Woman assaulted at knifepoint in Dublin *MOD WARNING ADDED TO OP*

Wilhelm III

Wilhelm III wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting that imagination is something that has no value?

It most certainly does!
But not when it comes to evidence & the law.

fantaiscool

bubblypop wrote: »

There is nothing to challenge, because his opinion is completely based on something he made up in his imagination.

Agreed. There is indeed nothing to challenge. I'm flabbergasted at how he can logically come to that conclusion.

beakerjoe

bubblypop wrote: »

There is nothing to challenge, because his opinion is completely based on something he made up in his imagination.

He has his perceptions on the situation, as do we all. His conclusions are his speculating and he is entitled to speculate. His own life and experiences are different to mine and its where his theory is based. I believe while he is wrong to assume race is a factor. But people are gonna disagree.


I dont agree with his belief that race was a factor.

But he is entitled to it. Ive made my case, we may not agree, but we do it respectfully.

fantaiscool

beakerjoe wrote: »

He has his perceptions on the situation, as do we all. His conclusions are his speculating and he is entitled to speculate. His own life and experiences are different to mine and its where his theory is based. I believe while he is wrong to assume race is a factor. But people are gonna disagree.


I dont agree with his belief that race was a factor.

But he is entitled to it. Ive made my case, we may not agree, but we do it respectfully.

He's basically saying that any attack by black teens on white people is a racist attack. How can you respect that?

Wilhelm III

fantaiscool wrote: »

He's basically saying that any attack by black teens on white people is a racist attack. How can you respect that?

You're twisting his (and my) words - he respects my right to have an opinion, he doesn't agree with what that opinion.

beakerjoe

fantaiscool wrote: »

He's basically saying that any attack by black teens on white people is a racist attack. How can you respect that?

I think he's wrong. I dont know these teens personally and neither does anyone here.

I dont agree with his sweeping generalization but I respect people opinions even if they dont agree.

fantaiscool

beakerjoe wrote: »

I think he's wrong. I dont know these teens personally and neither does anyone here.

I dont agree with his sweeping generalization but I respect people opinions even if they dont agree.

You can respect his right to have an opinion. I understand that.

That is quite different than respecting the actual opinion.

There are some quite abhorrent opinions that people have that im sure you wouldnt respect right?

Gatling

fantaiscool wrote: »

He's basically saying that any attack by black teens on white people is a racist attack.

But it if was reversed you would be claiming it's a race attack bases odd white teens attacking someone who is black .

fantaiscool

Gatling wrote: »

But it if was reversed you would be claiming it's a race attack bases odd white teens attacking someone who is black .

Incorrect. I'm arguing against that in every post I have made. That is the fundamental tenet of my argument.

Wilhelm III

fantaiscool wrote: »

You can respect his right to have an opinion. I understand that.

That is quite different than respecting the actual opinion.

There are some quite abhorrent opinions that people have that im sure you wouldnt respect right?

Who is respecting 'the actual' opinion? The gentleman said, we 'may not agree, but we do it respectfully', as in - a respectful manner, speaking in a respectful way. We respectfully disagree - we acknowledge each others right to hold different views, without seeking to belittle or demean each other for holding differing points of view.

He never said he respected my opinion.

fantaiscool

Wilhelm III wrote: »

Who is respecting my opinion? The gentleman said, we 'may not agree, but we do it respectfully', as in - a respectful manner, speaking in a respectful way. We respectfully disagree - we acknowledge each others right to hold different views, without seeking to belittle or demean each other for holding differing points of view.

He never said he respected my opinion.

Well I guess I'm asking him if he respects your opinion on this particular topic then.

Wilhelm III

fantaiscool wrote: »

Well I guess I'm asking him if he respects your opinion on this particular topic then.

He never once said he did! You're twisting words here, I don't expect him to respect my opinion - I appreciate however the respectful manner in which he is challenging it.

WrenBoy

fantaiscool wrote: »

Well I guess I'm asking him if he respects your opinion on this particular topic then.

Who cares !?

