Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

cml387

William Haig was on Emily Maitliss' podcast unambiguously putting the failure of British Volt down to Brexit.

And he was a very Eurosceptic minister/leader, he pointed in another podcast I heard him on recently that the party had stampeded past him to the outer limits.

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128238#Comment_120128238

I think the guide might have been over-indulging a little. Cognac exports are around €4 billion, Airbus exports are €26 billion and the EBIT is worth more than the entire value of Cognac exports.

The Irish agri-food exports are about 25% of the total value of the French equivalent and over 2/3 of what the UK exports so salonfire's "butter" comment mightn't quite be the bon mot they thought.

mm_surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120133901#Comment_120133901

Well, Kerrygold is only the third best selling butter.

In the USA.

M.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120127824#Comment_120127824

Ah no, the poster is right - sure I'm just taking a break from churning here myself to type this ...

Strazdas

Timing of Brexit was a monumental cock up. They left the EU during a global pandemic followed by a big slowdown, cost of living crisis, war in Europe etc. It's extraordinary that very few people were warning how huge a gamble this was and that the potential for the project to end in disastrous failure was much higher than anyone was admitting.

It's like they threw half the life savings onto a roulette wheel without even admitting the scale of the gamble they were taking.

Larbre34

Oh no, what shall we do with a top class agrifood sector with the global population shrinking and less mouths to feed.

Oh wait.....

That City AM tech article is mostly bogus as well, its the online equivalent of a Tory rag, whose raison d'etre is to counter the anti-Brexit position of most of the City of London financial community.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135305#Comment_120135305

Ya but so many were fooled, lied to and gaslit into believing there was no roulette wheel. How could Brexit fail when the British people are so amazing and perfect.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135706#Comment_120135706

You'd have to say total ignorance was a big factor. Thinking they could safely rupture their links with the EU Single Market and not realising it might be happening bang in the middle of a pandemic and a global downturn and cost of living crisis. They almost deserve the catastrophic fall out from Brexit.

dublin49

Brexiteers were promised Costa del Sol and got damp Arklow,some accept that reality and some don't.If there was a vote on a United Ireland in the morning would the debate be anymore objective or informative than the Brexit debate or would soundbites again win the day.I have sympathy for the Brits and I am convinced its up to remainers to forgo their righteous indignation for the collective benefit of the UK as a whole.

Larbre34

If there were a vote on a united Ireland in the morning, there would have been two years at least of formulated constitutional wording, debate around institutions and a framework for national and local governmental reform to accommodate the new State entity.

Sound bites would have little to do with it, because when we carry out referendums for Constitutional reform in this Country, it is on the basis of legislation, defined wordings, independent information on the pros and cons.

What went on with Brexit, a completely undefined proposal, for a totally blind outcome, on a non-binding basis, I mean Jesus Christ its a wonder they aren't in worse turmoil over there.

If it had taken place in an African banana republic or someplace, it would be bad enough, but the fact it all happened in a modern democracy, a leading global power, a G7 economy and former seat of Empire - well its utterly incredible.

And no, its not up to the Remainers to quiet down and get on with it. They are Rejoiners now and they need to fight harder and dirtier than ever before until Brexit is undone and dead in the ground because thats what you do when someone takes your rights away from you. Its especially what you do if they took away your rights on false pretences.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120136930#Comment_120136930

This makes absolutely no sense. Why is it always the remain side who have to make it work. The Brexiters created this farce and went on to win two elections. Why do they escape responsibility?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120136930#Comment_120136930

I think everyone would be aware in the build up to an Irish unity referendum for the need not to have lies, misinformation and propaganda taking over the referendum campaign. The fact that one side in the Brexit referendum were lying through their teeth, spreading grotesque misinformation and untruths was scarcely even acknowledged at the time - some of those guys should nearly be behind bars at this point.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120136930#Comment_120136930

Firstly there's nothing wrong with Arklow.

Secondly, the brexiteers ploughed ahead with their ideals despite all evidence pointing towards a fall. They were offered various extensions and laughed at them believing that their opinion could not be wrong.

I have plenty of sympathy for some British people but many others still think that, despite absolutely all of the evidence showing that the brexit they created being a bad thing, Brexit was a good decision and I have zero sympathy for them!

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137015#Comment_120137015

Absolutely right that they should accept responsibility.

However, it'll be the people with brains that are forced to make it work rather than the ideological brexiters.

If it's left to some Brexiters you get rubbish like this.

Richard Tice 🇬🇧 on Twitter: "So why can’t the UK remove 4,000 EU laws in a year? Because Remainers in Westminster & Whitehall want to prevent Brexit success Disgraceful https://t.co/mfW2WtieqV via @spectator" / Twitter

They'd burn down everything before they admit it didn't work and leave a huge mess behind. It's what they've being doing for several years now. I don't begin to understand why the British seem to be doing little to nothing while the drip, drip, drip of negatives of Brexit keep coming in. And geniuses like Tice keep going full steam ahead.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137713#Comment_120137713

They should but if we're entering "should" territory, they ought not to have trashed the country to hold their grotty little party together.

