Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

MrMusician18

sondagefaux wrote: »

Some good Brexit news, for the Netherlands and Austria, which are both offering incentive packages for British firms to relocate.

The Guardian has spoken to about 500 companies in the past weeks who are planning to move some or all of their business operations to the EU, sometimes making staff in Britain redundant in the process.

A spokesperson for a Netherlands agency also tells how some of the companies that have enquired about setting up there are Asian or US companies that were planning to invest in Britain, but have decided to invest in the Netherlands instead.

Business lost, jobs lost, investment lost, tax revenues lost.

But Britain's Brexit losses are the EU's gain!

A big thank you to all Leave voters!

Things are so bad that five of the largest UK business groups have warned the UK government of the difficulties if the situation doesn't change.

Bit late now lads...



https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/30/uk-firms-plan-to-shift-across-channel-after-brexit-chaos

In other good Brexit news, the UK govt has announced that it intends to apply for membership is CP TPP.

Good luck to them I say, I wish them well in their endeavours.

schmoo2k

MrMusician18 wrote: »

In other good Brexit news, the UK govt has announced that it intends to apply for membership is CP TPP.

Good luck to them I say, I wish them well in their endeavours.

I wonder if the USA joining is back on the cards?

McGiver

Beechwoodspark wrote:

The line is it was a “mistake†that the EU activated article 16....

Proposed to activate. Nothing has been activated. Or could have been by writing a proposal!

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

Whats your take on comments attributed to Monsieur Barnier regarding this strategy by the EU being a mistake and his comments that the UK has come out on top in regards to fishing?

Further to my previous comment (about not seeing or hearing any Barnier comments), this morning I did see him in an interview with France 24. There was nothing in the interview that corresponded to either of the statements you've attributed to him, so I still don't have any "take" on those. However, I did notice how, when the interviewer asked him about Brexit and its relevance to British manufacturing, finance and agriculture, he was very quick to jump in and add "and fishing" with what looked like a decidedly mischievous gleam in his eye.

But I was watching on a phone with a cracked screen - it could have been a trick of the light. :pac:

And referring to your previous contribution re timescales and Brexit dividends, on the first anniversary of Britain's exit from the EU, he made the point that's often been made on here: to date, no-one has been able to identify any genuinely positive consequences of Brexit, but he was able to rattle off a string of negatives.

He has a book coming out in the spring that'll give an insight into the years of negotiations between the referendum and the TCA. It also sounded to me like he was dropping hints that his name will appear on the ballot for the next French presidential election. :cool:

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If I was the EU I'd be saying, 'you benefit from a lot of public infrastructure, publicly funded research, public health systems, publicly funded university graduates, and so on, honour your contracts and don't fuck around with us'.

I think the days of the EU trying to throw its weight around,threatening others is well and truly on the back burner.The weight of world opinion makes for a depressing read for Brussels as seen in this US link.

"E.U. Makes a Sudden and Embarrassing U-Turn on Vaccines" https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/world/europe/covid-vaccines-eu.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16120930048124&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F01%2F30%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fcovid-vaccines-eu.html

sondagefaux

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the days of the EU trying to throw its weight around,threatening others is well and truly on the back burner.The weight of world opinion makes for a depressing read for Brussels as seen in this US link.

"E.U. Makes a Sudden and Embarrassing U-Turn on Vaccines" https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/world/europe/covid-vaccines-eu.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16120930048124&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F01%2F30%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fcovid-vaccines-eu.html

Oh no, the New York Times is miffed!

I doubt more than one in one-hundred thousand Americans know or care about this.

As for the rest of the world, dream on.

Enzokk

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the days of the EU trying to throw its weight around,threatening others is well and truly on the back burner.The weight of world opinion makes for a depressing read for Brussels as seen in this US link.

"E.U. Makes a Sudden and Embarrassing U-Turn on Vaccines" https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/world/europe/covid-vaccines-eu.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16120930048124&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F01%2F30%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fcovid-vaccines-eu.html

The EU will "throw its weight around" when it sees it fit. Just like I expect the UK to defend what it feels it is entitled to, even when the weight of world and legal opinion is against it.

