Viability of small dairy farm

Ford4life

Jjameson wrote: »

There was a trumpet blowing article on a platform some time ago about a chap I know.
The gist of it was he was a new one man new entrant to dairying as his dad had got out of cows years ago while he went landscaping,. Now taking over the farm and powering on to 80 cows,
The truth.
His father was a great farmer, had built up 60 cows by mid 90,s. Son took over and father took early retirement scheme. But still done the work! Son would spend time gomming with machinery and ultimately bought 2 tractors on hire purchase,selling cows and setting land (always parked in view of road as would be his shining jeep)cleared cows and was broker than broke when father started him off again with 40 heifers. He is in his seventies but you wouldn’t pay a man to do all he does.
Not one mention of him in the article.
One man powering on to 80 cows.

But most of us have astute bull**** radars I don’t think many entrants to dairying are that unrealistic.

But going back to your family help point I believe a successful dairy farm has to be a family effort.

have to plan to be able to do everything yourself but when help comes your way accept it, father has the reality of its not all shiny machinery beat into me (not the literal meaning of beat, made a joke about one fella living off the SFP, he got it but another fella didnt so clearly have to put up disclaimers from now on )

Ford4life

whelan2 wrote: »

I take a lot of those articles with a pinch of salt. I laugh when lads say how wonderful a job they are doing. Them alone, not one other person lifts a finger. No one built up the farm to what it is, only them. They have a halo over their heads.

Successful farm can depend on how much help you get from others and more important can accept from others, plenty of fellas wont accept help as it would hurt their pride i suppose

Ford4life

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The most.important thing you need when going into farming is to understand it a business. You seem to have a very narrow view of what farming involves. The cheapest man to hire in farming is the idiot sitting on the tractor. It harsh but it is true.

I think you are either very naive or not what you are indicating what you are. By all means follow the path you are thinking we all.need the idiot on the tractor that the contractor pays buttons to.

I know what farming involves lad, i was just saying that for the first few years before i get into dairy i could be the dope up in the tractor driving around the place no harm in more experience
I would prefer to go with a dairy farmer and get experience with high pressure calvings etc. like i have said before and ill say it again im not in it for the money im in farming for the love of the job

Ford4life

K.G. wrote: »

Just referring to my new youtube pet again,creagh farm,his family are a credit to the man.which is more important x number of cows or a family that can stand on their 2 feet

Exactly, theyre not afraid to help at all, like when they were covering the pit last year for example

Kevhog1988

Ford4life wrote: »

I know what farming involves lad, i was just saying that for the first few years before i get into dairy i could be the dope up in the tractor driving around the place no harm in more experience
I would prefer to go with a dairy farmer and get experience with high pressure calvings etc. like i have said before and ill say it again im not in it for the money im in farming for the love of the job

Love of the job doesnt feed kids

Ford4life

Deleted User wrote: »

my ould used work for a lad,who wrote for journal,lambing about 1,400 lowland ewes....this lad used claim himself and son used do all the lambing and lost single digit amount of lambs


The father used have to dump a wheelbarrow/linkbox load of lambs,most days

Where would they dump all those, rent a digger for a few weeks before lambing kind of thing is it? The stink of rot would knock out an elephant if theres that many dying

Ford4life

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I notice that teagasc et al are always pushing dairy. If you look back at all the winners of farmer of the year, young farmer of the year, grassland farmer of the year it's always Dairy farmers that are up for the prise. Most of these so called great farmers are all landed gentry, often in prime land where if you put out canners of cows they would fatten.
You'll never see them promote a new entrant who maybe has to rent out everything and is scraping by,
or a farmer doing something totally different like maybe a bit of food processing.
No instead its get your hands on daddy's land, borrow, borrow, borrow and milk 100 cows
all done sitting next to the stove.

They have to pick the stuff that will appeal to most fellas, thats what gets the views

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

I would have taken them up as they were trying to get across to the young lad that the ecenomics of what he is trying/wanting to do probably dont make sense.

Lot of things i do dont make sense to anyone but myself
The majority of people are very positive about it and say it is viable enough for a starting point so thats fairly reassuring, main thing i see is the fellas saying its not viable are the ones who think making ****loads of money is the only thing that matters in life instead of just being happy with what ya have

Ford4life

eire23 wrote: »

The majority are doing that. I'm only on about one or two posters that seem to have a axe to grind.

Some seem to really not want me to follow my dreams
I am listening to their opinions to be fair and they do have some valid points, i know ya cant live off air alone but i'd hate to be the lad making hundreds of thousands and absolutely despising their job, not wanting to get out of bed in the morning, when i can be the fella making a living and be happy

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Youll get them sort of people everywhere though. The op also seems to think having any sort of debt on a place is madness. You have to spend money to make money makes sense in some instances

I know that i will need loans to get going, i just want to keep the risk to a minimum incase **** hit the fan, i can understand having a bit of debt but its when lads double everything and have to take on labour i dont understand it bringing their debt up to hundreds of thousands for the sake of greed
Before a good farmer was judged by how much he has in the bank, now its a good farmer is considered a fella with the most money out of the bank

Ford4life

K.G. wrote: »

