Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

Just to clarify. my post was pointing out how gun advocates, and it was replying to a post about Reps refusing to use metal detectors at congress but happy for them to be installed at schools, use that simplistic way to make themselves feel rational.

Why should they have to be checked, they are not crazy and know how to handle their guns. They all believe that the best way to deal with a bad person with a gun, is a good person with a gun.

They absolutely believe, despite all the evidence, that a gun is the answer.

A punch in the face is infinitely more preferable than a bullet in the chest. Unless you are unforgivably stupid.

check_six

Field east wrote: »

Labeling those who shoot people dead - or that is the intention when the trigger is pulled- as crazy , is an extremely simplistic way of looking at the issue because:-
(1) America is a trigger happy nation in general
(2) given the presence of a certain environment/circumstances a lot of gun holders would pull the trigger. Eg that couple that stood outside their house with gun cocked, in , I think ,a gated estate as a BLM protest group passed by.
(3) the police seem to be quiet happy to shoot to kill rather than shoot to maim. They seem to use the gun first and then to ask questions afterwards. And quiet often they massively escalate a situation that leads to the use of guns rather than backing off a bit and trying another strategy

That pair outside their house spent most of the time in the video pointing their loaded guns at each other if you look closely. They definitely showed up on Fox hailed as some kind of heroes. Did they make it to the stage in a rally? I think they might have. That is the kind of eejit you're dealing with.

The police training in some places in the US is as short as 12 weeks, and most of that time is spent on the firing range. Some states don't even require you to do any training for the first year or so if you pass a firearms proficiency test. That is not conducive to good policing. I'd feel safer arming nightclub bouncers here than some of these lads!

In unrelated news, Oklahoma is now planning on having a Bigfoot hunting season! Is this a cunning tourist ruse to sell licenses? Or is it a way to excuse shooting hairy men willy-nilly?!

serfboard

Lithium93_ wrote: »

So Smartmatic (Voting equipment maker) have filed a defamation suit against those mentioned in the attached tweet, and the opening line of the suit is quiet possibly the best opening line in any sort of lawsuit.

The whole lawsuit is available here, but the introduction is worth reading on a bit:

Smartmatic wrote:

The Earth is round. Two plus two equals four. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the 2020 election for President and Vice President of the United States. The election was not stolen, rigged, or fixed. These are facts. They are demonstrable and irrefutable.

Defendants have always known these facts. They knew Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the 2020 U.S. election. They knew the election was not stolen. They knew the election was not rigged or fixed. They knew these truths just as they knew the Ealth is round and two plus two equals four.

Defendants did not want Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to win the election. They wanted President Donald Trump and Vice President Michael Pence to win re-election. Defendants were disappointed. But they also saw an opportunity to capitalize on President Trump's popularity by inventing a story. Defendants decided to tell people that the election was stolen from President Trump and Vice President Pence.

Defendants had an obvious problem with their story. They needed a villain. They needed someone to blame. They needed someone whom they could get others to hate. A story of good versus evil, the type that would incite an angry mob, only works if the storyteller provides the audience with someone who personifies evil.

Without any true villain, Defendants invented one. Defendants decided to make Smartmatic the villain in their story. Smartmatic is an election technology and software company. It was incorporated in Delaware and its U.S. operations are headquartered in Florida. In the 2020 U.S. election, Smartmatic provided election technology and software in Los Angeles County. Nowhere else. Smartmatic had a relatively small non-controversial role in the 2020 U.S. election.

