Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

ArmaniJeanss

RobMc59 wrote: »

If a British take on brexit proceedings so far doesn't fit with your view of it thats hardly surprising given a high proportion of European media outlets tend not to report any negative news regarding eu actions. It pains me to say it but Ireland is by far the worst for this.

Out of interest, and just to see what you have based this rather startling opinion on....
How much TV/newspapers/political forums do you read from Slovenia, Portugal, Latvia, Austria etc?

dogbert27

RobMc59 wrote: »

If a British take on brexit proceedings so far doesn't fit with your view of it thats hardly surprising given a high proportion of European media outlets tend not to report any negative news regarding eu actions.It pains me to say it but Ireland is by far the worst for this.
The EU is clearly rattled by how brexit has panned out so far which has manifested itself in the extraordinary phantom article 16 fiasco.

I'm still laughing at this bit. Delusion of the highest order!

On the one hand he argues that it's too early to make a call on Brexit and on the other says the EU are clearly rattled by how it's panned out so far.

So based on your second comment Rob you are declaring Brexit a success?!

tubercolossus

I'm pretty sure the angry German (and others) reaction to the EC/VdL's blunder over Article 16 and the vaccine rollout in general was widely reported here. I certainly read about it in Irish papers - which were largely quoting well-known European media outlets - Le Monde, Der Spiegel, etc.

fash

RobMc59 wrote: »

If a British take on brexit proceedings so far doesn't fit with your view of it thats hardly surprising given a high proportion of European media outlets tend not to report any negative news regarding eu actions.It pains me to say it but Ireland is by far the worst for this.
The EU is clearly rattled by how brexit has panned out so far which has manifested itself in the extraordinary phantom article 16 fiasco.

No media outlets - outside the propaganda soaked UK- tend to report much negative news about the EU.
Have you ever wondered why it was only in the propaganda-soaked UK that so much criticism existed as compared to anywhere else? Do you think there may be a reason other than the rest of the world suppressing the terrible EU deeds in relation to prawn cocktail crisps and bendy bananas?

looksee

How is it UvdL still has a job? Anyone taking this question at face value is still mentally with the UK rather than the EU. The completely over stated Art. 16 event is of interest to the UK, who have left and are largely irrelevant, and of interest to Ireland who are indeed one of the 27 and thus it might have created more concern in the rest of the EU if it had been any more than a storm in a teacup. Europe has a pandemic to deal with and each country has their own affairs to worry about. Removing UvdL over a very temporary glitch is really not something that the EU is likely to be concerned about.

Akrasia

RobMc59 wrote: »

If a British take on brexit proceedings so far doesn't fit with your view of it thats hardly surprising given a high proportion of European media outlets tend not to report any negative news regarding eu actions.It pains me to say it but Ireland is by far the worst for this.
The EU is clearly rattled by how brexit has panned out so far which has manifested itself in the extraordinary phantom article 16 fiasco.

Eh, Van Der Leyen’s face was on the front page of almost every European newspaper following the A16 fiasco. The EU press, including the Irish media, are more than willing to criticize the EU where there is reason to

The big difference between UK and EU media, is that the EU had to make a special page in the EU parliament website just to list and debunk the hundreds of lies and falsehoods invented by UK media about the EU (many lies invented by none other than Boris Johnson himself)
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/media/euromyths.html

Professor Moriarty

I would encourage people to check out the headlines in today's Express here.

Hurrache

RobMc59 wrote: »

If a British take on brexit proceedings so far doesn't fit with your view of it

In fairness, it doesn't fit with reality, not individuals views.

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

a high proportion of European media outlets tend not to report any negative news regarding eu actions.

As a continental European resident, I'd say that that's because "the EU" is not seen as some faraway political enemy: it is nothing more or less than an extension of our local and national politics. In the same way that the local paper will report on a furious fight between neighbours over whether or not to allow a wind turbine in the townland, national media reports differences of opinion within the EU institutions as differences of opinion between interest groups.

To rework a phrase much abused recently: the EU is us and constant self-criticism is profoundly unhealthy. This, to my mind, is the huge difference between Britain (and a good many British) and the rest of us.

Hurrache

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I would encourage people to check out the headlines in today's Express here.

As much as I want to know what crap they're spouting today, I won't give them a click.

RobMc59

Hurrache wrote: »

In fairness, it doesn't fit with reality, not individuals views.

I'm aware the majority of the UK press is detached from reality and Johnson and co are basically a bunch of tossers.What is very disturbing is how many posters here never question anything brussels comes out with.

listermint

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm aware the majority of the UK press is detached from reality and Johnson and co are basically a bunch of tossers.What is very disturbing is how many posters here never question anything brussels comes out with.

But that is simply untrue. What's more is you know it's untrue but you say it anyway.

redcup342

RobMc59 wrote: »

If a British take on brexit proceedings so far doesn't fit with your view of it thats hardly surprising given a high proportion of European media outlets tend not to report any negative news regarding eu actions.It pains me to say it but Ireland is by far the worst for this.
The EU is clearly rattled by how brexit has panned out so far which has manifested itself in the extraordinary phantom article 16 fiasco.

