16 family members given vaccine

astrofool

plodder wrote: »

Sure. I guess they do groups of vials together. They could do 5, 10, 20 whatever.

But, when you get close to the end of the number of expected people, would you not make up smaller batches, so they don't go to waste. You don't want to be left with 20 vials made up and nobody to give them to?

Depends on the numbers, the next day the vials might only give 5 shots, and there will be 0 extra, they won't know till the vials are made up, if they get extra, and there's no mishaps, great, an extra 20-40% vaccines available. In most hospitals the excess could be given to vulnerable patients, however it's no surprise that in a maternity hospital, that it was much harder to find people for the excess dosages.

jelem

booterboy wrote: »

16 jabs would have been wasted if not used.
Have no problem with this as we are in position to flush vaccines down the toilet.

NO take to nursing home or clinic and give - to those in weak state (if they agree).
An upside is in 6 or more months time if major debillitation\death from jab shows up then
i happy i not ahead of list. STILL no facts on deaths and life changing side effects, but plenty
of politicians and pharma sending out "positive sound bites" to somewhat kick the can down
the road.

hynesie08

jelem wrote: »

NO take to nursing home or clinic and give - to those in weak state (if they agree).
An upside is in 6 or more months time if major debillitation\death from jab shows up then
i happy i not ahead of list. STILL no facts on deaths and life changing side effects, but plenty
of politicians and pharma sending out "positive sound bites" to somewhat kick the can down
the road.

Give to the weak to see if it will effect the strong.........

We've officially got people calling for eugenics now......

plodder

astrofool wrote: »

Depends on the numbers, the next day the vials might only give 5 shots, and there will be 0 extra, they won't know till the vials are made up, if they get extra, and there's no mishaps, great, an extra 20-40% vaccines available. In most hospitals the excess could be given to vulnerable patients, however it's no surprise that in a maternity hospital, that it was much harder to find people for the excess dosages.

Surely, the "excess" is just used as you go along?

It sounds as if it should work like a production line. If the vials are being used up faster today than yesterday, then the person doing the preparation will see that and start mixing new batches sooner, but it would need that person there all day monitoring it as opposed to just doing the whole batch at once at the start of the day.

Car99

jelem wrote: »

NO take to nursing home or clinic and give - to those in weak state (if they agree).
An upside is in 6 or more months time if major debillitation\death from jab shows up then
i happy i not ahead of list. STILL no facts on deaths and life changing side effects, but plenty
of politicians and pharma sending out "positive sound bites" to somewhat kick the can down
the road.

And who would you believe / accept evidence based advice from if not qualified people ? Would you believe an anonymous internet post about the bad vaccine over that of a trained professional who is at the top of their chosen discipline?

Tenzor07

I think the Government need to appoint a Minister to directly oversee the Vaccine rollout:

https://www.independent.ie/news/construction-workers-at-kerry-hospital-given-covid-19-vaccine-39983618.html

jelem

plodder wrote: »

Sure. I guess they do groups of vials together. They could do 5, 10, 20 whatever.

But, when you get close to the end of the number of expected people, would you not make up smaller batches, so they don't go to waste. You don't want to be left with 20 vials made up and nobody to give them to?

So you now have to believe that - pharma are sending out packaged goods (x doses in package)
and yet somehow if set for 20 and there are "LEFTOVERS" then something WRONG.
ah bejesus its like 11 gallon keg of beer with 6 pints spillage added LOL.
hi tech and pharma "exactivity" to avoid legal "issues" and yet there is Extra.
50ml is 50ml and x doses - or is health minister going to say pay for 50ml and get 58ml.
Or is the package being Wrongly "watered down".
LOL its all such a pathetic joke and adds to the conspiracy theorists list of facts which cannot
be denied.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

Depends on the numbers, the next day the vials might only give 5 shots, and there will be 0 extra, they won't know till the vials are made up, if they get extra, and there's no mishaps, great, an extra 20-40% vaccines available. In most hospitals the excess could be given to vulnerable patients, however it's no surprise that in a maternity hospital, that it was much harder to find people for the excess dosages.