Those facts would not do for Defendants. So, the Defendants invented new ones. In their story, Smartmatic was a Venezuelan company under the control of corrupt dictators from socialist countries. In their story, Smartmatic's election technology and software were used in many of the states with close outcomes. And, in their story, Smartmatic was responsible for stealing the 2020 election by switching and altering votes to rig the election for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Having invented their story, and created their villain, Defendants set about spreading the word. In November and December 2020, Fox News broadcasted thirteen (13) reports stating and implying that Smartmatic had stolen the 2020 U.S. election. They repeated the story in articles and social media postings. Night after night, publication after publication, Fox News reached out to its millions of viewers and readers around the world with a story: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris did not win the 2020 election; Smartmatic stole the election for them.

check_six

check_six wrote: »

That pair outside their house spent most of the time in the video pointing their loaded guns at each other if you look closely. They definitely showed up on Fox hailed as some kind of heroes. Did they make it to the stage in a rally? I think they might have. That is the kind of eejit you're dealing with.

The police training in some places in the US is as short as 12 weeks, and most of that time is spent on the firing range. Some states don't even require you to do any training for the first year or so if you pass a firearms proficiency test. That is not conducive to good policing. I'd feel safer arming nightclub bouncers here than some of these lads!

In unrelated news, Oklahoma is now planning on having a Bigfoot hunting season! Is this a cunning tourist ruse to sell licenses? Or is it a way to excuse shooting hairy men willy-nilly?!

Mostly A but could result in some of B as casualties

Timberrrrrrrr

serfboard wrote: »

The whole lawsuit is available here, but the introduction is worth reading on a bit:

When you read it you realise that Fox and anyone else that made these claims are pretty much up the creek without the proverbial paddle.

aloyisious

A question in passing: Given that he lost the election AND is no longer leader of the U.S, how does Trump stay as head of the GOP? Does he stay there until the next election and a different candidate is chosen to run for the GOP? Does the party not have some means of reserving the title of party leader for use by the next candidate & elected leader and not allow a defeated candidate use the party leadership title for his own advantage after he lost the election? What use is the loser to the party?

amandstu

aloyisious wrote: »

A question in passing: Given that he lost the election AND is no longer leader of the U.S, how does Trump stay as head of the GOP? Does he stay there until the next election and a different candidate is chosen to run for the GOP? Does the party not have some means of reserving the title of party leader for use by the next candidate & elected leader and not allow a defeated candidate use the party leadership title for his own advantage after he lost the election? What use is the loser to the party?

Are you sure he is the head of the party in any official capacity? Does the post actually exist?

Water John

The GOP has a Chairperson. Is Trump even a member?

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

The GOP has a Chairperson. Is Trump even a member?

A member of the GOP ? You’d assume so given he ran and became president as a republican. I mean would Kevin McCarthy or Mitch McConnell not be up for that title ? I mention them because they’re the two highest ranking elected GOP leaders in congress.

aloyisious

https://www.reddit.com/r/Republican/comments/4gwarz/do_you_have_to_pay_dues_to_be_a_member_of_the/

NO, you don't have to pay party dues to be a member of the GOP.

It's different than most of the world's parties. The United States is not a Partisan system. There is no party leader that is going to come down and force you to vote a certain way, or threaten to kick you out of the party. In the same way there is no designated party leader elected by the party faithful. Think of the Republican party as less of a political party and more of a loose affiliation.

The link and content is 4 years old apparently. The author of Para 2 was either prescient and/or had a great sense of humour.

StringerBell

I see he is still sending statements out under the seal of the president headed paper and having people refer to him as the 45th president of the United States rather than former president.

The thin skin and the crazy is now just full.on funny. The legal response from his team is absolutely cringeingly hilarious.

amandstu

StringerBell wrote: »

I see he is still sending statements out under the seal of the president headed paper and having people refer to him as the 45th president of the United States rather than former president.

The thin skin and the crazy is now just full.on funny. The legal response from his team is absolutely cringeingly hilarious.

Maybe he needs to appoint a new cabinet and have them sworn in to honour and obey him.

But they might need a salary.

Detritus70

amandstu wrote: »

Maybe he needs to appoint a new cabinet and have them sworn in to honour and obey him.

But they might need a salary.

