Ireland is a pretend football country

Did you smash it

dan1895 wrote: »

You do realise there are plans to rebuild Dalymount funded by DCC?

Yes. There are PLANS to build an overly small stadium, but what they really wanted and prioritized was a white water rafting facility in the IFSC. That was their real labour of love. Draw your own conclusions.

jakiah

Did you smash it wrote: »

The rebuilding of dalymount would be a capital project (like building a hospital) not a FAI project. The government and Irish people in general just can’t be arsed.

And yet Tallaght stadium is a publically funded UEFA category 4 venue. Bohs themselves shoulder much of the blame for the disastrous state of Dalymount.

Did you smash it

jakiah wrote: »

And yet Tallaght stadium is a publically funded UEFA category 4 venue. Bohs themselves shoulder much of the blame for the disastrous state of Dalymount.

Bravo, now it’s about 20 years overdue to do the same on Dalymount.

Or maybe it’s not. Maybe we just don’t care about things like the state of Dalymount and we should just get on with our lives and just write off football in the country.

randd1

Did you smash it wrote: »

The rebuilding of dalymount would be a capital project (like building a hospital) not a FAI project. The government and Irish people in general just can’t be arsed.

https://www.the42.ie/dalymount-park-4964646-Jan2020/


It also looks like it's going to benefit the local area in general and not just the club. Well worthy an allocation of close to a million quid.


It's also been noted as one of the few times a strong proposal with long term benefits has been brought forward regarding a LOI club, or in this case two.


Again, get your ducks in a row seems to matter heavily when it comes to funding. The Dalymount re-development seems well thought out.


If something similar was to happen in Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Galway and with a few other Dublin clubs, we might see a few decent stadiums around the place that.


Also note the €2m that's available for a centre of excellence once the FAI get a bit more of their shi*e sorted out.

jakiah

Did you smash it wrote: »

Bravo, now it’s about 20 years overdue to do the same on Dalymount.

Or maybe it’s not. Maybe we just don’t care about things like the state of Dalymount and we should just get on with our lives and just write off football in the country.

Much of the reason it is overdue is due to the fact that the ownership of the stadium and grounds was tied up in legal wrangling for years after Bohs sold the ground to multiple parties, back when they were venture capitalists and not cappucino communists.



There are no simplistic solutions to anything in the world of Irish football Im afraid.

randd1

Did you smash it wrote: »

Yes. There are PLANS to build an overly small stadium, but what they really wanted and prioritized was a white water rafting facility in the IFSC. That was their real labour of love. Draw your own conclusions.

Dalymount's re-development is for Bohs, Shelbourne, their fans and the local area. A few tens of thousands at the most.


The white water rafting facility is for an area of Dublin that needs a few more jobs, and is being promoted to the whole country of 5 million, not to mention tourists.


Not exactly chalk and cheese.

MrMusician18

Did you smash it wrote: »

That would mean all FAI property would be sold off..if they own abbotstown and the AUL and their share of the Aviva it’s sold off to service debt. All employees are laid off. We may not be able to enter UEFA competitions. Domestic competitions are thrown into turmoil at best.

You start at year dot in a country that ultimately doesn’t really care about football, doesn’t have a home stadium, doesn’t have a HQ and doesn’t have any income.

It would be a strange turn of events to ever make that an advantageous situation.

So what, that's what happens when management runs a company into the ground. Someone else could come along and set up a soccer association and hopefully they'd be better at running the company.

It's not about turning it into an advantageous situation, it's about treating the FAI like every other company. Just because they have a handful of employees that run around a field in green shirts shouldn't make them any different to any other business in terms of the support it receives.

Fr Tod Umptious

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Soccer in Ireland had a couple of problems. Firstly the FAI choose to live their own pockets with the fruits of the golden generation of the 90's that they stumbled upon. I would liken this to finding an oil well on your property and squandering the profits on fast cars and drugs instead of building a sustainable legacy for when the oil ran out. And the FAI's well is certainly dry.

