Viability of small dairy farm

Ford4life

wrangler wrote: »

The big tractor wheel are rough on a long draw on the road,hop hop hop
Twin axle is smoother on the road, but I'd imagine they could just stop turning in the field these days

Would spring suspension built into most tankers now help much with the bouncing? Especially with how early fellas are going out with tankers nowadays some probably dont even stop spreading through the ban!

Base price

whelan2 wrote: »

Still not a nice phrase though. Times , I hope have moved on

Obviously they haven't and it's even more disappointing when the young one's that are coming after us are content to use such derogatory terms

whelan2

Base price wrote: »

Obviously they haven't and it's even more disappointing when the young one's that are coming after us are content to use such derogatory terms

My dad was saying when he was in the waiting room in the hospital when my mam was having one of us, a nurse came out to tell another man in there his wife had a baby girl. He got up shouted at the nurse, another bloody heifer, and walked out. Never asked how the wife or child were.....

Hard Knocks

whelan2 wrote: »

My dad was saying when he was in the waiting room in the hospital when my mam was having one of us, a nurse came out to tell another man in there his wife had a baby girl. He got up shouted at the nurse, another bloody heifer, and walked out. Never asked how the wife or child were.....

I really hope that attitude is going

josephsoap

https://thatsfarming.com/latest-news/new-dairy-entrants-monaghan-ireland/?amp=1

More propaganda

Donald Trump

josephsoap wrote: »

https://thatsfarming.com/latest-news/new-dairy-entrants-monaghan-ireland/?amp=1

More propaganda

Jesus Christ. They had 50 sucklers so presumably not a huge block of land.

Brand new 10 unit parlour to pay for and only 52 cows at the minute.

6 of them helping to run the place :eek:


How many wages are they hoping to be drawing out of it in 5-10 years? Probably scope for one person to be comfortable in terms of income from it.

Mooooo

Above article is grand, not much in it but nothing untoward either.
To the OP, you're only 17 your mind will change plenty of time between now and your 20's not mind after that again. Try find something you are interested in to do after the leaving, be that a course or whatever. You say you don't have much interest in money but I'm afraid it's what makes the world go round. I'm not saying you have to be loaded to get by but you have to be able to earn a sustainable living for yourself, and a farm of that size is unlikely to do it in it's own, esp when parents may need to take an income as well. Costs of running a house, paying for and running a car, food etc will add up and 20k wont come close to covering it. Work on dairy farms in spring and summer by all means and if you like cows do the dairy course but unless other opportunities appear close to the home block a full time living is unlikely to come from it so you'll need to look elsewhere in terms of earning a living and if the homeplace falls in well and good, but if not you won't be stuck

minerleague

dont know who or what OP is but should look into becoming politician, 25 pages and still going strong, fair play !

Kevhog1988

minerleague wrote: »

dont know who or what OP is but should look into becoming politician, 25 pages and still going strong, fair play !

Not an ounce of home schooling being done id say lol.... similar to the lads working from home

Hard Knocks

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Not an ounce of home schooling being done id say lol.... similar to the lads working from home

Sure we’re waiting on you to get the internet going :-P

Ford4life

Mooooo wrote: »

Above article is grand, not much in it but nothing untoward either.
To the OP, you're only 17 your mind will change plenty of time between now and your 20's not mind after that again. Try find something you are interested in to do after the leaving, be that a course or whatever. You say you don't have much interest in money but I'm afraid it's what makes the world go round. I'm not saying you have to be loaded to get by but you have to be able to earn a sustainable living for yourself, and a farm of that size is unlikely to do it in it's own, esp when parents may need to take an income as well. Costs of running a house, paying for and running a car, food etc will add up and 20k wont come close to covering it. Work on dairy farms in spring and summer by all means and if you like cows do the dairy course but unless other opportunities appear close to the home block a full time living is unlikely to come from it so you'll need to look elsewhere in terms of earning a living and if the homeplace falls in well and good, but if not you won't be stuck

I dont have absolutely no interest in money, just not absolutely focused on making millions, when you say it would be unsustainable do you mean the 24 cow herd or the eventual expansion to 60 cows hopefully, would still be living at home for the few starting years at 24 cows, parents wouldnt be looking for an income off it, mother will have the pension soon and the father would probably stay working until he cant move anymore so they would be self sufficient, id put money towards them keeping me alright but im a fairly cheap fella to run, bit of food and water and away i go

Ford4life

minerleague wrote: »

dont know who or what OP is but should look into becoming politician, 25 pages and still going strong, fair play !

