Viability of small dairy farm

carrollsno1

Heres an idea for ye now jack in school for this year and ring up a big dairy farmer and say youll work for nothing up until the summer youll get to see calving and breeding and all the ins and outs of it, yea it would be grand to get paid fof it i suppose but sure look ye said yourself that youre not in it for the money youre only in it because ye love it. By the way have ye ever worked on a dairy farm before?

memorystick

vurstflavor wrote: »

Some of my family members have 1000 acres and another job to pay the bills

1 and a half square miles of land and job! Ah here. Pull the other one. Either miserable and greedy or worse than useless.

minerleague

893bet wrote: »

Jaysus. Great to be young and to believe you know everything.

Ah go handy, no need for that, OP gave rough ( their words ) costings and income , if you agree or disagree say so , but I think its refreshing to see young person eager to go farming.

ruwithme

Jayus,this thread was on page 3 when i was last following yesterday. Ye will have this young man not able to sleep with BIG ideas.

ruwithme

minerleague wrote: »

Ah go handy, no need for that, OP gave rough ( their words ) costings and income , if you agree or disagree say so , but I think its refreshing to see young person eager to go farming.

I'm always saying this albeit to myself,the youth of the country are mad for farming. (& tar)

893bet

minerleague wrote: »

Ah go handy, no need for that, OP gave rough ( their words ) costings and income , if you agree or disagree say so , but I think its refreshing to see young person eager to go farming.

I was talking more specifically about the exact post I quoted. Lad has barely passed puberty yet is writing off everyone in their 30’s hahaha

carrollsno1

893bet wrote: »

I was talking more specifically about the exact post I quoted. Lad has barely passed puberty yet is writing off everyone in their 30’s hahaha

Same lad will be saying if i knew then what i know now in a few years, was saying the same myself too to be fair.

_Brian

There’s also the point that if OP can pull €18-20k out of a handful of cows, maybe he will marry a laying hen or another farmer.

Few near here with handful of cows but they do the kids, schools drops, football etc around milking and so no need for childminders etc. and their wife/husband takes in another good wage.

Donald Trump

Ford4life wrote: »

Opened the biscuit tin 80 acres is nearly enough to keep 80 cows anyway depending on quality of the land, might have only started with 40 acres or something, over 25 years repayment for landwould be 40,000 if paying 1m for the 80 acres, thats quite achievable with 80 cows, parlour would be 100,000 or more depending on amount of clusters and what spec they go for, maybe 120,000 on a cubicle shed for them, plus assuming his son is qualified for tams grant thats 72,000 back on the cubicle shed bundle all the costs together into a 25 year loan we'll say 1148000 to repay then interest of 3% each year would be 35,000, round it up to 1.2m to repay over 25 years would be 48000 in repayments with interest included each year thats quite achievable considering with 24 cows i accounted for 10000 in repayments for first 4 years with ~20k profit, then with 3.3 times the cows you could have roughly 50-60k income after repayments are taken away
Its a big advantage to not have to buy land when starting out
Disclaimer: These figures are very rough estimates

While I admire your optimism, your figures are indeed very rough.


You wouldn't get a 3% rate. But lets assume that you somehow get 3% on a loan of 1m for land and that rate never increases. Then your monthly repayment over 25 years will be just around 4750 per month (just under 57k per year).

If you somehow clear a profit, after all other expenses, of 100k a year, and you pay your tax and pay off your land loan, you would have about 88 Euro a week in your pocket to live on.


That is all hypothetical as no bank would give you that money. But it gives you an idea of the extra profit you'd need to be pulling to pay off that loan for a fella who was expanding. It would be unlikely that it would pay for itself for a long long time without maybe serious inflation

Kevhog1988

minerleague wrote: »

Ah go handy, no need for that, OP gave rough ( their words ) costings and income , if you agree or disagree say so , but I think its refreshing to see young person eager to go farming.

In fairness the lad asked a question and then whenever he got an answer he didnt like he told the poster they were wrong.... After a few pages of this thread it was fairly clear you might as well be advising the wall as the OP. Telling fellas they must be mean or have a massive sfp to be surviving on their system when hes not out of school is a strange way to go on. Theres a difference between someone whos young and eager and someone who thinks they know it all and sadly i think the real world will be a steep learning curve for the OP.

whelan2

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

In fairness the lad asked a question and then whenever he got an answer he didnt like he told the poster they were wrong.... After a few pages of this thread it was fairly clear you might as well be advising the wall as the OP. Telling fellas they must be mean or have a massive sfp to be surviving on their system when hes not out of school is a strange way to go on. Theres a difference between someone whos young and eager and someone who thinks they know it all and sadly i think the real world will be a steep learning curve for the OP.