The other side of the coin is that there is little real support for soccer in Ireland. The vast majority of money spent of football here is on Sky subs, EPL shirts and trips to Manchester and Liverpool.

So when you combine an organising body interested only in short termism self enrichment and a public not really interested at all, then the situation today is the inevitable result.

Tbh the FAI should've been let go to the wall.

This is key
There is very little revenue the FAI can generate from soccer fans
We hear so much about soccer being the biggest participation sport in Ireland etc

But most of it is on astros rented from the GAA, with guys wearing EPL kits, talking about the last match that was on Sky or their next trip to Liverpool.

Did you smash it

randd1 wrote: »

Dalymount's re-development is for Bohs, Shelbourne, their fans and the local area. A few tens of thousands at the most.


The white water rafting facility is for an area of Dublin that needs a few more jobs, and is being promoted to the whole country of 5 million, not to mention tourists.


Not exactly chalk and cheese.

If you think a white water rafting facility in the IFSC is providing more to the city of Dublin in terms of the local economy, tax revenue and employment than a football stadium well I wouldn’t agree.

Did you smash it

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This is key
There is very little revenue the FAI can generate from soccer fans
We hear so much about soccer being the biggest participation sport in Ireland etc

But most of it is on astros rented from the GAA, with guys wearing EPL kits, talking about the last match that was on Sky or their next trip to Liverpool.

Indeed, it was said in the first post so it’s not a new point in the debate but yes it is key.

jakiah

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So what, that's what happens when management runs a company into the ground. Someone else could come along and set up a soccer association and hopefully they'd be better at running the company.

It's not about turning it into an advantageous situation, it's about treating the FAI like every other company. Just because they have a handful of employees that run around a field in green shirts shouldn't make them any different to any other business in terms of the support it receives.

Thats not how football works, FIFA run football with an iron fist. You cannot just start a new football association and off you go.

EmmetSpiceland

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But most of it is on astros rented from the GAA, with guys wearing EPL kits, talking about the last match that was on Sky or their next trip to Liverpool.

It is well known, at this stage, that LoI attendances massively benefitted from Man United going shít. All the ex-United fans started beating the “pure” football drum.

Saying the EPL was “too commercial” now and there’s nothing better than “live football”. All that mealy-mouthed shíte, they were just fickle, fair weather supports who flocked to support Rovers or Bohs when their team turned muck.

The real fear, now, is that the United jerseys with be dusted off, stretched over the protruding belly and it’ll be off to the pub to yell at the tv and “complain” about Ole. I haven’t seen too many jerseys around for a long time, very few United fans around when Liverpool won the champions league and premiership, so there’s still hope but with this fickle lot I just wouldn’t hold my breath.

ligerdub

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

It is well known, at this stage, that LoI attendances massively benefitted from Man United going shít. All the ex-United fans started beating the “pure” football drum.

Saying the EPL was “too commercial” now and there’s nothing better than “live football”. All that mealy-mouthed shíte, they were just fickle, fair weather supports who flocked to support Rovers or Bohs when their team turned muck.

The real fear, now, is that the United jerseys with be dusted off, stretched over the protruding belly and it’ll be off to the pub to yell at the tv and “complain” about Ole. I haven’t seen too many jerseys around for a long time, very few United fans around when Liverpool won the champions league and premiership, so there’s still hope but with this fickle lot I just wouldn’t hold my breath.

Would you by any chance support Liverpool?

Snickers Man

randd1 wrote: »

With Brexit now a thing, it's unlikely that players will be going to the UK before they're 18 unless they're exceptional talents,

That was ALWAYS the case.

I grew up in real soccer town in the 1970s where local scouts would send several players over on trial to English clubs at age 15-16. They were nearly always told "Look. You're a good player but not a great player. If you lived here, we might take you on as an apprentice but you don't so the investment we have to make is higher. You're very young. You will miss your parents and friends. You have a funny accent. You will be living in digs. You will get homesick. You will go home for a weekend and not want to come back. So unless you show EXCEPTIONAL promise, we're not interested at this stage. Go and play a few years in the League of Ireland/Irish League and if you're still any good by the time you're 19/20, we might reconsider."