Are you trying to say i'm full of ****e

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Not an ounce of home schooling being done id say lol.... similar to the lads working from home

Im joining the online classes alright, might not be paying much attention but im joining them anyway, spend most of the classes on here or else on donedeal

Donald Trump

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s a lot of people going to their graves having lived long fulfilled happy lives on monetary income that many would term as unviable. To have lived below the level that some invented as “a living”.
The ability to recognise when you are snug and be appreciative of it is one of the greatest life skills you can get.
Keep your head while all around you lose theres.

I think this a great thread and I think the op is giving very refreshing perspective beyond the normal rhetoric.

While that is very true, a 17 year old doesn't yet know what their level for comfort will be.



You can live day-to-day on relatively little. The best position to be in is to be able to be happy living on a small amount, but to not have it as your only option.

Ford4life

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s a lot of people going to their graves having lived long fulfilled happy lives on monetary income that many would term as unviable. To have lived below the level that some invented as “a living”.
The ability to recognise when you are snug and be appreciative of it is one of the greatest life skills you can get.
Keep your head while all around you lose theres.

I think this a great thread and I think the op is giving very refreshing perspective beyond the normal rhetoric.

2 old dairy farmers that are brothers live near me, they live together have 10 cows, keep ~20 calves (10 bought in each year) one fella does all the housework and the other does all the farm work, carry the milk down to the lorry on a trailer and are happy out, like you said one persons definition of making a living would be different to anothers

Ford4life

Donald Trump wrote: »

While that is very true, a 17 year old doesn't yet know what their level for comfort will be.



You can live day-to-day on relatively little. The best position to be in is to be able to be happy living on a small amount, but to not have it as your only option.

You'd have a rough idea anyway, thats very true with the last part

Mooooo

Ford4life wrote: »

I dont have absolutely no interest in money, just not absolutely focused on making millions, when you say it would be unsustainable do you mean the 24 cow herd or the eventual expansion to 60 cows hopefully, would still be living at home for the few starting years at 24 cows, parents wouldnt be looking for an income off it, mother will have the pension soon and the father would probably stay working until he cant move anymore so they would be self sufficient, id put money towards them keeping me alright but im a fairly cheap fella to run, bit of food and water and away i go

That's all well and good, but you will be looking g for those cows to cover a new build parlour/ housing etc. And while living at home is fine initially please God your parents will live to a fine age which means you'll be buying or building a house yourself, mortgage alone could be 12 grand a year, car paymente and running costs could be another 5, heating esb and phone, food shop, any bit of a social life. And that's not including if a woman and kids are in the scene. Building to 60 cows can be done but providing an income and paying off debt will be difficult for a number of years. Work towards it sure but don't bank on it happening and have a back up plan is all I'm saying.

Bass Reeves

Mooooo wrote: »

That's all well and good, but you will be looking g for those cows to cover a new build parlour/ housing etc. And while living at home is fine initially please God your parents will live to a fine age which means you'll be buying or building a house yourself, mortgage alone could be 12 grand a year, car paymente and running costs could be another 5, heating esb and phone, food shop, any bit of a social life. And that's not including if a woman and kids are in the scene. Building to 60 cows can be done but providing an income and paying off debt will be difficult for a number of years. Work towards it sure but don't bank on it happening and have a back up plan is all I'm saying.

Even if you run it tight and 60 cows leave you 35k in taxable income using just your own tax credits you will end up paying nearly 6k in tax, PRSI and USC. That leaves you with 560/ week in a take home income.

The biggest issue is the downward pressure on milk prices. If you looked at fixed price contracts they're set below three year averages.

