Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802316#Comment_119802316

Presumably, he's trying to burnish his anti-woke credentials or something equally insipid.

The thing with climate change is that it's the perfect excuse for NIBMYs and rural Tories to shut down any infrastructure projects. One would think they'd have grabbed it with both hands.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119802990#Comment_119802990

But what if the infrastructure projects they want to oppose are wind turbines and solar farms (no idea what people have against the latter, but it's not like objectors are required to make sense)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119801345#Comment_119801345

I learned to drive in a (by then rather elderly) Austin Metro. All engine/transmission bolts were imperial, all chassis bolts metric. Worst of both worlds. Then again the basic engine unit had been designed in 1948 or so.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803043#Comment_119803043

I never said it was logical from the NIMBY perspective.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803049#Comment_119803049

ehh. Auto manufacturers are not too bright across the pond, either. My 1973 Ford Pinto, it of the same model year as the one that famously exploded and burst into flame after being rear-ended, had the same setup for bolts. First time I ever needed metric tools to work on a "US" car. Ford might've been experimenting with various parts built around the world then.

Sam Russell

There was a time over 150 years ago when there was an expression around the Birmingham area that went - 'If it is not made in Birmingham, then it is not made!' which at the time was basically true.

Not any more. The current expression might be - 'If it is not made in China, then it is not made!'

I fear it is going to be difficult for all nations to repatriate manufacturing away from China, and Brexit does nothing for Britain in this regard. Brexit has made any manufacturing in Britain particularly difficult if the UK move away from EU standards. They already have problems with Certification of Origin of goods, and this will only get worse as companies move their bases away from Britain to the EU and to places like India and Asia generally.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803099#Comment_119803099

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803043#Comment_119803043

Its very easy to criticise people for being Nimbys until something is proposed for your own back yard. In my case it is a solar farm taking up 200 ha or 500 acres of prime farm land in a beautiful piece of countryside. It will stretch across a huge swathe of land right into the heart of our small village. They claim it will not be visible, but you only have to drive around the area to realise it will be an industrial development clearly visible from many angles and very visible on approach to the village from the edges of the mountains. I have no issue with the wind turbines, some of which I can see from my house.

The company got permission, with almost no argument, for a smaller development, about a third of the total, but instead of going ahead with it they have immediately sought permission to expand it, the first exercise was just testing the water, now they are taking the piss - and they are still actively looking for more farmers to lease their land to extend it further. Not that it matters but locals will not get cheaper electricity, it is being sold abroad, they made a cash offer 'to the community' but managed by the local authority - ha! chance the community would see any of it - but people are so against it that they are not interested in hand-outs.

This is a county council that hands out planning permission very reluctantly, but a massive industrial development in the middle of a scenic rural area, yes that's fine, go ahead.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Brexit, but I can't let snide and uninformed remarks go without comment.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803824#Comment_119803824

One cherrypicked example is not evidence of anything.

And yes, it is easy when NIMBYs here shut down pretty much attempts to build housing whatsoever. Your attempt at whataboutery does not change that.

I've been priced out of owning pretty much anything. Listen to NIMBYs is a bit like hearing about Jacob Rees-Mogg complaining about caviar.

looksee

How is your situation not a cherry picked example? You are complaining on your own behalf! And its a Grade A example of whataboutery since it has nothing to do with the subject that was being discussed; there is a world of difference between people complaining about housing in a housing zone and objecting to industrial developments in the middle of a rural zoned area - where no-one has a chance of building houses.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted post.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119801751#Comment_119801751

I am not too sure that oil is measured in barrels anymore. But it is priced in barrels, which is more a reflections of the commodities markets rather than engineering decisions.

Nearly all new American cars but legacy parts will still use SAE units or costumery units. That is partly because of the cost of changing for no obvious benefit. Morris motors in UK used Metric threads and measurements in their early engines because they were originaly of French manufature and it would cost too much to change. I have A BSA motorcycle which has which has mostly Imperial measurements and threads but some parts use British BSW, BSF BSC and otherss use UNC and UNF threads because US and UK thread to standardise during WW2. (It also had metric threads (Spark plugs ) and metric derived threads (BA in electrical parts).

ancapailldorcha

TLDR News have a new video out. The title is a little bit misleading as there's not much speculation on what happens next but it does a good job of indicating the change in public opinion with regards to whether or not Brexit was a good idea (Spoiler: It isn't).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLZOlHhumq8

I don't think Starmer or any politician is likely to champion rejoin unless the winds behind it blow so strong as to drag them along.