Tice, on the other hand, has bigger fish to fry:

https://twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1616724550229573633

Oh yeah, they'll do scorched earth well before even acknowledging that their little project has flaws. I just googled Arklow. I'm not seeing much of a hell on earth there. I'd take it over Singapore-on-Thames.

dublin49

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137015#Comment_120137015

my main point is that when a person or group/majority decide on course of action that transpires to be patently wrong the remedial work required can be hampered by the original opposition rubbing their noses in it as pleasurable as that is.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138419#Comment_120138419

Original opposition were labelled "traitors" and "enemies of democracy" in the years after 2016. If you even dared question Brexit, you were attempting to undo "the will of the people" (that noxious / Goebbels type phrase was all over their press for at least the first year or 18 months after the referendum).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138419#Comment_120138419

No it can't.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138419#Comment_120138419

I've no idea where you've gotten this rubbing noses line from. It's about holding power to account. Debate is a fundamental part to any democracy. Any time the Leavers have been called out on their nonsense, they've trotted out their victimhood narratives. I suspect this may be one of them.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138470#Comment_120138470

Indeed. What power has the opposition got in a parliament where the Govt has an 80 seat majority? It's Brexiteer propaganda that opposition parties are somehow and miraculously causing the project to fail. How exactly?

joeguevara

Has anyone heard that the Russia Report is about to rear its ugly head again for Rishi Sunaks government, specifically regarding meddling in the Referendum?

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230119-uk-govt-faces-questions-in-russia-meddling-probe

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/21/mi5-refused-to-investigate-russian-spys-links-to-tories-says-whistleblower

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144409#Comment_120144409

Not recently I hadn’t, so thanks for the heads-up.

Those of us with long memories, and a wish to see the Vote Leave crew (and others) face some retribution for their sponsored criminal damage, welcome a fresh dash of hope.

Still wouldn’t beat an encounter with a Russian hospital window, like…but well, little hope still.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120149398#Comment_120149398

Sadly, the people being investigated basically run the country with virtually no checks and balances bar their own staggering venality and incompetence.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144409#Comment_120144409

The current UK govt. are Brexit evangelists and true believers.

They will never probe into this stuff too deeply IMO because it muddies up one of the articles of the faith about the pure and holy "will of the people" (2016) firing the UK onward to the Brexit Glory and whatnot.

edit: It will need a new (non Conservative) UK govt. to do it I expect, and by the time that comes they may not want to dig all of this up again.

I thought UK may be on the way out of ECHR (I have not followed that too much though)?

ambro25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150345#Comment_120150345

The more extreme Brexiters keep floating the notion of the UK exiting the jurisdiction of the ECHR. Because <insert latest fascistic wet dream, currently Channel dinghies/Rwanda>

Until someone reminds them yet again, that it is a quintessentially British piece of Treaty and international jurisdiction, that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, and that the only European country not signed up to it is Belarus. Wasn’t a good look to be joining them and make a list of it pre-Feb’22, still less so nowadays.

Rinse-repeat on every slow news days.

It’s tedious, I’ll grant you that one instantly and with a flake in it 😉

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120150625#Comment_120150625

A lot of EU regulations were pushed by the UK. I don't see that argument holding much water with the current government.

Enzokk

Car production is down again in the UK. And yes I know semiconductor chip shortage and all that, but like with the economy its not that other countries are suffering as well, it is how much more the UK is falling behind.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64399748

The more interesting part would be the impending battle between the US and EU regarding investments/subsidies offered to companies.

"Firms are worried that the UK is falling behind the US and the EU when it comes to offering state aid to manufacturers.

A very significant bit of US legislation - the Inflation Reduction Act - will offer billions in subsidies to car makers who create electric vehicle supply chains in the US.

Mike Hawes, chief executive of the SMMT, said this will "hoover up" a lot of international investment.

An angry EU is considering retaliating by either explicitly relaxing state aid rules or doing so under the guise of extending Covid recovery or green technology-boosting programmes.

One of the benefits of Brexit was meant to be escaping from the straitjacket of EU state aid rules which limited the amount of support governments could give to favoured industries."

It is all good and well being able to offer subsidies outside of the EU, but if you don't have money to give those to companies it really is just a theoretical gain. This will be especially galling when the EU allows the same for their countries and you are left behind as you are lagging in most economical respects and you are not able to offer subsidies.

ancapailldorcha

The semiconductor thing is a self-inflicted tragedy. Intel were looking to build a huge facility in the north of England when the situation with Taiwan deteriorated. Brexit put paid to that. The UK could have become the European semiconductor superpower and the north would have gotten a serious boost. Alas.

State aid is now in vogue. Deep pocketed governments and the EU are going to be under serious pressure to follow Washington and Bejing. The UK not only doesn't invest but probably doesn't even have the infrastructure to do so at this point. Definitely not compared to Brussels having done this for decades and the federal infrastructure at the disposal of the White House.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120159290#Comment_120159290

It's double irony when TSMC actually got their manufacturing leap from buying semi conductor production equipment from a UK plant in Sunderland that Thatcher had championed in the 80s but was defunded after she left.

retalivity

Word of the week seems to be "Bregret".

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/britains-wave-of-bregret/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/31/three-years-on-brexit-uk-voters-rejoining-eu-labour-europe

Pity that for all the yearning to rejoin the EU, they will probably not get a chance for a generation. It's almost that the self-immolation and constant confrontation with your nearest neighbours for a decade wasn't the best idea.