before we spend a fortune doing up houses to benefit the eventual inheritors rather than the current residents.

riddles

Does anyone know why this hasn’t taken off. I know the vested interests wouldn’t be in favour of it but it seems like a really good idea using wind to keep reservoirs topped up and use hydro for generation.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/norwegian-energy-giant-spurned-15bn-irish-pumped-hydro-power-plan-36925962.html

Cluedo Monopoly

beerguts wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't think so. It's not like we have the right sort of trees growing in abundance at the moment with most being spruce which are full of sap and in my opinion would need 3 years minimum in a shed drying before I would use it. Some might argue for mechanical drying but then you are forcing people to use certain vendors and I could see cartels forming with price increases Also with the Ash die back going to hit us over the next decade all we would have is Sally (willow to the non bloggers reading).
It would just be more useful to issue lifetime licences to people aged 45 upwards to cut 1 plot of turf for personal use that would expiry on their death and would be non transferable.
It would protect some of the people more in danger of fuel poverty and not load expensive retrofitting on them. I can see that coming as compulsory in the next few green edicts with grants available. But as anyone has ever availed of a grant knows it always comes with strings attached regards vendors and usually you have to fork out first before getting the cash. And a lot of people don't have the resources for that.

The ash dieback is going to have a major impact alright. It's everywhere now.

I presume in the past 22 pages all those who say briquettes have been taught the right way to say it.

elperello

riddles wrote: »

Does anyone know why this hasn’t taken off. I know the vested interests wouldn’t be in favour of it but it seems like a really good idea using wind to keep reservoirs topped up and use hydro for generation.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/norwegian-energy-giant-spurned-15bn-irish-pumped-hydro-power-plan-36925962.html

I don't know why that one didn't progress but there is a similar project proposed in Tipperary.

https://silvermineshydro.ie/

beerguts

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The ash dieback is going to have a major impact alright. It's everywhere now.

True I'd say the isolated Ash in a hedge should be OK but any small. Woods could be hit hard. Time will tell, we have a tendency in the Western world to see everything in a disaster movie setting.

josip

elperello wrote: »

Just a thought on the viability of converting old housing stock for elderly people.

In my experience most of the elderly turf users already have a shed to store it in.

Would it be more cost effective to just subsidise a load of good firewood delivered to their shed once a year?

One thing about setting, lighting and cleaning out a fire is that it gets harder the older you get.
They'll be able to stay in their homes in more comfort for longer with other types of heating.

1874

josip wrote: »

One thing about setting, lighting and cleaning out a fire is that it gets harder the older you get.
They'll be able to stay in their homes in more comfort for longer with other types of heating.

Cant imagine cleaning out a fireplace, havent done it in decades, getting solid fuel delivered, lugging it through the house, temp not easily controllable.
Briquettes and turf are nice, nice for effect occasionally, but not convinced its worth it for supplying heat.


I disputed an engineer years ago about the cost of heating a house, insulated and airtight, but he went through the figures and then also asked me what percent of the time my heating was on. which was for part of the year, the minimum possible, his figures were for 24-7-365, as soon as I can, Im getting something done, because oil isn't going to stay at existing prices and everything could follow that. Have to ship fuel here with oil, or reduce our reliance on it. Costs for fuel always increases in the end, no matter what system you have its going up, somehow.



The problem is with people not knowing how to design/build/set up systems imo, need a heating engineer to design it and for it to work.
I got spouted some bull$hit by installers at an ideal homes expo, some stuff was good, but a lot of people giving out cards for different methods of heating gave me a bad impression they would just lash it in and not do or even know how or what the calculations to be made where.

elperello

josip wrote: »

One thing about setting, lighting and cleaning out a fire is that it gets harder the older you get.
They'll be able to stay in their homes in more comfort for longer with other types of heating.

That's true.
I was thinking more along the lines of a quick cheap fix to replace turf.
For people less mobile it wouldn't work as well.

dh1985

1874 wrote: »

Heat pumps are an option, for now, Im not telling anyone to get it.
I dont get what you mean by the real contributor? compared to airtightness, is that what you mean.
What do you call airtightness ACH? the figure you achieve?
Id say airtightness is amost as or equal importance to insulation.

