Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Hurrache

sondagefaux wrote: »

Calling us 'the Irish'? Always a sure sign...

No idea what you're talking about.
Edited due to crossed wires.

sondagefaux

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I mean nearly all pharma companies screw up, but presumably they take a break now and then...
https://www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca

Also...

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Bragar Eagel & Squire, P.C., a nationally recognized shareholder rights law firm, announces that a class action lawsuit has been filed in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York on behalf of investors that purchased AstraZeneca PLC (NASDAQ: AZN) American Depository Shares (“ADSs”) between May 21, 2020 and November 20, 2020 (the “Class Period”). Investors have until March 29, 2021 to apply to the Court to be appointed as lead plaintiff in the lawsuit.
...

AstraZeneca is one of the largest biopharmaceutical companies in the world and was one of the early front-runners in the race to develop a COVID-19 vaccine. In April 2020, the Company partnered with Oxford University to develop a potential recombinant adenovirus vaccine for the virus, later dubbed AZD1222.

On November 23, 2020, AstraZeneca issued a release announcing the results of an interim analysis of its ongoing trial for AZD1222. The announcement immediately began to raise questions among analysts and industry experts. AstraZeneca disclosed that the interim analysis involved two smaller scale trials in disparate locales (the United Kingdom and Brazil) that, for unexplained reasons, employed two different dosing regimens. One clinical trial provided patients a half dose of AZD1222 followed by a full dose, while the other trial provided two full doses. Counterintuitively, AstraZeneca claimed that the half dosing regimen was substantially more effective at preventing COVID-19 at 90% efficacy than the full dosing regimen, which had achieved just 62% efficacy.

In the days that followed, additional revelations were made regarding problems with AstraZeneca’s AZD1222 clinical trials. For example, the differing dosing regimens were revealed to be due to a manufacturing error rather than trial design. Also, the half-strength dose had not been tested in people over the age of 55 – despite the fact that this population was the most vulnerable to COVID-19. Moreover, certain trial participants received their second dose later than originally planned. U.S. regulators stated that if AstraZeneca could not clearly explain the discrepancies in its trial results, the results would most likely not be sufficient for approval for commercial sale in the United States.

As negative news reports continued to reveal previously undisclosed problems and flaws in AstraZeneca’s clinical trials for AZD1222, the price of AstraZeneca ADSs fell to $52.60 by market close on November 25, 2020, a 5% decline over three trading days in response to adverse news.

The complaint, filed on July 26, 2021, alleges that defendants misrepresented facts regarding the Company’s ongoing AZD1222 clinical trials and concealed problems that had arisen in the trials, including a dosing error which had been discovered early on by the Company but not disclosed to investors.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210127006016/en/ASTRAZENECA-ALERT-Bragar-Eagel-Squire-P.C.-Announces-That-a-Class-Action-Lawsuit-Has-Been-Filed-Against-AstraZeneca-PLC-and-Encourages-Investors-to-Contact-the-Firm

In the light of this, is it any wonder that the EMA has taken longer to approve than the UK, and that doubts linger about the efficacy of the vaccine in older populations, not just in Germany and France, but also in South Korea.

sondagefaux

Hurrache wrote: »

No idea what you're talking about.
Plus you don't seem to understand what quotes are for as you won't find that term in my post.

That Post was not aimed at you at all. It was in relation to imamnotme's use of the term. Apologies for any confusion.

Hurrache

sondagefaux wrote: »

That Post was not aimed at you at all. It was in relation to imamnotme's use of the term. Apologies for any confusion.

Ah, I was wondering!
Rereading it I see what you're saying, and I agree

sondagefaux

Hurrache wrote: »

Ah, I was wondering!
Rereading it I see what you're saying, and I agree

No problem, clumsy on my part.

iamnotme

sondagefaux wrote: »

But there was concern that EU law might over-ride Ireland's abortion laws, misplaced as it turns out.

The point is those concerns were dealt with by a Protocol specifically guaranteeing Ireland's constitutional position.




Glib and angry answer to serious issues which led to a Protocol clariftying that the Treaty of Lisbon does not provide for the creation of an EU army, clarifies that member states control their own military and armed forces without question, and reiterated the original protocol on Ireland's constitutional position on abortion, all issues that were given prominence by the anti-Lisbon campaigns.



Apart from the commitment made by every member state, the Commission and the negotiating team to ensure Ireland's position on Northern Ireland, sure.



The Irish government, chosen from the Irish people's representatives, stepped in and fixed it in a matter of hours.



The ones now outside the EU who are tearing their hair out over Brexit?