Think back to how many of Ireland's best players didn't make it over to Britain until they were 19/20.
They include Ronnie Whelan, Paul McGrath, Roy Keane, etc. Ok so the likes of Liam Brady, Frank Stapleton, Robbie Keane etc made it over very young but they WERE exceptional.

With the advent of Social Media, Ryanair flights, SMS, videoconferencing etc the wrench from home was not so severe or so final and with players' costs accelerating through the roof it became financially viable for English teams to look at young Irish players again. Some of them made it, but how many great young prospects never really came to fruition?

I remember several players being touted as the Next Great Irish Player, the likes of Richie Partridge and Steven McPhail. What ever became of them? McPhail had a solid career in mid-ranking teams but never climbed the heights he was expected to. Partridge? What ever happened to him? And then of course there was the legendary Ronnie O'Brien...

It's not Brexit that has or will screw up Irish player development. That has already been done by the Bosman ruling and the determination of EPL clubs to get their best prospects from anywhere in the world. Which they do. Inevitably, Irish players now congregate around clubs that yo yo between the Premiership and the Championship.

FFS even playing Luxemburg the only player on the park to have played in the Champions League group stages this season was a Luxemburger.

IF Brexit has any benefit at all, it will bring home to us the stark reality that the days of good Irish prospects learning and/or honing their skills in the top English clubs are over.

If we want to be a decent INTERnational side we have to build a decent NATIONAL league.

So put away your United/Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea regalia, cancel your subscription to Sky Sports and focus on local football. And if you don't, then forget about blaming the likes of John Delaney for everything.
We get the football team we deserve.
Actually, we HAVE the football team we deserve.

EmmetSpiceland

ligerdub wrote: »

Would you by any chance support Liverpool?

God no. Leeds fan here. And didn’t desert them when they “fell from grace” either.

But, I have to say, I did feel sorry for the Liverpool fans in the office, and ones in my “social circles”, who suddenly found that the United fans who’d given them so much grief over the years were sudden ex-United fans who either said they no longer followed soccer or that they now followed LoI, with the reasons given above.

Very fickle.

jakiah

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

God no. Leeds fan here. And didn’t desert them when they “fell from grace” either.

But, I have to say, I did feel sorry for the Liverpool fans in the office, and ones in my “social circles”, who suddenly found that the United fans who’d given them so much grief over the years were sudden ex-United fans who either said they no longer followed soccer or that they now followed LoI, with the reasons given above.

Very fickle.

I dont see the point of having a go at lads who "support" clubs in England, which they have no connection with, in towns they have often never even visited, for switching allegience and/or dropping support for "their" clubs when times get rough. Nobody takes these people seriously as football fans (except themselves). If some of them want to come along to LOI then great. It will click with some of them what they were missing and they will stick around.

randd1

jakiah wrote: »

Thats not how football works, FIFA run football with an iron fist. You cannot just start a new football association and off you go.

You can let the FAI die off, create a new national association and apply to join FIFA. Given it would simply be a replacement job, I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

EmmetSpiceland

jakiah wrote: »

I dont see the point of having a go at lads who "support" clubs in England, which they have no connection with, in towns they have often never even visited, for switching allegience and/or dropping support for "their" clubs when times get rough. Nobody takes these people seriously as football fans (except themselves). If some of them want to come along to LOI then great. It will click with some of them what they were missing and they will stick around.

Yes, it’s great if the “support” grows for the LoI but the fear would be that if United continue to win games, even by playing so poorly, that it will attract these fickle, fair weather, fans back and they’ll ditch their newly adopted team

jakiah

randd1 wrote: »

You can let the FAI die off, create a new national association and apply to join FIFA. Given it would simply be a replacement job, I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

Of course they'd mind, they have a number of national associations suspended at any given time for this sort of stuff. Withdrawal of government funding is seen as 'political inteference'. They need to rubberstamp the individuals who run these associations to keep the gravy train running. FIFA corruption has not gone anywhere.