Even at my age , every day is a learning day

Kevhog1988

whelan2 wrote: »

Even at my age , every day is a learning day

Same, i think the difference is though you have to be actively trying to learn.

Kevhog1988

Jjameson wrote: »

I would suggest the poster is possibly little more seasoned and is working a alter ego and hypothetical situation. But it has proven to be a very interesting thread.

I had thought that too but he has every characteristic of young lads i know so he might not be lol.

carrollsno1

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Same, i think the difference is though you have to be actively trying to learn.

Getting over addictions (fags and sugar) and tryng to find youre path in life the number one rule is to have an open mind and be open to change. This fella has it in his head hes gonna milk 24 cows, prick around all evening rooting and bolloxin and not switching off and if ever he does settle with a woman if he keeps carrying on like that hell end up milking 12 cows because she wont be long about leaving with half of them.

NcdJd

Jjameson wrote: »

I would suggest the poster is possibly little more seasoned and is working a alter ego and hypothetical situation. But it has proven to be a very interesting thread.

Fair play to the op all I had in my head when I was 17 was

1. How fast i complete jobs allocated by my dad so i could join my mates up the road.
2. Girls.
3. Megadeth and ACDC albums.
4. Money for cans.

Even these modest goals i failed miserably alot of the time..

Say my name

Jjameson wrote: »

I would suggest the poster is possibly little more seasoned and is working a alter ego and hypothetical situation. But it has proven to be a very interesting thread.

There's a similar thread on another forum but you'd know that's a genuine thread.
My own guess is the same as yourself but just trying to see what the reaction would be on here by a more seasoned operator who might be also on there too.

It's all fun and games though.

To the Op, if you are genuine and have a passion for something get as much experience as you can off farm in that and don't be afraid to do other things outside of what you know or think you know.
You're already far ahead of me on figures so you'll go far.

Kevhog1988

NcdJd wrote: »

Fair play to the op all I had in my head when I was 17 was

1. How fast i complete jobs allocated by my dad so i could join my mates up the road.
2. Girls.
3. Megadeth and ACDC albums.
4. Money for cans.

Even these modest goals i failed miserably alot of the time..

Mine were:

1. How big a row could i have with my father over stupid things.
2. Girls.
3. Other Girls.
4. Money for cans.

Timmaay

15pages in a day. You can tell most the cows around the country are dry at the min lol.

TheBoyConor

Ford4life wrote: »

You probably are right about the dealerships or the vast majority of them, would you know much about McCarthy's the claas dealer? From what I have heard they're very good to work for
You are definitely right about farmflix and grassmen, not all sunshine and rainbows, drawing grass with not a care in the world, reality is cattle and calves dying, things breaking down etc
As bad are the facilities mat be now in dealerships theyre bound to have improved some bit from when those fellas started working
Im a fairly driven fella, average enough intelligence and sometimes below average with some of the ideas i come up with

If you are, then I'd encourage you to at least consider the idea of doing more with your life than daysul and spanners. It might seem a somewhat interesting prospect now (well you definitely aren't doing it for the money because there simply isn't any in that field), but in 10 or 15 years time it'll literally be the exact same craic - broken down in the rain and it getting dark, and you're in under it, sodden and covered in dirt with black oil running up inside the sleeve of your overalls, getting abused by the owner for why can't you do it quicker and cheaper, if you get paid at all that is. Same craic, except you'll have a bad back and possible a wife and children and to feed and clothe and a mortgage to pay, with only marginally more money than you'll make as an apprentice.
I might as well just be blunt, if a person values themselves, they will aim higher than mechanicing because it is frankly a shíte job that'll kill you mentally and financially, and quite possibly, physically (if not through an accident, the exposure to years of a cocktail of bad chemicals, heavy metals, oils and fumes). Want more than that for yourself lad.

You have to remember that over the next couple of years, probably the majority of your school mates will be leaving and going to university or whatever, now of course some will do useless mickey mouse courses or drop out, but at least they are getting out there and trying to move beyond the parish and see what's out there in terms of careers and learning.

