Ireland is a pretend football country

Thelonious Monk

48 teams is ridiculous. The new Euro format is ridiculous. The world cup in Qatar is ridiculous. The last real cup was Russia 2018, international tournaments will never be the same again, and they're about to ruin the Champions League even though the group stages kind of ruined that anyway especially with the richer clubs breaking away.
I'd rather Ireland had a decent team that could get to a 32 team world cup or 16 team Euros once in a blue moon.

Did you smash it

Feenix wrote: »

You don't speak for every Ireland fan.

You speak for every event junkie type though so I get where you're coming from.

I know people who would be happy in the moment watching Ireland in a World Cup with an unlimited amount of teams once the pints are flowing and folk in leprechaun hats are signing The Fields of Athenry. Doesn't interest me or anyone else I go to the games with in the slightest.

Yes it was meaningless getting to the last 16 of the euros in 2016 because we qualified as a third place team. No one in the country cared apart from “event junkies”.

It was far better in 2012 when we got into a 16 team tournament.

Load of nonsense.

Fr Tod Umptious

Yurt! wrote: »

The worst part about it is that the World Cup is now doomed to silly co-hosting arrangements from here on in. Gone will be the days of classic tournaments held in one country like France 98.

Why is co-hosting a problem.

The 2002 WC in Japan and South Korea was brilliant and it was co-hosted.

Euro 2012 in Poland and Ukraine likewise.

How in the name of God is co-hosting a problem for someone like yourself ?

I think soccer fans are the most backward, narrow minded people around.

There is a whinge and a complaint about anything modern it innovative.

It's all talk about things being better in the old days, where as in reality things were utter s**t in the days before the money came.

The grounds were s**t, the players were s**t, the supporters were s**t.

Yurt2

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why is co-hosting a problem.

The 2002 WC in Japan and South Korea was brilliant and it was co-hosted.

Euro 2012 in Poland and Ukraine likewise.

How in the name of God is co-hosting a problem for someone like yourself ?

I think soccer fans are the most backward, narrow minded people around.

There is a whinge and a complaint about anything modern it innovative.

It's all talk about things being better in the old days, where as in reality things were utter s**t in the days before the money came.

The grounds were s**t, the players were s**t, the supporters were s**t.

Steady on chief, and have a xanax.


The South Korea & Japan World Cup was not exactly regarded as a classic tournament due to the disjointed nature of two hosting nations and was not a fan favorite. The two organising committees butted heads the whole way and co-hosting was a sop as things got so bitter during the bidding process. Famously, the measuring tape came out hours before the opening ceremony as it was claimed that the circumference red sun in the Japanese flag was larger than the circle in the South Korean flag.

Take a deep breath and count to ten

Did you smash it

Yurt! wrote: »

Famously, the measuring tape came out hours before the opening ceremony as it was claimed that the circumference red sun in the Japanese flag was larger than the circle in the South Korean flag.

Well that changes everything

breezy1985

Greyfox wrote: »

To be honest the qualifiers arent all that exciting anyway. In the last world cup Italy and Holland missed out, I dont think they should run the risk of something like that happening again.

So qualifiers are not exciting when when big teams miss out so we should ringfence big teams so the definitely qualify.
How will that help ?

Fr Tod Umptious

Yurt! wrote: »

Steady on chief, and have a xanax.


The South Korea & Japan World Cup was not exactly regarded as a classic tournament due to the disjointed nature of two hosting nations and was not a fan favorite. The two organising committees butted heads the whole way and co-hosting was a sop as things got so bitter during the bidding process. Famously, the measuring tape came out hours before the opening ceremony as it was claimed that the circumference red sun in the Japanese flag was larger than the circle in the South Korean flag.

Take a deep breath and count to ten

As the other poster said, "that changes everything"

But how exactly do things like the size of an emblem on a flag affect you ?

I was in Japan at the 2002 WC, one of the best holiday I ever had.
It was a brilliant occasion, the local people really embraced it.
I did not go on to South Korea but many I know did.
They really enjoyed it.

At no time from anyone was there some sense of loss that it was not all in the same country.

