Viability of small dairy farm

jaymla627

Ford4life wrote: »

Opened the biscuit tin 80 acres is nearly enough to keep 80 cows anyway depending on quality of the land, might have only started with 40 acres or something, over 25 years repayment for landwould be 40,000 if paying 1m for the 80 acres, thats quite achievable with 80 cows, parlour would be 100,000 or more depending on amount of clusters and what spec they go for, maybe 120,000 on a cubicle shed for them, plus assuming his son is qualified for tams grant thats 72,000 back on the cubicle shed bundle all the costs together into a 25 year loan we'll say 1148000 to repay then interest of 3% each year would be 35,000, round it up to 1.2m to repay over 25 years would be 48000 in repayments with interest included each year thats quite achievable considering with 24 cows i accounted for 10000 in repayments for first 4 years with ~20k profit, then with 3.3 times the cows you could have roughly 50-60k income after repayments are taken away
Its a big advantage to not have to buy land when starting out
Disclaimer: These figures are very rough estimates[/quote

Is the above example in a company, if not any repayments on land after interest is taken off is taken of your income after tax, your reminding of the two young lads on ear to the ground waffling on about the 1000 euro a cow they would be making as new entrants to milk, you’ll be in for some kick in the hole if you do get into cows of the actual financials of it

Ford4life

ruwithme wrote: »

Jayus,this thread was on page 3 when i was last following yesterday. Ye will have this young man not able to sleep with BIG ideas.

I check it every few hours and i'd be an hour reading through it when I get the chance to read them, i have no need for sleep, too busy planning

Ford4life

ruwithme wrote: »

I'm always saying this albeit to myself,the youth of the country are mad for farming. (& tar)

You don't see many that didn't grow up on a farm heading into it, i suppose they dont fancy the hours
I saw one thing yesterday "farming is like every other job, except you clock in at age 5 and never clock out" tis true, as soon as we could walk we'd have the pike in our hands

Ford4life

893bet wrote: »

I was talking more specifically about the exact post I quoted. Lad has barely passed puberty yet is writing off everyone in their 30’s hahaha

Not everyone, just the vast majority Mainly happens people in towns you dont see it happening to many farmers as they dont have time to stop and think

893bet

Ford4life wrote: »

I have seen it happen to plenty of people, thats why im saying it

At 17.......Ha now it’s clear you are half trolling.

893bet

What age is your old lad out of interest?

Ford4life

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Same lad will be saying if i knew then what i know now in a few years, was saying the same myself too to be fair.

Almost definitely They give out about us young fellas but they were the same at out age aswell, tis like when your 5-10 years old and you consider anyone in their 20s ancient, now im not far off my 18th, the time doesnt be long going at all

Ford4life

_Brian wrote: »

There’s also the point that if OP can pull €18-20k out of a handful of cows, maybe he will marry a laying hen or another farmer.

Few near here with handful of cows but they do the kids, schools drops, football etc around milking and so no need for childminders etc. and their wife/husband takes in another good wage.

Anyone know any 17/18 year old women with their father dairy farming and no brothers or sisters?

Ford4life

Donald Trump wrote: »

While I admire your optimism, your figures are indeed very rough.


You wouldn't get a 3% rate. But lets assume that you somehow get 3% on a loan of 1m for land and that rate never increases. Then your monthly repayment over 25 years will be just around 4750 per month (just under 57k per year).

If you somehow clear a profit, after all other expenses, of 100k a year, and you pay your tax and pay off your land loan, you would have about 88 Euro a week in your pocket to live on.


That is all hypothetical as no bank would give you that money. But it gives you an idea of the extra profit you'd need to be pulling to pay off that loan for a fella who was expanding. It would be unlikely that it would pay for itself for a long long time without maybe serious inflation

That waas just a very rough calculation for another fella to see roughly how much he'd be paying roughly, i did my own rough costings on page 2 of this thread i think, we have no land to buy for the moment anyway, maybe down the line

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

In fairness the lad asked a question and then whenever he got an answer he didnt like he told the poster they were wrong.... After a few pages of this thread it was fairly clear you might as well be advising the wall as the OP. Telling fellas they must be mean or have a massive sfp to be surviving on their system when hes not out of school is a strange way to go on. Theres a difference between someone whos young and eager and someone who thinks they know it all and sadly i think the real world will be a steep learning curve for the OP.

