16 family members given vaccine

Christy42

steddyeddy wrote: »

He prioritised his sons at the expense of frontline workers. He's right to apologise but there's certainly a lack of an effective back up made in case more became available.

Do you also not see anything wrong with launching a vaccine dispensing program before a booking system was available?

You would prefer to delay dispensing the vaccine?

Do we have specific front line workers that were overlooked or is it just the vague notion of them as a group?

is_that_so

The Coombe Board will be discussing this later today.

plodder

GreeBo wrote: »

Isnt the whole vial diluted though?
And assuming the have more than one person giving the vaccines, you are going to have more than 1 vial on the go at once.
Also the entire tray is taken from -70 storage and put into a regular storage, the vaccine has a limited lifespan from that point, diluted or not.

It's in the link. Vials can be kept for 5 days after thawing in the fridge.

Once taken from the fridge they are brought to room temperature and must be diluted within two hours and then used within 6 hours.

120 spare doses is 20 vials. I don't see why you would need that number out of the fridge at the same time.

jill_valentine

Just FYI for people suggesting they round up anyone in Lidl, that's my local Lidl and it's closed until February for refurbishment

Lillyfae

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

Strumms

DraftDodger wrote: »

There is going to be lots and lots of this kind of stuff going on in the coming weeks and months and it won't be confined to this country either. As the son of a 82 year old father and a 79 year old mother who are basically confined to the house until they get their second jab to hear of people jumping queues is maddening.

It’s infuriating yes. But is anybody surprised ? Quite simply this is the Irish way, the mindset....politicians and people in positions of power and responsibility have been looking after themselves and their vested interests.. family/friends for decades.... way ahead of ideals and fairness.... you ‘look after your own’ in their mindset but forget who pays them and for doing what.

I’m old school, first come first served... benefiting in life over other people in greater need, by virtue of ‘who you know’ is bollocks.

I can’t believe this is going on, in a pandemic, the greatest threat to the wellbeing of this state and its people, ever... actually, I can and do believe it.. right out of the crappy selfish Irish playbook. :rolleyes:

alwald

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

To get the jab.

hynesie08

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

They need experience and their father works there?

steddyeddy

seamus wrote: »

You quoted a nurse in Tipperary. What frontline workers in Dublin weren't contacted?
.

His (O’Connell's) two sons were given priority over frontline workers. Either the protocol for leftovers wasn't followed or worse yet, there is no protocol. You can't tell me that you believe two frontline workers to take the place of his sons could be found.

Jinglejangle69

Sinn Féin on a mad one.

Surprise surprise.

Dyr

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's definitely a far bigger story here. Friends of mine still working in other hospitals state that administration workers in other hospitals have got it before frontline workers. They have contacted the media as well.

Surely it was just to ensure vaccinations weren't wasted, rather than the cute hoorism that public sector is famous for. It's just so happens that senior managers grannies were the only ones available to hop in the jammer and floor it to reach the hospital in time.

Seems to be a lot of willfully gullible types posting on here

steddyeddy

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

Experience is why it's needed and nepotism is why they got it. It's highly unusual in science/medicine to hire relatives. This guy is famous for it. When I seen his name I guessed what happened.

Christy42

steddyeddy wrote: »

His (O’Connell's) two sons were given priority over frontline workers. Either the protocol for leftovers wasn't followed or worse yet, there is no protocol. You can't tell me that you believe two frontline workers to take the place of his sons could be found.

They found 104.

Melanchthon

seamus wrote: »

And what, though? Transfer a patient from an acute hospital to a maternity hospital just so you can jab them, and then send them back again? Have staff members from another hospital come in, risking contamination of the maternity hospital?

There's lots of great ideas in hindsight, but when you're on the clock you can't make rash decisions.

They weren't given to kids. They were the adult children of the Master of the Coombe, who also work in the hospital on a part time bases. The Irish Times has framed this whole thing to sound like he called his wife and she drove the X-7 down with some five year olds in the back seat to get the vaccines.

This explanation falls down though doesn't it because his kids work at his private practice so we have the cross contamination risk anyway.

It's grand though because we have to defend nepotism in Ireland to the hilt.

Amirani

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

The Coombe isn't a private hospital.

Fann Linn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Sinn Féin on a mad one.

Surprise surprise.