There was no sense of a disjointed nature about any of it from the people who went there to go to a world cup, and to go to countries in Asia that they may never get the opportunity to do so again.

So again, how does co-hosting adversely affect you, the fan, the onlooker ?

trashcan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's all talk about things being better in the old days, where as in reality things were utter s**t in the days before the money came.

The grounds were s**t, the players were s**t, the supporters were s**t.

What old days were these ? The days of Pele, Maradonna maybe ? Beckenbauer, Mueller, Paolo Rossi, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton ? Yeah, really **** players.

I’m old enough to remember watching every WC finals since 1974. It used to be a fantastic tournament. Spain 82 and Mexico 86 were probably my favourites. Ireland not being involved didn’t stop me from enjoying any of those tournaments.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Yurt! wrote: »

Steady on chief, and have a xanax.


The South Korea & Japan World Cup was not exactly regarded as a classic tournament due to the disjointed nature of two hosting nations and was not a fan favorite. The two organising committees butted heads the whole way and co-hosting was a sop as things got so bitter during the bidding process. Famously, the measuring tape came out hours before the opening ceremony as it was claimed that the circumference red sun in the Japanese flag was larger than the circle in the South Korean flag.

Take a deep breath and count to ten

Part of the problem with that is that FIFA told two countries that hate each other to co-host. There's nothing wrong with co-hosting by two countries on good terms.

Fr Tod Umptious

trashcan wrote: »

What old days were these ? The days of Pele, Maradonna maybe ? Beckenbauer, Mueller, Paolo Rossi, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton ? Yeah, really **** players.

I’m old enough to remember watching every WC finals since 1974. It used to be a fantastic tournament. Spain 82 and Mexico 86 were probably my favourites. Ireland not being involved didn’t stop me from enjoying any of those tournaments.

The old days when 56 people died in a fire because of the state of the stadium.
The old days when 39 people died because of rioting.
The old days when policing and poor facilities resulted in the deaths of 96 people.
The old days when people went to soccer games to fight.
The old days when players trained for a few hours a day then went drinking, turning many into alcoholics and they were still able to keep their places on teams.

Sure the '78, '82 and '86 world cups were enjoyable for the likes of myself when I was a kid and a teen, but the game itself was a complete mess.

And it's only the injection of money and more money that saved it and no one should look at the old days with anything other than distain.

Fr Tod Umptious

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Part of the problem with that is that FIFA told two countries that hate each other to co-host. There's nothing wrong with co-hosting by two countries on good terms.

And yet it didn't make a blind bit of difference to anyone at the tournament or anyone watching at home.
Thus I don't get this negativity towards co-hosting from some internet poster that it will never affect.

Fandymo

Omackeral wrote: »

Had the misfortune of being in a pub for FA Cup Final day for Man United City vs Wigan and the lads going mad at the bar man to turn down ''that Brit sh*te'' when God Save the Queen came on. Newsflash lads, it's a British cup with British teams... it's gonna have a British anthem.

It’s an English cup, with English teams and England don’t have a national anthem.

breezy1985

Fandymo wrote: »

It’s an English cup, with English teams and England don’t have a national anthem.

They use Jerusalem for the Commonwealth games now. Way way better song than that other boring drone of a thing

Fandymo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The old days when 56 people died in a fire because of the state of the stadium.
The old days when 39 people died because of rioting.
The old days when policing and poor facilities resulted in the deaths of 96 people.
The old days when people went to soccer games to fight.
The old days when players trained for a few hours a day then went drinking, turning many into alcoholics and they were still able to keep their places on teams.

Sure the '78, '82 and '86 world cups were enjoyable for the likes of myself when I was a kid and a teen, but the game itself was a complete mess.

And it's only the injection of money and more money that saved it and no one should look at the old days with anything other than distain.

Much better in the good new days when 6,500 die building infrastructure for the Qatari World Cup eh?

EmmetSpiceland

breezy1985 wrote: »

They use Jerusalem for the Commonwealth games now. Way way better song than that other boring drone of a thing

The Emerson, Lake and Palmer version?

breezy1985

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

The Emerson, Lake and Palmer version?