Even a short period of suspension from football for the international team and domestic clubs in European competition would devastate senior football here. No senior international mens team income and a season without UEFA prizemoney would have all the larger clubs fold. The LOI is not viable without the bigger clubs. No LOI means no national team.


Even the biggest clubs here are constantly on the brink. Balance sheets after the Covid hit season would make your eyes water. Not bailing out the FAI was never in question. The optics alone were totally unacceptable for the government. Imagine a western country not being able to field an international football team, it would make us look like a basket case.

Did you smash it

jakiah wrote: »

Of course they'd mind, they have a number of national associations suspended at any given time for this sort of stuff. Withdrawal of government funding is seen as 'political inteference'. They need to rubberstamp the individuals who run these associations to keep the gravy train running. FIFA corruption has not gone anywhere.



Even a short period of suspension from football for the international team and domestic clubs in European competition would devastate senior football here. No senior international mens team income and a season without UEFA prizemoney would have all the larger clubs fold. The LOI is not viable without the bigger clubs. No LOI means no national team.


Even the biggest clubs here are constantly on the brink. Balance sheets after the Covid hit season would make your eyes water. Not bailing out the FAI was never in question. The optics alone were totally unacceptable for the government. Imagine a western country not being able to field an international football team, it would make us look like a basket case.

Exactly, both for practical, optics and the because it was the right thing to do. Bailing out the FAI was never not going to happen.

jakiah

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yes, it’s great if the “support” grows for the LoI but the fear would be that if United continue to win games, even by playing so poorly, that it will attract these fickle, fair weather, fans back and they’ll ditch their newly adopted team

You are absolutely right. Progressive Irish football clubs stopped thinking they could attract the Irish premiership fan in any serious numbers years ago. They are not football fans, they are akin to lads in Africa or Asia who buy into PL marketing and consume football like TV or video games, just theyve been at it longer. Focus has switched to developing young support (like at Rovers) or taking 'alternative' marketing angles (like at Bohs) with a moderate measure of success since.

randd1

jakiah wrote: »

Of course they'd mind, they have a number of national associations suspended at any given time for this sort of stuff. Withdrawal of government funding is seen as 'political inteference'. They need to rubberstamp the individuals who run these associations to keep the gravy train running. FIFA corruption has not gone anywhere.



Even a short period of suspension from football for the international team and domestic clubs in European competition would devastate senior football here. No senior international mens team income and a season without UEFA prizemoney would have all the larger clubs fold. The LOI is not viable without the bigger clubs. No LOI means no national team.


Even the biggest clubs here are constantly on the brink. Balance sheets after the Covid hit season would make your eyes water. Not bailing out the FAI was never in question. The optics alone were totally unacceptable for the government. Imagine a western country not being able to field an international football team, it would make us look like a basket case.

If the FAI shoe fits...

randd1

jakiah wrote: »

You are absolutely right. Progressive Irish football clubs stopped thinking they could attract the Irish premiership fan in any serious numbers years ago. They are not football fans, they are akin to lads in Africa or Asia who buy into PL marketing and consume football like TV or video games, just theyve been at it longer. Focus has switched to developing young support (like at Rovers) or taking 'alternative' marketing angles (like at Bohs) with a moderate measure of success since.

What defines a football fan? I don't go to LOI games. I don't got to Premier League games either. If I had the choice of watching either, I'd watch the Premier League. Why? It's better to watch.


I do watch games on the telly.
I do like the sport, I love watching the great players, the champions league, the World Cups.
I do play it when I can.
I do kick the ball around with my two young lads (5 & 2), try to teach them how to kick and pass properly.
I've played for my local community club.


I'd imagine most soccer fans are like that. Most that I know anyway. Are we all somehow lesser fans of the sport for it?


Maybe the reason they don't follow the LOI in greater numbers is they meet attitudes like yours?

jakiah

randd1 wrote: »

If the FAI shoe fits...

Haha, Im not saying we arent a basket case, just that we cant be seen to be a basket case.