Slideways

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803049#Comment_119803049

This still happens now. Work on Liebherr diggers, designed in Germany, built in France but with a Cummins 50L engine which has imperial bolts

The article about the random inspection of trucks at diver is shocking. That’s a biological ticking time bomb

Cookie_Monster

A minor but annoying example of Brexit experienced this week with a well known British model railway trader being blocked from entry in Dublin coming off the ferry due to some paperwork issues with his stock to trade, was supposed to be attending the Raheny Model Show, perhaps the biggest of the year in Ireland. A loss for everyone involved and a trying time for him to figure out exactly what was incorrectly documented.

rock22

In another Brexit benefit, the UK has new quality standards to replace CE but has failed to implement them. The result is certain items cannot be certified for use and some implementation of standards is being delayed.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/29/brexit-red-tape-puts-brakes-on-uk-innovation-and-eu-sales

It is a very expansive to create national certification both for the authorities, as the UK is finding, and for manufacturers who only need it for the UK market.

It is perhaps something we need to be aware of here though, as we rely on UK standards for many items.

Sam Russell

I would have thought that any UK standards we currently use are CE certified. [I may be wrong in that.]

However, we should start moving away from the electrical standards (13A plug) as it is only partially implemented here. We do not generally implement to 'ring main' and our fuse philosophy is different. The plug is the only visible bit of the standards behind the electrical wiring system standards.

However, in my house I have about 50 double sockets, and a similar number of plugs - coincidently - some sockets have never seen a plug. Changing them over would be very expensive, and using adapters would also be expensive and perhaps prone to misuse and so would be a safety hazard.

The EU do have a certified design that is only implemented in Brazil - but it is used throughout Brazil in areas that use 110V 60 Hz and in areas that use 230V and 50 Hz - pure madness. In 1996, the EU abandoned the pursuit of the 'Europlug' as there was no agreement between the member states. The UK claim they have the 'safest plug in the world' which is nonsense, as anyone who has stood, bare foot, on a UK plug left lying on the floor with the prongs facing up. The fact the plug includes a fuse is particularly dangerous as it is a fire hazard.

As the UK starts moving away from CE standards, the NI Protocol becomes more and more important.

Glaceon

My wife bought something in an Irish chain recently which had the CE mark covered over by a UKCA label. I found it a bit strange.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811394#Comment_119811394

That should have been stopped at customs. It has to be marked CE.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119803824#Comment_119803824

Dear oh dear, where to begin?

People forget that farming is an industry. The land isn't sitting there doing nothing (apart from set-aside but that's an EU scheme!)

If you lived beside a dairy farm, would you expect cheaper milk? Why would you expect cheaper electricity for living near a solar farm?

"Abroad" is very Tory.

It doesn't matter where the electricity is used, climate change is a global issue after all and this is replacing fossil fuel generated electricity. It doesn't matter where that happens. The emissions all go into the same atmosphere.

Ireland has interconnectors to benefit from UK (and soon French) electricity when we need it, and also to export it when we have an excess of renewable generation. This can only be a good thing and lead to more efficiency, less emissions and lower costs.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811363#Comment_119811363

The BS 1363 plug is the safest in the world, especially since they brought in sleeving on the pins.

Standing on a plug isn't going to electrocute you. That's a ridiculous objection tbh. Having flexes lying around the place where people are walking is a trip hazard anyway, no matter what plug is on the end.

We're even less likely to change plugs/sockets than we are to change the side of the road we drive on. There are benefits but they don't come close to the costs (and the mountains of waste it would needlessly generate) which is why the EU abandoned plans to introduce a unified plug.

Not having a fuse in the plug means that the only protection for a flex is in the fuseboard, having a thin flex protected only by a 16A or 20A fuse is a fire hazard.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811497#Comment_119811497

That's right. As an EU member, we don't actually recognise the UKCA label and only products with the CE trademark can be sold here.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811864#Comment_119811864

Most companies would just put both on next to each other surely.