I would like to have an understanding how vials containing x amount of material sometimes make x amount of vaccines or other times x +'1 amount of vaccines? I know I must be missing something.

steddyeddy

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I think the Government need to appoint a Minister to directly oversee the Vaccine rollout:

https://www.independent.ie/news/construction-workers-at-kerry-hospital-given-covid-19-vaccine-39983618.html

That makes two of us........

Psychiatric and other staff on the frontline could not understand why builders were vaccinated and the staff were “not even on a schedule”, she said.

plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

I would like to have an understanding how vials containing x amount of material sometimes make x amount of vaccines or other times x +'1 amount of vaccines? I know I must be missing something.

Apparently, it depends on the type of syringe used. There is a small volume of wastage in each one and some are better than others. I'm sure the skill (eye-sight) of the person administering it is a factor too.

plodder

plodder wrote: »

Apparently, it depends on the type of syringe used. There is a small volume of wastage in each one and some are better than others. I'm sure the skill (eye-sight) of the person administering it is a factor too.

And there was me imagining a standard size syringe would be used. Silly I know

Bass Reeves

bucketybuck wrote: »

Oh I have no doubt whatsoever that they were told to be around just in case.

There is absolutely nothing complicated about having a reserve list or an alternate list or whatever you want to call it, you don't need a ****ing memo from the lord above to know that you might have spare doses should one of those on your original list not show up for any reason.

Like I said before, this is only one of the most important vaccinations in the entirety of human history, is it really a lot to ask that we are doing the very basics correct?

Anyway, it is isn't about this one case, it was always about how this case illustrated what is likely happening on a wider scale, and with the further reports coming out it is pretty clear that it wasn't an isolated example.

plodder wrote: »

Sure. I guess they do groups of vials together. They could do 5, 10, 20 whatever.

But, when you get close to the end of the number of expected people, would you not make up smaller batches, so they don't go to waste. You don't want to be left with 20 vials made up and nobody to give them to?[/QUO

no matter what reserve list, extra reserve ir super reserved list you will have situation develop. Since Saturday they have put reserve lists in place. However with the limited life spam of this vaccine when it is taken from super cold temperatures you will have situations arrive at where you cannot full fill the criteria set.

There is the following limiting factors. when defrosted the vaccine has a five day life span in a refridgreated setting. When bought to room temperature it has a two hour limit to reconstitute. Then it has a 5 hour limit before it is unviable.

If I had such a product and was shipping it to a user I be telling them use it up on the day. Do not bring it back........especially on a Friday evening.

Next I am guessing that the Coombe administered it themselves either way staff had to be trained to do it. In such a unit you have multiple different job cycles. Nurses, porters, HCA's on 8-8 nights and days. admin staff on 9-5 mostly but other clerical on ahift. Doctors, consultants on different schedules and at work. To this you add ambulance staff on different start and stop times. Staff administering may have been on site from early morning. 1k people to vaccinate on different shifts.

Key responsibility, do not waste any so not return use on the day. I am thinking the coombe ran the vaccinate program themselves. By 5pm you know you have an issue. More doses than staff. HSE indicates it is your to sort. You start to get any other priority staff you can. However you are mind full of might staff shifts to arrive maybe at 7pm and 8pm. But you know you may or may not have extra doses after 8pm you know you have. At this stage you get staff to reach out to people that can attend. However you do not want at risk people coming in and not having doses. you indicate you need a non risk reserve of 5-10.

It a matter of understanding logistics

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

I would like to have an understanding how vials containing x amount of material sometimes make x amount of vaccines or other times x +'1 amount of vaccines? I know I must be missing something.

It depends on the syringe used.