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the days of the EU trying to throw its weight around,threatening others is well and truly on the back burner.

Forgive my ignorance but when did the EU throw it's weight around and threaten others prior to the threat the other day?

RobMc59

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but when did the EU throw it's weight around and threaten others prior to the threat the other day?

Apart from disrespecting Ireland,the Taoiseach,the UK and the gfa,also a massive no-no,threatening Phizer(which will incur the wrath of the fiercely protective US)all in one go I suppose they haven't threatened anyone...

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the days of the EU trying to throw its weight around,threatening others is well and truly on the back burner.The weight of world opinion makes for a depressing read for Brussels as seen in this US link.

"E.U. Makes a Sudden and Embarrassing U-Turn on Vaccines" https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/world/europe/covid-vaccines-eu.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16120930048124&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F01%2F30%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fcovid-vaccines-eu.html

Embarrassing? To whom? The anglophone (and largely British) press seems to be utterly obsessed with something that never happened; here in France ... nothing happened, so it's neither news nor embarrassing. As so often has been the case, British (and other) Europhobes are so completely Europhobic that it sometimes looks as if their waking lives are consumed by thoughts of Europe.

And isn't it curious how this one quick correction to a suggestion (how can it be a U-Turn when nothing moved?) has triggered so much salivating when the dozens of Johnson administration U-turns barely register on the news radar?

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apart from disrespecting Ireland,the Taoiseach,the UK and the gfa,also a massive no-no,threatening Phizer(which will incur the wrath of the fiercely protective US)all in one go I suppose they haven't threatened anyone...

So when you implied that the EU habitually throws it's weight around and makes threats towards others, you were in fact deliberately lying, presumably because you have little else to suit your anti-EU/pro-Brexit agenda.

Leroy42

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apart from disrespecting Ireland,the Taoiseach,the UK and the gfa,also a massive no-no,threatening Phizer(which will incur the wrath of the fiercely protective US)all in one go I suppose they haven't threatened anyone...

They have reversed course, accepted it was a mistake.

Mistakes do happen. You seem to be implying that this was a deliberate act of aggression aimed at Ireland.

It was certainly a misjudged attempt to regain a situation, clearly brought about because of the complete lack of trust in the UK government caused by 4 years of messing and threats by the UK.

What is your thoughts on Johnson stating in the HoC only two weeks ago that he would have no hesitation to use Art 16 if he felt so?

What is your feeling about the UK openly stating that it would break international law unless it got it own way?

What is your thoughts on the UK placing export controls on 100 covid related medicines?

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apart from disrespecting Ireland,the Taoiseach,the UK and the gfa,also a massive no-no,threatening Phizer(which will incur the wrath of the fiercely protective US)all in one go I suppose they haven't threatened anyone...

Please: Pfizer

disrespecting Ireland, - didn't happen
the Taoiseach, - didn't happen
the UK - didn't happen
and the gfa, - didn't happen

Show us the official EU announcement indicating what action had been decided and taken because I can't find anything other than reports of proposals that may or may not have been suggested as possibly an idea that someone might think about.

Dave0301

The faux outrage of Brexit supporters summed up in one concise tweet.

Where was their indignation and outrage at the Tory parties attempts to break international law. Not to mention that the DUP wanted Article 16 invoked a couple of weeks ago, but now it is an act of hostility.

https://twitter.com/MarinaNigrelli/status/1355418320846073857

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

Please: Pfizer

disrespecting Ireland, - didn't happen
the Taoiseach, - didn't happen
the UK - didn't happen
and the gfa, - didn't happen

Show us the official EU announcement indicating what action had been decided and taken because I can't find anything other than reports of proposals that may or may not have been suggested as possibly an idea that someone might think about.

Apologies regarding Pfizer,I should know better as I worked in a pharmaceutical company in the late noughties which manufactured an intermediate for lipator in Ringaskiddy.
As Brussels made the mother of all u turns in record time any announcement was quickly withdrawn.