I dont mean this in any disparaging way but there isnt alot to take,everything is kept going and not alot of stuff that anybody else would have much value in

I assume it would be kind of difficult to find where he lives anyway and wouldnt be worth the effort for the value of stuff that is there when theres things a lot easier stolen worth a lot more, quads come to mind as something easily stolen and are worth a good bit

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Love of the job doesnt feed kids

Thats the wifes job to feed the kids Thats the reason for heading into dairy, so i can make a decent living from working full time at what i love that i could support a family easily enough once i could expand to 50/60 cows

davidk1394

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Articles about young fellas an wans of 19 saying that they are running 80 or 100 cows, investing in upgrading facilities with a view to further expansion while simultaneuosly studying for a dregree of some sort in a university. Translation, their daddy does all the donkey work and pays the bills, and while the apple of his eye is away at college and they come back the weekend or odd evening to bollox about with machinery or feed feed a few calves now and then.

They come back to get a good insta pick with their stupid #werestillfarming caption.

Say my name

You'd have to admire anyone that puts themselves out there on YouTube or Instagram or even an online or printed publication.
It's not easy having every jackass in the country commenting on social media about your set up after.


Runs..

Albert Johnson

Ford4life wrote: »

Thats the wifes job to feed the kids Thats the reason for heading into dairy, so i can make a decent living from working full time at what i love that i could support a family easily enough once i could expand to 50/60 cows

That first line is obviously tongue in cheek but I'm reminded of the old adage "When poverty comes in romance goes out". The love of farming is all well and good (it would be nigh on impossible to continue without it imo) but unless you've something to keep the bills paid and food on the table it's going to breed resentment sooner or later. It's grand when your still a young fella and if you suffer from cash crisis you lie low for a few weeks or someone bails you out, it's a different story when you've responsibilities be they offspring, loans ect. There's not many women prepared to spend there life playing second fiddle to a dead end job, money pit of a farm or whatever, its 2021 and the world has largely evolved beyond this.

Secondly have you had any discussion with your father about all this? Everything depends on what he chooses to do with what from my reading at least is HIS property. What if he decides to leave it between your siblings and you and you're faced with having to buy them out at market value? Remember he would also be within his rights to decide he's had enough of working, his family is reared and he's going to flog the lot and retire to a sunny beachside resort somewhere. These are all unlikely but not impossible outcomes and you'd feel a quare Wally to have spent 5 or 10 year's building up your "estate" only to find that it's being sold or willed out from under your feet. I wish you the best of luck regardless and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but remember the auld man is 60 not 85 and he could have a different plan in mind for the next 10 or 15 year's.

carrollsno1

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Have you ever read the Thatsfarming stuff. Full of interviews like that lol.

They always overcame some struggle in life too to get where they are too, usually the leaving certificate and there still in the same spit they were a year ago.

Ford4life

Jjameson wrote: »

Would your dad be up to building/ fitting out parlour?

We would build it together most likely, be no bother to him, he's fresh enough for 59, if he slowed down at all he might seize up I'd draw the blocks and mix away the mortar for him, if he couldn't do it then i'd find help alright and he'd be around to supervise us

Ford4life

davidk1394 wrote: »

They come back to get a good insta pick with their stupid #werestillfarming caption.

Stuff like that wont change the price we get for our products, im only 17 and i understand that
Like with the BLM stuff, i know its a good cause but posting a black picture with a hashtag means absolutely **** all
The petition to get predicted grades optional has 33,000 signatures which is literally half of all 6th years and that **** norma foley still isnt gonna listen to us

Ford4life

Say my name wrote: »

You'd have to admire anyone that puts themselves out there on YouTube or Instagram or even an online or printed publication.
It's not easy having every jackass in the country commenting on social media about your set up after.


Runs..

Like farmer phil, the amount of comments i see saying the yard is a mess, their tractors are old etc. lads cant seem to keep their opinions to themselves anymore (myself included at times but i wouldnt insult a fellas set up because i dont like it)
And the video where he scrapped the combine the amount of nosy ****ers asking how much he got for the scrap

Ford4life

Albert Johnson wrote: »

That first line is obviously tongue in cheek but I'm reminded of the old adage "When poverty comes in romance goes out". The love of farming is all well and good (it would be nigh on impossible to continue without it imo) but unless you've something to keep the bills paid and food on the table it's going to breed resentment sooner or later. It's grand when your still a young fella and if you suffer from cash crisis you lie low for a few weeks or someone bails you out, it's a different story when you've responsibilities be they offspring, loans ect. There's not many women prepared to spend there life playing second fiddle to a dead end job, money pit of a farm or whatever, its 2021 and the world has largely evolved beyond this.

Secondly have you had any discussion with your father about all this? Everything depends on what he chooses to do with what from my reading at least is HIS property. What if he decides to leave it between your siblings and you and you're faced with having to buy them out at market value? Remember he would also be within his rights to decide he's had enough of working, his family is reared and he's going to flog the lot and retire to a sunny beachside resort somewhere. These are all unlikely but not impossible outcomes and you'd feel a quare Wally to have spent 5 or 10 year's building up your "estate" only to find that it's being sold or willed out from under your feet. I wish you the best of luck regardless and I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but remember the auld man is 60 not 85 and he could have a different plan in mind for the next 10 or 15 year's.