Ford4life

Mooooo wrote: »

That's all well and good, but you will be looking g for those cows to cover a new build parlour/ housing etc. And while living at home is fine initially please God your parents will live to a fine age which means you'll be buying or building a house yourself, mortgage alone could be 12 grand a year, car paymente and running costs could be another 5, heating esb and phone, food shop, any bit of a social life. And that's not including if a woman and kids are in the scene. Building to 60 cows can be done but providing an income and paying off debt will be difficult for a number of years. Work towards it sure but don't bank on it happening and have a back up plan is all I'm saying.

All very good points. Could manage a part time job easy enough with 24 cows if absolutely needed to, wouldnt take long to milk 24 cow in a 6 or 8 unit parlour both are sourced easily second hand so that wouldnt be a massive problem, im still another few years off having children and hopefully would be at 60 cows for that then, my version of heating is throw on another jumper until there could be an SO on the scene,
30 acres of good grazing land would be enough for 60 cows wouldnt it also? If growth took a turn for the worse then could possibly zerograze some land across the road anyway

Grueller

Ford4life wrote: »

All very good points. Could manage a part time job easy enough with 24 cows if absolutely needed to, wouldnt take long to milk 24 cow in a 6 or 8 unit parlour both are sourced easily second hand so that wouldnt be a massive problem, im still another few years off having children and hopefully would be at 60 cows for that then, my version of heating is throw on another jumper until there could be an SO on the scene,
30 acres of good grazing land would be enough for 60 cows wouldnt it also? If growth took a turn for the worse then could possibly zerograze some land across the road anyway

At 30 acres you will be buffering heavily til late April and from mid August on. Lots of good silage needed.

Ford4life

Ford4life wrote: »

All very good points. Could manage a part time job easy enough with 24 cows if absolutely needed to, wouldnt take long to milk 24 cow in a 6 or 8 unit parlour both are sourced easily second hand so that wouldnt be a massive problem, im still another few years off having children and hopefully would be at 60 cows for that then, my version of heating is throw on another jumper until there could be an SO on the scene,
30 acres of good grazing land would be enough for 60 cows wouldnt it also? If growth took a turn for the worse then could possibly zerograze some land across the road anyway

Would you really want to be doing 1.5 to 2 hours work minimum everyday before and after work??

Its a long day then,starting at potentially 5.30 am and finishing after 7 pm every evening,......its bad enough feeding the ewes etc here in mornings during the winter,wouldnt fancy doing it 10 months of the year tbh

Ford4life

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Even if you run it tight and 60 cows leave you 35k in taxable income using just your own tax credits you will end up paying nearly 6k in tax, PRSI and USC. That leaves you with 560/ week in a take home income.

The biggest issue is the downward pressure on milk prices. If you looked at fixed price contracts they're set below three year averages.

Local coop is drinagh co-op and they tend to have the best milk price (minimum is 31c usually) could be an issue to get a contract though
560 a week isnt too bad at all but the thing to keep in mind is thats only 9/10 months of the year

Ford4life

Grueller wrote: »

At 30 acres you will be buffering heavily til late April and from mid August on. Lots of good silage needed.

I was thinking that would be the case alright, would be plenty of silage available as would have 50 acres into the pit which at a rough guess would last 5 months roughly which would cover and would have a few hundred bales that would be used to buffer feed the cattle
What would be the general opinion of going for the jerseys? Eat less, very efficient animal converting grass to milk, get out earlier and stay out later as lighter animal, high milk price, if they were crossed with a beef breed would the calves be not too bad?

Ford4life

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you really want to be doing 1.5 to 2 hours work minimum everyday before and after work??

