Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Republicans should be warned of the consequences of allowing trumps failed insurrection go unpunished, the result of which will be to embolden them, and trump, and it will be the republican parties responsibility for further trump related domestic terror incidents.

Looking at the recorded video footage from the in-house security cameras in the chambers, rooms and corridors of what happened it might be worthwhile for the GOP senators to keep in mind any working relationship they might have with the Capitol staff, incl the CPD.

If they vote against the trial charge and acquit Trump of the charge, they are in effect telling the Capitol staff "we have no care or respect for you or your lives" and the staff might decide to return the feelings in kind in the future should the GOP senators be at risk again, or even seek a simple in-house service from the staff.

duploelabs

Muahahaha wrote: »

A new BBC 3 part documentary the called Trump Takes on the World will air on BBC2 on Wednesday at 9pm. Theresa May and other world leaders who dealt with Trump have taken part.



On Putin


Will also include details of Trump bringing Aussie PM Turnbull and Emmanuel Macron into his bunker


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/07/how-donald-trumps-hand-holding-led-to-panicky-call-home-by-theresa-may

Francois Hollande also says that Trump was asking him for advice on who to appoint to his cabinet. Sounds like it will be a good watch and at 3 x 1 hour episodes will contain quite a lot.

Watched this on my lunch break today, unbelievable stuff

looksee

Just going back to my previous comment about the Lawyer and the Imaginary Yarmulke, I have now heard what I believe is the actual answer...Apparently he is required, as a Jew, to cover his head while drinking...because, see below, and this is what he was doing.

Whenever observant Jews drink or eat, they typically recite a blessing that includes the name of God before and after doing so. Jewish law, known as halacha, stipulates that in order to say God’s name, you should have your head covered. Based on this fact, it’s likely that Schoen covered his head with his hand while he recited a blessing before drinking from his water bottle.
The Jewish News of Northern California https://www.jweekly.com/

No doubt this will come up again when the defence get down to refuting the evidence.

check_six

Mehapoy wrote: »

Don't say it lightly but maybe the mob actually coming upon Pence and what resulted would have shaken the Republicans and Americans in general up enough to get tough on the traitors in their ranks.

I had pondered on how many of the GOP politicians would have to have been attacked or possibly even murdered before the rest of them would turn their backs on Trump. I'm guessing that there is not a high enough number that would put the survivors off.

They will vote not guilty in this impeachment trial. This is not because they think that nothing was wrong with Trump's actions and he won't do it again. They will not convict because they are afraid of him and his mob and they would not mind if he did try it again.

What level of success would the insurrection have to have achieved for the GOP lads to pretend to take it seriously? It is clear to see that if it had been successful in keeping Trump in power then they would have simply gone along with it. The GOP is a menace to democracy in America.

I'm trying to recall other coups in history where the leaders of the losing side were just allowed carry on as before as if nothing had happened. Generally, if you mount a coup, you either succeed or you end up in front of a firing squad or hanged. Same goes for whoever is in power at the time too. Coups are not like a picnic that get a bit out of hand. If you organise one, which Trump most certainly did, then you must face the consequences when it all goes to hell. A long time in prison is what you could expect at a minimum.

Water John

It is interesting to analyse what would have happened, if the rioting mob had been more 'successful'?
The interegnum power vacuum that afternoon was actually filled by Pence, McConnell and Pelosi operating together as a defacto triumvirate in place of the President. They would have, if necessary called on the security forces of the country to act and defend the Constitution of the US. Trump wouldn't have got far, esp if number 2 and 3, Pence and Pelosi were safe. Remember constitutionally, if there was a stalemate as to who won the election, by default Pelosi would assume the Presidential duties on the 20th.

Leroy42

Water John wrote: »

It is interesting to analyse what would have happened, if the rioting mob had been more 'successful'?
The interegnum power vacuum that afternoon was actually filled by Pence, McConnell and Pelosi operating together as a defacto triumvirate in place of the President. They would have, if necessary called on the security forces of the country to act and defend the Constitution of the US. Trump wouldn't have got far, esp if number 2 and 3, Pence and Pelosi were safe. Remember constitutionally, if there was a stalemate as to who won the election, by default Pelosi would assume the Presidential duties on the 20th.