After dilution, it is possible to obtain six doses from a vial if you use low dead-volume (≤35 μL) syringes and/or needles for all doses. Discard the vial and its contents if the amount of vaccine left in the vial is not enough for a full sixth dose (0.3 ml). Do not pool from multiple vials to make up an extra dose.

lillycakes2

Extra doses shouldnt be made up from the vile that doesnt make sense, i dont think that would be an accurate dose. Hope the people making it up there know what they are doing .

simonw

plodder wrote: »

Apparently, it depends on the type of syringe used. There is a small volume of wastage in each one and some are better than others. I'm sure the skill (eye-sight) of the person administering it is a factor too.

Is it a case that each vial has about 10% extra (1100 scheduled vaccines led to 120 "bonus" ones) to account for wastage, or are the volumes so small that the buffer is sometimes a whole extra dose?

Bass Reeves

Deleted User wrote: »

I would like to have an understanding how vials containing x amount of material sometimes make x amount of vaccines or other times x +'1 amount of vaccines? I know I must be missing something.

I am a farmer and I vaccinate cattle. some vaccines are in two parts Covid vaccines are like this. In one vaccine I use it comes in two parts one part is a powder in a small vial and another larger vial contains a carrier solution( a liquid). You pull some liquid from the larger vial and inject it into the smaller vial. because it is under vaccum it draws the liquid in and mixes in the vial.

You now draw the active vaccine from the smaller vial and inject it back into the larger vial. To get all reconstituted material it often takes me 3-4 goes in the smaller vial. When giving the vaccine the small the gauge of the needle and the more accurate the syringe(longer and narrower is better) the more accurate the dose.

Now drug companies have to allow for plonkers. Not everyone will be as good as the Coombe Hospital staff especially when you go outside profession enviorments. Therefore you put extra powder and solution in vials so that there will be at least the number of doses as per stated.

I discovered early that the vaccine I use has about 15% extra doses compared to stated. To allow for the needle I use I give 1.9 instead of 2cc. I get 12 doses out of a ten dose vial at least and I am only a stupid farmer

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

It depends on the syringe used.

Perhaps an order should be made for a specific syringe to be used. Can't be that difficult for somebody frightfully clever to think that up. Or are the needles a bit like need for PPE stores in this country, couldn't possibly have been foreseen that dose measurement might need to be precise. Perhaps the idle publicans should be brought on board, they are pretty good as measuring out precisely no matter what size of glass. Pastry chefs would be good too, baking measurements need to be precise to get the correct result. I'm glad when I step on board an aircraft that the pilot has made a precise calculation of the take-off run given load & weather conditions, as well as fuel endurance, otherwise I'd get concerned.

bucketybuck

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I discovered early that the vaccine I use has about 15% extra doses compared to stated. To allow for the needle I use I give 1.9 instead of 2cc. I get 12 doses out of a ten dose vial at least and I am only a stupid farmer

Do you have a list of cows and their children that you can call so that the extra doses don't go to waste?

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps an order should be made for a specific syringe to be used. Can't be that difficult for somebody frightfully clever to think that up. Or are the needles a bit like need for PPE stores in this country, couldn't possibly be foreseen that dose measurement might need to be precise. Perhaps the idle publicans should be brought on board, they are pretty good as measuring out precisely no matter what size of glass. Pastry chefs would be good too, baking measurements need to be precise to get the correct result. I'm glad when I step on board an aircraft that the pilot has made a precise calculation of the take-off run given load & weather conditions, as well as fuel endurance, otherwise I'd get concerned.

You do know there is an upper and lower tolerance limit to those measurements? How precise do you think the aircraft calculation is?

Bass Reeves

bucketybuck wrote: »

Do you have a list of cows and their children that you can call so that the extra doses don't go to waste?

It Drystock bullocks And I now gauge what I buy to the number I need to vaccinate. Rhe vials come in 5/10/25 dose sizes. For 33-35 cattle group you get away with a 5 and 25 vial for 34-36 3X10 dose vials. The bigger the vial size the cheaper per dose

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

You do know there is an upper and lower tolerance limit to those measurements? How precise do you think the aircraft calculation is?

