Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

kowloon

L1011 wrote: »

The UK broadsheets/former broadsheets do very badly. Telegraph was 1800, Guardian also about 2000 (but really more like 400 a day on weekdays and 8000 on Saturday - and slightly rising in a falling market), Financial Times about 2200 and The Times 3300.

Those are shockingly low numbers! Surprised they even bother.

ancapailldorcha

kowloon wrote: »

Those are shockingly low numbers! Surprised they even bother.

I'd say a lot of their revenue comes from digital subscriptions and advertising.

L1011

I doubt the Express sell much advertising to Ireland, but the Sunday Post has continued to try extend distribution and sales here on sales in three figures only. If you can keep distribution costs low its still a bit more profit.

Super-niche ad sales like that only work when you have a cohesive and viable audience to sell to. Trade publications can sell decent amounts of ads on 800 circulation, the SBP has had occasional years of profits on ~25,000 circulation (once a week at that) because their audience would generally be Considerably Richer Than You, international news networks live off ads for MRI machines and dodgy international investments targeting their specific premium audiences. But the Express's audience here would not be cohesive, influential or rich.

wexfordman2

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Have you ever noticed that pretty much every newsagent in Ireland sells the Daily Express? It's not even an Irish version of it either like the Sun, Mail and Mirror. It's the full on "The Irish are the useful idiot, naive, pawns of the evil and failing EU". Who the hell buys it in Ireland? I've literally never seen anyone reading a copy of it and yet there it is on nearly every news stand.

Its a rag that condones and promost4s racism, xenophobia and the most disgusting levels homophobia you could imagine for a so called.daily newspaper.

I have in mind to make.some.official complaints to some.of the major supermarkets that stock it, I've been keeping some records of stories and .operation techniques on the Website, the outright blatant anti irish tone of that entire rag is disgusting, it should even be allowed publish.

redcup342

RobMc59 wrote: »

The point I was making is unless you are multilingual,only speaking English has just become a disadvantage.
I assume you are bilingual?How likely you'd be a serious contender for the position if you couldn't speak acceptable French.?

Not really, English is the common language in many industries.

Also people from many countries learn English as a common language. I.E. you have more opportunities learning English than learning German if moving countries is your thing.

Definitely the case now though that companies on the continent won’t go near a person with a UK passport unless they already have a right to work or it’s something very hard to fill from the rest of the market.

Not speaking Dutch for a highly skilled position in Holland is no problem, if the company has to involve the IND (immigration office) the brits are now on a level playing field with the Americans and they’ll hire someone with an automatic right to work first

CelticRambler

Speaking of level playing fields ... UK airlines warn of job losses as they lose business to Brexit

British cargo, charter and leasing airlines say they are losing contracts and business to EU rivals after the Brexit deal failed to ensure a promised level playing field.

The carriers say they are severely disadvantaged under the new post-Brexit regime because the rules and practices Britain has unilaterally adopted allow greater freedom and flexibility for EU-owned airlines to fly in the UK than UK carriers have in Europe.

Permits are now required for foreign carriers to fly ad hoc flights between the UK and mainland Europe, which EU airlines have been able to obtain faster than British rivals and therefore are winning more business.

Look at that: rules and practices Britain has unilaterally adopted - so they have no problem allowing EU airlines steal business from British companies, but they blew a fuse when the EU suggested that it'd be nice to let musicians play gigs in each other's territories for a few months a year without visas or excessive customs controls ... ? Is there anyone left in Whitehall who knows how the world works these days? Anyone who can negotiate even the smallest deal that ends up with Britain coming out on top?

joeysoap

On speaking English: was in a supermarket in Portugal a few years ago and I asked a staff member if they spoke English ‘ I wouldn’t be her if I didn’t ‘ was the reply I got . That was in the Algarve- not Lisbon.

tubercolossus

joeysoap wrote: »

On speaking English: was in a supermarket in Portugal a few years ago and I asked a staff member if they spoke English ‘ I wouldn’t be her if I didn’t ‘ was the reply I got . That was in the Algarve- not Lisbon.