I read German/Dutch and Spanish news.

The main focus is on Covid restrictions, Deaths and Vaccine rollouts.

In Germany its mainly about Public Transport and the Weather at the moment.

On that note I don't think the UK Government realises it's position yet, the days of the Empire are over.

Over the course of last year they proposed to break international law and threatened to send gunships to patrol its fishing waters.

Now they signed a deal after 4 years and 2 governments, 6 weeks in they don't like the deal and want to "reset" and sign another deal.

IMO Gove announcing they needed a reset from his office in London is a bit ridiculous, what kind of diplomat makes a statement to the media, idiot should have been on the phone to Ireland and in parallel setting up a meeting in Brussels to iron out the issues.

The best thing is that European Politians are not even rising to it, they just accepted their mistake with Article 16 and moved on.

Did the UK even apologise for or admit it was a mistake to try and implement the Internal Market Bill ? - No.

We'll see a breakup of the UK in the coming years, the UKs reputation is ruined especially with Boris (mini trump) at the helm.

CelticRambler wrote: »

To rework a phrase much abused recently: the EU is us and constant self-criticism is profoundly unhealthy. This, to my mind, is the huge difference between Britain (and a good many British) and the rest of us.

100% agree on that, I'm part of the EU and had a vote to elect my representative.

Basically you may as well start referring to Ireland in the 3rd Person otherwise.

RobMc59

dogbert27 wrote: »

I'm still laughing at this bit. Delusion of the highest order!

On the one hand he argues that it's too early to make a call on Brexit and on the other says the EU are clearly rattled by how it's panned out so far.

So based on your second comment Rob you are declaring Brexit a success?!

I've said I believe its too early to call brexit.
If the EU isn't rattled why did they threaten to trigger article 16?-Would you say that is the cool,calm actions of an organisation that is thinking rationally and believes itself to be in control?

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

I've said I believe its too early to call brexit.
If the EU isn't rattled why did they threaten to trigger article 16?-Would you say that is the cool,calm actions of an organisation that is thinking rationally and believes itself to be in control?

Why do you refuse to criticise Johnson and the DUP for exactly the same thing?

PeadarCo

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm aware the majority of the UK press is detached from reality and Johnson and co are basically a bunch of tossers.What is very disturbing is how many posters here never question anything brussels comes out with.

To be blunt that's rubbish. On this thread alone the EU decision over article 16 there was a huge debate about the announcement from pretty much it was announced. The EU came in for criticism from a huge amount of different posters. Now was it a complete lambasting of the EU, no but that's a healthy debate. Never mind what has been published in Irish media.

I think the thing you do point out is something that will probably be seen over the next few months is a denial of how bad Brexit actually is. Which is understandable because if Brexit keeps going the way its going it will turn into a national humiliation. The fact is that trade volumes are down 68% in January. Some of that is due to Covid the majority is down to Brexit. You can see this in the increased direct ferries between Ireland and France. You can see it in all the reports of empty trucks, logistics companies not delivering to the UK. And that's without the UK controlling its borders ie the tagine of Brexit. To make things even worse we are talking about goods and not services something the EU UK trade deal does even less for. It reminds me of the Irish government before just before the banking collapse. Pretending everything was OK as the ground was crumpling beneath its feet.

timetogo1

RobMc59 wrote: »

If the EU isn't rattled why did they threaten to trigger article 16?-Would you say that is the cool,calm actions of an organisation that is thinking rationally and believes itself to be in control?

Is this the same Article 16 that Johnson threatened to trigger the week before. And now the certain idiots in the UK want to renegotiate the deal about a month after it was signed.

The UK ratified the Brexit deal straight after it was signed. The EU is still considering it.

Yeah. The EU is quaking in its boots.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I've said I believe its too early to call brexit.
If the EU isn't rattled why did they threaten to trigger article 16?-Would you say that is the cool,calm actions of an organisation that is thinking rationally and believes itself to be in control?

While being critical of the mistake an organisation that can immediately accept that a mistake has been made, is one I would implacably trust.
It shows a capacity to be 'cool and calm and an acceptance that they are not infallible.

Compare and contrast to your leaders.

RobMc59

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Why do you refuse to criticise Johnson and the DUP for exactly the same thing?

I'm unhappy that the UK government is threatening to trigger article 16 egged on by the DUP who seem unable to comprehend the opportunities available to them .I've said what I think of Johnson and co in an earlier post today.

PeadarCo

RobMc59 wrote: »

I've said I believe its too early to call brexit.
If the EU isn't rattled why did they threaten to trigger article 16?-Would you say that is the cool,calm actions of an organisation that is thinking rationally and believes itself to be in control?

Because article has nothing to do with Brexit. It was a dispute with Astrazeneca. It was just away of potentially stopping the export of vaccines to a Non EU country. Which the UK now is. They messed it up completely. However it is a warning to the UK its outside the EU and it will be treated as such. Its an example of how the EU will treat the UK in future. Hopefully however the next time they have a dispute with a contract with a private company they won't involve other trade blocs.

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm unhappy that the UK government is threatening to trigger article 16 egged on by the DUP who seem unable to comprehend the opportunities available to them .I've said what I think of Johnson and co in an earlier post today.

