Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944682#Comment_117944682

Leo is minister for industry and it is within his responsibility.

He should be directing all Irish companies to exploit the SM and avoid the extra costs and delays caused be Brexit. The VAG issue is definitely one that should get his attention.

Because of the language issue, it is always the first call to look to the UK for supplies, markets, and even comparisons. We need to disabuse ourselves of such activity.

Who is responsible for the VAG issue - the German head office, the UK office, or the Irish office?

There was a time when the Irish office of UK firms was chosen by them to be the sub-office of the Liverpool Office, but that was 50 years ago. Ireland is now richer than the UK (on a per capita basis). The Irish Gov should act to change this type of situation like VAG are currently doing.

Amazon are swiftly moving to open a fully fledged Irish ''fulfilment' centre. VAG - please copy.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945794#Comment_117945794

You seem to have misunderstood my post,I was pointing out the condescending attitude of the tory government.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945953#Comment_117945953

ah, ok. There was a unionist poster on here recently who believed that our Taoiseach Leo should stay out of NI politics (not realising that Leo wasn't Taoiseach) - I misread your post along those lines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945968#Comment_117945968

I see. The Tories, and the toffee nosed attitude that meets the Tory stereotype is one based on being condescending towards others and believing that they are better than ones fellow man. I doubt it will ever change

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945643#Comment_117945643

And if there is indeed a Driver shortage throughout Europe , what's the incentive for a driver to up sticks for 3 months to the UK if they can (presumably) name their price at home?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945516#Comment_117945516

They are under siege though. If they're having to 'defend Brexit' from multiple attacks from multiple quarters, it's not a good place for them to be.

As the old adage goes, if you're having to explain, you're already losing.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117945643#Comment_117945643

What is being ignored here is that the Single Market still has full freedom of movement, open borders (meaning no paperwork) and 'cabotage'. Therefore even a shortage of drivers is not going to impact on the EU anywhere near as much as on the UK.

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946245#Comment_117946245

Yeah, if Brexiteers are saying that HGV drivers are needed across the EU so the current transport crisis has nothing to do with Brexit, my answer will be:

You're scheming on a thing that's a mirage

I'm trying to tell you now, it's cabotage!

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946282#Comment_117946282

They're speaking as if the EU itself is now outside the Single Market, has erected customs borders everywhere and that cabotage is no longer possible. One wonders though how long they can keep can keep up this level of denial and delusion. It doesn't look like there will be any serious problems with deliveries in the Single Market in the next few months, whilst Brexit UK is already on its knees.

Leroy42

IMO they will throw enough money at the problem to deal with it in the short term, get them over Christmas. If you offer people enough they will take the job. Not every driver of course, but there are plenty of unattached, not tied to a particular family/location etc that will take the extra 'free' money on offer so a short stint.

And the Tories, and in particular Johnson, do seem entirely focused on the short-term. Most notably evidenced by Brexit itself where even the issues with signing a deal don't appear to have been given any consideration, the sole focus was on 'getting Brexit done' and they worry about the next problem later.

So you will see, or more likely find out over time when it is all done and dusted, that the larger logistic companies were given funds by the government, much like Nissan, to ensure the problem went away. This of course means that the ordinary taxpayer yet again has to bail out the government but the headlines will be that Johnson saved Christmas and probably caused the EU some difficulties at the same so all is good.

I would not be surprised if the UK were actively trying to attract Irish truckers to cover the shortfall.

Quin_Dub

To be fair , if the money was right it could be a good deal for an Irish driver - Not subject to the same visa/access hassles etc.

But it would want to be very very good money.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946520#Comment_117946520

My housemate is a HGV driver with a firm contracted to the local council. He does 19 days out of every 21. It's gruelling by all appearances. I'm not sure that a short injection of cash and 3-month visas ending at Christmas Eve are any sort of a fix.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944035#Comment_117944035

If the UK shut off the gas in a year, it's still not enough time to construct a LNG terminal and the associated pipelines It takes years to build this kind of infrastructure and for what? To still be reliant on fracked gas from the UK?

