Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Leroy42

RobMc59 wrote: »

After scrutinising available data the EU has approved a number of vaccines without any recommendations regarding negative effectiveness. The WHO has done the same which suggests that the UK strategy is correct

Yes, but the Uk did not know this at the time, the data wasn't conclusive enough at the time.

I can't understand why you cannot appreciate that this was a gamble, a gamble that appears to be paying off and that is good for everyone.

I'm glad they did it, it gave the test cases to complete the data set so that we can all feel more confident in the vaccine, but I fully understand why the EU wanted to take the required time.

Seth Brundle

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but the Uk did not know this at the time, the data wasn't conclusive enough at the time.

I can't understand why you cannot appreciate that this was a gamble, a gamble that appears to be paying off and that is good for everyone.

I'm glad they did it, it gave the test cases to complete the data set so that we can all feel more confident in the vaccine, but I fully understand why the EU wanted to take the required time.

It was two gambles if I'm not mistaken - the first when they approved it without all the information about it and the second when the increased the recommended interval to between nine and twelve weeks.
As you say, it now looks to be paying off but it could have proven very costly in terms of lives lost.

Junkyard Tom

A little bit of sanity emerging from Brexitland? It would really take the heat out of things in the north.

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1360170529320296450?s=20

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

After scrutinising available data the EU has approved a number of vaccines without any recommendations regarding negative effectiveness. The WHO has done the same which suggests that the UK strategy is correct

Seth Brundle wrote: »

As you say, it now looks to be paying off but it could have proven very costly in terms of lives lost.

There is, as yet no data to suggest that any vaccination strategy has been either correct or life saving in the long term - because we haven't even entered the medium term yet.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has watched way too much Hollywood science. The real test will come later this year, and probably throughout next year, as delayed side-effects become apparent, the most potentially serious of which will be exaggerated immune reactions to newer mutations - Covid ++ if you like.

And (yet again) it has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit ... except that if the need arises, the EU can shut out travellers from GB in the name of public safety (or reject "vaccination certificates" issued by the British government).

RobMc59

After workers at the Airbus facility at Broughton voted to accept a shorter working week to safeguard jobs it was great to see the very impressive Beluga passing overhead today towards Chester,probably to pick up another set of wings.

View

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A little bit of sanity emerging from Brexitland? It would really take the heat out of things in the north.

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1360170529320296450?s=20

Brexit means Brexit.

It isn’t the responsibility of the EU countries to aid Brexiters in pursuing their fantasy.

Enzokk

RobMc59 wrote: »

After workers at the Airbus facility at Broughton voted to accept a shorter working week to safeguard jobs it was great to see the very impressive Beluga passing overhead today towards Chester,probably to pick up another set of wings.

Can you expand what you are trying to point out here?

tubercolossus

Deleted User wrote: »

Brexit and the British government haven't caused more vaccines to be produced. Their contract with AZ just means they get priority. It's not some good, it's just a transfer of life-saving vaccines.

My impression is that this is not the case. The EU's contract stated that AZ had to take 'all reasonable efforts' to ensure delivery, including delivery from all four factories (2 in EU, 2 in UK). They also had a similar contract with the UK, and when things went tits up instead of letting both down but on a pro rata basis they favoured the UK instead, on a first come first served basis. Which prompted the comment from some Eurocrat about it not being like going to the butchers'.

It remains to be seen what steps the EU will take with regard to AZ, but I suspect it won't be pleasant for them.

breezy1985

Hurrache wrote: »

I think at this point Rob is only trying to convince himself about Brexit.

People of his mindset were sure a few years ago that Brexit would be the catalyst for us to all wake up and vote Irexit and are now left clinging in desperate hope to their shattered beliefs

RobMc59

Enzokk wrote: »

Can you expand what you are trying to point out here?

Not much to cheer a person up at the moment Enzokk,probably the same for everyone. Although its nice to see despite differences over brexit there are still examples of cooperation for the good of all in Europe whether in the EU or not.

breezy1985

RobMc59 wrote: »

After workers at the Airbus facility at Broughton voted to accept a shorter working week to safeguard jobs it was great to see the very impressive Beluga passing overhead today towards Chester,probably to pick up another set of wings.

Are you cheering on the fact that workers were so desperate that they had give up full time jobs just to scrape by ?

RobMc59

breezy1985 wrote: »

People of his mindset were sure a few years ago that Brexit would be the catalyst for us to all wake up and vote Irexit and are now left clinging in desperate hope to their shattered beliefs

I recently had to look up the meaning of Irexit when I first read it on boards within the last six months..

schmoo2k

breezy1985 wrote: »

People of his mindset were sure a few years ago that Brexit would be the catalyst for us to all wake up and vote Irexit and are now left clinging in desperate hope to their shattered beliefs

Yea its quite interesting to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E889PD0nGQE&lc=UgwpQU-JRI2f5r8WhDF4AaABAg.9Jd-THK63ig9JeOgMP1Swk

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

I recently had to look up the meaning of Irexit when I first read it on boards within the last six months..

Whether Irexit gains traction or disappears without trace depends on where the UK is in a decade's time, most definitely not the immediate future.

RobMc59

breezy1985 wrote: »

Are you cheering on the fact that workers were so desperate that they had give up full time jobs just to scrape by ?

As this appears to be right across airbus I don't see why you would ridicule their decision

Strazdas

Deleted User wrote: »

Whether Irexit gains traction or disappears without trace depends on where the UK is in a decade's time, most definitely not the immediate future.

I cannot see it ever gaining traction. A country of only 5m deciding to leave the EU, SMCU and the Eurozone to 'go it alone' would be absolutely bonkers, even more nutty than the Brexit decision. A country and economy of Ireland's size would be decimated by the negative impacts.