Probably just a mistake with the machine that puts these things on.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811929#Comment_119811929

My understanding is that it is intended for use in the internal GB market only. Anything sold here 'must' have the CE label on display.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811935#Comment_119811935

The poster said that the UKCE sticker was stuck over a CE one so the product had both. I wouldn't read too much into one covering the other it could be that all products from that company getting shipped this way have both.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811807#Comment_119811807

The plug might be safe, but it is the rest of the wiring that needs to be safe. Protecting some appliance with a 13 Amp fuse in a plug is not safe if the appliance can take 3 kw - it is a fire hazard - the fuse has to burn out before the current cuts, while a circuit breaker cuts immediately and can be reset. Fuses have gone out of use except for this plug.

The circuit should be protected at the fuse board using a ELCB (or whatever it is called now), that cuts the current as soon as an imbalance is detected between the live and neutral feeds - it is low enough as a human can sustain that imbalance without harm. The fuse board also detects excess current and also cuts the current.

The problem with the UK design is the use of a ring main - which I believe is not normal in Ireland. The ring main is used to reduce the wire gauge in the circuit, rather than using a spur from the fuse board. The UK are alone in using this design. [I am not familiar with electrical standards used in Ireland now].

Another problem with the BS 1363 plug is that it is a single design for all applications. A phone charger does not need it, and it is very large for such a piffling demand. Most phone chargers do not contain a fuse protection in the plug - at least most (all) of the ones I have do not..

I do not agree with your dismissal of the plug prongs not being a hazard. The plug naturally fall with prongs up, and the smaller Europlug (two pin) does not, and it is much lighter, and will flip out of the way if you trip on the flex.

I think the Swiss design is superior, and very close to the EU proposed replacement.

However, this is moving away from Brexit, and I do agree there is little prospect of the 13 A plug being changed in Ireland anytime soon. If I had to change 50 double sockets, and fifty plugs, I could see it coming out at a lot more than €10 k plus, as of course, there would be a lot of - 'While you are at it, you should xxxxx'.

yagan

All the UKCE sticker over a CE sticker proves is that their own cert system is non existent.

Where I would be concerned is where a product only has a UKCE sticker and has been snuck in via NI.

Edit to add I see they're finally tackling the sweat factories on the New Bury Road in Manchester as they were a source of many counterfeit claims lodged against the UK. It's an area notorious for slave conditions and sex trafficking yet it's probably taken trade restrictions to get the UK to clean up their exploitative ghettos.

Hotblack Desiato

Pretty O/T Sam alright so this will be my last missive on that topic 😁

An RCD works just the same whether you have ring or radial wiring, or whatever type socket you're using.

Phone chargers are usually folding now, I wish laptop plugs would be the same too as they're a pain to carry in a bag. A phone charger would have an internal non-replaceable fuse, afaik that's a requirement of approval standards.

10k even with paying an electrician to do it sounds very steep. It's still legal for a householder to replace electrical fittings like-for-like with new (not to add new circuits though) but most people wouldn't feel confident in doing this.

Seeing as we're just spitballing here, instead of changing one 220-240V AC socket for another, and given that electronic gadgets far outnumber heating etc. appliances in the home, if we were starting from scratch we might have a low voltage wiring system in the home as well as the higher voltage for heating, kettles etc...?

On topic - the whole UKCA thing seems a right mess and their refusal to recognise the CE marking as equivalent is downright stupid. This will really hit the UK consumer when it kicks in properly. Might have a knock-on effect here too given that we use the same plugs and are a small market so effectively an offshoot of the UK for electrical retail purposes.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119813020#Comment_119813020

I think it's already happening that many phone producers are simply not bothering with a UK plug anymore, the last few phones and electrical items I've bought online have come with the two pin plug common in the EU. It's the bigger dictating that matter.

54and56

Excellent article and as usual it benefits from the perspective of being written by someone looking into the UK from afar.....https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-westminster-sitcom-has-a-new-male-lead-pass-the-popcorn-20221027-p5btmx.html

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119812039#Comment_119812039

You are aware that there are other size fuses than 13A I hope?

Most devices have 3, 5 or 10.