I do indeed, used to fly aircraft pre GPS when all calculations were done with pen, paper & rulers, without electronics. Navigation still needed to be fairly precise, not of the order of 20% latitude.

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It Drystock bullocks And I now gauge what I buy to the number I need to vaccinate. Rhe vials come in 5/10/25 dose sizes. For 33-35 cattle group you get away with a 5 and 25 vial for 34-36 3X10 dose vials. The bigger the vial size the cheaper per dose

Are you available to the HSE?

timeToLive

PO!NT wrote: »

Tip of the sword stuff imo.

I have 0 proof but I dont believe this is an isolated event.

Have to agree with this.


How did the 16 people get to the hospital? If they're outside of 5km they should be fined, no? :P

timeToLive

timeToLive wrote: »

Have to agree with this.


How did the 16 people get to the hospital? If they're outside of 5km they should be fined, no? :P

Travelling for medical appointment allowed

Bass Reeves

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you available to the HSE?

They do not need me they are doing fine. They just have tomout with with a lot of idiots not able to see beyond a newspaper headline

lucernarian

timeToLive wrote: »

Have to agree with this.


How did the 16 people get to the hospital? If they're outside of 5km they should be fined, no? :P

If it's safe to say it's happening elsewhere, this is only to do with the leftovers and not the scheduled plan. Meaning it's a tiny percentage going to a very grateful small minority. As for the 5km limit, going to get a covid vaccine hardly comes into the remit of unnecessary journeys.

timeToLive

lucernarian wrote: »

If it's safe to say it's happening elsewhere, this is only to do with the leftovers and not the scheduled plan. Meaning it's a tiny percentage going to a very grateful small minority. As for the 5km limit, going to get a covid vaccine hardly comes into the remit of unnecessary journeys.

"Yes sir, my journey is essential. I am on my way to get a vaccine.


No sir, I do not have an appointment.


No sir, I do not have any proof - I just got a phone call from my dad/mam/aunt/brother/uncle"

lucernarian

timeToLive wrote: »

"Yes sir, my journey is essential. I am on my way to get a vaccine.


No sir, I do not have an appointment.


No sir, I do not have any proof - I just got a phone call from my dad/mam/aunt/brother/uncle"

If you travel in a goCar, the Gardaí don't appear to stop you. But seriously, it wouldn't take long to sort out the bull****ters from those actually going to get a possible dose. I really doubt those willing to go wherever they want would be playing the vaccine card.

kirb42

The issue is nothing to do with the disposal of the left-over vaccine, it’s to do with the proximity of those in authority to nominate who would benefit from it. I gather the cleaning staff, porters and care assistants were given equal opportunity to put the names of their loved ones forward. From my own family perspective, several of which are employed within the organisation, the culture is toxic, no leadership, no discipline, I am not one bit surprised to hear that this has occurred. Out of sheer decency and curtesy, the next in line to receive those vaccines should have been the local police and fire brigade that were on duty that evening… were all equal don’t forget, a few more so than the rest, absolutely nuts…

crazy 88

kirb42 wrote: »

The issue is nothing to do with the disposal of the left-over vaccine, it’s to do with the proximity of those in authority to nominate who would benefit from it. I gather the cleaning staff, porters and care assistants were given equal opportunity to put the names of their loved ones forward. From my own family perspective, several of which are employed within the organisation, the culture is toxic, no leadership, no discipline, I am not one bit surprised to hear that this has occurred. Out of sheer decency and curtesy, the next in line to receive those vaccines should have been the local police and fire brigade that were on duty that evening… were all equal don’t forget, a few more so than the rest, absolutely nuts…

Or they could have just walked out of the hospital, into a local supermarket, pharmacy or any essential shop where the staff are at high risk and offer it to them.

They obviously thought this wouldn't get out.