16 family members given vaccine

froog

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't know does this wash... any bit of advance planning should match X recipients with X doses.

And what if people dont show up?

celt262

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Talk about 'fake news'! There's so much wrong with that statement that it really doesn't warrant comment but such patently inaccurate garbage has to be called out for what it is.

I'm sure there is plenty of it on Facebook.

runawaybishop

seamus wrote: »

And what, though? Transfer a patient from an acute hospital to a maternity hospital just so you can jab them, and then send them back again? Have staff members from another hospital come in, risking contamination of the maternity hospital?

There's lots of great ideas in hindsight, but when you're on the clock you can't make rash decisions.

They weren't given to kids. They were the adult children of the Master of the Coombe, who also work in the hospital on a part time bases. The Irish Times has framed this whole thing to sound like he called his wife and she drove the X-7 down with some five year olds in the back seat to get the vaccines.

Completely correct. Papers trying to sensationalise as usual.

GreeBo

kingstevii wrote: »

Theres 151 paramedics every night in Dublin for brigade, so enough cover id say.. One phone call to the fire brigade mobilisation officer would've been enough..

I have the "House burns down while firefighters skip vaccination queue" thread on standby...

polesheep

meeeeh wrote: »

Shinner then... Predictable.

Ha ha. I have never been a member of any political party, nor have I ever voted along party lines.

votecounts

How do we know they were going out of date, surely there should have been protocols in place for what to do in this situation.

golondrinas1

yosser hughes wrote: »

Two college going kids of the Master of the Hospital were among those who got the vaccine.
Was there really nobody else around? I bet he didn't offer the cleaning or canteen staff a vaccine.
James's Hospital is literally 5 minutes away also.

I have to laugh at the tolerance people have for this type of carry on. Many making excuses for this. Why? It's an acceptance of low standards.

But he clearly states that he personally made every effort to contact front line workers before he engaged in nepotism. Not very good with communication then if there are hundreds of HCW s in a short radius of the hospital.

Christy42

Get Real wrote: »

This is a fair point, and you can see efforts were tried. But jesus, for the last 16, would it not be fairly obvious that you just don't do that.

Lidl is a two min drive from the Coombe (granted may have been closed)
Dolphins barn fire Station is a 6 minute drive
Kilmainham Garda Station is 8 mins.

Are you telling me there wasn't 16 people available, within minutes of a journey, that were available to receive this vaccine?

And that can be seen as being pedantic, fair enough. But, if the statement says all efforts were made, we need to know the details of what areas/suburbs these vaccines were given to. Are you telling me it was closer and easier than a six minute drive away? To people who are out every day and exposed.

I can't blame the staff of the families who got to avail of it. But as the one in charge, the master should have known this "scandal" was inevitable, and you just don't do that. Particularly if it turns out his own family members got it.

Presumably those were part of the 104 or the attempts to get the 104.

Russman

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't know does this wash... any bit of advance planning should match X recipients with X doses.

They never know if they'll be able to get and extra dose or two out of the vials. There's bound to be some leeway.

Amirani

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Will agree thatvthw should not have been binned...but surely they could have been used in nearby hospital, which are 15-30 Minutes drive, or even to other frontline staff nearby

There's a lot of stuff to unpick in this story. But on this; the vaccine once mixed can't be transported, it had to stay on site. So driving it 30 minutes away wasn't an option.

Staff at other hospitals are busy too, they can't just swan off for 2 hours to go to another hospital unexpectedly.

GreeBo

LOL at popping down to LIDL

Imagine the outrage from ALDI!

GhostyMcGhost

Casati wrote: »

Why would they have gone to waste? Surely the hospital could have made a call to other hospitals or the many medical centres that operate within 2km of the hospital. If they have any reasonable level of planning it would be very easy to find a front line medical workers who hasn't been vaccinated

Don’t get me wrong, is not ideal that the spare capacity didn’t go to frontline workers themselves. I just would just hate to think that they’d be discarded. I don’t know if the hospital tried other places first like the Garda or fire stations, 16, I don’t see it as a huge* issue but if you add a 0 on there I’d be more concerned

*At that point there was no setup to deal with leftover doses. You’d like to hope that now there is and that’s something that Stephen Donnelly could confirm and or reassure us that we can trust the rollout plan

SteM

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't know does this wash... any bit of advance planning should match X recipients with X doses.

The hospital vaccinated throughout that day and said at the time, “five vaccines were expected from each vial” of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine.

“However throughout the day it was possible to get six doses out of most vials, and in some cases seven,” they said

If they're getting more doses per vial than expected then it would be hard to match X recipients with X doses imo.

Unknownability

Chips Lovell wrote: »

The upshot of this now is that excess vaccine doses are going to get binned because the people administering them are going to be worried about the flak they'll get if someone not on the list receives one.

No it's not, the upshot is that they will now formalise the arrangements I. E. Contact the nearest Gardai station / Prison / Fire station.

"Just an FYI we are vaccinating in the area today if we've any leftover will you mention it and see if anyone is interested? We will know more throughout the day and I'll keep in touch."

Get Real

Christy42 wrote: »

Presumably those were part of the 104 or the attempts to get the 104.

Good point, fair enough if that's the case. I hope it is. Then overall, I don't feel one way or another on the story.

astrofool

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Will agree thatvthw should not have been binned...but surely they could have been used in nearby hospital, which are 15-30 Minutes drive, or even to other frontline staff nearby

The vaccines, once formulated, cannot travel.

An Ri rua

SteM wrote: »

If they're getting more doses per vial than expected then it would be hard to match X recipients with X doses imo.

If they're getting more doses than expected and getting caught out on this scale, then they're not very scientific in their methods are they?

hynesie08

Imagine the optics if a couple of people died in a road traffic accident because the ambulance drivers were queueing up in the coombe for an unplanned vaccine?

