Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Akrasia

SNIP. Use the proper names of publications please.

breezy1985

Akrasia wrote: »

SNIP

Brexit was always about symbolism though and not facts

Enzokk

Akrasia wrote: »

SNIP

The UK and France is connected and it has not stopped trade friction between the two. I fail to see how a connection stops checks from happening when it is the WA and NI Protocol that has meant this has happened. They are really trying to sell ice to the Eskimo's.

Capt'n Midnight

CelticRambler wrote: »

Seriously??? Are we back to this nonsense again? The Tories must be starting to panic. :pac:

So much deliberate obfuscation in that article, not least the "same length as the tunnel under the Channel" and saying it'd come out in Sammy Wilson's constituency. When this idea was first ... floated? :rolleyes: ... I read a discussion by a bunch of engineers who concluded that, as the tunnel would have to be at three times the depth of that in the Channel, the entrance would need to be somewhere around Clontarf!

But hey, who's going to notice another few billion chucked at Tory donors for the purposes of carrying out a feasibility study, and Johnson can add a tunnel to the bridge and runway of projects he's failed to deliver.

The channel tunnel went through chalk.




Fig. 2. Position of explosions recorded in Beauforts Dyke.


A northern tunnel would have to under Beaufort's Dyke through a million tons of munitions, chemical weapons and some glow in the dark

Rain Ascending

breezy1985 wrote: »

Brexit was always about symbolism though and not facts

In this case, it's more about managing the narrative arising in the Sunday newspapers. Remember a couple of week's ago the furious government reaction to an Observer piece on the reduction in cross-channel trade? Here we're seeing the same thing on the Northern Ireland Protocol. The UK government don't have a quick, satisfying fix that will silence either the DUP or the more extreme wing of their own party.

So what do you do? You brief that you are considering again at some ideas that you know the EU will reject. Highly technical mumbo-jumbo, but looks good and nobody will ask questions when you quietly fail to develop the said mumbo-jumbo any further. You also brief that you are looking again at a grandiose infrastructure project that you know your boss likes and might throw a few million away on for a feasibility study, and can be (ludiciously) spun as addressing the Protocol.

It all sucks oxygen from more critical narratives about how the Northern Ireland Protocol isn't going to change much and how Irene can't order her favourite petunia seeds from Staffordshire.

And from an Irish perspective, I'm, for once, okay with that. The evidence is that the Protocol is slowly bedding down in the North with businesses re-engineering their supply chains towards the EU and/or getting to grips with the new paperwork. Currently, the bigger problems are more at the individual consumer level and this is creating heat that this more political than commercial. A week or two of distraction in the media gradually takes out that heat...

yagan

Johnson is trolling the unionists with a tunnel. I'm surprised no one brought the previous bridge proposal yet.

Capt'n Midnight

Map of how far places were by time. The tunnel to Northern Ireland would be in the remotest place on the mainland from London. There's a reason why most of the shipments to NI go through Dublin.

From an infrastructure point of view it's like that bridge in Japan that was built to replace the ferries, but everyone uses the ferries because bridge toll was too expensive.


What news are they trying to hide ?
Is it a physical tunnel or are they trying to tunnel their way out of something ?

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please ask questions about moderation via PM, not on thread. Thanks.

20silkcut

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The channel tunnel went through chalk.




Fig. 2. Position of explosions recorded in Beauforts Dyke.


A northern tunnel would have to under Beaufort's Dyke through a million tons of munitions, chemical weapons and some glow in the dark

I can’t fathom ( pardon the pun) the utter stupidity of dumping tons of ammunition in the sea in a narrow busy channel between two countries.

Silent Running

20silkcut wrote: »

I can’t fathom ( pardon the pun) the utter stupidity of dumping tons of ammunition in the sea in a narrow busy channel between two countries.

I would say that the first thought was probably how far away from London they could dump the stuff.

20silkcut

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Map of how far places were by time. The tunnel to Northern Ireland would be in the remotest place on the mainland from London. There's a reason why most of the shipments to NI go through Dublin.