We should have started doing this 50 years ago, we're way behind where we need be. Additional spending on fossil fuel infrastructure is not the direction we should be going. That money needs to be spent on the Electrical interconnector to the EU and when that one is done, we need to build 2 or 3 more.

Households are being electrified, gas boilers will be illegal for new builds in a few years time, our gas powerstations are being wound down and their main purpose now is to provide backup for renewables. The interconnector can do this instead, as well as the increase in energy storage solutions, both at grid level, and domestic and industrial scale.

Moneypoint is being converted into a servicing terminal for offshore wind turbines, those yokes are going to make a big impact on our generation capacity and we’ll need the interconnectors so we can sell our surplus power just as much as for backup

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946671#Comment_117946671

Reality check. They won't shut down any pipes because they are also dependent on energy imports from the EU/EEA.

If there are any shutdowns it will be because of basic Tory incompetence and at that stage there'll rioting on the streets there. Meanwhile we'll retain the buying power of the largest trade bloc for our imported energy needs.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946210#Comment_117946210

I thought of that saying earlier today. Westminster made a statement saying that they will not be sending in the army but the fact you even need to point out the army are not needed means it's gone too far.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946846#Comment_117946846

This EU Directive suggests that the EU would have to act on or behalf.

"(3) This Regulation aims to ensure that all the necessary measures are taken to safeguard an uninterrupted supply of gas throughout the Union, in particular to protected customers in the event of difficult climatic conditions or disruptions of the gas supply. Those objectives should be achieved through the most cost-effective measures and in such a way that gas markets are not distorted."

In the short term there might be a threat of the UK making noises about restricting gas supply to us but they'd only be shooting themselves in the foot. Our imported gas comes from Norway via Scotland. But England gets gas from Norway and though the EU and that's where the Tory voters live.

Notes :

The controlling share in the gas mains was sold off by National Grid to a consortium a few years back. The consortium would be upset if Boris cut the supply to Ireland because then they wouldn't be able to make their £4Bn back by selling all that lovely gas imported from the EU. File under "Taking back control".

UK can't rely on cheap LNG because it's a global market and it's not just the rest of Europe importing the stuff.

Long term we are looking at storage of electricity and hydrogen to reduce gas demand. And there's the new Barryroe field off Cork

There's a pumped storage project using a disused mine instead of mountains to get the height differential.

The ESB are looking to store enough green hydrogen in the Kinsale gas field equivalent to 10% of annual electrical demand

Projects in the Netherlands and the UK are testing 20% hydrogen in the gas mains. Reduces need for gas and soaks up excess wind power.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946862#Comment_117946862

The current army is too small. It would only have provided a few hundred drivers which would not have helped much. NI is doing OK apart from a few urban muppets who panicked. Not like Essex where the police have asked people to stop ringing 999.

It's like the govt are fanning the flames to generate a smoke screen.

And right on cue Labour reply with -  Andy McDonald resigns from shadow cabinet, saying party ‘more divided’ under Starmer

What aren't we supposed to be looking at ?

joeysoap

straight question: we know that Dominick Lawson and Andrew Neil are pro Brexit and both live in France

are they both confined to 90 days in 180 in the EU ( or are they EU Citizens)?

Igotadose

Nice article here in the Examiner on what the story is wrt food supply chains in Ireland in the Brexit world. Summary: Looks o.k., more being imported from the mainland, problems with imports via the Landbridge are being sorted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40700465.html

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950036#Comment_117950036

Good article too in the same paper on the HGV driver / transport situation in Ireland. It seems that while some drivers may have returned to the continental EU during the pandemic, the situation is nowhere near as serious as in Britain and they are not expecting any major difficulties with deliveries in the run up to Christmas.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40707800.html

Patser

What the actual feck is going on over there.....