You are giving Trump far too much credit on what the plan actually was. He merely needed to create time, to delay the vote. So that something, he didn't know what, but something would turn up

That is why he was failing about since November 4th. Just fire off anything, say something that will change the narrative from the usual 'X is the winner, time to move on' to 'hey Trump is still POTUS'.

Had they been able to actually stop the vote altogether, rather than for just a few hours, then you knows? Trump declares a state of emergency, he has to stay in power as no votes were counted, and now the process is delayed indefinitely.

I certainly don't think they had drawn up a plan of taking over tv stations etc, far too much planning in that. He hoped that by a strong enough signal of power, the GOP senators would be persuaded to not vote for Biden (and this is playing out in the Impeachment so its not beyond the realms of possibility), throw the entire process into chaos and then stay on as there is nothing to say he can't.

So I would say that they came very close to actually pulling it off. And had that happened, there is every possibility that the insurection would have spread to other states, like Georgia, emboldened by the outcome of the cancellation of the vote on 6th.

Suddenly there as numerous issues, and local reps start to fall under the intense pressure. Things like 'well, no harm to rerun it I suppose, democracy is everything so lets prove deomcracy' to cover the fact that the were essentially overturning an entire election.

Trump then starts putting more pressure on state reps to get on board or watch their capital torn apart, but Trump can save them. All he needs is 11,570 votes!

Itssoeasy

looksee wrote: »

Just going back to my previous comment about the Lawyer and the Imaginary Yarmulke, I have now heard what I believe is the actual answer...Apparently he is required, as a Jew, to cover his head while drinking...because, see below, and this is what he was doing.



No doubt this will come up again when the defence get down to refuting the evidence.

That’s interesting. You learn something new everyday as they say. And to be clear I wasn’t making fun of what he was doing, I was just curious as to why he was doing it. And given that the impeachment manager from the house Mr Raskins wasn’t doing the same made me think it couldn’t be a thing related to their religion. However, it seems it was wrong.

Water John

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That’s interesting. You learn something new everyday as they say. And to be clear I wasn’t making fun of what he was doing, I was just curious as to why he was doing it. And given that the impeachment manager from the house Mr Raskins wasn’t doing the same made me think it couldn’t be a thing related to their religion. However, it seems it was wrong.

Maybe he's showing that he's more religious than Jamie Raskin, or he may genuinely be, as adherence to practice and strictness can vary widely.

Itssoeasy

That opening statement from the house managers shows the rioters were there at the request of Donald trump and now they are taking and linking him to the actions that happened on January 6th.

serfboard

check_six wrote: »

I had pondered on how many of the GOP politicians would have to have been attacked or possibly even murdered before the rest of them would turn their backs on Trump. I'm guessing that there is not a high enough number that would put the survivors off.

I think you're right.

After all, how many mass shootings does it take to make them change their gun laws? There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on that figure either.

Itssoeasy

serfboard wrote: »

I think you're right.

After all, how many mass shootings does it take to make them change their gun laws? There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on that figure either.

We don’t know how many because I don’t recall them changing gun laws in any significant way in recent years.

duploelabs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

We don’t know how many because I don’t recall them changing gun laws in any significant way in recent years.

Mainly due to mitch McConnell sitting on the reform bills

check_six

serfboard wrote: »

I think you're right.

After all, how many mass shootings does it take to make them change their gun laws? There doesn't seem to be an upper limit on that figure either.

Well, we all know that more guns equals more freedom! Only when every last man, woman, and child is armed to the teeth with rapid firing high calibre high capacity shooting irons will the US finally be free:
-Someone ringing your doorbell? The time for warning shots is over!
-Someone taking too long to unload their shopping trolley? Eat hot lead, slowcoach!
-Hayfever making your eyes run? Grab that grenade launcher and make those pansies pay!
-Freedom!


You'd imagine that the mob coming looking for their blood would shake the GOP up, but they were into "let bygones be bygones" mode within 24 hours.

