Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Kermit.de.frog

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

Quite an interesting exchange between Boris Johnson and Margaret Brennan who hosts CBS News - Face of the Nation, really slamming home the Biden administration's position on Northern Ireland:

https://twitter.com/facethenation/status/1360982308740825092?s=21

Full interview:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/full-interview-uk-prime-minister-boris-johnson-on-face-the-nation/

I note he actually did not commit to the protocol in that interview despite being asked twice.

Instead just waffle about north south and east west unfettered trade.

This is not possible without a customs union or single market. A border has to go somewhere.

schmoo2k

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I note he actually did not commit to the protocol in that interview despite being asked twice.

Instead just waffle about north south and east west unfettered trade.

This is not possible without a customs union or single market. A border has to go somewhere.

There will be technological advances that will streamline the whole process (not just GB -> NI, but also GB -> RoI) - but I assume there will still be some exceptions (like shell fish)?

Just taking amazon.co.uk as an example, they had a slow start this year, but now seem to be on top of getting their paperwork done in advance and expediently?

Kermit.de.frog

True but I think the issue here has become more political than trade. Some unionists don't want it to work no matter how streamlined.

upupup

Leroy42 wrote: »

I wonder how much something like the NI Scotland tunnel and all the associated infrastructure including rail links etc would cost?

Are we talking bns, or 100's of billions?

Irish engineer Eoin Neylon thinks about 20 billion to build it.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/brexit/boris-burrow-post-brexit-tunnel-between-northern-ireland-and-scotland-proposed-1081170.html

VinLieger

upupup wrote: »

Irish engineer Eoin Neylon thinks about 20 billion to build it.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/brexit/boris-burrow-post-brexit-tunnel-between-northern-ireland-and-scotland-proposed-1081170.html

And that's before they even have had a look at what the hell is down there that they would be digging through. Also God knows how they would find that out as they cant send anything down there to test and check the rock cus of the feckload of munitions they dumped there that make it impossible to build the bridge.

As of right now all that anyone has done is drawn a line on a map from Larne to Stranraer and said "we want this....."

Sam Russell

upupup wrote: »

Irish engineer Eoin Neylon thinks about 20 billion to build it.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/brexit/boris-burrow-post-brexit-tunnel-between-northern-ireland-and-scotland-proposed-1081170.html

The bridge or tunnel is a small element of the problem of connecting Scotland and NI. A tunnel has to be rail because of ventilation issues. It is also a fire hazard for anyone caught in it if there was any fire at all.

So rail has to be standard gauge - so how far into Ireland do you go with standard gauge? As far as Larne, or Belfast, or the whole island? Who pays for that? Will that include the Western Rail Corridor?

On the Scottish side, there are currently no rails in Stranraer, and so where do you go with that route? Glasgow or Carlisle, or both? Who pays for that? Is it to be HS or rural rickety tickety stuff?

I cannot see it being cheaper than the HS2 to achieve anything worthwhile, and this for a connection from a remote part of western Scotland to a remote part of the UK that is basically a failed entity.

Throwing hundreds of billions of GB£ at it will achieve nothing of any value for anyone. A feasibility study funding a few chums for a few hundred K might get some political distraction but that is about it.

J Mysterio

rock22 wrote: »

Rob, i see you are resorting to typical imperialist views of Irish people. Coming , with cap in hand ,to their English master's for a job.

Michael D Higgins, has a good article in the Guardian pointing out how these Imperialist attitudes have never been challenged or reflected on by English , ( and although he doesn't say, I think those views helped bring about Brexit).

Rob, Perhaps you would read and reflect on it

Very interesting and had missed the article - thanks

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

The bridge or tunnel is a small element of the problem of connecting Scotland and NI. A tunnel has to be rail because of ventilation issues. It is also a fire hazard for anyone caught in it if there was any fire at all.

So rail has to be standard gauge - so how far into Ireland do you go with standard gauge? As far as Larne, or Belfast, or the whole island? Who pays for that? Will that include the Western Rail Corridor?

On the Scottish side, there are currently no rails in Stranraer, and so where do you go with that route? Glasgow or Carlisle, or both? Who pays for that? Is it to be HS or rural rickety tickety stuff?

I cannot see it being cheaper than the HS2 to achieve anything worthwhile, and this for a connection from a remote part of western Scotland to a remote part of the UK that is basically a failed entity.

Throwing hundreds of billions of GB£ at it will achieve nothing of any value for anyone. A feasibility study funding a few chums for a few hundred K might get some political distraction but that is about it.

There is actually a railway (and an open one at that) to Stranraer from Glasgow via Ayr.

But this pie in the sky notion involves a high speed rail connection to Carlisle.

It's just all a sop to the unionists to give them some flag waving propaganda.

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

There is actually a railway (and an open one at that) to Stranraer from Glasgow via Ayr.

But this pie in the sky notion involves a high speed rail connection to Carlisle.

It's just all a sop to the unionists to give them some flag waving propaganda.

