Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

mick087

Leroy42 wrote: »

Which was it. You cant throw them both around as if they are equal.

You originally stated they had triggered it,not it was attempting to.

Keeo going and you will actually get to the reality that it was never attempted, it was stated they had an intention.

Again, how is this different that Johnson stating that he had no hesitation in triggering Art 16 if he felt he needed to?

Boris Johnson was elected by the citizens of the UK.
I do not have the power of the vote to change this.

I am not living or a citizen of the UK.

To answer your question i have the same powers to vote Johnson out of power as i do vote the current EU commission out of power.

mick087

murphaph wrote: »

So you've said. Repeatedly. Everyone agrees it was a a mistake. Can we move on now?

So no accountability just move on?

ambro25

Igotadose wrote: »

Gove asking EU for the current 'grace period' extended till 2023: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-nireland-gove/uk-asks-eu-for-brexit-grace-period-extension-to-2023-bbc-reports-idUSKBN2A312N

That’s nice, not a big ask at all, given the British ink on the page is long dried by now.

So, err...what is the UK putting on the table for that extension?

(£350m per week should cover it, I think?)

seamus

mick087 wrote: »

The UK will be held to account to the uk by its citizens in elections.

Given that the Tories decided to bring the entire UK out of the EU against the wishes of Scotland and Northern Ireland based on an non-binding plebiscite, presided over the biggest shambles of a negotiation since the end of WW2, and then were returned to majority power in a general election, it is demonstrably false to assert that UK citizens hold their politicians to account in elections.

ambro25

mick087 wrote: »

So no accountability just move on?

I’m reading that, and somehow reminded of straw in one’s eye and stick beam bridge pile in a neighbour’s eyes, and stuff :pac:

mick087

mick087 wrote: »

So no accountability just move on?

How many lbs of flesh are you seeking?

Jizique

ambro25 wrote: »

That’s nice, not a big ask at all, given the British ink on the page is long dried by now.

So, err...what is the UK putting on the table for that extension?

Edit: I’d ask for £350m per week. Yeah £, not €, cos I’m nice like that.

They will put equivalence for the city, cos that’s what they are now most afraid of losing

Hurrache

mick087 wrote: »

So no accountability just move on?

Why don't you educate yourself to how the EU works rather than regurgitating from the UK redtops? She's accountable to the EU commission.

ambro25

Jizique wrote: »

They will put equivalence for the city, cos that’s what they are now most afraid of losing

That’s another UK ask, not a give.

What the UK needs to give to secure that, is to guarantee no divergence, and in sufficiently solid form (ie by protocol, agreement or the like), that it would take the matter well past Gove’s 2023 negotiating horizon.

Put aside the fact that it would finish to render Brexit wholly pointless, in terms of control regained.

I’m not seeing it, sorry Jizique.

bob mcbob

It seems that the Tories recognise the impact that Brexit have had on the Scottish fishing fleet and are reacting

A UK government spokeswoman said: "We recognise the temporary issues the fishing industry is facing, and know businesses involved in the export of highly perishable goods, such as fish, will be more affected by delays at the border.
"That's why, following a constructive meeting of the Brexit Business Taskforce two weeks ago, we are working with the Scottish government to set up a working group to understand and address any practical issues facing Scottish businesses, including the seafood sector."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-55912863

I am sure that the Scottish fishermen going bankrupt are relieved now

mick087

seamus wrote: »

Given that the Tories decided to bring the entire UK out of the EU against the wishes of Scotland and Northern Ireland based on an non-binding plebiscite, presided over the biggest shambles of a negotiation since the end of WW2, and then were returned to majority power in a general election, it is demonstrably false to assert that UK citizens hold their politicians to account in elections.

I agree there should be another referendum on Scotland
I agree there should be a referendum on Northern Ireland.

Demonstrably false to assert that UK citizens hold their politicians to account in elections?
No its called the power of the vote. It is the post powerful tool people have.

Professor Moriarty

mick087 wrote: »

I agree there should be another referendum on Scotland
I agree there should be a referendum on Northern Ireland.

Demonstrably false to assert that UK citizens hold their politicians to account in elections?
No its called the power of the vote. It is the post powerful tool people have.

Not in a FPTP system.

mick087

Hurrache wrote: »

Why don't you educate yourself to how the EU works rather than regurgitating from the UK redtops? She's accountable to the EU commission.

That is quite an assumption that i would or do read any red tops.

fash

ambro25 wrote: »

(£350m per week should cover it, I think?)

Don't forget, it was £350m when it was €1.40: £1, it's now €1.12:£1 - or £437.5m a week.

Leroy42

mick087 wrote: »

Boris Johnson was elected by the citizens of the UK.
I do not have the power of the vote to change this.

I am not living or a citizen of the UK.

To answer your question i have the same powers to vote Johnson out of power as i do vote the current EU commission out of power.

I didn't ask you to vote for anything? Did you even read what I posted?

You seem very upset with both the term 'mistake' and also the event itself.

I have asked repeatedly what you would prefer to call?

I asked you why this 'mistake' is any worse than Johnson saying he had no hesitation in triggering Art 16 if he felt like it.

mick087

Hurrache wrote: »

Why don't you educate yourself to how the EU works rather than regurgitating from the UK redtops? She's accountable to the EU commission.

And in who's interest are the EU commission serving?

yagan

murphaph wrote: »

So you've said. Repeatedly. Everyone agrees it was a a mistake. Can we move on now?