My advice is to just, as hard as it may be, knuckle down at the books and get a good leaving. I know it is hard to do, but trust me, a lifetime busting your back and your knuckles for a tyrant of a dealer, or independently for a tight bollox who is slow to pay for jobs will be a million times harder in the long run.
Consider something in a related field - perhaps study engineering, agri science, something that you are interested in and enthused by that you can get a professional job and career out of.

Messing around with tractors and having a few calves on the side can always easily fit in alongside a proper job in a few years time when you get established in a career. And importantly, you will have the money to fund it as a hobby for enjoyment and lifestyle reasons rather than trying to eek out a meagre living from it, especially when you grow to detest, what will eventually be, every physically painful moment of it.

Dealerships, despite the plumas and manufacturer's glossy propaganda, as as much a bunch of gangsters as anyone. I was cracked for the tractors and machinery at the time. I was driven for it, I did month trials in several dealerships and was highly rated, told i was the best trial they had in one place, offered all three apprenticships. I ended up in a NH dealer in Co. Tipperary as an apprentice. However, between one half the dealership owners being a tight cantankerous bollox, who wouldn't spend a bob on so much as a straight axle stand or a reasonably hygienic canteen for eating lunch, and 90% of my friends having left home to broaden their horizons, I saw sense after 6 months or so. I packed it in moved on in another field. Most of the mechanics there were stressed and miserable. The ones who seemed content were binge drinkers who are stuck in time, still doing the exact same today 16 years later.
Coming near enough to being crushed between a tractor and a wall when the dealers 40 odd year old home-made axle stand gave way under a tractor was a decider for me. I wasn't risking my health or life for this sort of crap life.

So I was in your position. But it took me wasting a year of my life to see it for what it was and would be and see sense.

Grueller

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If you are, then I'd encourage you to at least consider the idea of doing more with your life than daysul and spanners. It might seem a somewhat interesting prospect now (well you definitely aren't doing it for the money because there simply isn't any in that field), but in 10 or 15 years time it'll literally be the exact same craic - broken down in the rain and it getting dark, and you're in under it, sodden and covered in dirt with black oil running up inside the sleeve of your overalls, getting abused by the owner for why can't you do it quicker and cheaper, if you get paid at all that is. Same craic, except you'll have a bad back and possible a wife and children and to feed and clothe and a mortgage to pay, with only marginally more money than you'll make as an apprentice.
I might as well just be blunt, if a person values themselves, they will aim higher than mechanicing because it is frankly a shíte job that'll kill you mentally and financially, and quite possibly, physically (if not through an accident, the exposure to years of a cocktail of bad chemicals, heavy metals, oils and fumes). Want more than that for yourself lad.

You have to remember that over the next couple of years, probably the majority of your school mates will be leaving and going to university or whatever, now of course some will do useless mickey mouse courses or drop out, but at least they are getting out there and trying to move beyond the parish and see what's out there in terms of careers and learning.

My advice is to just, as hard as it may be, knuckle down at the books and get a good leaving. I know it is hard to do, but trust me, a lifetime busting your back and your knuckles for a tyrant of a dealer, or independently for a tight bollox who is slow to pay for jobs will be a million times harder in the long run.
Consider something in a related field - perhaps study engineering, agri science, something that you are interested in and enthused by that you can get a professional job and career out of.

Messing around with tractors and having a few calves on the side can always easily fit in alongside a proper job in a few years time when you get established in a career. And importantly, you will have the money to fund it as a hobby for enjoyment and lifestyle reasons rather than trying to eek out a meagre living from it.

Dealerships, despite the plumas and manufacturer's glossy propaganda, as as much a bunch of gangsters as anyone. I was cracked for the tractors and machinery at the time. I was driven for it, I did month trials in several dealerships and was highly rated, told i was the best trial they had in one place, offered all three apprenticships. I ended up in a NH dealer in Co. Tipperary as an apprentice. However, between one half the dealership owners being a tight cantankerous bollox, who wouldn't spend a bob on so much as a straight axle stand or a reasonably hygienic canteen for eating lunch, and 90% of my friends having left home to broaden their horizons, I saw sense after 6 months or so. I packed it in moved on in another field. Most of the mechanics there were stressed and miserable. The ones who seemed content were binge drinkers who are stuck in time, still doing the exact same today 16 years later.
Coming near enough to being crushed between a tractor and a wall when the dealers 40 odd year old home-made axle stand gave way under a tractor was a decider for me. I wasn't risking my health or life for this sort of crap life.

So I was in your position. But it took me wasting a year of my life to see it for what it was and would be and see sense.