My error. I tried to book travel from Stranraer to take the ferry from Larne, but there was no service at the time. There is a service to Ayr which takes over an hour, and change for Glasgow. Stranraer to Euston takes 7 hours, according to National Rail and costs £137. Cheaper and quicker for passengers to go by Ryanair from Belfast*.

A high speed connection aids Scotland - oh, wait, it doesn't - it aids England.

Oh, well, that makes sense - oh, wait, it doesn't. This is still daft.

*Post Covid.

RobMc59

rock22 wrote: »

Rob, i see you are resorting to typical imperialist views of Irish people. Coming , with cap in hand ,to their English master's for a job.

Michael D Higgins, has a good article in the Guardian pointing out how these Imperialist attitudes have never been challenged or reflected on by English , ( and although he doesn't say, I think those views helped bring about Brexit).

Rob, Perhaps you would read and reflect on it

I didn't suggest anything like that.
If employment opportunities are reduced in English speaking countries that impacts on all those who speak English as their first(or only) language.If you only speak English you'd probably have very little(or vastly reduced)chance of employment in France for example.

cameramonkey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

True but I think the issue here has become more political than trade. Some unionists don't want it to work no matter how streamlined.

In the world of geopolitics a small population of Unionists reactionaries have no clout, no one is going to set aside a deal that suits all of Europe and the US to placate a bunch of sectarians who refuse get on with their neighbours.. They alienated the Irish govt, the nationalist, the Tories and all the political parties in the UK as well as the EU. They are about to learn how important they are in the grand scheme and it will be a cruel lesson.

BonnieSituation

I have never been more over a story as I am this one. It's now Monday lunchtime. Why is it still going on?

What happened to any talk of Gove's "mutual agreement" guff? Tautology notwithstanding.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

My error. I tried to book travel from Stranraer to take the ferry from Larne, but there was no service at the time. There is a service to Ayr which takes over an hour, and change for Glasgow. Stranraer to Euston takes 7 hours, according to National Rail and costs £137. Cheaper and quicker for passengers to go by Ryanair from Belfast*.

A high speed connection aids Scotland - oh, wait, it doesn't - it aids England.

Oh, well, that makes sense - oh, wait, it doesn't. This is still daft.

*Post Covid.

The ferry sails from Cairnryan - Stranraer port was abandoned some time ago.

In normal times there is a train every two hours from Stranraer and Kilmarnock with connections to Glasgow at Ayr.

Low price sail/rail tickets are via a bus connection between Cairnryan port and Ayr, but were reduced to a connection with one sailing per day per-Covid due to ever decreasing demand. They’re currently suspended. The fare was GBP 56 one way between Belfast and London and journey time overall was 11-12 hours.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I have never been more over a story as I am this one. It's now Monday lunchtime. Why is it still going on?

What happened to any talk of Gove's "mutual agreement" guff? Tautology notwithstanding.

Bonnie,you should know by now the EU do everything at the speed of the slowest tortoise.

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

I didn't suggest anything like that.
If employment opportunities are reduced in English speaking countries that impacts on all those who speak English as their first(or only) language.If you only speak English you'd probably have very little(or vastly reduced)chance of employment in France for example.

Funny you should choose France as an example. I'm pitching for a niche Project Manager position that's just been advertised. The one and only absolute "must have" isn't the degree that gives me access to this world, but fluency in English. Fortunately for me, all the potential British candidates are now out of the picture, leaving me as the only fluent English speaker with (pure irony) the kind of British experience that this project needs to lift it above the current French standard.

This is just one tiny, isolated example of how Brexit is great for the rest of us: all those highly qualified candidates suddenly taken out of the market, or at least given extra hoops to jump through that puts us EUropeans well ahead of them (start date for this job is April - would be tough for any British applicant to get a work visa by then).

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

Bonnie,you should know by now the EU do everything at the speed of the slowest tortoise.

You mean like (not) triggering Art. 16? :pac:

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

Funny you should choose France as an example. I'm pitching for a niche Project Manager position that's just been advertised. The one and only absolute "must have" isn't the degree that gives me access to this world, but fluency in English. Fortunately for me, all the potential British candidates are now out of the picture, leaving me as the only fluent English speaker with (pure irony) the kind of British experience that this project needs to lift it above the current French standard.

This is just one tiny, isolated example of how Brexit is great for the rest of us: all those highly qualified candidates suddenly taken out of the market, or at least given extra hoops to jump through that puts us EUropeans well ahead of them (start date for this job is April - would be tough for any British applicant to get a work visa by then).

The point I was making is unless you are multilingual,only speaking English has just become a disadvantage.
I assume you are bilingual?How likely you'd be a serious contender for the position if you couldn't speak acceptable French.?

CelticRambler

RobMc59 wrote: »

The point I was making is unless you are multilingual,only speaking English has just become a disadvantage.
I assume you are bilingual?How likely you'd be a serious contender for the position if you couldn't speak acceptable French.?

Only bilingual in the sense that I learnt French in school. While my level now might be better than it was when I did my Leaving Cert, I was only the same as any other Irish person before I came to France. There are dozens (probably hundreds, maybe even thousands) of jobs advertised in France that require fluent English because they have an important international component to them. Depending on the sector, even in France some employers consider that to be the most criterion - you're not being employed to discuss the finer points of Sartre's philosophy or expound on the cinematic works of Tati.