Makes perfect sense. Mostly English-speaking tourists in the Algarve, much less so in Lisbon.

Peregrinus

RobMc59 wrote: »

The point I was making is unless you are multilingual,only speaking English has just become a disadvantage.
?

Yes. That's a consequence of Brexit.

What gives, Rob? You're supposed to be defending Brexit here, not pointing out the harm it does.

joeysoap

joeysoap wrote: »

On speaking English: was in a supermarket in Portugal a few years ago and I asked a staff member if they spoke English ‘ I wouldn’t be her if I didn’t ‘ was the reply I got . That was in the Algarve- not Lisbon.

Are the Portuguese staff as grumpy as they are in Spain.

dogbert27

So Irish people are now disadvantaged for working in the mainland if we can only speak English. :rolleyes:

I've been working over 5 years in Europe with only English. Even though I try to use what little I know of the local language once people hear I'm not from their country they switch to English automatically and they are happy to speak it as they want to practice their English to the detriment of me practicing the local language!

Knowing that I only speak English I have also been approached for positions in Sweden, Germany, Holland, France, Italy, Switzerland and Austria.

Even though Swedish is the second language of Finland and they learn it for years in school Finns and Swedes still prefer to communicate in English rather than the Finn attempting their school level Swedish and trying to understand the Swedish dialect of the person they are talking to.

Working around Europe you see how diverse the workforce is in terms of nationalities due to Free Movement of People.

People from the UK are now at a disadvantage but not because they can only speak English.

Disadvantaged Irish people? Not so much.

Padre_Pio

dogbert27 wrote: »

So Irish people are now disadvantaged for working in the mainland if we can only speak English. :rolleyes:

English is the language of business.
If a German and a Spaniard want to talk, they'll talk in English.

Germans and Nordics generally have fantastic English. Spanish and Italians have decent English. French have good English, but don't like to use it

We're lucky we speak a popular language.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the Portuguese staff as grumpy as they are in Spain.

Portuguese folk are, by and large, lovely people with much better manners than most Spanish people working in similar industries*. They're very approachable and have great manners in greeting/saying good night as you pass them in the street. Miles apart from what I've experienced in Spanish resorts.

*A more cynical man than I might suggest that years of putting up with drunk Irish and British dopes may have made them more battle-hardened, but that's impossible to quantify.

Sam Russell

I know a couple (known them for years) - he was born native English but has lived most/all of his life in Switzerland since he was two and speaks native French/English and excellent German and probably Portuguese, while she is Portuguese but speaks French and English. Their children are spoken to in only Portuguese by her, and in French by him and in English by their grandmother. They are/will be educated in French. Portuguese is so that they can converse with their Portuguese grandparents.

They will grow up being native speakers of English, French, Portuguese and working German. That is not uncommon in Switzerland to have three languages - the fourth is a bonus..

In Ireland, we need to up our game as far as languages are concerned.

Christy42

Sam Russell wrote: »

I know a couple (known them for years) - he was born native English but has lived most/all of his life in Switzerland since he was two and speaks native French/English and excellent German and probably Portuguese, while she is Portuguese but speaks French and English. Their children are spoken to in only Portuguese by her, and in French by him and in English by their grandmother. They are/will be educated in French. Portuguese is so that they can converse with their Portuguese grandparents.

They will grow up being native speakers of English, French, Portuguese and working German. That is not uncommon in Switzerland to have three languages - the fourth is a bonus..

In Ireland, we need to up our game as far as languages are concerned.

Sure but that has little to do with Brexit. We needed to do that anyway. English is still a major advantage for us even if there are areas we could improve on.

I don't know if it is our slight separation to the continent or the fact that our main language is the international language that hurts us in this regard.

20silkcut

Just watched a video by Phil moor house where he discusses the policy of keir starmer not tackling Boris Johnson over brexit.
Interestingly he quotes opinion polls showing a clear majority of the British public expressing the view that leaving the EU was a bad idea but when asked should they rejoin there is a 50:50 split.

