Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Water John

Civil law is the bar not criminal.
To convict Trump of this in a criminal court is highly unlikely unless further evidence.

Akrasia

Celticfire wrote: »

Yes, pretty much every criminal trial in the US.

Same in Ireland, if there are 11 jurors, at least 10 of them must agree that the accused is guilty before the court can convict them

Water John

The same mistake is made here with Tribunals esp as they are usually chaired by a Judge. However, the Tribunal concludes on the likely events not beyond, reasonable doubt.
Impeachment has nothing to do with criminal law.

Brian?

Water John wrote: »

Civil law is the bar not criminal.
To convict Trump of this in a criminal court is highly unlikely unless further evidence.

The family of the dead officer should sue him for wrongful death. I imagine they’ll easily get financing to sue him.

Detritus70

aloyisious wrote: »

It might simply be that they are spineless and talk out of both sides of their mouths. I can't help but say that he's an excellent judge of character, after a fashion.

Trump is an appalling judge of character. He just surrounds himself with spineless toadies and yes men who will cheat, lie and get thrown under a bus by him.
Which means he is surrounded by malevolent human scum who are too incompetent to achieve anything and who will also turn against him in a heartbeat if they think there's an advantage in it for them.

Water John

The thing is, off the record, these people will readily tell journalists this and how Trump actually is.

Water John

Brian? wrote: »

The family of the dead officer should sue him for wrongful death. I imagine they’ll easily get financing to sue him.

I'd say the best of lawyers would be willing to work on it, pro bono. Was mentioned on CNN last night, the possibility of such a case. Cases both civil and criminal coming at him from all directions is the way to take him down. Who of any quality is going to defend him?

StringerBell

Celticfire wrote: »

Yes, pretty much every criminal trial in the US.

Okay, I should have been more specific, assumed since we were not dealing with a criminal trial we would all be on the same page. Obviously not, the senate trial is not a criminal proceeding.

Gbear

StringerBell wrote: »

Okay, I should have been more specific, assumed since we were not dealing with a criminal trial we would all be on the same page. Obviously not, the senate trial is not a criminal proceeding.

If a bare majority could convict in the senate, all that would mean is that Democrats wouldn't be allowed to have Presidents, because they would be summarily impeached on day 1 by a Republican majority senate.

All the stuff they already do - total blockading of confirming cabinet members, appointing federal judges, virtually any legislation that can't be passed through reconcilitation, would also then apply to removing Democratic presidents.

aloyisious

If Trump tries to influence the choice of GOP nominee for the 2024 race, would Pence be a viable option for the GOP to sink Trump's choice [even if it was only as a stalking horse] until some-one got enough of power-base to block Trump? I'm not aware of Pence's immediate-future career.

Water John

Think most agree, the supposed system of checks and balances in the US Govn't, don't actually work. But then it wouldn't be unique in that either, when an imposter like Cummings gets his hands on the levers of power.

RobertKK

Trump spread lies and conspiracy for months about the election.
Held rallies after the election to continue spreading conspiracy and lies.
Brought in many millions after the election which he pocketed.
Incited his cultish mob to storm the Capitol Building.
It left people dead and families mourning.
Some of his cult members facing prison.
Meanwhile Trump plays golf, and talks about it being only the start of his movement.
Trump the political David Koresh...

Detritus70

^^^^^^
I used to say that only trolls and morons support Trump, besides white nationalists of course.
I have added traitors and terrorists to that list.
And I don't car what you say, if you support Trump, you fall into one or several of those categories, I won't even entertain a debate on that.

abff

Detritus70 wrote: »

^^^^^^
I used to say that only trolls and morons support Trump, besides white nationalists of course.
I have added traitors and terrorists to that list.
And I don't car what you say, if you support Trump, you fall into one or several of those categories, I won't even entertain a debate on that.

I think you are being far too generous to Trump supporters. Just saying ...

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Think most agree, the supposed system of checks and balances in the US Govn't, don't actually work. But then it wouldn't be unique in that either, when an imposter like Cummings gets his hands on the levers of power.

Well they didn’t fail completely. They took a bit of a beating but technically they held. If there’s one thing I think Americans may realise after four years of Donald trump is their vaunted democracy and all they claim to be unique in is not as secure as they believed. America who at times lectures other countries on democracy and freedom showed on January 6th that even they can look like a tin pot republic.

Water John

I see Lindsey Graham is playing golf with Trump. I'm sure he knows the rules of the golf game, let Trump win.

Tell me how

aloyisious wrote: »

According to a partial [as in part of] statement made during a media interview in connection with his upcoming visit to Trump, he's going to talk to Trump about a new party called Trump+GOP [not GOP+Trump] party promoting Trump's MAGA dream. It seems Graham is continuing to speak out of both sides of his mouth with his usual ease and is probably vying with Ted Cruz for the leadership of the GOP in the future.

The leadership question of American political parties is kind of a moot point isn't it. The majority leader in each house, prominent senators and their Presidential candidate or sitting President all seem to occupy 'leadership roles' but often seemingly motivated by their own philosophies and we rarely see them speak collectively. Their official party leadership often seems to be more of an administrative function rather than performing a significant strategic role.

duploelabs

Water John wrote: »

I see Lindsey Graham is playing golf with Trump. I'm sure he knows the rules of the golf game, let Trump win.

