Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

duploelabs

Itssoeasy wrote: »

And the timing is interesting seeing as if they were that much in debt and behind why did it take until around the time that her father in law is under the kosh because his position in the ongoing investigation.

And she's in possession of numerous files relating to Alan Weussenburgs financial dealings as part of her divorce settlement, standard smear campaign

Overheal

Mike Flynn: a violent military coup like Myanmar “should happen” in the US

https://twitter.com/justinglawe/status/1399141771997745156?s=21

Tell me how

^^^^
Don't worry, if anything happens, the 2A advocates will step in to prevent tyranny taking over.
Just like they did on Jan 6th.

dogbert27

Overheal wrote: »

Mike Flynn: a violent military coup like Myanmar “should happen” in the US

https://twitter.com/justinglawe/status/1399141771997745156?s=21

Could that not be viewed as treason?

check_six

dogbert27 wrote: »

Could that not be viewed as treason?

Treason needs you to be working with a foreign power against your own country. Sedition is where you are working against your own country off your own bat.

The aim of both is the same, the overthrow of your country's government and legal structures, but treason needs the third party.

Down the years the punishment for both sedition and treason have been equally severe (and final). Cannot see how sedition would not apply here, and to a lot of events leading to and from the Jan 6th insurrection.

gimli2112

Uniform Code of Military Justice
A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

Sedition is defined as
with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition

would he still be subject to this or is he now considered a civilian? The Military don't mess about you can be put to death for not obeying an order. I'd be shot in a week.

pixelburp

I suppose they could try for sedition, but reality would quickly descend once California and the other coastal states withdrew support for the union, along with their financial clout that subsidises these aggrieved, flyover states. I still don't believe a fracturing of the Union is likely in my lifetime, but that's not to say someone won't try either. Another attempt at Stupid Krystalnacht ala January.

What.Now

gimli2112 wrote: »

Uniform Code of Military Justice
A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

Sedition is defined as
with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition

would he still be subject to this or is he now considered a civilian? The Military don't mess about you can be put to death for not obeying an order. I'd be shot in a week.

Could suggestion be considered intent? don't think so myself

check_six

pixelburp wrote: »

Another attempt at Stupid Krystalnacht ala January.

I don't think the penalties should be less severe because it was such a shambles. It all seems like a bit of fun and altogether harmless looking back on it now according to the GOP. They seems to have forgotten the names of the people who died because of this insurrection. Maybe because they were not the recognisable politicians who were the target of the action? At what level of success would the insurrection have to have achieved to be taken seriously, I wonder?

duploelabs

What.Now wrote: »

Could suggestion be considered intent? don't think so myself

If it wasn't, conspiracy to attempted murder wouldn't be a crime

Leroy42

What.Now wrote: »

Could suggestion be considered intent? don't think so myself

It is only intent if you are not a White middle-aged man from the GOP.


If that was a black man, or AOC or a BLM protestor, you can bet the GOP would be calling for the army to come out.

Overheal

gimli2112 wrote: »

Uniform Code of Military Justice
A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

Sedition is defined as
with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition

would he still be subject to this or is he now considered a civilian? The Military don't mess about you can be put to death for not obeying an order. I'd be shot in a week.

The military can at its discretion yank him back to active duty to face court martial

pixelburp

check_six wrote: »

I don't think the penalties should be less severe because it was such a shambles. It all seems like a bit of fun and altogether harmless looking back on it now according to the GOP. They seems to have forgotten the names of the people who died because of this insurrection. Maybe because they were not the recognisable politicians who were the target of the action? At what level of success would the insurrection have to have achieved to be taken seriously, I wonder?

I never said the penalties shouldn't be severe; every single man and woman should be made an example of, every statute or law thrown at them - stick them for parking fines if the courts have to. But I call it Stupid Kristallnacht because by and large, it was bleakly hilarious how inept these people were. Many live-streaming and openly broadcasting the evidence of their actions to social media, while if they really were organised (instead of weekend warriors playing dress-up via the army surplus stores) they could have easily captured politicians before a response was made. I'm grateful for American Democracy - or whatever's left of it - that nobody in the group figured on downloading a map of the Capital interior, but like their Dear Leader, these people were & are idiots.