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

As this appears to be right across airbus I don't see why you would ridicule their decision

He isn't. He's questioning why you see the fact they have to lose a portion of their income to save their jobs as a positive.

View

Strazdas wrote: »

I cannot see it ever gaining traction. A country of only 5m deciding to leave the EU, SMCU and the Eurozone to 'go it alone' would be absolutely bonkers, even more nutty than the Brexit decision. A country and economy of Ireland's size would be decimated by the negative impacts.

That is basically what Ireland decided to do approx a hundred+ years ago when we were gung-ho to leave the U.K. & the Empire and become an isolated agrarian society.

Unsurprisingly the parts of Ireland - ie the NE - that were more industrial/less agrarian were hostile to that idea.

Never underestimate the possibility of a bonkers idea gaining traction.

tubercolossus

View wrote: »

That is basically what Ireland decided to do approx a hundred+ years ago when we were gung-ho to leave the U.K. & the Empire and become an isolated agrarian society.

Unsurprisingly the parts of Ireland - ie the NE - that were more industrial/less agrarian were hostile to that idea.

Never underestimate the possibility of a bonkers idea gaining traction.

Equating a country gaining its independence from a colonial ruler with leaving the EU is the sort of nonsense Anne Widdicombe and her ilk peddled in the European Parliament.

Professor Moriarty

tubercolossus wrote: »

Equating a country gaining its independence from a colonial ruler with leaving the EU is the sort of nonsense Anne Widdicombe and her ilk peddled in the European Parliament.

It's worse than that. She equated it with slavery. Which was ironic considering Britain's history.

BonnieSituation

Padre_Pio wrote: »

That is the main point.

I presume the UK govt is on the hook for any compensation payouts since they pushed the vaccines through early, unlike in EU where manufacturers are on the hook.

There's no limit to the amount of money the givt could be forced to pay in compensation if things go tits up.

I thought there was no magic money tree?

What are the bets it will have to be paid out under a Labour Govt, thus rehabilitating the Tories again...

breezy1985

schmoo2k wrote: »

Yea its quite interesting to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E889PD0nGQE&lc=UgwpQU-JRI2f5r8WhDF4AaABAg.9Jd-THK63ig9JeOgMP1Swk

The paraphernalia behind him would suggest he is very neutral on the subject of Brexit

breezy1985

RobMc59 wrote: »

As this appears to be right across airbus I don't see why you would ridicule their decision

The right decision for the bosses not the worker. You really are a proper Tory aren't you.

And I can't believe someone as opinionated and vocal as you on this thread has never heard of Irexit. I would be ashamed to come on here and comment if I knew that little about Brexit and the surrounding politics

BonnieSituation

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A little bit of sanity emerging from Brexitland? It would really take the heat out of things in the north.

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1360170529320296450?s=20

And once these talks complete I wager that we will be told how mighty Britannia extracted concessions and as such the merry-go-round continues.

It's exhausting.

breezy1985

View wrote: »

That is basically what Ireland decided to do approx a hundred+ years ago when we were gung-ho to leave the U.K. & the Empire and become an isolated agrarian society.

Unsurprisingly the parts of Ireland - ie the NE - that were more industrial/less agrarian were hostile to that idea.

Never underestimate the possibility of a bonkers idea gaining traction.

The EU is a group we can join or leave at will and have been mostly beneficial. The UK forced itself on us and turned the country into a giant agricultural sweatshop.

The more developed areas were more developed because they were Protestant/unionist not the other way round

10000maniacs

yagan wrote: »

A united Ireland could happen not because of our consent or public will, but because the UK could simply fall apart and orphan NI. What banner can unionists gather under when their union demerges? No one ever asks what happened the soviets outside Russia.

Putin just annexes the territories at will if he is inclined to do so. And shoots down passenger planes in the process.

View

tubercolossus wrote: »

Equating a country gaining its independence from a colonial ruler with leaving the EU is the sort of nonsense Anne Widdicombe and her ilk peddled in the European Parliament.

No it is not.

My point was that a bonkers idea can find traction and a population can get swept up in it. History is frequently determined by bonkers ideas sweeping a population.

Like it or not, if any of our political parties today stood on the electoral platform of the parties of a hundred years ago, they would face electoral annihilation in today’s Republic and their platform would be openly ridiculed as being crazy. The population of today’s Republic would be no more likely to vote for such an isolationist agrarian platform than unionists were back then.

10000maniacs

tubercolossus wrote: »

Equating a country gaining its independence from a colonial ruler with leaving the EU is the sort of nonsense Anne Widdicombe and her ilk peddled in the European Parliament.

In her final speech, she mentioned how fishing catches for UK fishermen have been cut by 40% by the EU.
Well, hate to point this out, but I think UK fishermen would be happy for their stocks to be cut by 40% now.
Before they joined the EU in 1973, UK fishermen shipped 60% of their catch to Europe. It will be a tiny fraction of that 60% post Brexit.

View

breezy1985 wrote: »

The EU is a group we can join or leave at will and have been mostly beneficial. The UK forced itself on us and turned the country into a giant agricultural sweatshop.

The more developed areas were more developed because they were Protestant/unionist not the other way round

Your latter point is sectarian. The NE of Ireland was more industrialised because of its proximity the industrialised areas of Scotland, not because of any particular “genius” associated with any given religious affiliation.

tubercolossus

View wrote: »

Your latter point is sectarian. The NE of Ireland was more industrialised because of its proximity the industrialised areas of Scotland, not because of any particular “genius” associated with any given religious affiliation.

I think the point was not that there was 'genius' in a religious affiliation, but rather discrimination in its favour, and against the other denomination.