Muahahaha

Anyone know if Trumps lawyers are due to speak today or is the full session given to the impeachment managers? The evidence of the managers is compelling but its gotten pretty repetitive today, Im more interested to see what Trumps bumbling lawyers come out with.

namloc1980

Serious question: what exactly are Trump's lawyers going to talk about for their allocated 16 hours to present their case?

looksee

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know if Trumps lawyers are due to speak today or is the full session given to the impeachment managers? The evidence of the managers is compelling but its gotten pretty repetitive today, Im more interested to see what Trumps bumbling lawyers come out with.

This has been extremely well presented and at no stage boring. I can't imagine having the patience or interest to sit through 16 (? 16?, not 8?) hours of the defence.

Itssoeasy

namloc1980 wrote: »

Serious question: what exactly are Trump's lawyers going to talk about for their allocated 16 hours to present their case?

Well I mean the radical left and the stolen election that wasn’t might get them to the first break. Maybe the first guy the last day can enlighten us to what’s in his record collection. I’d be very surprised if they even use half of their allotted time. The House managers are getting close to trying to put 11 pounds of ****e into a 10 pound bag. They’ve made a very good case but would want to be careful not to getting overly repetitive.

Itssoeasy

looksee wrote: »

This has been extremely well presented and at no stage boring. I can't imagine having the patience or interest to sit through 16 (? 16?, not 8?) hours of the defence.

Trumps defence has up to 16 hours. I don’t think either side must use every last second of the 16 hours.

Cody montana

namloc1980 wrote: »

Serious question: what exactly are Trump's lawyers going to talk about for their allocated 16 hours to present their case?

Hunters laptop?

Water John

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Trumps defence has up to 16 hours. I don’t think either side must use every last second of the 16 hours.

his defence has said they won't. They expect to conclude their statements tomorrow. If no witnesses are called a verdict possibly on Sunday. Think Sat is off because Scheon asked for that being Jewish Sabbath.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

his defence has said they won't. They expect to conclude their statements tomorrow. If no witnesses are called a verdict possibly on Sunday. Think Sat is off because Scheon asked for that being Jewish Sabbath.

Right well that’s probably a good call on their part. Can they call people who have been charged over the riot ? I’m just wondering if they could get the actual trump supporters to testify in person. You never know they might bring the receipts that might implicate some of the GOP members of congress who we know had some kind of ties to the groups involved. I recognise that may be tricky legally.

Tell me how

Plassket's referring to Pence's actions on the 6th of January as true Patriotism could well come back to be used against Democrats in 2024 if Pence is up as the Republican nominee.

Detritus70

I'm pretty sure Trump's defence team could walk out on the floor, extend the middle finger, say "fcuk you" and the republicans would still vote to acquit.
This will happen, not in that exact way, but it will amount to the same thing.

aloyisious

If there is a vote to acquit Trump, it'll be a de facto recognition of his statement that his supporters are a staunchly loyal bunch - "my people are so smart -- and you know what they say about my people? the polls" "I have the most loyal people - did you ever see that?" "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" "It's like, incredible."

He stood in the middle of Pennsylvania Avenue on the 6th Jan and incited a mob of his supporters to go to the Capitol building, telling them he would walk there with them. As a result of his speech that day, 5 people [several being his supporters] died on that day outside and inside the Capitol as his supporter attacked it. He didn't even have to pull the trigger.

ECO_Mental

Tell me how wrote: »

Plassket's referring to Pence's actions on the 6th of January as true Patriotism could well come back to be used against Democrats in 2024 if Pence is up as the Republican nominee.

A true patriot would have stormed into the oval office the next day and said if he didnt resign then he would do the 14th amendment and kick his ass out....but no he went in and just had a cup of tea with him🀔 and chatted about the up coming superbowl.

I really don't understand the GOP....and their blind faith to the party..because it certainly is not the country they pledge allegiance to! they pledged allegiance to the GOP party, come sickness or death do us part.!

