16 family members given vaccine

celt262

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's at least one nursing home very close by whose front line staff would have gratefully received it. All it would have taken is a little forethought and planning to set up a standby contact list, and then indeed if there could not be sufficient within the requisite time, bring in the family members to absorb the vaccine. They should have set up WhatsApp groups.

I nominate yourself to get involved and make sure this all runs smoothly.

hynesie08

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes there will be. Those vaccinated now will receive second doses, deferring vaccination of those in higher priority categories.

This is exactly why we kept a small buffer of vaccines, that won't happen......

steddyeddy

hynesie08 wrote: »

This is exactly why we kept a small buffer of vaccines, that won't happen......

We're becoming a laughing stock as more of these stories make the international news and you're deflecting from construction workers getting the vaccine ahead of frontline medical workers.

We have zero extra vaccines. As of yet we don't have enough vaccines.

hynesie08

steddyeddy wrote: »

We're becoming a laughing stock as more of these stories make the international news and you're deflecting from construction workers getting the vaccine ahead of frontline medical workers.

We have zero extra vaccines. As of yet we don't have enough vaccines.

Germany and the UK are throwing out doses, some parts of the USA haven't even given out a third of their available vaccines, but we're a laughing stock because *checks notes* we vaccinated extra people.........

Yeah, we have extra vaccines, it's how we were able to push the finish line for nursing homes forward a week.

steddyeddy

hynesie08 wrote: »

Germany and the UK are throwing out doses, some parts of the USA haven't even given out a third of their available vaccines, but we're a laughing stock because *checks notes* we vaccinated extra people.........

Yeah, we have extra vaccines, it's how we were able to push the finish line for nursing homes forward a week.

Should construction workers have been vaccinated before frontline medical?

astrofool

steddyeddy wrote: »

We're becoming a laughing stock as more of these stories make the international news and you're deflecting from construction workers getting the vaccine ahead of frontline medical workers.

We have zero extra vaccines. As of yet we don't have enough vaccines.

Other countries have been throwing away extra vaccines and missing vaccination targets, we're meeting and surpassing all of our targets so far.

I would counter that it is the likes of yourself that has become a laughing stock.

Of course, things can and will go wrong, as I stated on the first page of this thread, the master should not have permitted the vaccine to be given to 2 members of his own family as it espouses nepotism, however, what they did was correct in trying to use up all of the vaccine and not let any go to waste, even getting 104 workers at short notice deserves plaudits, not criticism, and the danger is that now the excess will be binned, and the idiots cheering this on will wonder why they aren't getting vaccinated sooner, and the answer is simple, because they are stupid and don't have more than one brain cell to rub together.

hynesie08

steddyeddy wrote: »

Should construction workers have been vaccinated before frontline medical?

You're going to argue in circles again?

Sarn

hynesie08 wrote: »

No, there was enough for a 6th dose, but they were only allowed give 5.

There is officially 6 doses. The volume in the vial is 2.25 ml and a dose is 0.3 ml (with a little spare).

hynesie08

Sarn wrote: »

There is officially 6 doses. The volume in the vial is 2.25 ml and a dose is 0.3 ml (with a little spare).

Pfizer only apllied for permission for 5 doses though, so that was the number we had to work off.

Sarn

hynesie08 wrote: »

Pfizer only apllied for permission for 5 doses though, so that was the number we had to work off.

There was approval for 5 but that has since been updated. It has been officially updated on the EMA website and product information that there is 6.

hynesie08

Sarn wrote: »

There was approval for 5 but that has since been updated. It has been officially updated on the EMA website and product information that there is 6.

I know, but I believe this situation happened on the day it was updated, so it was a unique one off situation.

astrofool

Sarn wrote: »

There was approval for 5 but that has since been updated. It has been officially updated on the EMA website and product information that there is 6.