Shelves in some areas empty, large scale fuel issues, raises in national insurance, massive debts run up over Covid response (and still 167 death today!!!!)..... and what does Johnson decide to announce today...

UK space agency

https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1442434407760113665?s=20

Sweet jesus, if this is a dead cat approach it's desperate. Worse even than the Scotland - Northern Ireland tunnel that was recently quietly killed off

CptMonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952328#Comment_117952328

Kinda reminds me of trump and space force . Seems like a case of don’t look behind the curtain. All to distract from the mess that brexit had wrought

Retr0gamer

Yeah but it will mean they will level up. That will change people's lives as much as sovereignity.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952328#Comment_117952328

Remember how the Soviet Union used the space race mainly for propaganda purposes to promote the regime rather than any practical reasons? I suppose we're seeing the same here.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952386#Comment_117952386

But the Soviets actually went into space.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952505#Comment_117952505

Yes indeed, their space programme was actually a big success and they beat the Americans by getting the first man into space.

But it was mainly done for propaganda purposes and to boost the regime.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952534#Comment_117952534

Whereas the US space programme, by contrast, was mainly done for propaganda purposes and to boost the regime.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947800#Comment_117947800

As both were living in France before Brexit they will have had the right, under the Withdrawal Agreement, to apply for and obtain a French residence permit. Presumably both have exercised that right.

(They may also have been naturalised as French citizens on the basis of long residence; I don't know.)

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117952340#Comment_117952340

I can't quite explain intellectually why I find the phrase "levelling up" so distasteful, but when I see Tories use it, it makes me shudder.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117946463#Comment_117946463

I'm not sure that throwing money at the problem is going to deal with it in the short term. In the short term, you can't increase the number of HGV drivers, since it takes time to train and qualify. Jacking up wages simply means employers bidding to attract existing HGV drivers to move jobs; it might affect who bears the shortage (e.g. petrol might get delivered at the expense of bins going uncollected) but it won't change the fact that there is a shortage.

Obviously, the short-term visa thing is an attempt to increase the total number of HGV drivers in the UK by attracting drivers from other countries. Equally obviously, it's unlikely to work; "instead of treating you in a thoroughly **** way, we'll just treat you in a quite **** way" is not a pitch that will attract many drivers from the EU, where the options available to them are still considerably more attractive than even the UK's only quite **** offer. Plus, the total number of visas on offer — 5,000 — is too small to make much of a difference, given the scale of the shortage of drivers. Presumably the UK government knows this — it's not that hard to work out — so I think the temporary visas measure is not so much them doing something as them wanting to be seen to do something.

The fuel shortage is intensified by panic buying, which will abate — ultimately, you can't buy petrol at a faster rate than you use it. So even if the government did nothing things would likely get a bit better in the next week or so. I think the government are banking on this, and when it happens they will attribute it to their wise and far-sighted decision to offer temporary visas.

KildareP

I can't help but feel that the fuel shortage is only going to lead to a wider shortage very quickly.

Lots of reports of snarl ups in town centres all across the UK caused by people queuing for fuel, which is delaying or even preventing other trucks from being able to make deliveries to shops. This will inevitably cause backlogs and backorders to arise as deliveries start to fall behind.

This is on top of already widely reported empty shelves and a reduced variety of choice amongst product lines within shops.

Then we're seeing warnings of the likelihood of shortages of turkeys and vegetables, Christmas trees, carbonated drinks and other difficulties arising out of the shortage of CO2 in the weeks ahead.

All of this when supply chains are traditionally put under significant pressure in the run up to Christmas even at the best of times - presents, travel, people stocking up on food and drink to last that two week window between Christmas and the new year.

With an already under pressure supply chain, now falling significantly behind because of the knock-on effect of the fuel shortage, all the while heading into the busiest time of the year for supply chains?

It really doesn't bode well...