Leroy42

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apologies regarding Pfizer,I should know better as I worked in a pharmaceutical company in the late noughties which manufactured an intermediate for lipator in Ringaskiddy.
As Brussels made the mother of all u turns in record time any announcement was quickly withdrawn.

Hold on. Are you saying there was an official announcement or there wasn't?

Or is it that there was one but it was never actually made but since you assume it was ready to be made that is sufficient to claim it was.

Is ditching an announcement worse than, the same or less than if they had passed a bill allowing it to actually happen or making the announcement as Johnson did two weeks ago?

McGiver

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the days of the EU trying to throw its weight around,threatening others is well and truly on the back burner.The weight of world opinion makes for a depressing read for Brussels as seen in this US link.

"E.U. Makes a Sudden and Embarrassing U-Turn on Vaccines" https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/world/europe/covid-vaccines-eu.amp.html?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16120930048124&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F01%2F30%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fcovid-vaccines-eu.html

We criticise the US in the same way.

Now, how about the UK? UK has been literally mocked and made fun of regarding Brexit in the American and Canadian media.

The fact is that Euro is the 2nd largest world reserve currency and EU market is one of the largest and richest in the world.

UK has relegated itself intentionally to an economic, geopolitical and diplomatic 2nd league and is a laughing stock in US as well as the EU. Especially with the current buffoon regime at the helm.

McGiver

MrMusician18 wrote: »

In other good Brexit news, the UK govt has announced that it intends to apply for membership is CP TPP.

Good luck to them I say, I wish them well in their endeavours.

Can they try to tow their Isle to the Pacific too? Boris "the world class" Johnson surely has some trump in his sleeve regarding this.

FrancieBrady

Mairead McGuinness getting grilled on her role.
She really has to take a lot of the criticism here for our role...eye on the ball, this shouldn't be happening.

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mairead McGuinness getting grilled on her role.
She really has to take a lot of the criticism here for our role...eye on the ball, this shouldn't be happening.

Where is she being grilled?

FrancieBrady

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Where is she being grilled?

RTE News At One.

yagan

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance but when did the EU throw it's weight around and threaten others prior to the threat the other day?

What's worse is the DUP claiming a high moral ground by offering us a AZ vaccine quota that we already paid for!

They really are all a duplicitous outfit and threatening Article 16 was a just response. We in the EU have to mark a red line so companies that act like butcher stalls will face consequences if they renage on contracts.

FrancieBrady

yagan wrote: »

What's worse is the DUP claiming a high moral ground by offering us a AZ vaccine quota that we already paid for!

They really are all a duplicitous outfit and threatening Article 16 was a just response. We in the EU have to mark a red line so companies that act like butcher stalls will face consequences if they renage on contracts.

You need to be aware that Arlene will take the high moral ground and attempt to claw back the damage she has done to her own base vote. Other than that, she can be ignored really.

Leroy42

yagan wrote: »

What's worse is the DUP claiming a high moral ground by offering us a AZ vaccine quota that we already paid for!

They really are all a duplicitous outfit and threatening Article 16 was a just response. We in the EU have to mark a red line so companies that act like butcher stalls will face consequences if they renage on contracts.

I really think that the EU have been wrong on this, they left to much room to manouvear in the contract and did n't factor in the UK. I also think they acted totally wrong when the reality faced them. Rather than accept the reality, they sought to blame others and worse made it all far too public in a bid to make themselves look better.

But, I think that they will learn a lesson from this. They will actually, rather than threaten with power, actually bake the power into contracts. They won't be caught out like this again. If you sign a contract with the EU then the EU are first in line. You can't guarantee us what we want, then the price drops.

They got badly outwitted on this, and I can understand it, but I do believe they will learn from it.