I would argue that year was not wasted, but the most valuable of your life.

TheBoyConor

Well yes of course, in another way it was a very valuable educational year, when you look at it that way. Absolutely.

minerleague

Jjameson wrote: »

I would suggest the poster is possibly little more seasoned and is working a alter ego and hypothetical situation. But it has proven to be a very interesting thread.

If true , to what end? why would anyone post on here with honest opinions if your first thought is " is this real? " Maybe this isn't place for me ( got told to return to the vegan forum for my troubles today :rolleyes:)
So If real : stick to your guns, dont let the b*******s grind you down
If not : got me good

davidk1394

_Brian wrote: »

There’s also the point that if OP can pull €18-20k out of a handful of cows, maybe he will marry a laying hen or another farmer.

Few near here with handful of cows but they do the kids, schools drops, football etc around milking and so no need for childminders etc. and their wife/husband takes in another good wage.

Often saw a laying hen eat her own eggs

Kevhog1988

davidk1394 wrote: »

Often saw a laying hen eat her own eggs

Haha shoes aren't cheap 😂😂😂

davidk1394

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Haha shoes aren't cheap 😂😂😂

Wait until you see the price of bags and I'm not talking about meal bags either

Ford4life

minerleague wrote: »

Ha - close to the truth there:D Did my own accounts for years, no farm, house, or tractor insurance , any building /cattle crushes etc done myself. Use accountant now ( gone lazy), was surprised when he told me people eat into SFP, Lim / salers sucklers (all finished )

Let me guess, no heating and only candles aswell! Tis probably the only way to go now, have to be able to do just about everything you can yourself tbh and leave the contractor or neighbour to dealing with machinery, nice to see that there is some people managing to make a living from sucklers but we are few and far between, not including SFP though id say every suckler farmer is making losses

Ford4life

893bet wrote: »

Jaysus. Great to be young and to believe you know everything.

I have seen it happen to plenty of people, thats why im saying it

Ford4life

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Heres an idea for ye now jack in school for this year and ring up a big dairy farmer and say youll work for nothing up until the summer youll get to see calving and breeding and all the ins and outs of it, yea it would be grand to get paid fof it i suppose but sure look ye said yourself that youre not in it for the money youre only in it because ye love it. By the way have ye ever worked on a dairy farm before?

Not even joking I was literally just thinking about this today while piking in silage to the cattle Good few farmers wouldnt say no to an extra pair of hands around the place at all, you'd nearly get a tenner an hour starting off at that kind of work usually, but experience is more important, im used to calving but usually 1 maybe 2 a week or so would be great to experience the pressure of helping one and seeing a pair of feet coming out of another one, definitely would like to see how they manage the AI breeding, have done bits and pieces but not a whole pile, stepped in for a few milkings for a neighbour here and there but not a whole pile more than that tbh

Ford4life

minerleague wrote: »

Ah go handy, no need for that, OP gave rough ( their words ) costings and income , if you agree or disagree say so , but I think its refreshing to see young person eager to go farming.

Theres not too many of us going into it that arent already in dairy, ya never know i might inspire a few fellas around me that are in beef

Ford4life

Jjameson wrote: »

If you have someone to relieve you of the milking if need be (without undue stress on pensioner parent). Then you might as well be at it as gomming with sucklers for no reward.
Bass did point out correctly some posts back that there is some low profit beef system that are low labour that will combine well with well paid full time work combined leave a medium dairy enterprise in the ha penny place for income.
However I would argue that an established full time medium sized dairy farm is easier when you hit the married with young kids phase.

I would be doing all the milking myself but if for whatever reason i couldnt do it my father would do it, he might be 60 but with a bad ankle hes still fresh enough for his age and no slowing him down either still laying blocks and at concrete work and roofing, jack of all trades kind of fella, on the low input beef systems, we pretty much do that at the moment, just do our own slurry and spread fert on silage ground, draw our own bales and do all the feeding, it would be grand money wise but our SFP is fairly low, i'm not a fan of relying on other fellas to do the work, nice to be able to do it in your own time, help out other farmers with slurry spreading so not really possible to get rid of tanker and theres no way im letting go of my precious ford 7810 love is for farming and making millions isnt my objective, handiest thing about the dairy farm is once the kids get a bit older they can go with you on the farm, obviously you have to be careful and they couldnt be around for slurry and silage etc. dont think too many fellas would be bringing their kids into a workshop