Bobblehats

fantaiscool wrote: »

He's basically saying that any attack by black teens on white people is a racist attack. How can you respect that?

Have you considered the recent climate or is your memory short.

What was their aim a cigarette... anything? Or the savage intimidation of a notably white; native woman.

Gatling

fantaiscool wrote: »

Incorrect. .

I believe otherwise, pretty common m/o for new posters lately for some reason,.

By all accounts and reports these gangs don't attack random black people ,but happily attack other teens or individuals who happen to be white ,that's suggests race is part of the motives with these gangs

fantaiscool

Wilhelm III wrote: »

He never once said he did! You're twisting words here, I don't expect him to respect my opinion - I appreciate however the respectful manner in which he is challenging it.

I asked him how he could respect your opinion on it? As you say, he never said he did. Fair enough. I'm still asking that question. Maybe I'm missing something here?

nullzero

If there were gangs of white Irish kids in Balbriggan who only ever attacked black people there would be uproar about the racially motivated hate crimes being carried out.

Whilst racism may not be the motivation behind the actions of these youths from African backgrounds, it is notable that they are attacking white people in the main.

In both examples above, it is not possible to say for certain that racism is the cause of what's happening, but there is undoubtedly a willingness to see racism as a motivation in crimes that are committed against black people by white people as opposed to the other way around.

The only bellwether we have for the attitudes of black youth in Ireland these days would be the barricading of the shop George Nkencho assaulted the manager of a few weeks ago, where black protestors shouted overtly racist threats of violence to those inside the shop.

Can we take that as an indicator of the attitudes of everyone in this country with Black skin? Of course not, but it did happen and the undertones are not in one bit pleasant.

Kivaro

He's basically saying that any attack by black teens on white people is a racist attack.

Nobody has ever said that.
When someone posts something like that, then you just know that all hope is lost to have a rational discussion with that person.

The circumstances with this particular incident, based on the victim's interview, was that she was not robbed and they did not ask her for a cigarette or any other of the usual reasons that thugs use as a pretense to attack someone. So the unprovoked attack and subsequent slashing of this woman must have been for a different reason.

RandRuns

Kivaro wrote: »

Nobody has ever said that.
When someone posts something like that, then you just know that all hope is lost to have a rational discussion with that person.

The circumstances with this particular incident, based on the victim's interview, was that she was not robbed and they did not ask her for a cigarette or any other of the usual reasons that thugs use as a pretense to attack someone. So the unprovoked attack and subsequent slashing of this woman must have been for a different reason.

There is a loud and persistent cohort of posters on Boards who see racisim everywhere and in everything.

Unless it is possible racism by black people against white people. Then they are utterly blind to it, and will call out anyone pointing it out.

beakerjoe

Bobblehats wrote: »

Have you considered the recent climate or is your memory short.

What was their aim a cigarette... anything? Or the savage intimidation of a notably white; native woman.

Scummers are scummers though, white black, scummer youths it shouldn't matter.

Whoever attacked her are scum.

Some do it to gain phones, money, jewelry.

Others do it out of boredom, making themselves feel better by bullying others.

The fact that she is white and they are black shouldnt be an issue. Fcat is it happened and its wrong.

The reverse of this so the recent shooting. Garda shot someone who was acting dangerously with a weapon who had alleged mental health issues. The investigation shouldnt be a racial one unless there is evidence to support that the lads race came into it.

Its shouldnt be an us vs them mentality. We are all part of the same community. No good person wants to see any one attacked? No one wants to see a mentally ill man shot unless there was good cause.

Big Gerry

If the Gardas don't clamp down on these gangs I can see vigilantes popping up again like what happened in the 80s.

beakerjoe

Kivaro wrote: »

Nobody has ever said that.
When someone posts something like that, then you just know that all hope is lost to have a rational discussion with that person.

The circumstances with this particular incident, based on the victim's interview, was that she was not robbed and they did not ask her for a cigarette or any other of the usual reasons that thugs use as a pretense to attack someone. So the unprovoked attack and subsequent slashing of this woman must have been for a different reason.