Its a long day then,starting at potentially 5.30 am and finishing after 7 pm every evening,......its bad enough feeding the ewes etc here in mornings during the winter,wouldnt fancy doing it 10 months of the year tbh

I would already be doing it before work during the weekdays most of the time, Wake up at 6 or half 6, head off to work at 8:30 as very close to where i work, during slurry season id be going from 8 in the morning until 9 (not going to say exactly why as it would make it way too obvious where I am from, time constraints basically) be on the farm at home for 2 hours and into bed at 11, dont mind it at all and that would only be for the years where i would be at 24 cows as a support income 3 or 4 years only hopefully

Bass Reeves

Ford4life wrote: »

All very good points. Could manage a part time job easy enough with 24 cows if absolutely needed to, wouldnt take long to milk 24 cow in a 6 or 8 unit parlour both are sourced easily second hand so that wouldnt be a massive problem, im still another few years off having children and hopefully would be at 60 cows for that then, my version of heating is throw on another jumper until there could be an SO on the scene,
30 acres of good grazing land would be enough for 60 cows wouldnt it also? If growth took a turn for the worse then could possibly zerograze some land across the road anyway

Within 5 years you will not be allowed to stock on milking platforms at higher than 3.5 cows/
HA. Dairy farmers in derogations will be regulated by the EPA the same as chicken and pig farms

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Within 5 years you will not be allowed to stock on milking platforms at higher than 3.5 cows/
HA. Dairy farmers in derogations will be regulated by the EPA the same as chicken and pig farms

Will it go to 1unit / Ac?

Bass Reeves

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Will it go to 1unit / Ac?

Effectively the moving of the dairy cow to 100 kgs of N will move total farm to that with a 250 kg nitrates limit. Talking to a lad that is involved in department discussion groups and he says that change will be hard and fast from now to 2025 at least. They want not just to slow down dairy expansion but roll it back.

An interesting one I saw somewhere this week. Department is looking into paying tillage farmers 10 euro/ bale to incorporate straw back into the ground. If that happens straw will go to 30/ bale in dairy area even if it can be got. It may not happen this year but it will happen in 2022 if they are considering it this year.

The department has tried by rising nitrates and changing rules to reduce sticking rates on dairy farms. They have failed as dairy farmers have rented more land and expanded there milking platforms. The only way to slow dairy expansion is to regulate the platforms. That is what will happen

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Effectively the moving if the dairy cow to 100 kgs of N will move total farm to that with a 250 kg nitrates limit. Talking to a lad that is involved in department discussion groups and he says that change will be hard and fast from now to 2025 at least. They want not just to slow down dairy expansion but roll it back.

An interesting one I saw somewhere this week. Department is looking into paying tillage farmers 10 euro/ bale to incorporate straw back into the ground. If that happens straw will go to 30/ bale in dair area even if it can be got. It may not happen this year but it will happen in 2022 if they are considering it this year.

The department has tried by rising nitrates and changing rules to reduce sticking rates on dairy farms. They have failed as dairy farmers have rented more land and expanded on there milking platforms. The only way to slow dairy expansion is to regulate the platforms. That is what will happen

As a lad simply put it to me...if you want to farm effectively like a factory farm,you'll be regulated like a factory


An taisce (i think) put in a big objection to the cheese plant at glanbia plant in belview,despite a gas pipeline already been run to it

Donald Trump

Bass Reeves wrote: »

An interesting one I saw somewhere this week. Department is looking into paying tillage farmers 10 euro/ bale to incorporate straw back into the ground. If that happens straw will go to 30/ bale in dairy area even if it can be got. It may not happen this year but it will happen in 2022 if they are considering it this year.

What does it cost them to have it chopped though? Probably the tenner an acre at least I'd guess but I don't know. I've heard it burns a lot of extra diesel to have it done so lads don't really like doing it.

What I don't understand is how come a lot of tillage fellas aren't laying down some of their ground and leasing it to fellas mad looking for it. You hear reports of 300 an acre being paid. If I was a tillage fella with a 50 acre outfarm, I'd surely be financially better off laying it down and renting it out, maybe with entitlements, and getting a nice tax-free chunk off it. Sure it would be more than the tillage fella would make from it after tax - no? Would give the ground a rest too.

einn32

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Within 5 years you will not be allowed to stock on milking platforms at higher than 3.5 cows/
HA. Dairy farmers in derogations will be regulated by the EPA the same as chicken and pig farms

So dairy farms in derogation will need an EPA licence to operate?