I was poking fun at him lmao and he understood the joke, I am listening to what fellas say but i mean if it wont work it wont work, thats why i try to give an explanation as to why it wouldnt work

Ford4life

whelan2 wrote: »

Even at my age , every day is a learning day

I'd be learning stuff every day too, i am listening to what fellas think even if it seems im not

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

Same, i think the difference is though you have to be actively trying to learn.

Im listening alright, might not seem like it but i am listening

tanko

Ford4life wrote: »

Opened the biscuit tin 80 acres is nearly enough to keep 80 cows anyway depending on quality of the land, might have only started with 40 acres or something, over 25 years repayment for landwould be 40,000 if paying 1m for the 80 acres, thats quite achievable with 80 cows, parlour would be 100,000 or more depending on amount of clusters and what spec they go for, maybe 120,000 on a cubicle shed for them, plus assuming his son is qualified for tams grant thats 72,000 back on the cubicle shed bundle all the costs together into a 25 year loan we'll say 1148000 to repay then interest of 3% each year would be 35,000, round it up to 1.2m to repay over 25 years would be 48000 in repayments with interest included each year thats quite achievable considering with 24 cows i accounted for 10000 in repayments for first 4 years with ~20k profit, then with 3.3 times the cows you could have roughly 50-60k income after repayments are taken away
Its a big advantage to not have to buy land when starting out
Disclaimer: These figures are very rough estimates

This is brilliant.
Have you considered a job with Teagasc??

Ford4life

Jjameson wrote: »

I would suggest the poster is possibly little more seasoned and is working a alter ego and hypothetical situation. But it has proven to be a very interesting thread.

Getting a lot of valuable opinions out of it and is a bit more positive than negative which isnt really what i expected to be honest, your half right about the first part wont tell you which part though

Ford4life

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

I had thought that too but he has every characteristic of young lads i know so he might not be lol.

Or am I a very good actor?

K.G.

Check out "creagh farm"on youtube.nice antidote to headline i saw somewhere today where a fella said he was going to jave a 1000 cows by the time he s forty.oh dear god.

tanko

tanko wrote: »

This is brilliant.
Have you considered a job with Teagasc??

personally feel the OP has a future in quantity surveying

Concrete 600,blocks 500,labour 300,...sure lets make it e2000 on rough figure :pac:

tanko

Deleted User wrote: »

personally feel the OP has a future in quantity surveying

Concrete 600,blocks 500,labour 300,...sure lets make it e2000 on rough figure :pac:

€20,000 more like:pac:

Ford4life

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Getting over addictions (fags and sugar) and tryng to find youre path in life the number one rule is to have an open mind and be open to change. This fella has it in his head hes gonna milk 24 cows, prick around all evening rooting and bolloxin and not switching off and if ever he does settle with a woman if he keeps carrying on like that hell end up milking 12 cows because she wont be long about leaving with half of them.

Clearly someone hasnt been listening, basically, start off with 24 cows, second hand milk parlour and new bulk tank, costing roughly 40,000 then once thats paid off within 4 years as i accounted for in my rough costings, save towards a new 60 cubicle shed (probably cost in the region of 120,000) and milking parlour (region of 100,000), get the TAMS grant hopefully so should save about 70,000 on the shed bringing the cost down to around 150,000 so should be able to pay off within 10 years easily, i can switch off im not a complete asshole, i prefer to be busy but will obviously slow down in the evenings anyway
Never smoked in my life and dont plan to start either i have more sense than that, not addicted to sugar either

Ford4life

NcdJd wrote: »

Fair play to the op all I had in my head when I was 17 was

1. How fast i complete jobs allocated by my dad so i could join my mates up the road.
2. Girls.
3. Megadeth and ACDC albums.
4. Money for cans.

Even these modest goals i failed miserably alot of the time..

1,2 and 4 arent possible with these restrictions Cant beat a bit of AC/DC either, music nowadays is fairly ****e in comparison in my opinion

Ford4life

Timmaay wrote: »

15pages in a day. You can tell most the cows around the country are dry at the min lol.