Didn't know it was a thing but hopefully.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Fandymo wrote: »

It’s an English cup, with English teams and England don’t have a national anthem.

Which makes sense, as England isn't a country. But it does have Welsh teams too, and they're all British anyway.

martingriff

Fandymo wrote: »

It’s an English cup, with English teams and England don’t have a national anthem.

Technical is a cup run by the FA as some Welsh and maybe Scottish team do play in it

trashcan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The old days when 56 people died in a fire because of the state of the stadium.
The old days when 39 people died because of rioting.
The old days when policing and poor facilities resulted in the deaths of 96 people.
The old days when people went to soccer games to fight.
The old days when players trained for a few hours a day then went drinking, turning many into alcoholics and they were still able to keep their places on teams.

Sure the '78, '82 and '86 world cups were enjoyable for the likes of myself when I was a kid and a teen, but the game itself was a complete mess.

And it's only the injection of money and more money that saved it and no one should look at the old days with anything other than distain.

Not denying any of that. Yes, stadia are much better now. It’s your assertion that the players were **** I was taking issue with. Players now might be fitter, but the likes of those I mentioned previously and lots more, would be greats in any era.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

martingriff wrote: »

Technical is a cup run by the FA as some Welsh and maybe Scottish team do play in it

Scottish teams did in the 19th century.

Fandymo

martingriff wrote: »

Technical is a cup run by the FA as some Welsh and maybe Scottish team do play in it

It’s fun by the English FA, not the SFA or FAW. There may be a handful of other clubs, but it’s an English competition.

Fandymo

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Which makes sense, as England isn't a country. But it does have Welsh teams too, and they're all British anyway.

England isn’t a country??

breezy1985

Fandymo wrote: »

England isn’t a country??

England is a region really United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland is the country. Even a lot of people from there don't know that

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Fandymo wrote: »

England isn’t a country??

Not really. It's just a part of the UK.

Edgware

Fandymo wrote: »

England isn’t a country??

Is Texas a State?

Quantum Erasure

England is a country that's part of an independent state. Texas is a state that's part of an independent country...

StupidLikeAFox

Not gonna read the whole thread but how did we get from Irish soccer to a geography lesson? Lol

Cilldara_2000

England always has been and still is a country. Same for Scotland. It's a struggle to call Wales a country and by no reasonable definition of the term is NI a country.

Those saying it's not a country. What was Ireland from 1494 to 1782, and again from 1801 to 1922?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

England always has been and still is a country. Same for Scotland. It's a struggle to call Wales a country and by no reasonable definition of the term is NI a country.

Those saying it's not a country. What was Ireland from 1494 to 1782, and again from 1801 to 1922?

From 1801 on, Ireland was definitely not a country. That's why we fought a war to become one.

Cilldara_2000

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

From 1801 on, Ireland was definitely not a country. That's why we fought a war to become one.

Hmmm, I don't agree and I doubt that anyone about at the time would have regarded Ireland as a non-country. Just like almost everyone atm regards England, Scotland, Greenland, Netherlands etc as countries.

A country does not have to be a sovereign independent state. There are more definitions of the word.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Hmmm, I don't agree and I doubt that anyone about at the time would have regarded Ireland as a non-country. Just like almost everyone atm regards England, Scotland, Greenland, Netherlands etc as countries.

A country does not have to be a sovereign independent state. There are more definitions of the word.

The song goes "Ireland long a province be a nation once again" not "Ireland long a country be a different kind of country."

Why wouldn't the Netherlands be a country?

I think many Irish people discredit our nation by comparing ourselves to a mere province like Scotland.

Leroy42

Going back to the OP, until the soccer supporters in Ireland start to take it seriously then why should anyone else?

Blaming everything on Delaney is a cop out. He was ably supported and abetted by many in the game who only care about their own patch.

Massive stadium, massive TV coverage, massive media coverage, plenty of public support. If its not working then the fault lies internally.

The FAI had plenty of money, that didn't fix anything. Like other countries this needs a cultural change.

Instead of waiting for the UK to uncover players for us, we need to create the environment to create and develop them ourselves.