Itssoeasy

So that’s Mike Flynn flapping his gums and Matt gaetz talking about the 2nd amendment and how they should use it against Silicon Valley. I can’t remember the exact percentage but in a recent poll a decent sized number of Americans believe a storm is coming and it’s not one that met Eireann could forecast. It’s utter bizarro world stuff. There was a shooting in Miami over the weekend where two people died and around 20 were injured, and when I read the alert I didn’t even react because people being killed should shock you, but in America its so common it’s not shocking.

Leroy42

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So that’s Mike Flynn flapping his guns and Matt gaetz talking about the 2nd amendment and how they should use it against Silicon Valley. I can’t remember the exact percentage but in a recent poll a decent sized number of Americans believe a storm is coming and it’s not one that met Eireann could forecast. It’s utter bizarro world stuff. There was a shooting in Miami over the weekend where two people died and around 20 were injured, and when I read the alert I didn’t even react because people being killed should shock you, but in America its so common it’s not shocking.

And don't forget Trump himself said that should HC win his supporters would have to invoke Art 2 to deal with it.

This is something new, this isn't a new phase. Its just more obvious now as they lack actual power so are threatening the state itself rather than individuals

aloyisious

I'm reading on F/B a report that the Dems managed to stymie the voting plans of the GOP in Texas's legislature and Governor Greg Abbott saying he will defund the legislature for not passing the GOP's state voting legislation changes. Abbott tweeted "I will veto article 10 of the budget passed by the legislature. Article 10 funds the legislative branch. No pay for those who abandon their responsibilities"

.It's possible that the result for the Dems may be only a holding action which the GOP will try to get around. The F/B report is based on a NYT report which is behind a firewall. I can't see the block being liked by the former president or Mitch McConnell.

Overheal

Trump seems to think he will be back in office on August. At least that’s what he’s whispering to his small donors who buy into the big lie.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-is-reportedly-telling-people-he-will-be-reinstated-as-president-by-august/

PropJoe10

Poor ol' Donie O'Sullivan being sent to that QAnon rally. That nonsense that Sidney Powell is spouting is horrific stuff. Syphilis of the brain seems to have really overtaken her and the rest of these clowns.

Professor Moriarty

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Poor ol' Donie O'Sullivan being sent to that QAnon rally. That nonsense that Sidney Powell is spouting is horrific stuff. Syphilis of the brain seems to have really overtaken her and the rest of these clowns.

Flynn could be electrocuted for that. Theoretically. But still though.

PintOfView

It would make you despair for the future of mankind when Trump is considered credible
by a very significant minority of people in an advanced country like the US.

From the relatively stable perspective we enjoy in Ireland it might have been difficult to understand how
one man was able to take a big country like Germany along the road to madness, a mere 80 years ago.

However, looking at the US this past 4 years, where the leader of that country didn't appear
to adhere to even minimum standards of truth, and reason, and logic, and was aided and abetted
by a Republican party whose politicians displayed little or no integrity, it puts things in perspective!

On day 2 of his tenure he was labelling as fake news any reports that contradicted his claims
to have had the biggest inauguration rally ever. And his supporters didn't bat an eyelid, and were
happy to accept this lie, and 30,000 more over the next 4 years.

How can we place any expectation of integrity on other big countries like China or Russia, when the so called
'leader of the free world' has shown that blatant lying, cheating and hypocrisy are an acceptable mo in the US?

And to add insult to injury, you have a large cohort of those people calling themselves Christians!!
Since when is it Christian to lie and cheat and be a hypocrite, and to cast doubt on the truth?
And what kind of mental gymnastics does it take for a 'Christian' to buy into that baloney?

Sorry for the rant, just exasperated at a country I would have expected more from!

Tell me how

PintOfView wrote: »

It would make you despair for the future of mankind when Trump is considered credible
by a very significant minority of people in an advanced country like the US.

From the relatively stable perspective we enjoy in Ireland it might have been difficult to understand how
one man was able to take a big country like Germany along the road to madness, a mere 80 years ago.