Lad im flat out replying Can barely keep up, as soon as i do theres a whole new page, which isnt a bad thing at all, wont be long now until things will be quiet as calving will be starting soon for some fellas

Ford4life

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If you are, then I'd encourage you to at least consider the idea of doing more with your life than daysul and spanners. It might seem a somewhat interesting prospect now (well you definitely aren't doing it for the money because there simply isn't any in that field), but in 10 or 15 years time it'll literally be the exact same craic - broken down in the rain and it getting dark, and you're in under it, sodden and covered in dirt with black oil running up inside the sleeve of your overalls, getting abused by the owner for why can't you do it quicker and cheaper, if you get paid at all that is. Same craic, except you'll have a bad back and possible a wife and children and to feed and clothe and a mortgage to pay, with only marginally more money than you'll make as an apprentice.
I might as well just be blunt, if a person values themselves, they will aim higher than mechanicing because it is frankly a shíte job that'll kill you mentally and financially, and quite possibly, physically (if not through an accident, the exposure to years of a cocktail of bad chemicals, heavy metals, oils and fumes). Want more than that for yourself lad.

You have to remember that over the next couple of years, probably the majority of your school mates will be leaving and going to university or whatever, now of course some will do useless mickey mouse courses or drop out, but at least they are getting out there and trying to move beyond the parish and see what's out there in terms of careers and learning.

My advice is to just, as hard as it may be, knuckle down at the books and get a good leaving. I know it is hard to do, but trust me, a lifetime busting your back and your knuckles for a tyrant of a dealer, or independently for a tight bollox who is slow to pay for jobs will be a million times harder in the long run.
Consider something in a related field - perhaps study engineering, agri science, something that you are interested in and enthused by that you can get a professional job and career out of.

Messing around with tractors and having a few calves on the side can always easily fit in alongside a proper job in a few years time when you get established in a career. And importantly, you will have the money to fund it as a hobby for enjoyment and lifestyle reasons rather than trying to eek out a meagre living from it, especially when you grow to detest, what will eventually be, every physically painful moment of it.

Dealerships, despite the plumas and manufacturer's glossy propaganda, as as much a bunch of gangsters as anyone. I was cracked for the tractors and machinery at the time. I was driven for it, I did month trials in several dealerships and was highly rated, told i was the best trial they had in one place, offered all three apprenticships. I ended up in a NH dealer in Co. Tipperary as an apprentice. However, between one half the dealership owners being a tight cantankerous bollox, who wouldn't spend a bob on so much as a straight axle stand or a reasonably hygienic canteen for eating lunch, and 90% of my friends having left home to broaden their horizons, I saw sense after 6 months or so. I packed it in moved on in another field. Most of the mechanics there were stressed and miserable. The ones who seemed content were binge drinkers who are stuck in time, still doing the exact same today 16 years later.
Coming near enough to being crushed between a tractor and a wall when the dealers 40 odd year old home-made axle stand gave way under a tractor was a decider for me. I wasn't risking my health or life for this sort of crap life.

So I was in your position. But it took me wasting a year of my life to see it for what it was and would be and see sense.

I'd hope to be out of it by 25 and getting into the dairy, be a very handy job for working on own tractors if anything went wrong, dealerships are a definite no so, im not doing too bad at ag science (H2) total points may be an issue, what would be your opinion on working in the council workshops do you know? the local one (15 mins away) is nearly always stuck for mechanics for repairs

Pretty much all my friends are dairy or beef farmers and all the dairy ones are going doing the dairy course, then straight home to work on the farm, friends in beef dont really have a plan for after school i dont think
Will definitely take your opinion into account, will try harder at the leaving and maybe get to 400-450 points at a stretch, thats enough for an ag science course i think

Ford4life

minerleague wrote: »

If true , to what end? why would anyone post on here with honest opinions if your first thought is " is this real? " Maybe this isn't place for me ( got told to return to the vegan forum for my troubles today :rolleyes:)
So If real : stick to your guns, dont let the b*******s grind you down
If not : got me good

Maybe you'll never know.... ill might reply to this post again in 10 years and let you know how im getting on

Grueller

Ford4life wrote: »

I'd hope to be out of it by 25 and getting into the dairy, be a very handy job for working on own tractors if anything went wrong, dealerships are a definite no so, im not doing too bad at ag science (H2) total points may be an issue, what would be your opinion on working in the council workshops do you know? the local one (15 mins away) is nearly always stuck for mechanics for repairs

Pretty much all my friends are dairy or beef farmers and all the dairy ones are going doing the dairy course, then straight home to work on the farm, friends in beef dont really have a plan for after school i dont think
Will definitely take your opinion into account, will try harder at the leaving and maybe get to 400-450 points at a stretch, thats enough for an ag science course i think

At 450 points consider woodwork or metalwork teaching in UL. Hours to suit dairy or beef and reasonably well paid. Nice subjects too as youngsters like them so no trouble.