But that takes time, and planning, and patience and plenty of 'failures'. It takes investment in coaching and ensuring talented kids are given every opportunity to maximise their potential. Promising players should be taken centrally and sold to foreign clubs such that every level gets a return not just the selling club.

And ser up academies with European clubs such that players get to experience different training methods, coaching styles, playing styles. 6 month loan spells, to give them a taste.

It is neither easy or simple but other countries show us how it can be done.

And invest in Womens football. Far easier to make improvements there are it is not so competitive (I mean in terms of number of teams, resources etc, not the individual matches). Get some pride from being a top team, that will drive orhers to match it.

Cilldara_2000

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

The song goes "Ireland long a province be a nation once again" not "Ireland long a country be a different kind of country."

Why wouldn't the Netherlands be a country?

I think many Irish people discredit our nation by comparing ourselves to a mere province like Scotland.

The Ireland that's referred to as a province in that song is still not a country by your take it on it.

Also poetic licence. At the time, and still, Ireland has four provinces.

Re: Netherlands

This article is about the sovereign state. For the constituent country with the same name, see Netherlands...

El_Duderino 09

Ireland isn’t a football country. Some countries might have football as their primary sport, but Ireland isn’t one of those countries.

The domestic league isn’t popular and the national team isn’t good. I don’t follow soccer but I do follow other sports. And I don’t follow my teams because they win all the time. I follow them because I enjoy the whole event and it makes it sweeter when they win. It must be a bit tougher to be an Ireland soccer fan but being a fan isn’t really about winning.

I would never describe Ireland as a football country. We don’t really have one international sport in the way New Zealand is a rugby country (thought they also play other sports like soccer and cricket) or Argentina loves soccer.

dublinman1990

I don't really agree with the opinion from some posters here that anyone who have influences of the EPL being completely ignored are inappropriate at this point while we are talking about the reshaping of the FAI while we try to improve the status of the domestic game in the future. My point is that if people here attempt to ignore the opinions of others who have given their time & commitment into shaping the local & domestic football scene in the past that have an influence from the EPL. We really cannot shut that influence off with a snap of the fingers. That style of culture in Irish football has been so interwoven into the fabric of the domestic game over the past 3 decades; it will inevitably collapse into nothing if the external influences are not there to support it in the future.

If you look into how the EPL has helped shaped the game right into the present day; it has given a lot of benefits to offer at the present time to all young kids living here who have given their time & commitment into the sport. It has given them a life that gives them a sense of self-worth that helps them to keep active within their local communities & make a lot of friends well into adulthood. Some of those kids later on in life will have great potential to play for the national team if they get older & get called up to play for a championship or EPL club in the UK. Those individuals will have a great life later on to maybe continue their style of play into a potentially lucrative football career in the future if they work hard to improve themselves in the sport.

If people here give opinions that will try to undo all of that good work with others who give their time & energy into supporting each club around the country by saying that you are giving influences from the EPL for far too long now, if you do that again you will be put on the ignore list straight away. That is not really an appropriate opinion to give at this time because I think that type of dialogue being discussed between people will cause a dangerous precedent in making the future of Irish football much worse than now. It will create a catastrophic domino effect in damaging the status of the domestic game in the future.

I have some family members from the past who have gone & played for schoolboys league & local teams here over the past 20 to 30 years. They have done that while they supported Liverpool since they were young kids. That type of drive & ambition in them has allowed themselves the opportunity to play & be successful for teams within their local communities back then. It has paid off with some benefits with them in winning some trophies in their earlier football careers. They both works as mechanics now & are doing well. And also you have to think of the other Irish people who live outside of Ireland at this current time. They will probably have young kids themselves who have made big commitments to play in foreign football clubs which will give them more foreign influences in how they improve their style of play which could make it spread to the domestic scene here if it was that badly needed. There is a lot of benefits in expanding that reach of infleunce into the Irish domestic game rather than just sticking with the EPL.

These so called plastic football fans who give off these opinions that anyone with an influence in following the EPL should be ignored probably have never ever given their time & commitment to play in the game & should be ignored themselves by others who follows the game.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

The Ireland that's referred to as a province in that song is still not a country by your take it on it.

Also poetic licence. At the time, and still, Ireland has four provinces.