I think it was updated to allow 6 to be drawn from the same vial, however they are still supplied as a 5 dose vial (so if 100 vaccines are needed, 20 would be supplied, rather than 17), which means that, if the vials are drawn precisely, there can be 18-25 extra vaccines available, but this number is not guaranteed (hence the practice of giving to other groups who are available, rather than the vaccine going to waste, and not booking in 18-25 more people as there may be no extra vaccine to use).

plodder

Christy42 wrote: »

Depends on what the delivery drivers and unloader would be doing otherwise. If everywhere was doing this are you slowing down how quickly it is getting out of the cold freezer center since you are tripling (or more) the deliveries to deliver the same stuff.

How much effort is in taking this stuff out, getting it on a truck and delivered safely? Everything has a cost. The benefits may outweigh it but I would prefer to know what it is first before getting overly fretted on 5-7 vaccines.

Given that there is up to 7 doses in each vial, there could be up to that amount of wastage at the end of any day. So, there is certainly no point getting worked up over those numbers. But, they had around 120 extra doses. They did a great job in finding 100 people who apparently were authorised to receive it, but that's not a sustainable way to run a vaccination campaign, especially at this stage where supplies are very limited. The vaccines can be kept in a fridge for 5 days. There's no need for this mad rushing around dragging people off the streets to use it up.

steddyeddy

hynesie08 wrote: »

I know, but I believe this situation happened on the day it was updated, so it was a unique one off situation.

They only had a day to calculate 20% extra?

astrofool

plodder wrote: »

Given that there is up to 7 doses in each vial, there could be up to that amount of wastage at the end of any day. So, there is certainly no point getting worked up over those numbers. But, they had around 120 extra doses. They did a great job in finding 100 people who apparently were authorised to receive it, but that's not a sustainable way to run a vaccination campaign, especially at this stage where supplies are very limited. The vaccines can be kept in a fridge for 5 days. There's no need for this mad rushing around dragging people off the streets to use it up.

Once made up, the vaccine has to be used within 6 hours, it can be stored pre-made up in a fridge for a few days. Once made up, it cannot be subjected to external shocks that may cause the solution to break down, so it cannot be transported from one location to another.

steddyeddy

Yes the vaccine components are comprised of mRNA, which is one of the most unstable biomolecules you can work with. It requires exceptional skill to isolate it.

plodder

astrofool wrote: »

Once made up, the vaccine has to be used within 6 hours, it can be stored pre-made up in a fridge for a few days. Once made up, it cannot be subjected to external shocks that may cause the solution to break down, so it cannot be transported from one location to another.

5 days. I agree it's not feasible to move it after it arrives in any location. It'd be better to use up the remainder of the five days finding the right people to give it to, than what happened here.

steddyeddy

It looks like something similar is going on in Tennessee.

Tennessee residents waited hours in long lines to get a coronavirus jab, but an alleged calculation error resulted in many being turned away, leaving excess shots, which were then given by health workers to their close contacts.
Demand for the jab was so high in Chattanooga on Thursday that vehicles queuing at a site where the vaccine was being administered caused traffic jams. Hamilton County officials had announced that anyone 75 or older could receive the shot and that no appointment was necessary.

Apparently believing that they would run out of doses, health authorities took to Twitter to ask people to leave and return at a later time to receive the Pfizer jab.

But it appears that at least some of the people who waited patiently for the shot were cheated. After vaccinating the remaining people in the line, there were still unused doses. Claiming that they didn’t want to waste the drugs, health workers reportedly called family and friends and invited them to take one of the ‘excess’ jabs.

As a result, vaccinations continued late into the evening. After being tipped off, a local NBC affiliate arrived at the scene, where one driver told a reporter that he had “contacts” and that all seven people in his vehicle had been vaccinated. It’s unclear whether any of them were in the 75-or-older or another high-risk group.

lucernarian

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes the vaccine components are comprised of mRNA, which is one of the most unstable biomolecules you can work with. It requires exceptional skill to isolate it.

It's one of the greatest biological wonders of our time, a nurse told me today that it would be a sin to waste a dose. I think most people are of the opinion that when shots are in arms, that's one step closer to freedom from this disease for all of us.

steddyeddy

lucernarian wrote: »

It's one of the greatest biological wonders of our time, a nurse told me today that it would be a sin to waste a dose. I think most people are of the opinion that when shots are in arms, that's one step closer to freedom from this disease for all of us.