What you could possibly do in a situation like that? Clearly a good 15-20% or so of British voters think brexit is bad but are willing to put up with it.

lawred2

20silkcut wrote: »

Just watched a video by Phil moor house where he discusses the policy of keir starmer not tackling Boris Johnson over brexit.
Interestingly he quotes opinion polls showing a clear majority of the British public expressing the view that leaving the EU was a bad idea but when asked should they rejoin there is a 50:50 split.

What you could possibly do in a situation like that? Clearly a good 20% or so of British voters think brexit is bad but are willing to put up with it.

5 years of Brexit would exhaust you to be fair

listermint

20silkcut wrote: »

Just watched a video by Phil moor house where he discusses the policy of keir starmer not tackling Boris Johnson over brexit.
Interestingly he quotes opinion polls showing a clear majority of the British public expressing the view that leaving the EU was a bad idea but when asked should they rejoin there is a 50:50 split.

What you could possibly do in a situation like that? Clearly a good 15-20% or so of British voters think brexit is bad but are willing to put up with it.

Forget brexit for a minute. Starmer is not even holding them to account for their procurement practises or even what they are doing to make things better. Or pointing out closing factory lines etc.

He's doing a Terrible job of holding up any of the negatives that are occuring right now. Brexits done. But what are torie polices to fix the results.

ancapailldorcha

listermint wrote: »

Forget brexit for a minute. Starmer is not even holding them to account for their procurement practises or even what they are doing to make things better. Or pointing out closing factory lines etc.

He's doing a Terrible job of holding up any of the negatives that are occuring right now. Brexits done. But what are torie polices to fix the results.

The results are Tory policy. Not the manifesto stuff but the actual idea. There's so many small things they could have done to sweeten the deal like visas for musicians, Erasmus and so on but the cruelty is the point.

As Ian Dunt said yesterday, we're just not seeing much of Starmer on this or anything else for that matter. It's disappointing. I can see why he wants to leave the Brexit debate alone but procurement matters and it's been farmed out to friends of Tory MP's. That merits scrutiny.

redcup342

20silkcut wrote: »

Just watched a video by Phil moor house where he discusses the policy of keir starmer not tackling Boris Johnson over brexit.
Interestingly he quotes opinion polls showing a clear majority of the British public expressing the view that leaving the EU was a bad idea but when asked should they rejoin there is a 50:50 split.

What you could possibly do in a situation like that? Clearly a good 15-20% or so of British voters think brexit is bad but are willing to put up with it.

Even people who voted remain would have difficulty now accepting that rejoining would be a good thing, many of them accepted this was the vote of the people and it should be respected.

Of course you'll have the hardcore Eurolovers but to be fair many of them are voters just keeping the status quo.

For those, rejoining the EU under a different arrangement would be an even more daunting task.

Coupled with the UK is now rushing into Trade Deals with other entities (CANZUK and that Pacific Alliance thing) they are deviating further and further from the state they were in when they left the Union.

Best we can hope for long term is some sort of Norway/Switzerland arrangement, it's not exactly a good arrangement but you get used to it. The only reason its a pain for them now is that you don't realise you had something good until it's gone.

I will continue to smuggle sausages and cheese over the Swiss border when travelling that way :pac:

All of the issues to date with Trade, Food etc have been caused by Brexit.

Essentially it's like the someone got divorced and is now annoyed with the arrangement and wants to revisit the terms of the divorce.

20silkcut

20silkcut wrote: »

Just watched a video by Phil moor house where he discusses the policy of keir starmer not tackling Boris Johnson over brexit.
Interestingly he quotes opinion polls showing a clear majority of the British public expressing the view that leaving the EU was a bad idea but when asked should they rejoin there is a 50:50 split.

What you could possibly do in a situation like that? Clearly a good 15-20% or so of British voters think brexit is bad but are willing to put up with it.