Or if you were an ambulance driver attending a scene who arrives back to find out you missed out on it because you didn't happen to be sitting in base when the phone rang....... Unions would have a field day with that one.

runawaybishop

Get Real wrote: »

(posted a few mins ago and accidentally deleted in edited mode, I'm an idiot 😅)

This is a fair point, and you can see efforts were tried. But jesus, for the last 16, would it not be fairly obvious that you just don't do that.

Lidl is a two min drive from the Coombe (granted may have been closed)
Dolphins barn fire Station is a 6 minute drive
Kilmainham Garda Station is 8 mins.

Are you telling me there wasn't 16 people available, within minutes of a journey, that were available to receive this vaccine?

And that can be seen as being pedantic, fair enough. But, if the statement says all efforts were made, we need to know the details of what areas/suburbs these vaccines were given to. Are you telling me it was closer and easier than a six minute drive away? To people who are out every day and exposed.

I can't blame the staff of the families who got to avail of it. But as the one in charge, the master should have known this "scandal" was inevitable, and you just don't do that. Particularly if it turns out his own family members got it.

You expect them to drive around hoping to find people to vaccinate? What a waste of time. They were running out of time and needed to use the extra doses. In that case you pick up the phone and get people asap, in this case most were over 70 and the two children were adults who worked part time in the hospital. Storm in a teacup nonsense.

hynesie08

An Ri rua wrote: »

If they're getting more doses than expected and getting caught out on this scale, then they're not very scientific in their methods are they?

16 out of 1100+ is a tenth of a %, that's not scale.

runawaybishop

An Ri rua wrote: »

If they're getting more doses than expected and getting caught out on this scale, then they're not very scientific in their methods are they?

That's not how it works. Vials are overfilled. Depending on the syringe used and how careful the staff are they can squeeze extra doses out. This is a good thing, not a negative.

SteM

An Ri rua wrote: »

If they're getting more doses than expected and getting caught out on this scale, then they're not very scientific in their methods are they?

They're managing to get more doses per vial, vaccinate more people per vial then expected and people are still critical. There's no hope.

Freewheel

Great work getting 1,100 vaccines administered. Hug logistical challenge and I’m certain those organising put in long and stressful hours and at the very end made a quick decision not to waste last few and needed to get people in quickly and no formal process so got 16 family members in quickly. Not 100% perfect but in overall context these people deserve our praise and appreciation

Christy42

Get Real wrote: »

Good point, fair enough if that's the case. I hope it is. Then overall, I don't feel one way or another on the story.

If it isn't the case that they made serious efforts then I will join the outrage but from the sounds of it they were trying to do it right. I will save outrage for actual confirmation of wrong doing.

Bass Reeves

I have given up over the years trying to explain logistics to plonkers. It like lads telling you masks make no difference as the same amount of people wearing masks get COVID as those that do not. Or that social interaction was not a he cause of the present outbreak.

They did everything right. They got 6-7 dudes put of every vial. At the end they had 120 extra doses. By 9.30 pm they had administered 104 of these extra dose to priority staff where they could be found. They had 16 left over with probably a time frame of way less than an hour because of limited refrigeration and time after drawing first vials.

It was F@@king after 9pm. I suppose for all the dumb plonkers out there who the f@@j was going to be available in a hospital at this stage to make maybe 40-50 calls to get definate candidates for vaccine. There is no guarantee even if they did that these people would be available in 21 days time. As well there is no guarantee that the 16 will get the second and dose. Even some of the previous 104 may not get a second dose. These people will be the last priority on the 21 day 2nd dose. No point in giving it to new mother either who might not be available in 21 days time to wait 3-4 hours for a second dose that might not arrive.


I do have an issue how the Coombe got so many doses for all staff however I can understand mistakes will be made. The person who never made a mistake never did f@@k all as long as I was working with people. You make the decision and he did that. In one way they did well in the Coombe. Whoever allotted them doses for all staff members needs to answer questions not the Coombe.

PO!NT

2 weeks ago we had St Vincent’s Senior Management getting vaccinated before some of the ICU staff.

Friday we have family members of the Coombe getting vaccinated.

it doesn't give the average joe who has to wait until Q3 or later confident to get vaccinated within the timeline presented by the HSE .

Dyr

There was someone in the coronavirus forum/thread last week who claimed this was happening

Doubt this is an isolated case, the ould Health Service Executive is a source of national pride so we must protect it, and all its relatives...

daheff

Fann Linn wrote: »

As someone said last night 2 Garda stations and Dolphins Barn fire brigade station within 15 minutes of the Coombe.
Plenty of front line workers there.

maybe they did contact the fire brigade and they may already have had been vaccinated?


You could also say that ST James' hospital is within 10-15 mins of the coombe too.


in response to Coombe getting too many doses, it may be that they were given 1 dose per staff member...but people who have contract Covid cannot get a vaccination until 90 after they are cleared of covid....so maybe there were more either with Covid or suspected with Covid than expected meaning extra doses available.

IMO better to use them than waste them. Small number of doses overall in comparison.

is_that_so

Bambi wrote: »

There was someone in the coronavirus forum/thread last week who claimed this was happening

Doubt this is an isolated case, the ould Health Service Executive is a source of national pride so we must protect it, and all its relatives...

This is hospitals and hospital management making the decisions.

jill_valentine

An Ri rua wrote: »

If they're getting more doses than expected and getting caught out on this scale, then they're not very scientific in their methods are they?

The excess dose comes from "overfill", companies err on the side of caution by slightly overfilling vials rather than risk underfilling, to account for manufacturing variations. It is not a reliable quantity and under normal circumstances it's a little frowned on to cobble together multiple overfills into a single dose so it could never be officially mandated.