Theres women who would stick around until marriage for half the land alright though. Best saying i have heard is "Marriage is grand but divorce is a hundred grand"
None of this would be happening until the farm is in my name, the farm has been in the family for generations and he has said that hes not going to be the one to sell it, he appreciates that im doing 99% of the work on the farm and he hasnt said anything about passing it on to me but my mother has said that he plans to will it to me so safe enough in that regard
I fully understand what you mean, dont put all your eggs in one basket for that basket to then disappear on ya
A lot can change in a few years

Ford4life

carrollsno1 wrote: »

They always overcame some struggle in life too to get where they are too, usually the leaving certificate and there still in the same spit they were a year ago.

Years ago the success of a farmer was measured by how much he had in the bank
Nowadays its measured by how much they have out of the bank

Donald Trump

Ford4life wrote: »

Stuff like that wont change the price we get for our products, im only 17 and i understand that
Like with the BLM stuff, i know its a good cause but posting a black picture with a hashtag means absolutely **** all
The petition to get predicted grades optional has 33,000 signatures which is literally half of all 6th years and that **** norma foley still isnt gonna listen to us

#BóLifeMatters ?

Bass Reeves

Ford4life wrote: »

Stuff like that wont change the price we get for our products, im only 17 and i understand that
Like with the BLM stuff, i know its a good cause but posting a black picture with a hashtag means absolutely **** all
The petition to get predicted grades optional has 33,000 signatures which is literally half of all 6th years and that **** norma foley still isnt gonna listen to us

And the other half do not want predicted grades as they expect to outperform there predicted grades. All my kids have finished there leaving's they are of the opinion that PG's would have penalised them as they worked hard from mocks to leavings and outperformed there mocks. The two youngest outpreformed there mocks by 50 and 90 points.

Governments job is to govern it should not be based on popularity of the choice,

Ford4life

Donald Trump wrote: »

#BóLifeMatters ?

dont talk to me about vegans , i love arguing with them though, tis some craic. Pages on instagram will put up a picture of a calf or something and i love going through the comments explaining real farming to them

Ford4life

Bass Reeves wrote: »

And the other half do not want predicted grades as they expect to outperform there predicted grades. All my kids have finished there leaving's they are of the opinion that PG's would have penalised them as they worked hard from mocks to leavings and outperformed there mocks. The two youngest outpreformed there mocks by 50 and 90 points.

Governments job is to govern it should not be based on popularity of the choice,

Why not do half and half? Let us who want predicted get predicted and let those that want to do the leaving do it, simple enough really, they made a balls of it last year, everyone outperforms their mocks as you only have 1/2 to 3/4 of the course finished at the time of the mocks, with a bit of common sense they could factor that in easily, there was some people who got predicted that thought they got higher points than they deserved, doesnt make a good media story though a happy parent thanking the government for helping their child does it? Also we have missed months of school and learning at home isnt the same as learning in school

Farm365

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No you are dead right too.

The media, the likes of the farming independent, Agriland, the IFJ etc are all just propaganda pushers, doing exposés about father and son teams breaking the 1,000, 5,000 and 10,000 cow barriers and how it was all gravy sure. Those are very rare cases and I'm sure there is a lot more going in in the background about how they are paying for it all. And you don't hear any follow up articles about the massive debts that they end up in arrears on or how they couldn't keep water grass in the field in the dry weather, or how the banks are coming the repossess stuff, or about the suicides from fellas going in massively over their heads.

Literally pay no heed to all that Agriland propaganda. I know some responsible for writing a lot of it too.

Why is it pure greed when a farmer shows some ambition and tries to expand his business? In every other industry it would be seen as progressive and encouraged but when farmers do it it’s pure greed.

Farm365

Farm365 wrote: »

Why is it pure greed when a farmer shows some ambition and tries to expand his business? In every other industry it would be seen as progressive and encouraged but when farmers do it it’s pure greed.

when it comes at cost to environment (lads flat out lashing slurry all week on saturated land,and this weather coming) and deeply questionable ethical practices surronding calves...its greed





Not saying,all or most are like this,but theres a fair share whom are....money made at expense of ethics is no benefit to anyone imo

Ford4life

Ford4life wrote: »

Years ago the success of a farmer was measured by how much he had in the bank
Nowadays its measured by how much they have out of the bank

Nah, it's still the former.

Farm365

[Deleted User] wrote: »

when it comes at cost to environment (lads flat out lashing slurry all week on saturated land,and this weather coming) and deeply questionable ethical practices surronding calves...its greed





Not saying,all or most are like this,but theres a fair share whom are....money made at expense of ethics is no benefit to anyone imo

Bit of a generalisation it’s the same as any industry where 99% will do it right and the 1% will give the others a bad name.

Skipduke

Think your best option is to go do some ag course/ green cert , find a woman there with a heap of land (and no interest in farming) ... move straight in with her fella. Your calculations are nothing but dreams. You don’t know the true cost of things which is to be expected when you’re 17.