That's never been a problem for Trump. Impress people with bling and how rich he is, pay them buttons and even cheat them out of that and use them as cannon fodder to be thrown under the bus.
Usually he manages to find someone else to finance everything and take care of the inevitable staggering losses.
All his life he had other people to come up with the ideas, the cash, the hard work and take the responsibility when it all comes crashing down.
The man is a leech and a tumor on society.
And until now there has been a neverending line if people begging to be abused, exploited and discarded.
It simply is beyond me.how anyone could be so stupid as to work for this POS.

Eric Cartman

Detritus70 wrote: »

That's never been a problem for Trump. Impress people with bling and how rich he is, pay them buttons and even cheat them out of that and use them as cannon fodder to be thrown under the bus.
Usually he manages to find someone else to finance everything and take care of the inevitable staggering losses.
All his life he had other people to come up with the ideas, the cash, the hard work and take the responsibility when it all comes crashing down.
The man is a leech and a tumor on society.
And until now there has been a neverending line if people begging to be abused, exploited and discarded.
It simply is beyond me.how anyone could be so stupid as to work for this POS.

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

Water John

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

Brilliant spin. It was Trump lost out because those he was in business with were shisters.

pixelburp

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

Trump puts himself front and centre of any initiative he undertakes, presidency included. Not much of a leader if the buck doesn't stop with him and from what I've read of his business leadership style, will often take credit for anything undertaken by his executives. Trump Steaks' failure is his - not least because the man's taste in steaks is an abomination anyway (super, super well done with ketchup), so no wonder the actual product failed

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

Trump University was created by him, it wasn't franchising and amounted to fraud. So to be honest, he shouldn't be allowed to run a business because of that alone. The golf courses he owns also don't turn profits. So that makes it pretty clear that he's atrocious at managing business. You can claim he's oblivious to what goes on in them but it's his responsibility to know.

banie01

One has to wonder how many other little acts of corruption will become apparent as we move further in time from Trump's grip on power?

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2021/02/06/arizona-rep-mark-finchem-paid-by-trump-campaign-during-election-challenge/4413949001/

Former President Donald Trump’s reelection campaign reported paying $6,037 to a business owned by state Rep. Mark Finchem while the lawmaker pushed for the Legislature to overturn Joe Biden's victory in Arizona.

The campaign reported in its latest financial disclosure that it made a payment on Dec. 18 to “Mrk Finchem PLLC” and the address provided for the company is the lawmaker’s home. The campaign labeled the expense as “recount: legal consulting.”

Finchem, R-Oro Valley, said the payment was a reimbursement "for crowd control and security costs" at a meeting he convened at a downtown Phoenix hotel on Nov. 30 with the president's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, several other Republican legislators and various people alleging wrongdoing during the election

amandstu

banie01 wrote: »

One has to wonder how many other little acts of corruption will become apparent as we move further in time from Trump's grip on power?

https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2021/02/06/arizona-rep-mark-finchem-paid-by-trump-campaign-during-election-challenge/4413949001/

Hmm perhaps it was a mistake to vote for a presidential candidate whose character had already been established to be fast and loose.

Or is it "sure they are all at it"?In that case the rare candidate with proven good character will have to keep a low profile in case they are pilloried for ......poor character.

astrofool

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

I think most people understand that, it's because trump tries to present himself as a capable businessman rather than a schister that people will call him on it (and also because there's tweets and interviews of him criticising others for things the he himself failed miserably at). He's lost most of his dad's money on real estate, had most of the branded items fail (steaks, university, casino), golf courses failing to turn a profit, and in debt by hundreds of millions. It's arguable that the only thing that saved him was Mark Burnett coming up with the concept for the apprentice, which made him a star and covered his debt payments.

Now he needs his political supporters to make those payments for him, so everything is setup to turn the screw on them, chasing failure.

If you could sum up trumps involvement in anything he's done in his life it's "added no value, left a mountain of debt", it's just a pity that he's done the same to the USA.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

You should read Michael Cohens book. Trump tried to shaft everyone who ever came near him. Figuratively and literally in many cases as he told us himself.