Seriously, and you use the word glib? I'll choose the word parrot. Not one genuine counter-argument here.
1.EU law might override...
2 Mystical Protocols...
3 Untrue, there were far more concerns from the general Irish people. Because the general Irish knew at the time smelled a rat. In the 2nd (both times!) some people believed the Fairy Godmother.

4 Who? Who's the negotiating team? Some Slav called Maros? Or an intern? is there anyone within two thousand miles of the border?
5 Think it was Gove, he had Arlene on the phone.
6 Ask Greencastle.

Junkyard Tom

O'Neill wrote: »

Like everything everything Brexit related, Northern Ireland has and will continue to be in the middle of this nonsense.

Until British jurisdiction in Ireland is ended it shall be a perennial problem.

sondagefaux

hotmail.com wrote: »

The head of the Church of England has condemned the move.

This surely must mean that Ursula will have to resign when this resolved. She is clearly a hot head.

The bishop might tend to his own flock first.

LONDON — The U.K. will not remove export controls on dozens of medicines, Boris Johnson’s spokesperson said, despite the U.K. prime minister’s assertion this week that he did not want to see “restrictions on the supply of drugs across borders.”

Responding to reports the EU might impose controls on vaccine exports on Tuesday, Johnson said it was “pretty commonsensical” not to restrict the cross-border supply of drugs, vaccines or their ingredients.

His comments came despite the U.K.’s imposition in 2020 of export restrictions on around 100 medicines that could be used to treat COVID-19 on top of scores of related drugs, as reported by POLITICO.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-medicine-vaccine-export-restrictions-eu/amp/

iamnotme

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Until British jurisdiction in Ireland is ended it shall be a perennial problem.

Damn Brits, bloody daisies all over the place.

Chips Lovell

fash wrote: »

the corrupt English kleptocrats have stolen hundreds of millions of vaccines from the EU thereby deliberately murdering tens or hundreds of thousands of innocent EU citizens - how should the EU have expected the British to act in such a perfidious manner?

RobMc59 wrote: »

If van der layden and brussels want to act like tin pot dictator Idi Amin that`s up to them but blaming others for their own shortcomings does`nt cut it.

Can we tone down the inflammatory rhetoric please? It's not conducive to a civil debate.

Thank you

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Let's get back on topic please.

Amirani

Hurrache wrote: »

Outside of the UK, and few in Ireland, few give a crap what the UK media thinks, especially in Europe. And that's not just my opinion Brexit didn't even appear high on the list of EU priorities coming up to the date the UK actually left the EU.

Yeah, I think this is true.

We're in a weird position in Ireland on this, the rest of Europe probably doesn't care. If what happened last night was with Turkey or something and it was Cyprus who had an issue with the approach, I doubt any of us on here would give a crap.

Professor Moriarty

Amirani wrote: »

Yeah, I think this is true.

We're in a weird position in Ireland on this, the rest of Europe probably doesn't care. If what happened last night was with Turkey or something and it was Cyprus who had an issue with the approach, I doubt any of us on here would give a crap.

Exactly. What is of far more importance to the EU and its members is the export control mechanisms that they will publish today. It might be of some little interest to the UK too.

prawnsambo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Exactly. What is of far more importance to the EU and its members is the export control mechanisms that they will publish today. It might be of some little interest to the UK too.

It's the reaction that intrigues me. I mean the Commission are not known for fast reactions and even less so for what looks like fast and OTT reactions. Something has got somebody so riled up that they literally pressed 'fire' without considering the consequences. And even more so when you consider that a route into GB via NI for vaccines is on the outskirts of likelihood. All very strange.

Professor Moriarty

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's the reaction that intrigues me. I mean the Commission are not known for fast reactions and even less so for what looks like fast and OTT reactions. Something has got somebody so riled up that they literally pressed 'fire' without considering the consequences. And even more so when you consider that a route into GB via NI for vaccines is on the outskirts of likelihood. All very strange.

Yeah. I think behind it all the EU might have information that shows they were shafted by the UK and/or AZ. Only explanation for their obvious anger and, from the outside, an OTT reaction.

peter kern

https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

a good article on the vaccine buying, usa vs eu vs uk
kind of showing where eu did well and not so well and where it got outmaneuvered because it was to slow to respond.

Ben Done

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah. I think behind it all the EU might have information that shows they were shafted by the UK and/or AZ. Only explanation for their obvious anger and, from the outside, an OTT reaction.

That was my immediate reaction - how badly have the British behaved to provoke an intemperate response like that?


My first thought was to check arethebritsatitagain.com just to independently verify that my reaction wasn't coloured by my feelings toward the ruling class in Britain, which, while never warm, have hit an all time low since Johnson was crowned PM.

FrancieBrady

Has anyone seen a comment from our Commissioner, surely her phone should be ringing off the hook?