A. It wasn't triggered. It was slated as applicable for ensuring pharma companies honour their contracts, a protocol now applied via other means.

B. It was a warning shot to said pharma groups and it had the desired effect on AstraZeneca.

Hurrache

mick087 wrote: »

And in who's interest are the EU commission serving?

Like I said, do a bit of research into the EU.

Pablo Escobar

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Not in a FPTP system.

Exactly. I think they got 43% of the vote and a landslide victory.

mick087

Leroy42 wrote: »

I didn't ask you to vote for anything? Did you even read what I posted?

You seem very upset with both the term 'mistake' and also the event itself.

I have asked repeatedly what you would prefer to call?

I asked you why this 'mistake' is any worse than Johnson saying he had no hesitation in triggering Art 16 if he felt like it.

Seem is a good choice of words but no there is no reason for you to "seem" to feel im upset.

I i believe Boris did say this and he will be made accountable when the UK general elections happen in 4years time.

mick087

Hurrache wrote: »

Like I said, do a bit of research into the EU.

Yes like YOU say.

Hurrache

mick087 wrote: »

Yes like YOU say.

You'll have all the answers to your repetitious soundbites, imagine that.

tubercolossus

I've scrolled all the way to the bottom in the hope of finding yet another post by someone - who's more than likely been conspicuously quiet for the last 4 years of British government lies, duplicity, treachery, and international lawbreaking - stating what a HUGE MISTAKE the EU made when it revoked attempted to revoke threatened to revoke Article 16.

tubercolossus

mick087 wrote: »

And in who's interest are the EU commission serving?

This is the the tired old "the European Commission aren't ELECTED BY THE PEEPUL" trope again.

The EU was set up with the agreement of all members so that MEPs would be duly elected by member countries, and these would then nominate the commissioners. Here's an excerpt from the Parliament's website....

"Candidates (for Commissioner posts) for the remaining Commission portfolios have to go through a tough parliamentary vetting process too.

The Council, in agreement with the Commission President-elect, adopts a list of candidate commissioners, one for each member state. These Commissioners-designate appear before parliamentary committees in their prospective fields of responsibility. Each committee then meets to draw up its evaluation of the candidate's expertise and performance, which is sent to the President of the Parliament. A negative evaluation has prompted candidates in the past to withdraw from the process. The full Commission, including the Commission President and the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, then needs to be approved in a single vote of consent by Parliament."

That's accountability, right there. On the other hand, as has been pointed out to you, UK governments are elected by the people using a First Past The Post (FPTP) system which many consider manifestly unfair and results in the same two parties (the same one party for the last decade) staying in power, usually with less than half of the vote. Also their upper house consists of entirely unelected people, some of them life peers, the others appointed by political patronage.

And you insinuate that the EU is undemocratic....

10000maniacs

Johnson has just threatened to trigger Article 16 in a response to a PMQ from Ian Paisley in the Commons.
"We will do all we need to do whether legislatively or triggering article 16 to ensure there is no barrier down the Irish Sea"

Widdensushi

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

That’s not true we through EU ensured there was no border on this island

Do you think peace in Northern Ireland is more important than fishing quotas?

Don’t forget either Brexit was not something we caused and had to scramble to make the best of a bad hand dealt to us by Brits yet again

Instead of moaning about quotas fishermen should take advantage of billions put forward by EU to take advantage of new opportunities that now opened. 1. Fishing industry is now almost dead in UK that means healthier fishing grounds for us, 2. It’s easier now to take over market the British used to fill, 3. Shellfish fishing in UK has been almost completely wiped out, that’s an opportunity for an island with long coastline in same waters and sea ecosystems

What billions?You can be sure the majority of any funds will go to agriculture and the majority of what is left will go in administration. The markets are wiped out due to covid for everyone, fish are eaten in restaurants and cruise ships to a large extent. Again I am not addressing the brexit deal but the decision that the eu made that so much of the quota should come from Ireland so that Dutch, French, Spanish, Danish etc should travel thousands of miles to fish off Ireland and the UK.

An Ciarraioch

The most laughable quote came in a reply to Stephen Farry: "Johnson says he doesn't want to see any barriers down the Irish Sea, or on the island of Ireland" !

An Ciarraioch

Widdensushi wrote: »

What billions?You can be sure the majority of any funds will go to agriculture and the majority of what is left will go in administration. The markets are wiped out due to covid for everyone, fish are eaten in restaurants and cruise ships to a large extent. Again I am not addressing the brexit deal but the decision that the eu made that so much of the quota should come from Ireland so that Dutch, French, Spanish, Danish etc should travel thousands of miles to fish off Ireland and the UK.

That's just an unfortunate consequence of geography, I'm afraid, in that our marine stocks are richer than those of either France or Spain.

10000maniacs

10000maniacs wrote: »

Johnson has just threatened to trigger Article 16 in a response to a PMQ from Ian Paisley in the Commons.
"We will do all we need to do whether legislatively or triggering article 16 to ensure there is no barrier down the Irish Sea"

Best of luck to him unilaterally legislating changes to an International Treaty.

yagan

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

The most laughable quote came in a reply to Stephen Farry: "Johnson says he doesn't want to see any barriers down the Irish Sea, or on the island of Ireland" !

The only way that's possible is the complete dissolution of the UK, no internal UK border is there's no UK.