Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

I'm assuming that the case is being heard in Florida because the scene of the crime is at Mar-A-Lago. As it's Gov DeSantis [a rival candidate for the presidency] state, I won't be surprised if the choosing of a judge is the least of the prosecution problems, as it's within the Trump playbook to play dirty and make accusations against other persons purely for his own benefit. Getting a jury of enough persons free from stain by Trumps legal paintbrush to hear the case might be difficult.

According to media reports, Trump has gone to Georgia and New Jersey. Georgia is for the reported purpose of visiting his fanbase there, and just coincidentally the state where he tried to persuade the State Sec to illegally increase the numbers of votes - aka fixing the vote result - Tump got in his re-election bid as Biden had got more there from the electorate.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120694483#Comment_120694483

The first thing to note about Trump's saying that Hilary should be in jail is that he began saying that before he was elected, with his campaign calls for her to be locked up. He didn't succeed in going after her when he was elected because he was legally blocked from doing so, not because he knew it was not the thing to do.

The content of the taped conversation between him and at least one member of his staff about the classified documents is clear on when the conversation took place. It took place after he left office and he made it clear that he knew he had not declassified the documents in his possession. That is a de facto admission that he knew he had classified documents in his possession with no legal authority. That's the case being brought against him. He even has the neck to continue telling that lie still.

The GOP elected persons had their chance to call a halt to his rampage through the liberties of the the US people by voting to impeach him twice when they had the chance and they chose not to do so on party lines. If they had impeached him, he would have been barred from running for the office a second time, and now this third time, freeing them and the US public from the millstone around their necks.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699557#Comment_120699557

A basic requirement for a judgement from the bench is no bias or leaning toward the defendant. Justice must not only be done, but must be seen to be done. If a judge with a beam in the eye chooses to make rulings in favour of a defendant and declines a recusal offer, the judge is going down the path toward impeachment.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700602#Comment_120700602

But it will be okay to appoint a far left judge, that's some logic, and I guess the jurors too will have to be radially left, or the DOJ will protest that too.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701142#Comment_120701142

Name a 'far left' judge

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701142#Comment_120701142

Yea, how dare the Department of JUSTICE object to a judge not following the law (and be proven right by a higher court); shame on them... You know what BTW, you sound exactly like the guy in the "Leave Britney Alone" clip except you can replace it with Trump. The fact it was overruled as not legal (and clearly outlined as such in the rejection by two Trump appointed judges; ergo no Democratic bias there) does not matter because it's against Trump and that means it has to be wrong in your world view.

salmocab

Toby has made 2 arguments either trump was trying to destroy America or it was just a lazy lawyer and if the trump appointed judge is recused they will be replaced with a far left one. Apparently they see no middle ground in either case and it has to be one thing or another and in both cases come down on the side of trump.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701142#Comment_120701142

The basic requirement applies to all judges. As for appointing of federal judges of all colours of opinion, that's OK. The president nominates and the senate decides on appointment of new judges to sit in existing vacant seats at federal circuit and district level. I assume on appointment, the judge will be located only at that judicial area.

It's usual to believe a judge will use legal and common sense when reaching judgements and, when it's necessary, for the judge to step aside in the interests of justice to allow another federal judge appointed to that particular area to hear the case.

AFAIK [and I may be wrong here] the USSC decided NOT TO hear a case stated by a certain defence team against DOJ appeals over the particular judges decisions in respect of the case of a certain defence team's client as sending a subtle signal that the teams application was not of interest to the USSC. The point was accented when the master the judge appointed made legal argument against some of the judges court decisions interfering with his ability to do his job.