No chance Ireland was going to end up on this list:


https://www.sportsmax.tv/index.php/football/regional/item/70480-fifa-s-bad-boys-t-t-joins-long-list-of-countries-falling-afoul-of-football-federation-laws

jakiah

randd1 wrote: »

What defines a football fan?

The saying goes 'For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible'.


Ive been lucky enough to follow football and meet football fans all over the world, in the grounds, in the bars, in the squares. You know them immediately. None of them are interested in having discussions with plastic fans who only "follow" elite clubs on TV miles away, and neither am I tbh.


People can do whatever they want, but these lads dont contribute anything to Irish football so I dont really care and they dont interest me. I'd rather talk to a poxy Bohs fan tbh.

dan1895

randd1 wrote: »

What defines a football fan? I don't go to LOI games. I don't got to Premier League games either. If I had the choice of watching either, I'd watch the Premier League. Why? It's better to watch.


I do watch games on the telly.
I do like the sport, I love watching the great players, the champions league, the World Cups.
I do play it when I can.
I do kick the ball around with my two young lads (5 & 2), try to teach them how to kick and pass properly.
I've played for my local community club.


I'd imagine most soccer fans are like that. Most that I know anyway. Are we all somehow lesser fans of the sport for it?


Maybe the reason they don't follow the LOI in greater numbers is they meet attitudes like yours?

But the lads who go to matches usually do all the stuff you mentioned too.

frosty123

Let's face it half the irish team is the England B team...they can't get a call up for England so they choose Ireland instead

jakiah

frosty123 wrote: »

Let's face it half the irish team is the England B team...they can't get a call up for England so they choose Ireland instead

Only Christie from the starting XI last night would qualify for England I think, so no.

frosty123

jakiah wrote: »

Only Christie from the starting XI last night would qualify for England I think, so no.

Well last night was an exception..but most times it's made up of blow ins.....look at Big Jack's time half the squad spoke with english accents

Did you smash it

jakiah wrote: »

Only Christie from the starting XI last night would qualify for England I think, so no.

On Saturday it was 4 players though. Clark, Collins, cullen and callum. The B Ireland team is full of Irishmen at least.

dan1895

frosty123 wrote: »

Well last night was an exception..but most times it's made up of blow ins.....look at Big Jack's time half the squad spoke with english accents

Big Jack stepped down over twenty five years ago.

randd1

dan1895 wrote: »

But the lads who go to matches usually do all the stuff you mentioned too.

I know.


It's almost like we're not a million miles away from each other in our appreciation of and the joy we take in the sport regardless of who you follow and what level they're playing at. Or if you will, that we're all football fans and neither is more "real" than the other.


A mad notion I tells you.

jakiah

Did you smash it wrote: »

On Saturday it was 4 players though. Clark, Collins, cullen and callum. The B Ireland team is full of Irishmen at least.

Fair enough, I dont know who half the Irish team are tbh, I dont watch much British football.

partyguinness

frosty123 wrote: »

Well last night was an exception..but most times it's made up of blow ins.....look at Big Jack's time half the squad spoke with english accents

I have done a round up of 100% Irish born players in the following Irish squads at major championships:

1988 8
1990 8
1994 8
2002 11
2012 18
2016 16

I am going to include David O'Leary and Paul McGrath as 'Irish born' because while they were technically born in England to Irish parents they moved back to Ireland at a very young age and grew up in Ireland and had Irish accents if that is your measure. Plenty of others like Alan Kelly, Steve Finnan, Terry Phelan, Chris Hughton etc a were born to Irish parent(s).

Too much effort to work out the "Granny" players.

MrMusician18

randd1 wrote: »

I know.


It's almost like we're not a million miles away from each other in our appreciation of and the joy we take in the sport regardless of who you follow and what level they're playing at. Or if you will, that we're all football fans and neither is more "real" than the other.


A mad notion I tells you.

It doesn't mean that you're not a football fan, but it does mean that you're not the type of football fan that Irish soccer needs right now. Irish soccer needs people that will give it money.

StupidLikeAFox

Did you smash it wrote: »

The rebuilding of dalymount would be a capital project (like building a hospital) not a FAI project. The government and Irish people in general just can’t be arsed.