Professor Moriarty

Ben Done wrote: »

That was my immediate reaction - how badly have the British behaved to provoke an intemperate response like that?


My first thought was to check arethebritsatitagain.com just to independently verify that my reaction wasn't coloured by my feelings toward the ruling class in Britain, which, while never warm, have hit an all time low since Johnson was crowned PM.

You and me.

HalfAndHalf

I see that this morning we’re still pointing fingers at the Brits being the cause of the AZ situation. I guess some will always blindly follow the EC and the fact it can do no wrong even though this entire week has shown it can and if it wants it can act as Trump and Putin as it likes.

The EC are the ones at fault in the slow delivery of vaccines, not just AZ. If they had proof it was the Brits they would have made that public. They went on about publishing the contract enough.

How about for once some of you actually just admit the EC are at fault and move on.

Embarrassing.

listermint

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

I see that this morning we’re still pointing fingers at the Brits being the cause of the AZ situation. I guess some will always blindly follow the EC and the fact it can do no wrong even though this entire week has shown it can and if it wants it can act as Trump and Putin as it likes.

The EC are the ones at fault in the slow delivery of vaccines, not just AZ. If they had proof it was the Brits they would have made that public. They went on about publishing the contract enough.

How about for once some of you actually just admit the EC are at fault and move on.

Embarrassing.

I know right. The UK government losing their **** about the EU saying theyll restrict supplies from exiting the SM region.

And the UK government already restricting supplies exiting their borders.

I know right... Mad isn't it. Right.

peter kern

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah. I think behind it all the EU might have information that shows they were shafted by the UK and/or AZ. Only explanation for their obvious anger and, from the outside, an OTT reaction.

so far i can not see the uk shafted the eu, they just signed a contract 3 month earlier.
in which way are they to blame for signing a contract faster...
and if you think its smart by the eu to defend its contract you have to agree that the uk does the same as they singed the contract first.

schmoo2k

listermint wrote: »

I know right. The UK government losing their **** about the EU saying theyll restrict supplies from exiting the SM region.

And the UK government already restricting supplies exiting their borders.

I know right... Mad isn't it. Right.

Are we back to fish now?

prawnsambo

peter kern wrote: »

so far i can not see the uk shafted the eu, they just signed a contract 3 month earlier.
in which way are they to blame for signing a contract faster...
and if you think its smart by the eu to defend its contract you have to agree that the uk does the same as they singed the contract first.

The issue may be that supplies for the UK contract were taken from production for the EU contract in the EU (Belgium specifically). We have only seen the EU contract, and that specifically states that no other contract will interfere with it. Also stating that EU locations will supply the EU contract. Now there may be clauses in the UK contract that state that it can be fulfilled from EU based production facilities, in which case, that would seem in contravention of the EU contract. I'm only reading between the lines here, but the OTT reaction would seem to indicate something of this sort.

Detritus70

SNIP. Don't just paste links and make ad hominem comments here please.

ThePanjandrum

Can I just say that the Bits have used less than 9 million doses of vaccine in total and have some, but not a lot in store. The UK plants are supposed to be producing about 2 million doses per week. The UK is supposed to have had some vaccine from the EU but AstraZeneca say that this was from "unused capacity" and it can hardly have been much anyway.
So claims of huge amounts of theft of EU vaccine are, to put it mildly, overdone.

tubercolossus

In news that will surprise absolutely nobody, Arlene wants Johnson to repeal A16, because 'they said they were gonna do it sir"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/arlene-foster-urges-boris-johnson-to-replace-covid-ni-protocol

tubercolossus

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Can I just say that the Bits have used less than 9 million doses of vaccine in total and have some, but not a lot in store. The UK plants are supposed to be producing about 2 million doses per week. The UK is supposed to have had some vaccine from the EU but AstraZeneca say that this was from "unused capacity" and it can hardly have been much anyway.
So claims of huge amounts of theft of EU vaccine are, to put it mildly, overdone.

You can say anything you want. Have you any evidence to back it up?

HalfAndHalf

Detritus70 wrote: »

Snipped post.

This is the problem. Anyone that criticised the people working on our behalf are anti-eu!! What a one eyed mindset!

Sure you’ll give out about Irish banks or FF/FG etc. yet the sun shines out the EC backsides. It’s ridiculous and as I said, embarrassing!

Professor Moriarty

tubercolossus wrote: »

In news that will surprise absolutely nobody, Arlene wants Johnson to repeal A16, because 'they said they were gonna do it sir"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/arlene-foster-urges-boris-johnson-to-replace-covid-ni-protocol

This is Johnson in the Commons 17 days ago:

"What I can say, what I can confirm to him, is that if there are problems that we believe are disproportionate, then we will have no hesitation in invoking Article 16."