In any case, if the case/s go to trial, it will be juries of his peers that Trump will answer to in court [ if his lawyers allow him to open his mouth to speak except for short one-syllable replies]. We all know he has a thin skin where it comes to people standing in judgement of him.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701142#Comment_120701142

Just one that makes decisions based on law.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702426#Comment_120702426

Every human has bias, no such thing as a neutral judge or jury in this particular case, as everyone in the country is emotional involved.

aloyisious

I'm minded to think that Trump, with his broadcasting his arguments against the DOJ charging him with offences covering illegal possession of classified documents, may have reached an audience beyond his desire which will decide against him after consideration of his continued ranting. Like: what would he need to have possession of the documents for - a friendly fireside chat with friends midwinter when golfing was out, OR a psychological reason - I have possession of important documents, there-for I am important. As it's no longer a secret that he has the the documents, their use to other friends of his has been negated so I think that angle of risk he created to the US has receded.

His speech pattern usually starts off with wide spaced words spoken slowly, then he changes mode and starts speaking fast, staccato-like, repeating his usual complaints that he is the victim of the DOJ and others.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696967#Comment_120696967

When making a statement it helps to have the actual facts and state them, and you don't and haven't. A common trait of trump supporters.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702474#Comment_120702474

The judge makes no decision over a defendants guilt but does have an ability to interfere with the prosecution or defence case through bias. The judge, when appointed as a judge, was made aware she/he has to stand aside from hearing a case in the interests of justice when aware/made aware of a bias she/he has shown in favour of the defendant. Its done in the best interest of the defendant as well, having a hanging judge on the bench wouldn't be good.

I.R.Y.E.D

The displays of stupidity and breaks from reality from trump supporters on social media since the indictments is really something to behold, even after all the examples they provided since before 2016.

Some are just waiting on some of their ilk to commit some form of violence as was seen after the raid on MAL so they can try to blame Biden.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120699664#Comment_120699664

Does anyone know what was said between him and Putin in the meeting where only he, Putin and Putin's translator?

He's a rapist,a liar, a thief, a crook....and I'd not be surprised if he would betray his country for a pot of cash.

https://www.politico.eu/article/donlad-trump-vladimir-putin-g20-why-solo-meeting-with-was-a-big-no-no/

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702474#Comment_120702474

Says more about you than judges. Plenty of professionals are more than able to set aside bias and look at facts. Even when those facts go against their feelings.

Just because Trump is unable to separate his emotions from decisions doesn't mean no-one can.

If you really believe what you say then the entire legal system falls as clearly every judge is making decisions based in boas rather than the law.

But all of this is irrelevant. Trump has admitted himself that he had the docs, he knew they were classified and he tried to lie about it. He tried to hide them for his own gain.

What do you think should happen to a person that wilfully put the security of their country, and their allies, at risk for their own selfish reasons?

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701193#Comment_120701193

You only have to look at the Supreme Court to see the Left and the Right . No escaping bias with humans, maybe AI will be the Judges in the future.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702865#Comment_120702865

Again, name a far left judge

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702865#Comment_120702865

Yes well, as long as Hal is not sitting on the bench looking down at Trump.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702525#Comment_120702525

Allegedly not, apart from the three participants. As for the US participant [being able to] keep quiet on the content before retiring permanently, that's the 64 million dollar question. He does have family.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702865#Comment_120702865

Name a single left wing SCOTUS judge there.

aloyisious

Part of the argument made by some people here against Trump facing trial in a US court is bias. I understand that US law has members of juries being challenged by both lawyers and the trial judge to prevent people of bias from sitting as jurypersons. What I'm unsure of is whether the same law applies to people chosen as prospective jurors to sit on a Grand Jury in a Federal District Court district and whether the lawyers include members of the defendants legal team. The jurors in both ordinary jury service and Grand Jury service are drawn from the very same pool of prospective jurors.

I'd imagine that as a retired former US president is the person named in the case they are hearing to decide if there are sufficient grounds in what they have heard for prosecution by way of trial of the same former president that a great degree of care is taken in the grand jury selection by lawyers and judge to prevent bias. Do defence team lawyers have the right to challenge prospective Grand Jury members?

Larbre34

Why the query about the Grand Jury?

The indictment was on the back of a finding by a Grand Jury which has now completed its work. Doesn't look like he had any bias in his favour there.