From an infrastructure point of view it's like that bridge in Japan that was built to replace the ferries, but everyone uses the ferries because bridge toll was too expensive.


What news are they trying to hide ?
Is it a physical tunnel or are they trying to tunnel their way out of something ?

Interesting map if you were to do the same for Ireland then North east Antrim would be very peripheral to the vast majority of the 5 million people on the island. So you’d have to travel 4 hours up to there cross the tunnel and your still 8 hours from London. Pretty useless unless your heading to Scotland even at that it’s not a great option for Scotland either.

pixelburp

20silkcut wrote: »

I can’t fathom ( pardon the pun) the utter stupidity of dumping tons of ammunition in the sea in a narrow busy channel between two countries.

It's not even a case of there only being deliberate ammo dumps; just outside Sheerness lies a barely sunk ammo ship from ww2. Thousands of tonnes of ammo remains there, and it's unclear how "live" the ammunition is, and everyone's just happy to not touch it, hope for the best. (Apologies to the mods for the off topic segue). If all blew, Sheerness would be wiped off the map

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery

breezy1985

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I don't understand this map. How is Dublin a shorter travel time than the ferry ports that you use to sail to Dublin ?

Sam Russell

Silent Running wrote: »

I would say that the first thought was probably how far away from London they could dump the stuff.

They used to say that if nuclear power plants were as safe as they said, they could put one in Hyde Park, like the Battersea and Fulham Power Stations were built in central London. They never did put any nuclear power plants anywhere near London - they built them all as remotely as they could - quite obvious why.

I think the Beaufort Dyke is probably the deepest water within the UK marine 3 or 12 mile limit, whichever applied at the time. They probably made sure the whole project was covered by the strongest secrecy laws they had. It was only when the unexploded bombs started surfacing on beeches in Scotland and the Isle of Mann, and the explosions started, that the secret was out.

Alun

breezy1985 wrote: »

I don't understand this map. How is Dublin a shorter travel time than the ferry ports that you use to sail to Dublin ?

You can fly to Dublin but not Holyhead or Fishguard?

Seth Brundle

The Guardian & Observer are reporting that a new book (Guillaume Coudray's Who Poisoned Your Bacon Sandwich?) describes how the UK is under pressure to sign a deal with the US which would also include bacon cured with nitrite which cause bowel cancer. This is in addition to chlorinated chicken and hormone reared beef which the UK government says they won't allow but hasn't legislated against.
UK-US Brexit trade deal ‘could fill supermarkets with cancer-risk bacon’
Fears of illness over nitrites used in US but currently banned in Britain and EU

BonnieSituation

20silkcut wrote: »

Interesting map if you were to do the same for Ireland then North east Antrim would be very peripheral to the vast majority of the 5 million people on the island. So you’d have to travel 4 hours up to there cross the tunnel and your still 8 hours from London. Pretty useless unless your heading to Scotland even at that it’s not a great option for Scotland either.

You're gonna have a serious shock when you find out there's 6.8m people in Ireland!

The tunnel is clearly some sort of obfuscation for something.

So is it vaccine Rollout? The latest proof of the insanity of brexit? The DNACPRs of people with learning difficulties or something else?

Hmmmm...

CelticRambler

Rain Ascending wrote: »

In this case, it's more about managing the narrative arising in the Sunday newspapers.
<snip>
It all sucks oxygen from more critical narratives about how the Northern Ireland Protocol isn't going to change much and how Irene can't order her favourite petunia seeds from Staffordshire.

This seems perfectly plausible. Given that there is no significant economic case to be made for the Channel Tunnel, which connects an island of 60-million with a continent of 450million, what possible justification could there be for embarking on a considerably more challenging project to link the 60m island with a remote corner of a neighbouring island, to serve a population of about 1m at most (given that a good number of the citizens and businesses of the corner concerned are perfectly happy to use the existing modes of inter-island transport)?

The cost benefit appraisal of the Channel Tunnel reveals that overall the British economy would have been better off had the Tunnel never been constructed, as the total resource cost outweighs the benefits generated.