What I meant by real contributor to the lower energy costs people see in new houses nowadays that are ran using heat pumps is the level of insulation and air tightness. Not the heat source.
Was lumping both in together when I said insulation. Air tightness equally as important as insulation.
What I was getting to was if the house has the correct levels of both insulation and air tightness you don't need a 12k heat pump to heat it. I had no heating for 6 weeks in my house when I moved in first during winter also. Went through a very cold snap at the end of that November and was able to heat the house in about ten minutes with two small electric fan heaters. Stayed warm for hours.
For a lot of people with older houses heat.pumps are not an option as they wouldn't be fit to warm the house not alone warm them cost effectively. The banning of turf and peat will add to fuel poverty as a lot of people are barely getting by as is and don't have the finances to make major upgrades to there house that will make them economical to heat using any other means that fossil fuels.

Capt'n Midnight

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Are modern nuclear plants more efficient and safer than previous ones?

Not if you look at the construction flaws in the EDF EPR's. Thermal efficiency hasn't changed much because the limits are determined by the properties of water and phases of metals stuff you can't easily engineer around.

The bigger problem is you can't do nuclear power on the cheap. Stuff like the Korean fake parts scandal and delayed maintenance worldwide do not inspire confidence.

Even if you could do nuclear safe , clean and cheap all that investment could evaporate overnight if the political climate changes.

lucalux

elperello wrote: »

That's true.
I was thinking more along the lines of a quick cheap fix to replace turf.
For people less mobile it wouldn't work as well.

I get your point, and the other poster's too. It's convenient and what some older people are used to.
It's also very difficult to have to light a fire for your only heat. This isn't realistic for a lot of older people.

In my local area we have free fuel delivery from a range of suppliers, they'll put it where you ask, and they are delivering the hardwood briquettes now, not BNM peat briquettes. That would be a very like-for-like swap for most.

RandomViewer

riddles wrote: »

Does anyone know why this hasn’t taken off. I know the vested interests wouldn’t be in favour of it but it seems like a really good idea using wind to keep reservoirs topped up and use hydro for generation.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/norwegian-energy-giant-spurned-15bn-irish-pumped-hydro-power-plan-36925962.html

Wouldnt know the ins and outs but would assume there would be compulsory purchases and blocking rights of way , these projects seem to go out of the way to alienate locals rather than getting them on board, the case where the ESB got the old woman sent go jail for objecting to them cutting her trees was a turning point for many,

1874

dh1985 wrote: »

What I meant by real contributor to the lower energy costs people see in new houses nowadays that are ran using heat pumps is the level of insulation and air tightness. Not the heat source.
Was lumping both in together when I said insulation. Air tightness equally as important as insulation.
What I was getting to was if the house has the correct levels of both insulation and air tightness you don't need a 12k heat pump to heat it. I had no heating for 6 weeks in my house when I moved in first during winter also. Went through a very cold snap at the end of that November and was able to heat the house in about ten minutes with two small electric fan heaters. Stayed warm for hours.
For a lot of people with older houses heat.pumps are not an option as they wouldn't be fit to warm the house not alone warm them cost effectively. The banning of turf and peat will add to fuel poverty as a lot of people are barely getting by as is and don't have the finances to make major upgrades to there house that will make them economical to heat using any other means that fossil fuels.

I agree they are both very important (the 2 most important things imo), and if done right space heating might be achievable with MVHR, still need something to heat water, which I think solar thermal is more consistent and suitable than solar PV, (I read people saying its ok, but Im not convinced solar PV stacks up in Ireland, more because there is quite of a bit of electronic hardware that needs to be at certain EN standard).
I think it might be possible to get something out of Heat pumps for hot water too.
The problem with heat pumps is, they cant/dont ramp up the temp like traditional heating methods, they have to be left on a low setting all the time, but as you say, with adequate airtightness/insulation they might not even be necessary.
imo the problem is that installers arent familiar with setting them up, any instal needs to be designed so the heat output will be known, failing that then there really is zero point in lashing a heat pump into a regular house without covering the basics (airtightness/insulation).

It warms the cockles of my heart to see the burning of peat dying, it really does

This thread, on the other hand, takes me back to a decade ago when petrol heads were arguing against EV's, hilarious stuff.

Time to move with the times lads

saabsaab

Deleted User wrote: »

It warms the cockles of my heart to see the burning of peat dying, it really does

This thread, on the other hand, takes me back to a decade ago when petrol heads were arguing against EV's, hilarious stuff.

Time to move with the times lads

No more than petrol cars Peat isn't dying out just coming from another country probably a less eco friendly one.

JupiterKid

Ah the aul.peat briquettes.

They were a wonderful resource to throw on the fire in the family home growing up in the 1980s.

A couple of times in my college years in the 90s I was ripped off by small-time hash sellers with pieces of BNM briquettes...

Another old familiar gone....

Boomer Rant

Have the green mentals banned us from burning turf yet?

beggars_bush

Brick-ettes

That is all

RandomViewer

Boomer Rant wrote: »

Have the green mentals banned us from burning turf yet?