I personally think that it was just scummers being scummers. They have always been around, white, black. Scum is scum.

That said, it is possible that these lads did attack her for being white. I dont know. Only they know for sure. Its a fair assumption. Just not one I believe to be likely.

beakerjoe

Big Gerry wrote: »

If the Gardas don't clamp down on these gangs I can see vigilantes popping up again like what happened in the 80s.

100 percent. It needs to be policed better, though the Guards never deal with youth scum.

They do the best they can within the law.

It doesnt matter what crime is committed, youth in Ireland have very little accountability. The scum gets worse and these issues will get worse. Add racial tensions in and it could explode sooner rather than later.

beakerjoe

RandRuns wrote: »

There is a loud and persistent cohort of posters on Boards who see racisim everywhere and in everything.

Unless it is possible racism by black people against white people. Then they are utterly blind to it, and will call out anyone pointing it out.

The anything bad that happens is "racist" schtick is not right. Bad things happen, race isnt the cause of all peoples problems, but some do like to take the easy route and blame incidents on race.

fantaiscool

Gatling wrote: »

I believe otherwise, pretty common m/o for new posters lately for some reason,.

By all accounts and reports these gangs don't attack random black people ,but happily attack other teens or individuals who happen to be white ,that's suggests race is part of the motives with these gangs

Well I think you should read a few previous posts I've made. For example I disagreed with the racial narrative BLM were pushing over the Nkencho shooting. At the moment it looks to me like the guards had legitimate justification for it. So I'm pretty consistent.

Kivaro

beakerjoe wrote: »

I personally think that it was just scummers being scummers. They have always been around, white, black. Scum is scum.

That said, it is possible that these lads did attack her for being white. I dont know. Only they know for sure. Its a fair assumption. Just not one I believe to be likely.

And that is a very reasonable response to the incident Beakerjoe.
Unless the thugs come out and actually admit it, then we will never know.
In your post, you allowed the possibility of race being a factor behind the attack, even though you do believe it unlikely. But at least you considered it.
Others on here will not even allow that notion to be considered. They have fully determined that race had nothing to do with it. However, it would be the antithesis of their views had the victim and perpetrators' race were reversed. This is why the hypocritical nature of their stance should always be pointed out.

Bobblehats

fantaiscool wrote: »

Well I think you should read a few previous posts I've made. For example I disagreed with the racial narrative BLM were pushing over the Nkencho shooting. At the moment it looks to me like the guards had legitimate justification for it. So I'm pretty consistent.

Well if you know thee narrative, and you acknowledged the reactions off the back of that incident than you'll recognise the consistency

beakerjoe

Kivaro wrote: »

And that is a very reasonable response to the incident Beakerjoe.
Unless the thugs come out and actually admit it, then we will never know.
In your post, you allowed the possibility of race being a factor behind the attack, even though you do believe it unlikely. But at least you considered it.
Others on here will not even allow that notion to be considered. They have fully determined that race had nothing to do with it. However, it would be the antithesis of their views had the victim and perpetrators' race were reversed. This is why the hypocritical nature of their stance should always be pointed out.

Im basing my own thoughts on what Ive seen.

Ive never personally seen a gang of whites attack a black man for being black in Dublin.

Can it happen? of course it can. I just havent seen it.

Have I seen black youths attack people? Yes. Ive seen them attack randomers, black and right. I have also seen them attack themselves.

I have seen white youths attack randomers, other gangs, black gangs.

All I know is that scum is scum and that no matter what, they attack because they are scummy cnuts with no boundaries, accountability or punishment.

Their race isnt the important factor here, their crimes are.

biko

beakerjoe wrote: »

Their race isnt the important factor here, their crimes are.

If race is a factor in the attack then it's a hate crime.

beakerjoe

biko wrote: »

If race is a factor in the attack then it's a hate crime.

But we cant determine that. Without evidnece, its just speculation.

So its not a factor unless evidence is found supporting that theory.