Re: Netherlands

Interesting to see the Dutch use words in the same bizarre way as Brits.

Why isn't Ireland a country now? Because it's partioned? The majority is independent. Indeed, Ireland has and had four provinces, but it functioned as a province within the UK. As Scotland, for instance, does now.

Cilldara_2000

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Interesting to see the Dutch use words in the same bizarre way as Brits.

Why isn't Ireland a country now? Because it's partioned? The majority is independent. Indeed, Ireland has and had four provinces, but it functioned as a province within the UK. As Scotland, for instance, does now.

Perhaps your take on the use of the word country is bizarre. The great thing about the English language is its flexibility which can be fuzziness in some instances. Most people can validly use country to mean a sovereign state when referring to Ireland (just ROI) and also a different thing altogether when also referring to Ireland (the whole island) or England etc.

It’s also interesting that you appear to be able stretch the word province well beyond its actual meaning but can’t accept more that than the first sense of the definition of the word country. :pac:

upandcumming

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

My husband went to a game a few years ago under a “stand” that he said looked like a woodwork room from a technical school, and virtually every time he opened his mouth he was jeered at because of his upper middle class accent and perceived poshness. Not to mention that you never see women or POC at LoI games. I think they really need to work on being more inclusive at those matches

This is up there with the line about settled people going onto the sites to dump their rubbish.

ittakestwo

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

A country does not have to be a sovereign independent state. There are more definitions of the word.

Well a country does have to be sovereign. A nation does not have to be sovereign. Kurdish are a nation of people with no country.

The island of Ireland can be referred to as a nation as there is a nation of Irish people occupying it. The same as England Scotland and wales but none are counties. ROI and the UK are countries as they are sovereign.

Thelonious Monk

Is the revamped Dalymount ever going to happen? Tallaght looked good on tv last night. Ive never been I only go to Bohs but whats it like for matches? Do they have bars and stuff?

I can’t see it ever happening, no. Definitely not to the plans that were shown.

Leroy42

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I can’t see it ever happening, no. Definitely not to the plans that were shown.

There isn't the support base to justify it.

Irish people don't support LOI teams. No getting away from that.

Thelonious Monk

I think Bohs def has the support base, and better facilities would attract more fans

EmmetSpiceland

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think Bohs def has the support base, and better facilities would attract more fans

If they keep up their anti racism, pro immigration, fight against homelessness and other human rights “issues” they will certainly attract more support.

I think the “problem” there is that it might not be the right kind of supporter for the older, more established, fans who don’t agree with the club’s new “ethos”.

Omackeral

Most people who go are just there for the football and the craic of a night out. The woke stuff gets great publicity and it’s worked a treat from the pov of revenue and rubbing people up the wrong way.

The stadium itself is a bit gick but it’s part of the allure tbh. It’s a complete throwback to yesteryear and the swatches of English/Scottish/European visitors tend to love it for that reason.

breezy1985

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

If they keep up their anti racism, pro immigration, fight against homelessness and other human rights “issues” they will certainly attract more support.

I think the “problem” there is that it might not be the right kind of supporter for the older, more established, fans who don’t agree with the club’s new “ethos”.

Well if they are against fighting homelessness and racism then to be honest the more established fans can go F themselves

Thelonious Monk

The woke thing and the craft beer for sale etc attracts new fans from the neighbourhood, you have to be pretty well off to own a place nearby these days and places like Cabra are becoming gentrified.
I don't think the old school fans could care less about the issues they raise though, if people like my uncle are anything to go by.

Fr Tod Umptious

There is a piece in the RTE website this morning about LOI ground redevelopment and Dalymount is covered in it.

From a quick reading of it the redevelopment is not popular with some fans as it might take away from the character of the place.

Typical of the backward thinking from soccer fans.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0401/1207484-grounds-for-redevelopment-modernising-loi-stadiums/

I know the old place has memories and all but I can’t see how anyone would want half a stadium over a new one.

Did you smash it

We don’t expect to go to airports, cinemas or shopping centers from 30-50 years ago but football stadiums, at least in Ireland, it’s ok if they are complete delapidated.