They might ban you from cutting it but would have no issue with you importing it from the Baltics,

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It warms the cockles of my heart to see the burning of peat dying, it really does

This thread, on the other hand, takes me back to a decade ago when petrol heads were arguing against EV's, hilarious stuff.

Time to move with the times lads

Covid sort of killing the EVs at the moment

gozunda

RandomViewer wrote: »

Covid sort of killing the EVs at the moment

Thats a lot of flat batteries ...

ShatterAlan

theguzman wrote: »

The midlands around Longford, Westmeath and Offaly are the poorest parts of Ireland and I am talking serious poverty here, BnM provided good paying work for generations there, bogs aren't worth tuppence, big holes of swamp which are not productive or useful. The Green party have condemned the midlands to an even worse future.

If everyone on the island of Ireland collectively committed suicide tomorrow morning it would have absolutely zero impact on the global weather! Look up a globe we are at 53 deg latitude and the weather here will nearly always be terrible.

Ah BOLLOCKS. There's always someone who singles out a political party at whom to throw rocks if it fits an agenda. So condemning the Midlands to further impoverishment is the fault of the Green Party. Didn't the Conservative Party in Britain do the same to the coal-mining industry in the Midlands and North of the UK. Didn't the Democrats in the US implement NAFTA and gut American industries?



How many jobs/livelihoods were lost as a result of curbs on turf/peat harvesting and how much money is spent to clean up after flooding because bogs and marshlands, natural sponges to absorb rainfall, have been gutted.



I have 3 uncles who are farmers in Cork. I would guess that about 10% of their land was probably bog, until of course they drained these bogs and turned them into viable pasture. Few extra quid in the kitty there. Now multiply that by the thousands upon thousands of acres of natural bogland in the region and you have no natural soakage. It rains and the water has nowhere to go except to gush into streams, tributaries and rivers.


No wonder the fcuking, Lee, Bandon and Blackwater burst their banks every year.


Coal is not renewable. Turf is not renewable. Oil is not renewable. It takes millions of year for it to form. Once it's gone, it's GONE. Unless you want to stick around for another few million years for the next batch to emerge.


Trees grow and relatively quickly so wood is a fuel amongst other applications. Wind, solar, biofuel harnessed from quickly grown vegetation can be renewed.

ShatterAlan

screamer wrote: »

We’ll be left freezing our butts off yet, ban solid fuels and we don’t have enough electricity as it is, so see how well your heat pumps work in power cuts. My problem is not with progress, it’s the fact that there’s nothing to progress to, so we’re just putting ourselves in a precarious situation. Mad stuff really these stupid policies on the dankest Little Rock of an island we call Ireland.
The blueshirts, ironically fitting cause we’ll all be a nice shade of it with the cold.

Again, more bollocks.


Always looking to table doomsday scenaria.


See how good your online bank account is to pay for butter and toilet paper when there's a power cut and cash is gone.


What is the currency then? Blowjobs and barter?

trashcan

is_that_so wrote: »

So Pete Briquette is alive and well!

Yep, was I the only one who thought they were clicking onto an RIP thread for the Boomtown Rats bass player ?

josip

trashcan wrote: »

Yep, was I the only one who thought they were clicking onto an RIP thread for the Boomtown Rats bass player ?

Yes you were

Del.Monte

Funny lately how many threads seem to start in the wrong forums, this being one that should be in "Climate Change, Sustainability & Environmental Issues" but would see no posting there, and there's a mad one about Hitler and WW.II. in the History and Heritage Forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058141526 that should be in here. Just saying. :cool:

Thelonious Monk

Boomer Rant wrote: »

Have the green mentals banned us from burning turf yet?

Once again, this was part of the Climate Action Plan launched by FINE GAEL.

It's like Moe from the Simpsons on this thread people want to blame the GP no matter what. Green Party - I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them!

Alf Veedersane

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Once again, this was part of the Climate Action Plan launched by FINE GAEL.

It isn't really part if the CAP either.

It's part of the BnM strategy (Brown to Green) that predates the CAP.

Thelonious Monk

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It isn't really part if the CAP either.

It's part of the BnM strategy (Brown to Green) that predates the CAP.

So why do people on this thread keep saying it was the Greens?

josip

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So why do people on this thread keep saying it was the Greens?

Do you remember from school that there were always some kids who got picked on, usually for no reason, other than they weren't like the other kids?
Some people don't mature, they just get older and join boards.

Alf Veedersane

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So why do people on this thread keep saying it was the Greens?

An easy target.