TheBoyConor

OP, I have made my view on the mechanicing "career" known, so I will say no more about that. However, I still think diving into the dairy business at your first start at life is really cutting yourself short. You are only 17. From the way you talk here, you do seem driven and smart. I think you have much more potential than to be messing around with machinery or just spend your life dairy farming. Not that there is anything wrong with farming per se, but to just go straight into it without exploring more worthwhile and stable careers, you would be really hamstringing yourself. Get a proper qualification in some professional field related to agriculture or engineering if they are the fields that interest you.

If you want a more realistic window into the future, I'd recommend watching the film Pilgrim Hill. It depicts a what can be a rather grim and isolating reality it can be for someone like the character joe to reach middle early age having never broadened their horizons at the outset, and spend their life thus far in the thrall of the land and cows, haunted by the crushing regret at how things could have been different if life had taken a different path.

I think this line from the film about sums it up.....

........."if I were to die and meet the person i could have been, instead of the person I am now."....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkA3_yO1kJ4

Ford4life

jaymla627 wrote: »

Ford4life wrote: »

Opened the biscuit tin 80 acres is nearly enough to keep 80 cows anyway depending on quality of the land, might have only started with 40 acres or something, over 25 years repayment for landwould be 40,000 if paying 1m for the 80 acres, thats quite achievable with 80 cows, parlour would be 100,000 or more depending on amount of clusters and what spec they go for, maybe 120,000 on a cubicle shed for them, plus assuming his son is qualified for tams grant thats 72,000 back on the cubicle shed bundle all the costs together into a 25 year loan we'll say 1148000 to repay then interest of 3% each year would be 35,000, round it up to 1.2m to repay over 25 years would be 48000 in repayments with interest included each year thats quite achievable considering with 24 cows i accounted for 10000 in repayments for first 4 years with ~20k profit, then with 3.3 times the cows you could have roughly 50-60k income after repayments are taken away
Its a big advantage to not have to buy land when starting out
Disclaimer: These figures are very rough estimates[/quote

Is the above example in a company, if not any repayments on land after interest is taken off is taken of your income after tax, your reminding of the two young lads on ear to the ground waffling on about the 1000 euro a cow they would be making as new entrants to milk, you’ll be in for some kick in the hole if you do get into cows of the actual financials of it

This was just a very rough calculation, back of a fag box kind of thing and not for myself, one other poster mentioned a lad buying 80acres, new milking parlour and 80 cows just a very quick guestimation at how much it would cost him each year, i realise i did the interest completely wrong but hey ho it was rough. I did a quick income and costing calculation on page 1 or 2 of this thread i think it was (wasnt as rough as this one)

Ford4life

893bet wrote: »

What age is your old lad out of interest?

ill be 18 in a few days
Father is 59, he'll be 60 next may
Not trolling intentionally

Ford4life

tanko wrote: »

This is brilliant.
Have you considered a job with Teagasc??

this was not a costing for myself just a very rough guestimation at another fellas costing, I did a half proper one for myself on page 1 or 2, i realise i did the interest completely wrong now in that one, teagasc wouldnt be the worst job either

Ford4life

K.G. wrote: »

Check out "creagh farm"on youtube.nice antidote to headline i saw somewhere today where a fella said he was going to jave a 1000 cows by the time he s forty.oh dear god.

On agriland, tis pure greed, think of the stress managing all that :eek:
Creagh farm is a good youtube channel in fairness, shows you dont have to be at a massive scale

Timmaay

Grueller wrote: »

At 450 points consider woodwork or metalwork teaching in UL. Hours to suit dairy or beef and reasonably well paid. Nice subjects too as youngsters like them so no trouble.

Just like you shouldn't commit yourself to dairying at 17yrs old, I'd definitely suggest going out and doing an engineering degree and get afew yrs of real world experience before coming back like in your late 20s to do a hdip and go teaching, with 450points you should have plenty aptitude to get an engineering degree.