I kinda put it down to following your local team, it's like if you were born in Liverpool you will only ever support Liverpool never Man United and you will follow them fanatically for the rest of your life. You will only see the good, take for example Luis Suarez he went around bitting people when playing for Liverpool but all the Liverpool fans loved him and could see no wrong as he was scoring goals and beating Man United. That's all that mattered to them. That's what the the GOP and Trump are, Trump pisses off the Democrats and that all they care about. Pissing off the Dems is the number one goal of the GOP, I am sure of that.

Sad!

Capt'n Midnight

The truth about how bad a President Trump was will come out. Everything he touches ...


US could have averted 40% of Covid deaths, says panel examining Trump’s policies

In another comparison, the commission found if US life expectancy was equivalent to the average in the other G7 countries, 461,000 fewer Americans would have died in 2018.

looksee

I just listened to some waffly woman, a R - not sure whether house or senate, weaseling her way round a discussion about whether Trump should be prosecuted, and she could not get past the point that a President should not be impeached out of office. The presenters tried to tell her that he was impeached while in office but it was clear that she just did not understand the point, it was also pointed out that as the Senate had decided it was ok it was no longer a matter for dispute. And she still did not get it.

Meanwhile Linsey Graham is bleating about his house being targeted by a mob and therefore it was hypocritical to discuss Trump inciting a mob. Or something of that.

There is no hope for most of them, they are irredeemably without ethics or honesty or dignity or, in a lot of cases, intelligence.

Tell me how

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I kinda put it down to following your local team, it's like if you were born in Liverpool you will only ever support Liverpool never Man United and you will follow them fanatically for the rest of your life. You will only see the good, take for example Luis Suarez he went around bitting people when playing for Liverpool but all the Liverpool fans loved him and could see no wrong as he was scoring goals and beating Man United. That's all that mattered to them. That's what the the GOP and Trump are, Trump pisses off the Democrats and that all they care about. Pissing off the Dems is the number one goal of the GOP, I am sure of that.

Sad!

It absolutely is like football.
For many (Red and Blue), I suspect it is more of a tribal urge to belong to a particular group and the 2 party system makes it much more likely that people will do so. This makes it much more difficult for people to change their allegiance because it will often have been very obvious who they were affiliated with.

I suspect that as much as 70-80% of the electorate are effectively card carrying one way or another and elections are won more by who is more motivated to actually go and vote than it is by getting people to change who they are going to vote for.

One thing I have noticed living here is that regular run of the mill conversations on politics happen very rarely. When I compare sitting at a lunch table in Ireland compared to here, the conversation touched on political topics at home wayyyy more than it does here. Here, I think, people are somewhat hesitant to show their allegiance because of how evocative a lot of topics are and so they just avoid them. More parties would allow for more ambiguity about positions and so the topics could then be discussed more openly.

Tell me how

looksee wrote: »

I just listened to some waffly woman, a R - not sure whether house or senate, weaseling her way round a discussion about whether Trump should be prosecuted, and she could not get past the point that a President should not be impeached out of office. The presenters tried to tell her that he was impeached while in office but it was clear that she just did not understand the point, it was also pointed out that as the Senate had decided it was ok it was no longer a matter for dispute. And she still did not get it.

Meanwhile Linsey Graham is bleating about his house being targeted by a mob and therefore it was hypocritical to discuss Trump inciting a mob. Or something of that.

There is no hope for most of them, they are irredeemably without ethics or honesty or dignity or, in a lot of cases, intelligence.

Nancy Mace. She just doesn't get that he was impeached while he was in office, it is only the trial is being held now.
Her argument would suggest that a cop could not be tried for excessive force, if he had resigned from the force before the trial was hear. Actually, come to think of it, she probably does think that.

As for Graham, he was impeachment Manager when Clinton was impeached over receiving a consensual blowjob, he now thinks having this trial after the Capitol was stormed and 7 people died is offensive. He. Doesn't. Give. A. Fcuk.

Itssoeasy

The GOP members of Congress who can’t seem to get past the point of the fact that trump was impeached while in office must find shots at the buzzer in basketball really perplexing. Because that’s what the second trump impeachment is like. The shot was the impeachment and the buzzer is the end of term. The senate trial is the scoreboard counting the basket. Just because the buzzer has gone doesn’t mean the basket(impeachment) isn’t good.