Not just the Shinners but if it makes you happy cheer leading, so be it.
Btw, the hospital did say what went on was wrong.

seamus

steddyeddy wrote: »

His (O’Connell's) two sons were given priority over frontline workers. Either the protocol for leftovers wasn't followed or worse yet, there is no protocol. You can't tell me that you believe two frontline workers to take the place of his sons could be found.

So you don't know of any nearby frontline workers that were overlooked then. Grand.

At the time there was no protocol for leftovers. There wasn't even a proper IT system in place for booking people in.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

Work experience. Also, the Coombe is not private.

jill_valentine

Lillyfae wrote: »

Can I just ask why someone would be volunteering in a private maternity hospital?

The Coombe used to have a lot of med experience and volunteer teaching stuff going on, I'd imagine they still do?

steddyeddy

Bambi wrote: »

Surely it was just to ensure vaccinations weren't wasted, rather than the cute hoorism that public sector is famous for. It's just so happens that senior managers grannies were the only ones available to hop in the jammer and floor it to reach the hospital in time.

Seems to be a lot of willfully gullible types posting on here

110%.

His two sons got the jab before other nurse who are now complaining about it. The fact they see nothing wrong with that is telling.

The vaccines last 8 hours (2 hours to dilute after you remove them from the freezer and 6 once you dilute them).

GreeBo

plodder wrote: »

It's in the link. Vials can be kept for 5 days after thawing in the fridge.

Once taken from the fridge they are brought to room temperature and must be diluted within two hours and then used within 6 hours.

120 spare doses is 20 vials. I don't see why you would need that number out of the fridge at the same time.

well if there were on day 5 since being taken from -70 then it doesnt matter if there were out of the fridge or not, right?

hynesie08

steddyeddy wrote: »

110%.

His two sons got the jab before other nurse who are now complaining about it. The fact they see nothing wrong with that is telling.

The vaccines last 8 hours (2 hours to dilute after you remove them from the freezer and 6 once you dilute them).

Nurses in tipperary, so unless they've invented teleportation, they're just moaning for the sake of it.

bucketybuck

Its crazy that people still can't see the real issue here.

It isn't about this particular 16 vials or who got them. The problem is that it is clearly very simple to abuse the system.

Want to make sure your family gets vaccinated first? Do it and then claim that the vials were going to go to waste otherwise.

You have to be incredibly naïve not to think that there are people out there who won't take advantage of that loophole.

steddyeddy

seamus wrote: »

So you don't know of any nearby frontline workers that were overlooked then. Grand.

At the time there was no protocol for leftovers. There wasn't even a proper IT system in place for booking people in.

Work experience. Also, the Coombe is not private.

Right Seamus I worked in a hospital and part of my job was making calculations for things like this. What you have described in bold is incompetent beyond belief.

Yes actually I do know workers in St.James' hospital for example that didn't get it.

BlueSkys102

Lu Tze wrote: »

Really, they would have been wasted? They were in a hospital, was there nobody left in the hospital that was higher up the priority list that they had resort to ringing up family members and wait for them to travel to the hospital?

This is exactly what I was thinking myself, Once the vaccine is taken out it has to be used. Unfortunately some of the higher risk people may not be able to get to the hospital within a certain time to get it or may still be quite scared about getting it.

I take alot of these stories with a pinch of salt

Amirani

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its crazy that people still can't see the real issue here.

It isn't about this particular 16 vials or who got them. The problem is that it is clearly very simple to abuse the system.

Want to make sure your family gets vaccinated first? Do it and then claim that the vials were going to go to waste otherwise.

You have to be incredibly naïve not to think that there are people out there who won't take advantage of that loophole.

That's why it's important to know what steps were taken before the decision was made to give out those 16 doses, i.e. who was contacted and what process was followed etc. I don't think a clear explanation has been given on this.

Miike

seamus wrote: »

Your starting point is irrational. You're suggesting that he should have just started randomly contacting....people. What people? Where would he get their details? Do you think there's a HSE database of "high risk people" that someone can log onto and get phone numbers?

I suggest he contacts other hospitals or consultants leading teams in the region. I reiterate my point that his story of not being able to find people (read people as frontline healthcare workers, since that somehow managed to escape you) doesn't hold water for me. I posted in a thread recently highlighting that I know of people who work with COVID positive patients in their homes (doctors, nurses, home help, allied health professionals) who have been told it will be 4 to 6 weeks before they will have an appointment. Caring for people who are not unwell enough to be hospitalised with COVID but still requiring intensive support in the community - These are the people I would be targeting. Not my children. If you can't compare the quantitative risk of these people versus his kids (one of whom works in his private clinic and the other who 'volunteers' at the Coombe) that's on you.