Really? You've been banging on and on incessantly about the EU doing it and then instantly turning around whereas Johnson can make all the threats he wants and you've nothing to say unless you're specifically asked about it.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

While being critical of the mistake an organisation that can immediately accept that a mistake has been made, is one I would implacably trust.
It shows a capacity to be 'cool and calm and an acceptance that they are not infallible.

Compare and contrast to your leaders.

So are you saying Francie you see the EU about to trigger article 16 then talked down by Ireland and the UK is being cool, calm and collected?

Sam Russell

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm aware the majority of the UK press is detached from reality and Johnson and co are basically a bunch of tossers.What is very disturbing is how many posters here never question anything brussels comes out with.

And what was the Irish reaction to the Art 16 fiasco?

No criticism - no the phone line burned red with fury from Coveny blasting VdL such that the proposal was reversed in double quick time. Never has a Commission action been binned quicker.

We make representations to change what we do not like, and have been very successful in the most part - at EU political level.

RobMc59

PeadarCo wrote: »

Because article has nothing to do with Brexit. It was a dispute with Astrazeneca. It was just away of potentially stopping the export of vaccines to a Non EU country. Which the UK now is. They messed it up completely. However it is a warning to the UK its outside the EU and it will be treated as such. Its an example of how the EU will treat the UK in future. Hopefully however the next time they have a dispute with a contract with a private company they won't involve other trade blocs.

If it's a dispute with astra zeneca then even thinking about triggering it is a massive mistake.
Can you imagine the fallout for the EU?A potential squabble with a US already suspicious of the EU would be on the cards for a start.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

So are you saying Francie you see the EU about to trigger article 16 then talked down by Ireland and the UK is being cool, calm and collected?

Absolutely. The member state, Ireland, had the power to change minds. Art 16 wasn't invoked.

That is an organisation I can place my trust in as the smallest players have a critical say. Exactly as it should be.

RobMc59

Sam Russell wrote: »

And what was the Irish reaction to the Art 16 fiasco?

No criticism - no the phone line burned red with fury from Coveny blasting VdL such that the proposal was reversed in double quick time. Never has a Commission action been binned quicker.

We make representations to change what we do not like, and have been very successful in the most part - at EU political level.

Sam,I've found euronews to be a reliable source and have attached a link to their take on this which reports Ireland and the UK involved in talking brussels down,which is something else Irish posters seem unwilling to accept.

"'Wholly unnecessary': Criticism mounts on Brussels over vaccine furore | Euronews" https://www.euronews.com/amp/2021/02/01/wholly-unnecessary-criticism-mounts-on-brussels-over-vaccine-furore

PeadarCo

RobMc59 wrote: »

If it's a dispute with astra zeneca then even thinking about triggering it is a massive mistake.
Can you imagine the fallout for the EU?A potential squabble with a US already suspicious of the EU would be on the cards for a start.

Of course it was a massive mistake. It was reversed within hours. If it reflects badly on the EU, how badly does it reflect on the UK that they already talking about renegotiating a deal that's only weeks old. This is the second time within a year that's happened. It does not reflect well on the UK that you can't rely on them to stick to a major deal for even a few months without talk about tearing things up.

To be honest I think the reason you are talking the EU Astrazeneca fiasco is to deflect from the absolute disaster Brexit is becoming. Something that was widely predicted. You are going to have to get used to hearing about the chaos Brexit has caused. We are only a few weeks in and the impact still hasn't had time to show up in a major reports. This is only the start.

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

Sam,I've found euronews to be a reliable source and have attached a link to their take on this which reports Ireland and the UK involved in talking brussels down,which is something else Irish posters seem unwilling to accept.

"'Wholly unnecessary': Criticism mounts on Brussels over vaccine furore | Euronews" https://www.euronews.com/amp/2021/02/01/wholly-unnecessary-criticism-mounts-on-brussels-over-vaccine-furore

That's nearly a fortnight ago. What are you hoping to achieve by dredging this up time and time again?

RobMc59

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's nearly a fortnight ago. What are you hoping to achieve by dredging this up time and time again?

I mentioned earlier that the EU was rattled imo.I believe this proves that is true.
Edit:and the UK was also responsible for Brussels thinking again.

Igotadose

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's nearly a fortnight ago. What are you hoping to achieve by dredging this up time and time again?

Trying to pose the fractious, yet flexible EU as the big bad dictatorship while ignoring what's been going on in the UK since the referendum and especially since the election.

Remember the Internal Markets Bill that SNIP. No nicknames please. Jenrick said violated International Law? Without an outcry from the EU and elsewhere, it'd have been rubber stamped.

Pretty hilarious the Brexiteers are on about unelected bureaucrats. In the UK, they just go through the motions. Get a safe seat, be a Tory (or Labour) drone for as long as you want unless you really foul up via scandal. While kowtowing to the red tops.

Getting lectured on functioning governments from a UK citizen that backs Brexit is laughable at this point. Heck, Brexiteers now want to resort to violence on behalf of the shellfish industry, per the daily fail. Where's the Government saying, "Cut that crap out?"