Why would they be arsed with the FAI? Its a horribly run organisation that barely cares about its own.

jakiah

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Why would they be arsed with the FAI? Its a horribly run organisation that barely cares about its own.

Its hardly an outlier in that respect, very few football people like the football associations in their respective countries, they dont use it as yet another excuse to ignore football in their own country.

For Forks Sake

Snickers Man wrote: »

Partridge? What ever happened to him?

Persistent knee injuries did for him. Retrained and was working for Liverpool as a physiotherapist. Married to Michael Owens sister.

French Toast

Why doesn't the national team have a sponsor?

Genuine question, 3 had the gig for a good while.

RedCardKid

French Toast wrote: »

Why doesn't the national team have a sponsor?

Genuine question, 3 had the gig for a good while.

Seems like no one wants to touch them since the whole JD tripe. Not exactly what you would want your brand connected to.

Omackeral

ligerdub wrote: »

Would you by any chance support Liverpool?

No, he just loves beating that particular “drum” on this site. I don’t know if he’s “convinced” himself it’s true but he loves repeating it “ad naseum” nonetheless. Quotation marks.

Beechwoodspark

Fair play to the Norwegians fans.

They are going to vote on whether Norway should compete in the Qatar World Cup

Over 6 thousand migrant workers have died already in Qatar building stadiums etc for the World Cup

For those who aren’t aware Qatar is a human rights cess pit. Shocking conditions. Basically slave Labour.

The Qatar World Cup should be boycotted

WesternZulu

French Toast wrote: »

Why doesn't the national team have a sponsor?

Genuine question, 3 had the gig for a good while.

It's not bad thing if you're a fan looking to buy a jersey. We're the only country that I'm aware of that supporters couldn't buy a jersey that was sponsor-less before now. International soccer teams play without sponsors -it's not a true replica if it has Opel, Eircom, or Three plastered across it.

As someone in their mid-30's I bought the new jersey for this reason. For the first time in my lifetime I can buy an Ireland jersey without a sponsor. So for the first time in nearly 20 years I bought a jersey even though Ireland have never been as poor.

jakiah

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The Qatar World Cup should be boycotted

I wont be watching it. Have to draw the line with the cesspit that is modern football somewhere.

Bobblehats

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Fair play to the Norwegians.

They are going to vote on whether Norway should compete in the Qatar World Cup

Over 6 thousand migrant workers have died already in Qatar building stadiums etc for the World Cup

For those who aren’t aware Qatar is a human rights cess pit.

The Qatar World Cup should be boycotted

I got fair embarrassed when they didn't kneel last night... I know its only expected of us sort but we were effectively kneeling before them. Probably used to that type of thing over there.

Fandymo

Bambi wrote: »

Another reason Irish soccer should be allowed to die a death, and end to the insufferable hipster bohs supporter

Bohs are basically an NGO at this stage.

dan1895

WesternZulu wrote: »

It's not bad thing if you're a fan looking to buy a jersey. We're the only country that I'm aware of that supporters couldn't buy a jersey that was sponsor-less before now. International soccer teams play without sponsors -it's not a true replica if it has Opel, Eircom, or Three plastered across it.

As someone in their mid-30's I bought the new jersey for this reason. For the first time in my lifetime I can buy an Ireland jersey without a sponsor. So for the first time in nearly 20 years I bought a jersey even though Ireland have never been as poor.

Snap

fryup

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Over 6 thousand migrant workers have died already in Qatar building stadiums etc for the World Cup

:eek:

are you fukin kidding me??? how come this isn't headline news?

shameful if true, shame on FIFA too

nullzero

fryup wrote: »

:eek:

are you fukin kidding me??? how come this isn't headline news?

shameful if true, shame on FIFA too

FIFA have no shame.

fryup

fryup wrote: »

:eek:

are you fukin kidding me??? how come this isn't headline news?

shameful if true, shame on FIFA too

FIFA don’t have any shame, only business plans. It’s an absolute disgrace they’ve been given the tournament.