Timberrrrrrrr

If I'm reading this correctly, Trumps lawyers are not permitted to represent him in court because they haven't applied to practice in Florida?

https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/1668313750640951297?t=skN19sUcubtZ_9EctMK96g&s=19

https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/1668313750640951297?t=skN19sUcubtZ_9EctMK96g&s=19

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706886#Comment_120706886

That's a known fact; I think one of the supporting once is registered for Florida courts but from what I read they were shopping around to find a lawyer to represent him (which tends to be difficult between the fact he's known not to pay his bills and well, being Trump...).

From CNN:

While the search for more attorneys to join Donald Trump’s legal team continues in Florida, his attorney Todd Blanche, a white-collar criminal defense lawyer, is expected to appear with the former president in court Tuesday, a Trump adviser tells CNN.

Trump’s team spoke with a number of lawyers over the weekend, but it's unclear as of now who the former president will formally hire to represent him in Florida, sources close to the process tell CNN.

Trump’s team has been reaching out to Florida-based attorneys and firms to gauge their interest in joining them, sources tell CNN. Some Florida lawyers also are reaching out to the Trump team to express interest. 

Miami-based attorney Chris Kise, the former Florida solicitor general who was previously sidelined in the dispute arising from a third-party special master review of evidence seized from Mar-a-Lago, is part of this reach-out effort. It’s unclear if Kise will appear with Trump in court Tuesday as well.

Trump needs a lawyer who is admitted to practice law in the southern district of Florida for the arraignment. Lindsey Halligan, another member of his legal team, is licensed in Florida and has worked alongside out-of-state lawyers on other legal matters for Trump on this case. 

Trump has had difficulties retaining seasoned attorneys as he faces an increasingly complicated web of legal troubles, and some firms are reluctant to take on Trump as a client because of concerns about reputational impacts and alienating other clients.

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120696967#Comment_120696967

I'd be entirely sceptical that Trump declassified them or even attempted to do so. The declassification system is a bureaucratic system of logging, stamping and classifying. Does anybody imagine that Trump would have the patience to declassify even only a tiny portion of the huge amount of documents removed from Mar-a-Lardo? No, that indolent buffoon wouldn't even approach anything that looked like work, hence his fantasy of waving has hands over all those boxes and declaring them ''declassified''.

ilkhanid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120701142#Comment_120701142

A ''far left'' judge in the American judicial establishment? Don't make me laugh!

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120706637#Comment_120706637

BornTobyWilde had several posts up about bias against Trump in respect to the DOJ bringing charges against a former president as being politically motivated and being the first time a former president is to be tried before a jury in federal court.

I wanted to find out if the GJ members were chosen and made liable to challenge the same way an ordinary jury is, to cast aside any complaints of a biased jury being emplaced in deciding there was sufficient in the illegal possession of classified documents issue for the DOJ to prefer actual charges against Trump.

What is happening is setting a precedent in US criminal law. I don't know if it will end up before the USSC yet with Trump attempting to railroad that fine body into doing him a favour.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120702990#Comment_120702990

Indeed..Kavanaugh and Long Dong Thomas have sexual assault claims against them; Kavanaugh is a practiced liar re. his testimony about not overturning settles law when questioned about Roe v Wade in his confirmation hearings and the womb that keeps giving, Handmaiden Barrett.

aloyisious

From what's been printed, it seems Don expects to be going home after the end of todays proceedings as it may be simply a remand on own recognizance, especially if Eileen cannon is the judge on the bench. He has called for his supporters to show up at the courthouse in Florida. That may be the fly in the ointment for him, however much he wants an audience for when he walks into and out of the courthouse today besides those at his rallies in Miami.

Kari Lake, one of his supporters and the unsuccessful Republican gubernatorial candidate in Arizona pointedly said over the weekend that if prosecutors “want to get to president Trump,” they’re ”going to have to go through me, and 75 million Americans just like me. And most of us are card-carrying members of the NRA”.