I've said it before, I bet Trump plays golf like goldfinger

robinph

duploelabs wrote: »

I've said it before, I bet Trump plays golf like goldfinger

What is it about golf that presidents like so much?

I get they have limited options for leasure activity and going around expensive private golf courses that are relatively easy to secure is a good thing for the security detail and easier than closing the roads for them to go for a bike ride and less risky than going mountain climbing. But they seem to be well into their golf long before becoming president and security is an issue.

Do they have to sign up to golf lessons as soon as entering politics? If it was my only option for getting out in the fresh air and to feel like you didn't have 20 guys with automatic weapons sat in your back pocket every hour of the day then I'd probably go and swing a club around too. Other than that it just seems like a big waste of time, but any resident of the White House seems to love it.

What comes first? Golf or politics?

ECO_Mental

duploelabs wrote: »

I've said it before, I bet Trump plays golf like goldfinger

You would be slow to find anybody to take on your bet....its well known he cheats at golf.:rolleyes: As they say in the article if you cheat at this then you more than likely cheat at everything else. Hes an open book really on how bad a person he is and its one of the things I cant understand how nearly half the voting public in the US voted for this fraud of a person. But if you consume only one opinion in everything you read then I suppose.



https://golf.com/lifestyle/celebrities/how-why-president-trump-cheats-golf-playing-tiger-woods/

jem

They badly need to ammend the rules that for an impeachment all votes in both houses are by secret ballot.
If this was the case you can be sure that there would have been well over 60 votes for in the seanad

Gbear

Water John wrote: »

Think most agree, the supposed system of checks and balances in the US Govn't, don't actually work. But then it wouldn't be unique in that either, when an imposter like Cummings gets his hands on the levers of power.

If it was up to Trump the US would have become a monarchy, with himself installed as its king.

Nearly half the elected federal officials are actively trying to destroy the country, either to be able to pick over its bones afterwards, or to remake it as a single party theocracy, and they have thus far been unable to do so.

Both would indicate that the checks and balances work, to a degree.

StringerBell

Gbear wrote: »

If a bare majority could convict in the senate, all that would mean is that Democrats wouldn't be allowed to have Presidents, because they would be summarily impeached on day 1 by a Republican majority senate.

All the stuff they already do - total blockading of confirming cabinet members, appointing federal judges, virtually any legislation that can't be passed through reconcilitation, would also then apply to removing Democratic presidents.

Not that I necessarily disagree with anything you said in this post, but it's besides the point.

Water John

jem wrote: »

They badly need to ammend the rules that for an impeachment all votes in both houses are by secret ballot.
If this was the case you can be sure that there would have been well over 60 votes for in the seanad

The total number of seats in the Seanad is 60???

aloyisious

Senator Ron Johnson [R] Wisconsin apparently believes there was NO armed insurrection in Washington DC on the 6th Jan as the police did not recover any guns in the capitol building after the mob left, says McConnel should have a look at what he said condemning Trump as it reflects on Republicans, revisionism is alive and well in the GOP.

L1011

He's up for election next year and done for if there's even the slightest split in to R and Trump groupings.

The other Wisconsin Senator is D, Governor is D, Biden won the state, they only have the 5:3 R-D house split because the state is gerrymandered beyond belief.

He'll have trouble getting the 50.2% he got in 2016 even as it stands; if a split takes 5% away he's gone - but its more likely a split will take 25% away.

Itssoeasy

aloyisious wrote: »

Senator Ron Johnson [R] Wisconsin apparently believes there was NO armed insurrection in Washington DC on the 6th Jan as the police did not recover any guns in the capitol building after the mob left, says McConnel should have a look at what he said condemning Trump as it reflects on Republicans, revisionism is alive and well in the GOP.

Is that the same Ron Johnson who was spouting Russian disinformation during the Ukraine phone call matter this time last year ?

Water John

Bennie Thompson case could be really sticky, civil case:
'Congressman Bennie Thompson addressed his new lawsuit against Donald Trump in a statement released by the NAACP, which filed the suit on his behalf.

“January 6th was one of the most shameful days in our country’s history, and it was instigated by the President himself,” the Democratic lawmaker said in his statement.

“His gleeful support of violent white supremacists led to a breach of the Capitol that put my life, and that of my colleagues, in grave danger. It is by the slimmest of luck that the outcome was not deadlier. While the majority of Republicans in the Senate abdicated their responsibility to hold the President accountable, we must hold him accountable for the insurrection that he so blatantly planned. Failure to do so will only invite this type of authoritarianism for the anti-democratic forces on the far right that are so intent on destroying our country.”

Derrick Johnson, the president of the NAACP added, “Donald Trump needs to be held accountable for deliberately inciting and colluding with white supremacists to stage a coup, in his continuing efforts to disenfranchise African-American voters.” Guardian

EltonJohn69

Poor Mitch.... Trump is not happy

Itssoeasy

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Poor Mitch.... Trump is not happy

It’s a load of waffle and a bit of lying.