Ah that depends on "waste" though. It's not technically a waste to randomly vaccinate strangers with no list but it's not conducive to getting out of the pandemic faster. Priorities need to be followed.

lucernarian

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ah that depends on "waste" though. It's not technically a waste to randomly vaccinate strangers with no list but it's not conducive to getting out of the pandemic faster. Priorities need to be followed.

True, but this situation at the Coombe was one where they had 120 doses left over, they tried their best to have other HCWs vaccinated and as a last resort, found, through nepotism and friends, those who would gratefully accept the dose and it seems were from more vulnerable groups to begin with. Again I feel sorry for the Master of the Coombe who had no guidance for this situation from the people who were responsible for providing a plan.

steddyeddy

The thing that amazes me about this is that frontline workers in Kerry, the Coombe and the Rotunda have leaked information out. This sort of thing goes on all the time regarding HSE nepotism and it's rarely leaked.

The last one I remember being leaked is the case where sons and daughters were hired in temporary positions.

The Irish Examiner has learnt that HSE staff in the mid-west region have expressed concern at how people who were taken on as temporary community welfare officers (CWOs) last year outside normal recruitment procedures were given new positions as clerical officers last month.

It is understood at least three people, who are closely related to long-serving HSE staff, have got jobs through this process.

“There is incredible bad feeling among staff at the moment. Morale in the HSE Mid-West region has hit rock bottom over this,” said one employee who wished to remain anonymous.

steddyeddy

lucernarian wrote: »

True, but this situation at the Coombe was one where they had 120 doses left over, they tried their best to have other HCWs vaccinated and as a last resort, found, through nepotism and friends, those who would gratefully accept the dose and it seems were from more vulnerable groups to begin with. Again I feel sorry for the Master of the Coombe who had no guidance for this situation from the people who were responsible for providing a plan.

It was his choice to give it to his son who didn't work there. He wasn't forced into it.

bucketybuck

lucernarian wrote: »

True, but this situation at the Coombe was one where they had 120 doses left over, they tried their best to have other HCWs vaccinated and as a last resort

So they say.

found, through nepotism and friends, those who would gratefully accept the dose and it seems were from more vulnerable groups to begin with. Again I feel sorry for the Master of the Coombe who had no guidance for this situation from the people who were responsible for providing a plan.

No guidance.

It says a lot that the concept of a reserve list could not possibly occur to anybody without "guidance".

GreeBo

Miike wrote: »

If this is all so above board why would the Master of the Coombe publicly state he "deeply regrets" the decisions made?

Because of the response from a number of idiots I'd guess.

steddyeddy

bucketybuck wrote: »

So they say.

No guidance.

It says a lot that the concept of a reserve list could not possibly occur to anybody without "guidance".

Which is amazing because reserve lists are used for every other type of vaccine.

steddyeddy

GreeBo wrote: »

Because of the response from a number of idiots I'd guess.

Yep only idiots question why his son who doesn't work at the hospital got it ahead of frontline workers from nearby hospitals.

theguzman

The HSE primarily is a dumping ground for the failed careers of family members and cronys, if you have a Fianna Fail pull you were guaranteed a job in the HSE or public service, tens of thousands of testicle scratcher's roles are filled each year by the slack jawed yokels who wouldn't last five minutes in the real world. Its exists primarily as a glorified welfare scheme for cronys but instead of €200 per week you get €800-€900 only keep your head down, make an illusion of doing work and drink as many cups of tea per day and do a bit of lick arsing everywhere there is a serious f*ck-up and you will never be held accountable, join an union and your on the downhill road to easy street until you retire.

The above does not generally apply to front line staff who keep the whole thing barely functional with all the weight on their shoulders continuously.

mugsyy

hynesie08 wrote: »

When are they due back? Why shouldn't they be vaccinated, they're going to be dealing with patients when they are back

Of course they should be vaccinated. I’m asking what order should the vaccinations take place. Would it not be good practice to ensure all active front line health care staff are vaccinated first ?

CiarraiAbu2

There was no reserve list before the 8th of January when this happened.