The thoughts of rejoining on far worse terms & conditions that what was previously enjoyed, would he a huge disincentive for many.

dogbert27

20silkcut wrote: »

Just watched a video by Phil moor house where he discusses the policy of keir starmer not tackling Boris Johnson over brexit.
Interestingly he quotes opinion polls showing a clear majority of the British public expressing the view that leaving the EU was a bad idea but when asked should they rejoin there is a 50:50 split.

What you could possibly do in a situation like that? Clearly a good 15-20% or so of British voters think brexit is bad but are willing to put up with it.

It's too early for him to attack Johnson's version of Brexit. He'll have to wait until about July when the real affects can be seen.

Also the public haven't seen any immediate impact to their lives (like Rob!) so it's too early again for him to target changing more moderate Brexiteers over.

The current government are also playing a PR game where they are selling their vaccine roll out as a way of proving Brexit was the right choice. Rightly or wrongly if he was to argue against this the public mood could turn against him rather than with him.

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

The thoughts of rejoining on far worse terms & conditions that what was previously enjoyed, would he a huge disincentive for many.

I doubt that the route back into the EU would be an application to join.

It is much more likely that a series of 'easements' of the current deal will get them back towards SM and ultimately, the CU. They will be able to continue with that for the 50 years that Mogg said it will take to derive the 'benefits' of leaving the EU.

Of course, if NI and Scotland leave the UK, matters might quicken.

ancapailldorcha

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Why are posters above assuming that everyone wants them back? I suspect many in Ireland and Brussels are secretely delighted the Brits have left and in process might push NI to rejoin Ireland, while no longer having to listen to nonsense from British MEPs. EU has enough issues at moment (Covid, Climate, Italy, Hungary, Poland, Russia doing its thing) than be distracted further by UK

The UK is an important trading partner for many EU states. The only people delighted that Brexit has happened are dodgy financiers and working class people who seem to think it's a win for some reason.

Enzokk

Maros Sefcovic is meeting with the Irish Parliament this morning, here is some highlights.

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1361627873141018625?s=20

So Article 16 wasn't activated, it was a draft proposal to activate it. As for the problems with the NI Protocol and why this is happening,

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1361641505912455170?s=20

So the UK was offered another transition and in their shortsightedness to just get Brexit done they decided on this grace period instead.

And finally just on the EU strategy for vaccines rollout,

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1361646043197276165?s=20

Let us hope this comes to pass. If we can have most people vaccinated by end of summer it will be a benefit to all of us.

ancapailldorcha

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

That is rapidly changing however, here in Ireland we went from 12 to 6% of exports since this Brexit saga started I believe, the next CSO report would be very interesting.

By this stage I (and I suspect many brexiteers) would be happy if UK mails us back the keys to NI and sails off into the Pacific

Right but in an ideal world this change wouldn't have been necessary. Ireland could have deepened trading links with Europe while enjoying its trade with the UK. There's no reason for anyone outside of certain clubs in London to be glad.

ArmaniJeanss

I don't think they'd be welcome back until both the two main parties clearly support Re-join.

Even a re-join referendum vote of 51/49 or something under a Labour government is pointless, if the opposition party is liable to have another vote to leave when they get into power.

We've used the 'gym membership' analogy a few times, but it falls down here as EU membership isn't something you can do on a year-on/year-off basis.

Marriage is a better analogy, very hard to change once you're in one - if you leave it, you almost never return to the same partner.

yagan

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Right but in an ideal world this change wouldn't have been necessary. Ireland could have deepened trading links with Europe while enjoying its trade with the UK. There's no reason for anyone outside of certain clubs in London to be glad.

A century ago Britain was 90% of our export market, now that's gone below 10% and dwindling.

Brexit is not a pro business or pro trade movement. It's a populist domestic vote catcher with economic consequences and probably the reason why there's no decent opposition is because Brexit has become an act of faith, a religion beyond rational appraisal.

It's ironic that Britain is becoming the closed state that China was when British gunboats sailed up the Yangtze.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Marriage is a better analogy, very hard to change once you're in one - if you leave it, you almost never return to the same partner.

That's just silly. Geography means that the UK and the EU are going to have to deal with each other no matter what. A decent relationship is in the best interests of both parties.