However, looking at the US this past 4 years, where the leader of that country didn't appear
to adhere to even minimum standards of truth, and reason, and logic, and was aided and abetted
by a Republican party whose politicians displayed little or no integrity, it puts things in perspective!

On day 2 of his tenure he was labelling as fake news any reports that contradicted his claims
to have had the biggest inauguration rally ever. And his supporters didn't bat an eyelid, and were
happy to accept this lie, and 30,000 more over the next 4 years.

How can we place any expectation of integrity on other big countries like China or Russia, when the so called
'leader of the free world' has shown that blatant lying, cheating and hypocrisy are an acceptable mo in the US?

And to add insult to injury, you have a large cohort of those people calling themselves Christians!!
Since when is it Christian to lie and cheat and be a hypocrite, and to cast doubt on the truth?
And what kind of mental gymnastics does it take for a 'Christian' to buy into that baloney?

Sorry for the rant, just exasperated at a country I would have expected more from!

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice.......

And as for fooling me literally thousands of times. What can you say about that?

The supporters are one thing, many of those don't stop and think, they just go with what their party is telling them and at least then they have a position and they belong to a club.

I was thinking of what it takes for the likes of Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy to say what they say at times. And I reckon that it's because they are not burdened with feeling what they say has to stand up to scrutiny. They just don't care if it looks ridiculous or is suggested to be a lie. They just, don't care.

Ted Cruz argued recently how freedom of choice means people cannot and should not be forced to wear a mask, this from the party who want to force women to have babies they don't want to have. How could you defend holding two such positions? It's only difficult if you are burdened with trying to reconcile both positions. If you don't you never even think about the polarised nature of them.

aloyisious

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Poor ol' Donie O'Sullivan being sent to that QAnon rally. That nonsense that Sidney Powell is spouting is horrific stuff. Syphilis of the brain seems to have really overtaken her and the rest of these clowns.

Sailing even closer to the wind than he's done in the past. It'd be good to hear from the serving top brass and their retired equivalent strong condemnations of his statement and apparent ill-will toward the existing Biden administration. Cancellation of his membership of any and all defence related clubs, whether private or retired officer-type, should be the order of the day. It'd be up to Sec Def to decide whether any existing passes to the Pentagon and all US Military Bases are revoked on the grounds that he is a threat to good order and discipline within the US Military.

Patrick2010

Overheal wrote: »

Trump seems to think he will be back in office on August. At least that’s what he’s whispering to his small donors who buy into the big lie.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-is-reportedly-telling-people-he-will-be-reinstated-as-president-by-august/

He’s laying the groundwork for another insurrection, encouraging some crazy Qanon supporters to do something spectacular

amandstu

PintOfView wrote: »

It would make you despair for the future of mankind when Trump is considered credible
by a very significant minority of people in an advanced country like the US.

From the relatively stable perspective we enjoy in Ireland it might have been difficult to understand how
one man was able to take a big country like Germany along the road to madness, a mere 80 years ago.

However, looking at the US this past 4 years, where the leader of that country didn't appear
to adhere to even minimum standards of truth, and reason, and logic, and was aided and abetted
by a Republican party whose politicians displayed little or no integrity, it puts things in perspective!

On day 2 of his tenure he was labelling as fake news any reports that contradicted his claims
to have had the biggest inauguration rally ever. And his supporters didn't bat an eyelid, and were
happy to accept this lie, and 30,000 more over the next 4 years.

How can we place any expectation of integrity on other big countries like China or Russia, when the so called
'leader of the free world' has shown that blatant lying, cheating and hypocrisy are an acceptable mo in the US?

And to add insult to injury, you have a large cohort of those people calling themselves Christians!!
Since when is it Christian to lie and cheat and be a hypocrite, and to cast doubt on the truth?
And what kind of mental gymnastics does it take for a 'Christian' to buy into that baloney?

Sorry for the rant, just exasperated at a country I would have expected more from!

Agreed,but you seem to expect better from Christians than others?

Based on what evidence?

spacecoyote

amandstu wrote: »

Agreed,but you seem to expect better from Christians than others?