In the context of the job I'm looking at, I would be competing with Germans, Dutch, Swiss, maybe the odd Belgian ... but no British, unless they're already here and fully integrated. And that suits me just fine. :cool:

McGiver

I see that the idea of the Boris Burrow Tunnel from NI to Scotland has received a warm welcome.

The chair of the Northern Ireland Select Committee has said a train in any undersea tunnel between here and Great Britain could be pulled by an “inexhaustible herd of unicorns overseen by stern, officious dodos”.

However, Conservative MP Mr Hoare blasted the tunnel idea, stating that “Puff the Magic Dragon” could be the inspector.
“Let’s concentrate on making the [Northern Ireland] protocol work and put the hallucinogenics down,” he tweeted.

This is absolutely hilarious and spectacular, for British manners, to be so frank and sarcastic.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/boris-burrow-tunnel-train-could-be-pulled-by-unicorns-says-ni-committee-chair-40089962.html

RobMc59

CelticRambler wrote: »

Only bilingual in the sense that I learnt French in school. While my level now might be better than it was when I did my Leaving Cert, I was only the same as any other Irish person before I came to France. There are dozens (probably hundreds, maybe even thousands) of jobs advertised in France that require fluent English because they have an important international component to them. Depending on the sector, even in France some employers consider that to be the most criterion - you're not being employed to discuss the finer points of Sartre's philosophy or expound on the cinematic works of Tati.

In the context of the job I'm looking at, I would be competing with Germans, Dutch, Swiss, maybe the odd Belgian ... but no British, unless they're already here and fully integrated. And that suits me just fine. :cool:

Indeed,protectionism of the highest order.

Leroy42

RobMc59 wrote: »

Indeed,protectionism of the highest order.

Says the Uk that doesn't want to let immigrants in because they take jobs and scrounge off the state!

The Raging Bile Duct

RobMc59 wrote: »

Indeed,protectionism of the highest order.

Are you giving out about the EU having preferential treatment for its own citizens? Absolutely bizarre...

listermint

RobMc59 wrote: »

Indeed,protectionism of the highest order.

oh my lord, the irony. Irony meter is hitting red.

Which is it UK out on its own - good
EU out on its own - bad.

does not compute.

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

Indeed,protectionism of the highest order.

Do you really believe the stuff that you post Rob?
Surely it is a far, far simpler process for a company within the EU to recruit from within the EU rather than go through the bureaucracy required to hire a candidate from a third country?
Sure wasn't reducing bureaucracy a large part of what Brexit was about?

Brussels Sprout

Have you ever noticed that pretty much every newsagent in Ireland sells the Daily Express? It's not even an Irish version of it either like the Sun, Mail and Mirror. It's the full on "The Irish are the useful idiot, naive, pawns of the evil and failing EU". Who the hell buys it in Ireland? I've literally never seen anyone reading a copy of it and yet there it is on nearly every news stand.

RobMc59

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Do you really believe the stuff that you post Rob?
Surely it is a far, far simpler process for a company within the EU to recruit from within the EU rather than go through the bureaucracy required to hire a candidate from a third country?
Sure wasn't reducing bureaucracy a large part of what Brexit was about?

You're probably right Seth,the bureaucracy of the EU with its,excessively complicated administrative procedures would be off-putting to recruiters.

johnnyskeleton

RobMc59 wrote: »

You're probably right Seth,the bureaucracy of the EU with its,excessively complicated administrative procedures would be off-putting to recruiters.

Mod note:

Rob banned for trolling

yagan

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Have you ever noticed that pretty much every newsagent in Ireland sells the Daily Express? It's not even an Irish version of it either like the Sun, Mail and Mirror. It's the full on "The Irish are the useful idiot, naive, pawns of the evil and failing EU". Who the hell buys it in Ireland? I've literally never seen anyone reading a copy of it and yet there it is on nearly every news stand.

The only people I've seen buy it are british immigrants.

kowloon

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Have you ever noticed that pretty much every newsagent in Ireland sells the Daily Express? It's not even an Irish version of it either like the Sun, Mail and Mirror. It's the full on "The Irish are the useful idiot, naive, pawns of the evil and failing EU". Who the hell buys it in Ireland? I've literally never seen anyone reading a copy of it and yet there it is on nearly every news stand.

Would you want to be seen reading a copy of it? You take it home and read it in the hidden compartment beneath your sex dungeon like the rest of us.

L1011

Express was selling just about 2000 a day in ROI when the last figures for GB papers in ROI were released. Worst selling GB tabloid by a factor of 14 - once you ignore a dribble of Scottish papers in border areas. Had a great uncle who read the Record every day, for instance.

The UK broadsheets/former broadsheets do very badly. Telegraph was 1800, Guardian also about 2000 (but really more like 400 a day on weekdays and 8000 on Saturday - and slightly rising in a falling market), Financial Times about 2200 and The Times 3300.