Detritus70

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By the same token of it being other peoples ideas etc... could you not see a flipside to that, the guys main shtick outside real estate has been effectively licensing his name , take trump steaks for instance , doubt the guy had any control over anything in that entire plan bar signing for the finance and lending his name to it / doing the ad , it was a shítshow from start to finish , product failed and whatever of an LLC losing money, the failure for the project is still considered trumps failure , he lost reputation , the actual people running the project in to the ground left unscathed.

I agree in part with you, but many things are also directly involving him.
And he seems to be so consistently awful at this that it's either carelessness or downright malice.
Trump's own words about the casino debacle:

He then took his casinos public in the mid-1990s, transferring their debt, hundreds of millions of dollars, to shareholders. He declared it to be “a very good deal.”

Even the Kardashians are ten times better at affixing their name to random products and making money out of it.
Anyone should check out this article, it details how Trump's business decisions are informed by vanity, hubris and incompetence. He's a terrible business man and in my opinion an even worse conman.
No one with an IQ >50 should fall for his bullsh*t.
Why supposedly fully functional adults that are able to tie their shoelaces unaided trust this man, is an absolute mystery to me.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trumps-art-of-the-fail-213578

demfad

Tell me how wrote: »

You should read Michael Cohens book. Trump tried to shaft everyone who ever came near him. Figuratively and literally in many cases as he told us himself.

Michael Cohen's Uncle ran the club on Brighton Beach where Russian Mafia figures hung out. These were the guys who were living in and money laundering through Trump condos in Trump Tower, Trump Soho etc.

They were liutenants of the Russian Mafia Boss of Bosses Semyon Mogilevich as indeed Trump DeFacto was. A lot left out of Cohen's book.

Muahahaha

A new BBC 3 part documentary the called Trump Takes on the World will air on BBC2 on Wednesday at 9pm. Theresa May and other world leaders who dealt with Trump have taken part.

With testimony from a who’s who of world leaders and senior US officials, it offers an unmediated reflection of Trump shorn of political hypocrisies.

It was not just May who found Trump unsettling: to European diplomatic observers, he seemed a “strange creature”. And he also triggered alarm among some American officials in the room with him, with one defence official noting that the president’s notoriously short attention span suggested a “squirrel careening through the traffic”.

On Putin

Then, keen to raise the issue of Putin, May asked Trump if he had spoken to the Russian leader, which Trump denied. At that point, however, Trump’s chief of staff intervened to tell the president that Putin had actually called, but not been put through.

Hill takes up the story of the “toe-curling” outburst. “Trump at this point looks not orange but red. He flipped. Furious.” In front of May, he scolded his advisers in what Shannon recalled as “an unseemly moment”. “He said: ‘You’re telling me that Vladimir Putin called the White House and you’re only telling me now during this lunch?… Vladimir Putin is the only man in the world who can destroy the United States and I didn’t take his call’.”

Will also include details of Trump bringing Aussie PM Turnbull and Emmanuel Macron into his bunker

Like May, Turnbull had important issues on his mind, in this case steel tariffs. Taking his chance, Turnbull collared Trump, who was obsessing about something else. “Donald said: ‘Malcolm, do you want to see my SCIF? It is so cool.’ I had no idea what he was talking about. I thought he was talking about a boat [a skiff]. We turned around a corner and there was this big steel box about the size of a shipping container.”

Trump pulled Turnbull into what turned out to be a “sensitive compartmented information facility”, an ultra-secure communications hub, with the new French president, Emmanuel Macron, also in tow. “He said: ‘This is so cool – when you’re in there, nobody can hear you, not even the Chinese. It’s so secret.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/07/how-donald-trumps-hand-holding-led-to-panicky-call-home-by-theresa-may

Francois Hollande also says that Trump was asking him for advice on who to appoint to his cabinet. Sounds like it will be a good watch and at 3 x 1 hour episodes will contain quite a lot.

aloyisious

As of Jan 2021, 5 GOP Senators have announced their intention not to seek re-election in 2022. One [Senator Richard Shelby - Alabama] was announced today, the others, Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), and Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.).