Source

That's my feasibility study done - do I send my five-figure invoice to Gove or to Johnson? :pac:

Larbre34

Such a tunnel will never, ever, ever be built.

Professor Moriarty

Larbre34 wrote: »

Such a tunnel will never, ever, ever be built.

It's symbolic of the populism that is now endemic in British politics. Trumpet a bullsh1t project and the useful idiots lap it up.

Capt'n Midnight

Larbre34 wrote: »

Such a tunnel will never, ever, ever be built.

Much like a motorway to Derry, it won't get built with UK money.

The only way it would get build is with serious EU internal funding.

eire4

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Hopefully not. I mean, the dismissal of Gove's letter gives me hope.

I haven't heard much about vaccines the last few days either.

Are they bored of that now? Or are the risible second vaccine numbers not worthy of discussion?

The whole vaccine situation really is disappointing. Point scoring over a situation that is all about our lives and health. Not a good look at all to put it mildly. The virus threatens all of us and we need everyone in the UK the EU and around the world to be taken care of vaccine wise to eradicate this menace. Not spent time point scoring over it.

BonnieSituation

eire4 wrote: »

The whole vaccine situation really is disappointing. Point scoring over a situation that is all about our lives and health. Not a good look at all to put it mildly. The virus threatens all of us and we need everyone in the UK the EU and around the world to be taken care of vaccine wise to eradicate this menace. Not spent time point scoring over it.

Well they're crowing about their 15m milestone. I still can't get over how few second doses have been administered.

tubercolossus

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well they're crowing about their 15m milestone. I still can't get over how few second doses have been administered.

It's all smoke and mirrors for the headlines.

VinLieger

Larbre34 wrote: »

Such a tunnel will never, ever, ever be built.

Its absurd and anyone claiming it is possible hasnt a clue of the details.


The max depth of the straight of Dover where the Euro Tunnel crosses is about 55 metres.


A straight shot from between Larne and Stranraer as is being proposed crosses through areas that are 240 metres deep.


The idea that such a tunnel is possible is as equally absurd as the idiotic bridge. There is not a hope in hell either will ever be built.

Silent Running

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well they're crowing about their 15m milestone. I still can't get over how few second doses have been administered.

My daughter got her first injection at the end of January. She's been given a mid April date for the second dose. I really hope the gamble works out for the British government on the timing of this. All for a point scoring exercise. :mad:

BonnieSituation

Silent Running wrote: »

My daughter got her first injection at the end of January. She's been given a mid April date for the second dose. I really hope the gamble works out for the British government on the timing of this. All for a point scoring exercise. :mad:

I really hope the gamble works out for the planet on the timing of this.

eire4

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well they're crowing about their 15m milestone. I still can't get over how few second doses have been administered.

All I can say is I really hope those people who don't get their second shot when they do survive ok because the last thing we need is the pandemic continuing to be a major issue in another country right on our door step.

20silkcut

VinLieger wrote: »

Its absurd and anyone claiming it is possible hasnt a clue of the details.


The max depth of the straight of Dover where the Euro Tunnel crosses is about 55 metres.


A straight shot from between Larne and Stranraer as is being proposed crosses through areas that are 240 metres deep.


The idea that such a tunnel is possible is as equally absurd as the idiotic bridge. There is not a hope in hell either will ever be built.

And many truckers and regular users much rather the ferry than the tunnel. With all the queuing it is not much different in terms of time saved to the ferry and that was before brexit.
And the train is supposed to be pretty grimy as well not a pleasant experience.

PopePalpatine

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The Guardian & Observer are reporting that a new book (Guillaume Coudray's Who Poisoned Your Bacon Sandwich?) describes how the UK is under pressure to sign a deal with the US which would also include bacon cured with nitrite which cause bowel cancer. This is in addition to chlorinated chicken and hormone reared beef which the UK government says they won't allow but hasn't legislated against.
UK-US Brexit trade deal ‘could fill supermarkets with cancer-risk bacon’
Fears of illness over nitrites used in US but currently banned in Britain and EU

Is there anything more emblematic of Brexit than cancerous gammon?