Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Sam Russell

I can never understand how working class voters, who earn their paltry wages by the sweat of their brow, vote Tory.

Of course, Alf Garnet, the fictional cockney bigot created by Johnny Speight, explains it perfectly. He accepts his lot as being ruled (and robbed) by his 'betters' that have been gifted by birth to the right to be born with a silver spoon in their mouths, and all that follows from that. The part played by Anthony Booth (Cherrie Blair's father) of a layabout socialist Scouser gives him reason to be anti-socialist, but it is in his psyche to doff his cap to his betters, and accept their right to privilege. That was satire but based accurately on the time it was written.

Is that type of voter still extant?

Professor Moriarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163730#Comment_118163730

He has no morals or ethics but he does have cunning. Ironically for a man who studied philosphy. If he were Irish, he'd be a textbook cute hoor.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163730#Comment_118163730

He is not stupid, that does not make him intelligent or educated. Understanding how things work is for someone else, he doesn't need to know. It is very clear that he holds two opinions, or no opinion on most things, and goes with, or invents, the one that will gain him the most short term benefit. Having those people who understand how things work is inconvenient to him at the moment, they might advise him to do or not do things he doesn't see as beneficial to him. So he is a loose cannon, banging around dangerously and taking everyone's attention in the short term, even if the long term results will be catastrophic.

ArmaniJeanss

I found the below longread article on inward UK tourism wrt to Brexit/Covid quite interesting. Obviously tourism isn't a huge part of the UK economy, although critical for those who work within it.

Main point - incoming tourist numbers bouncing back far slower than countries from France to Greece - some covid related reasons but even within that there are some mismanagement issues - the perception that the UK is 'plague island' with poor covid management is difficult to overcome especially with the richer (Asian or American) tourist that the UK aims for - also the perception that the UK covid rules on entry are inconsistent and applied unfairly to non-UK travellers. The 'petrol/food/staff' shortage headlines seem to have hit home as well, even if they are not true. Perceptions are hard to get fight against.

And then some Brexit issues that I wouldn't have thought off - EU kids without passports can no longer get into the UK easily for school trips - whilst Brexiteers would point out that it's obviously not an onerous task to get a passport, the simpler solution is to organise your schools trip to somewhere that accepts ID cards. Then there's tax-free shopping (those 'get your VAT back' signs at airports) - rather than offer it to EU citizens post Brexit they decided to scrap the scheme totally which again affects the high-spending Asian/MiddleEast tourist.

UK tourism is crashing. Here's why | CNN Travel

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164264#Comment_118164264

Brit's don't appreciate how since Schengen began there's a whole generation who've grown up not needing a passport book to travel throughout most of Europe and they're certainly not going to bother going to the UK for a weekend if it means organising and paying for a passport. For them a passport is only worth obtaining for a long trip to the USA, Thailand, Australia etc....

Having an Irish passport card is a handy compromise but if the day comes when we join Schengen proper most people may be able to travel on just an enhanced social services card if their only trips are sun holidays.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163884#Comment_118163884

I read an interesting Twitter thread last year about how many English working class people think it is their destiny to be ruled by toffs - and how they are at the same time resentful of fellow working class people rising up through the ranks to leadership positions. So they will look up to the toff with a posh accent like Johnson, but not to the working class person who has done well.

It's a mindset you would rarely see anywhere else in Europe. Most European countries are republics or hybrid republics, with the firm idea that every citizen in the country is equal.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164553#Comment_118164553

Scroll through Netflix and see the amount of British produced period drama series presenting an idealised version of aristocratic lifestyles.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164593#Comment_118164593

Yes, I think we nearly forget just how pronounced and ingrained the English class system is - probably much more so than in any country in the world. We've seen it depicted in Upstairs Downstairs and Downton Abbey and in many other places.

Fanofconnacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118155920#Comment_118155920

What is your source ? I did not realise UK numbers so bad. Debt to GDP must have deteriorated even more. Debt is what will hammer UK in next decade, when markets decide UK is risky.

Fanofconnacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118157068#Comment_118157068

BJ will dump Frosty and blame him for causing trouble with EU thereby allowing him to accept a deal.

Fanofconnacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160032#Comment_118160032

UK will be given a standard "joining contract" with no "opt outs" and with a painfull leaving penalty should they decide to leave again. It will be a take it or leave it senario.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164980#Comment_118164980

Google "UK GDP per capita." Follow the various links, one led to I think world bank historical data.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165129#Comment_118165129

France and Germany aren't much better in fairness.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165129#Comment_118165129

UK economic complexity has been on the decline for a decade. The latest numbers are from 2019, the 2021 figures will be terrible due to further Brexit effect.

If your economic complexity drops your economy is more vulnerable. The most complex economies generate the most added value and are the most resilient.

Compare UK with Germany, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan or even Czechia, not just the value but the trends.

BlitzKrieg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118163730#Comment_118163730

I dont think you have to stupid to not understand the CU or SM. I've met plenty of people I consider smart in many aspects and I actually quite like here in the UK and explaining how the EU works to them is like introducing primary school child to university level quantum physics.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164553#Comment_118164553

The accent is a very interesting one. There is an almost subliminal idea planted that there is an "accent of authority" that reassures people

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165690#Comment_118165690

It could well be a factor. It's almost ingrained into them from birth that someone speaking with a posh English accent has authority and gravitas and is destined to lead, whereas someone with a gruff accent from the north of England cannot be taken seriously.

farmerval

I thin that Boris will leave Frost push and push and when he finally snaps the EU's patience Frost will be dropped like a hot spud and Boris will U turn exclaiming that's what he wanted all along. Pure Donald Trump playbook. Use the useful fool for as long as he is useful then knife him in the back and start again with someone else.

Regarding Johnson being intelligent, I have no doubt that he is, he's really cunning, same as Trump he brings every argument down to beating the person opposite him, not winning the argument, just undermining his direct opponent; it's like the simple slogans, just refuse to debate the issue, keep spouting three word slogans etc. In PM's questions he never debates the issues, just repeats any old nonsense.

The funny thing is, the Tories might well dump him by the middle of next year to get a new leader embedded for the next election. I suspect the longer he's in power the less lovable the public ill find him. Much like letting Frost fight the EU, replacing Boris and blaming him for all the Brexit Blues and leaving a leader with clean hands prepare for the next election is probably the most likely thing to happen. The Tory press turning on him over sleaze is part of the softening up process. There's also the issue that his cupboard probably still has plenty of skeletons.

P.S. Jennifer Accuri is beginning to look like Annie Murphy of Bishop Casey fame, this slow leak of Boris related twaddle is gaining no traction. No one doubts he was chasing her like a dog after a bitch in heat, but does anyone care? Is it news to anyone that as serial philanderer was chasing some skirt.

Sleaze is the most dangerous skeleton for Boris, before he became Tory Leader and won the next election, all the stuff about his character, lazy, always taking short cuts etc were fully aired. No-one voted for Boris because he was a nice guy, they voted for him because he stood for nothing, same as Trump, he made people think he stood for what they wanted. The difference with Trump, bizarrely, is Trump tried to follow through on his promises, the last thing anyone thought would happen.

Boris has followed through on nothing. Even that lady in prison in Iran, once the Tory press aren't making a fuss about it he simply doesn't care.

ancapailldorcha

Off topic posts removed.

BlitzKrieg

"Ruffles the guinea Pig" is now an expert on EU politics.

Enough to warrant an express article: https://web.archive.org/web/20211115002902/https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1521293/brexit-news-ireland-eu-article-16

Fanofconnacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165470#Comment_118165470

Are these no's for 3 different years. To be fair Irl \ USA don't seem to be doing well either.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169009#Comment_118169009

The sheer delusion in that article. I guess we're getting kicked out of the SM market to avoid a trade war that the UK would "win".

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169009#Comment_118169009

Is this a satire article ?

ancapailldorcha

Mod: post removed. Please do not dump tweets here.

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165470#Comment_118165470

Can anyone tell me what I'm meant to be able to see with this table. I can't make head nor tail of it.

Economics101

Me neither!

joeysoap

Or me.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169686#Comment_118169686

Is it meant to signify three different years perhaps? Same countries in each column.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169686#Comment_118169686

I think the column on the left is one yr and the ones to the right are later yrs, with the furthest on the right being 2019. The squiggly lines shows the countries movement over that time period. So the UK has fallen over time from 6th place to 11th and then 13th. IRL from 10 to 16 to 19.

The most complex economies generate the most added value and are the most resilient.

So the UK is a less attractive place, but still pretty attractive.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171319#Comment_118171319

But practically every country the UK would compare itself to dropped a similar number of positions. Proves nothing about Brexit impact