McGiver

CelticRambler wrote: »

Embarrassing? To whom? The anglophone (and largely British) press seems to be utterly obsessed with something that never happened; here in France ... nothing happened, so it's neither news nor embarrassing. As so often has been the case, British (and other) Europhobes are so completely Europhobic that it sometimes looks as if their waking lives are consumed by thoughts of Europe.

Same in other continental countries. Nothing.

It's only the UK, the now pro-regime BBC and all Tory associated media that are running this story. For obvious propaganda reasons - US vs THEM, to cover Brexit shambles, to cover the Covid shambles and to cover all the looting tory associated thiefs are doing during the pandemic via various tory gov contracts (no/improper tenders of course).

And because Ireland shares the same language the UK media muck spills here and various sorts of agitators (the English fifth column "hi Rob", Unionists or domestic fascists/europhobes) are using that to advance their agenda - which is the destabilisation of the EU and subversion of the Irish membership of the EU.

We have to understand that this is a hostile misinformation and disinformation inflammatory campaign. I don't think there's some grand coordination behind it but the interested stakeholders (UK, Russia) are definitely chipping in or leveraging / amplifying it.

This is exactly the type of info wars the Russians have been on in EU since 2013 or so - fuelling and financing various europhobic campaigns and fascist parties all over the EU from Finland, to France to Italy to Czechia to Netherlands, and the UK (including the Tory Party). UK with the current regime, in this matter, is from EU's point of view becoming as hostile as, an essentially a western equivalent of Russia.

I predict this will only escalate as Brexit impact settles in. There will be more US vs Them in the UK media and every single issue in the EU will be leveraged to advance the destabilisation agenda.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

I really think that the EU have been wrong on this, they left to much room to manouvear in the contract and did n't factor in the UK. I also think they acted totally wrong when the reality faced them. Rather than accept the reality, they sought to blame others and worse made it all far too public in a bid to make themselves look better.

But, I think that they will learn a lesson from this. They will actually, rather than threaten with power, actually bake the power into contracts. They won't be caught out like this again. If you sign a contract with the EU then the EU are first in line. You can't guarantee us what we want, then the price drops.

They got badly outwitted on this, and I can understand it, but I do believe they will learn from it.

I think that it's important to bear in mind that the EU didn't actually do anything here. As embarrassing as this unquestionably is for them, they ultimately decided not to follow through in the face of all signs being negative which is likely the opposite of what Johnson's government would have done.

McGiver

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think that it's important to bear in mind that the EU didn't actually do anything here. As embarrassing as this unquestionably is for them, they ultimately decided not to follow through in the face of all signs being negative which is likely the opposite of what Johnson's government would have done.

Yes, a clerk in the commission (they employ some 40k of them) drafted the Commission proposal which was published. Nothing was activated or put into effect.

I believe the Council has to approve the Commission's proposal anyway

firemansam4

I don't think there are many defending the EU's actions and there intentions to invoke article 16 the other evening.
It was a big error in judgement in the way they went about it, and they have lost some credibility because of it.

But let's be clear here, throughout the whole Brexit period they have acted in the most reasonable and measured way compared to the UK, who tried everything including breaking international law to get there own way with Brexit.

The EU have stuck by Ireland and against many predictions of being thrown under the bus, they would only negotiate a deal that supported the good Friday agreement and protected against a hard border here.

So while many anti EU posters here have been foaming at the mouth from what happened,
I'm certainly not going to judge them harshly yet on what looks to have been one rushed error of judgement which they quickly rectified and have admitted now was a mistake.

yagan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You need to be aware that Arlene will take the high moral ground and attempt to claw back the damage she has done to her own base vote. Other than that, she can be ignored really.

Absolutely.

There's no Tory votes in diverting money from England to man a 500 Km customs border with 300 crossing points just to please a cantankerous cohort that previously held up Brexit.

What's most alarming is how the Tories are becoming overtly sectarian towards their fellow Europeans.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You need to be aware that Arlene will take the high moral ground and attempt to claw back the damage she has done to her own base vote. Other than that, she can be ignored really.

I see you've brought your tilting at windmills to the brexit thread Francie.