Based on what evidence?

Assume it's tied to the fact that a large cohort of his support seem to be ardent "bible basher" style Christians who hold up their religion as fundamental to their belief system, except when it comes to their choice of political leader.

They're happy to be holier-than-thou on all fronts but turn a blind eye to anti-Christian behaviour if it means owning the libs

Quin_Dub

spacecoyote wrote: »

Assume it's tied to the fact that a large cohort of his support seem to be ardent "bible basher" style Christians who hold up their religion as fundamental to their belief system, except when it comes to their choice of political leader.

They're happy to be holier-than-thou on all fronts but turn a blind eye to anti-Christian behaviour if it means owning the libs

There's actually quite a significant amount of Evidence that the "extremely religious" are far more susceptible to Conspiracy theories and to getting caught up by Demagogues than a more secular person.

Their brain chemistry and wiring is actually different - Basically, according to the research the parts of the brain associated with Critical thinking are under developed in the hyper-religious compared to others.

At a simple level as kids they are told that the answer to any complex question is "Gods Will" or "Gods Plan" etc. and that challenging that position is sinful so they never actually exercise and develop the parts of the brain used in Critical thinking.

And then as Adults they credulously believe everything they are told as long as it basically aligns with their general moral compass , once sucked in to the lies , the Overton window begins to shift on them and they are off down the QANON rabbit holes..

PintOfView

amandstu wrote: »

Agreed,but you seem to expect better from Christians than others?

Based on what evidence?

As regard expecting better from Christians, there are a couple of things.

I think any community has a right to expect integrity from everyone, regardless of beliefs, etc.,
and this is especially so when it comes to public representatives, and their vocal supporters.

I don't expect more from Christians, or any other religious group, I'd merely expect the same!

However thanks to an Irish upbringing I'm perfectly familiar with Christian values, and so I find
it grossly hypocritical when someone claims to be a Christian, and yet goes on to support the
lies and dishonesty, and complete lack of integrity, as displayed by Trump and his entourage.

AlfaZen

PintOfView wrote: »

As regard expecting better from Christians, there are a couple of things.

I think any community has a right to expect integrity from everyone, regardless of beliefs, etc.,
and this is especially so when it comes to public representatives, and their vocal supporters.

I don't expect more from Christians, or any other religious group, I'd merely expect the same!

However thanks to an Irish upbringing I'm perfectly familiar with Christian values, and so I find
it grossly hypocritical when someone claims to be a Christian, and yet goes on to support the
lies and dishonesty, and complete lack of integrity, as displayed by Trump and his entourage.

But the whole of Christianity was built around lies and dishonesty from the start. So is it really surprising.

In general Christians have an ability to turn a blind eye to "non-Christian" behavior when its one of their own. Just look at what was going on in this country right up until the late 1990's.

PintOfView

AlfaZen wrote: »

But the whole of Christianity was built around lies and dishonesty from the start. So is it really surprising.

In general Christians have an ability to turn a blind eye to "non-Christian" behavior when its one of their own. Just look at what was going on in this country right up until the late 1990's.

I think we're in danger of going off topic here, but here is my tuppence.

I don't agree the whole of Christianity was built around lies and dishonesty.
I think that, in common with other religions, the basic messages are good and well meaning.

In the past, in Ireland, in addition to the abuse we're all familiar with,
there were countless examples of good work done by selfless members of the church,
and at a time that the state wasn't in a position to do that work, due to lack of resources, etc.

I completely agree that there was a very dark side to that equation, but I'm not of the opinion
we should completely ignore the good side, and the debt we owe the good members of the Church.

My whole point was calling out the people who claim to be Christians, but who still, as you say,
turn a blind eye to 'non-Christian' and downright corrupt behaviour.
And I would apply this to members of any religion, or any code of conduct, who tolerate and support that behaviour.

pixelburp

In actual Donald Trump news: his "blackjack and hookers" move, to create his own social-media outlet, has been shuttered after a mere 29 days. It didn't even last a calendar month, yet this is the man GOP leaning Americans worship as a successful business-man?