The WaPo lists Shelby as the 4th for some reason, not 5th, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-sen-richard-c-shelby-announces-he-will-retire-in-2022/ar-BB1dvdJ9

Ballotpedia published this.https://news.ballotpedia.org/2021/02/01/portman-becomes-fourth-senator-to-announce-he-wont-seek-re-election-in-2022/

It would seem that Trump won't be able to affect their votes tomorrow, even were they known to be anti-Trumpists, but that's no guarantee as to which way they may vote in his trial [if they don't abstain]

PropJoe10

Unfortunately, Trump has built up such a level of influence and intimidation that there's no way more than 2-3 Republicans will vote against him (at the most). I would say quite a few are afraid of their families safety if they go against him.

Dillonb3

aloyisious wrote: »

As of Jan 2021, 5 GOP Senators have announced their intention not to seek re-election in 2022. One [Senator Richard Shelby - Alabama] was announced today, the others, Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), and Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.).

The WaPo lists Shelby as the 4th for some reason, not 5th, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republican-sen-richard-c-shelby-announces-he-will-retire-in-2022/ar-BB1dvdJ9

Ballotpedia published this.https://news.ballotpedia.org/2021/02/01/portman-becomes-fourth-senator-to-announce-he-wont-seek-re-election-in-2022/

It would seem that Trump won't be able to affect their votes tomorrow, even were they known to be anti-Trumpists, but that's no guarantee as to which way they may vote in his trial [if they don't abstain]

John Fetterman, the lieutenant governor of Pennsylvania, has announced this evening he's running for the seat Pat Toomey is vacating in 2022

aloyisious

Dillonb3 wrote: »

John Fetterman, the lieutenant governor of Pennsylvania, has announced this evening he's running for the seat Pat Toomey is vacating in 2022

Getting the campaign off early with the statement "I'll always be 100% sedition-free".

Muahahaha

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Unfortunately, Trump has built up such a level of influence and intimidation that there's no way more than 2-3 Republicans will vote against him (at the most). I would say quite a few are afraid of their families safety if they go against him.

From what Im reading Ben Sasse has said he is voting to convict and Mitt Romney highly likely too. Then the maybes are Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Pat Toomey. Susan Collins has the least to fear in terms of the next election- she beat a Democrat in her state of Maine by 9 points whereas Trump lost the same state to Biden by 9 points so its clear that the Trump base are not strong in Maine.

Theres also a handful of senators who are retiring and dont have to face any electoral consequences whatever way they vote. Though being hassled by Trump supporters in their retirement isnt exactly an attractive proposition. Theres also another handful of senators who are elected just recently so theyve got 6 year terms, in theory they could take the long view that it will be all long forgotten in 2027 but sitting on the fence hiding behind procedural excuses that the trial in unconstitutional is more likely what they'll do.

Paddy Power have 50-54 votes for conviction the favourite at 8/15 while 55-59 votes is 7/4. Actual conviction with 67 votes is 16/1

briany

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Unfortunately, Trump has built up such a level of influence and intimidation that there's no way more than 2-3 Republicans will vote against him (at the most). I would say quite a few are afraid of their families safety if they go against him.

This is an interesting point. We don't know if these senators would face serious death threats if they did decide to vote against Trump as it's probably not something they're going to talk about, but assuming for the sake of argument that this is true, then it means that a cohort of extremists can control a party by threatening representatives with physical violence. And that means that if those representatives acquiesce to that threat then a very, very dangerous precedent has been set, i.e. that this threat works, and it would be one that will hang over the Republican party for a long time. American politics in general, in fact.

I wonder if lobbyists are attempting to influence the vote at all, given how much we hear about lobbying in American politics, and what way lobbyists would want those senators to vote. If it's at odds with the Trumpist base, then does that mean that the threat of violence more powerful than financial reward? Again, it's a dangerous precedent.