Amirani wrote: »

Because it has been reported in every story on the issue.

I genuinely missed this in the articles I've read on the issue. Could you link one?

gmisk

steddyeddy wrote: »

His (O’Connell's) two sons were given priority over frontline workers. Either the protocol for leftovers wasn't followed or worse yet, there is no protocol. You can't tell me that you believe two frontline workers to take the place of his sons could be found.

So you are arguing over two of the 120 spare vaccines?
One works in a medical practice the other works in the hospital.

"Two of the recipients are understood to be Dr O’Connell’s children, one of whom is college-going age, and is a paid part-time worker in his private medical practice. The other works intermittently in the hospital as an unpaid worker."

So 120 vaccines spare, they found 104 people at short notice.
16 had to be found at ever shorter notice and of the other 16 - 9 were over 70...
Would people rather they were just dumped?

Honestly mountain out of a molehill imo.

PO!NT

So how do any of us get on the Spare Vaccine list?

I can travel

or is this a friends and family event only?

jill_valentine

steddyeddy wrote: »

110%.

His two sons got the jab before other nurse who are now complaining about it. The fact they see nothing wrong with that is telling.

I think it's rather telling that neither your originally quoted version of her story nor this summation of it mention that, once again, she's in Tipperary, a place quite famous for its distance from subject at hand.

hynesie08

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its crazy that people still can't see the real issue here.

It isn't about this particular 16 vials or who got them. The problem is that it is clearly very simple to abuse the system.

Want to make sure your family gets vaccinated first? Do it and then claim that the vials were going to go to waste otherwise.

You have to be incredibly naïve not to think that there are people out there who won't take advantage of that loophole.

1: doses not vials

2: they didn't get vaccinated first, extra doses were discovered, 90% were distributed, the last 10% included 2 members of the doctors family (who are frontline workers). That's a backarse way of skipping the queue.

ninebeanrows

The way people have reacted to this is shocking.

Seems people prefer the vaccine to be in the bin.

Faux rage from lots of bored and angry people.

I say fair play for being innovative and getting the vaccine into arms on a Saturday evening, after working expertly to extract more doses from the vials than expected.

youandme13

His two children are both working in the hospital, so Are frontline. And 9 of the 16 are over 70 - so would be getting the vaccine in the next week or two.

They got 104 extra people to be vaccinated and couldn't find the last 16, and what? Would people actually rather it be discarded and a waste of vaccines?

It was after 9.30pm and they have a v short shelf life and you cant travel with the vaccines either.

Amirani

Miike wrote: »

I genuinely missed this in the articles I've read on the issue. Could you link one?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coombe-board-to-discuss-giving-of-covid-19-vaccine-to-16-family-members-of-staff-1.4461145

"The Coombe said it was able to produce more than 120 additional vaccines, beyond what was anticipated, from its supply of vials of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine on January 8th."

All of these 120 were given out. Hence we know well over 100 people were contacted in order to give unscheduled vaccines to.

Lillyfae

Volunteering or interning? Doesn't matter, shouldn't be possible at the moment with the risk of infection. If I was having a baby at the moment I wouldn't be mad about the idea of some randomer walking around the hospital "volunteering". Did the master of the Coombe have the vaccine actually?

plodder

GreeBo wrote: »

well if there were on day 5 since being taken from -70 then it doesnt matter if there were out of the fridge or not, right?

Why would they be on day 5? I'd say it was day 1 or 2 at the latest. The super cold freezers are in the Dublin area somewhere.

I think if they haven't already, the HSE needs to come up with a system that fills gaps like this and can schedule appointments at short notice, eg the following day. They actually did well to find 100 people for the same day, if there isn't a proper system in place

gmisk

steddyeddy wrote: »

Right Seamus I worked in a hospital and part of my job was making calculations for things like this. What you have described in bold is incompetent beyond belief.

Yes actually I do know workers in St.James' hospital for example that didn't get it.

The part in bold
"At the time there was no protocol for leftovers. There wasn't even a proper IT system in place for booking people in."


It's true though?
"The hospital said the HSE vaccination booking system did not go live until the following day and so it was not possible to pre-book vaccinations and to be certain of the doses required."

Also...pen and paper are used to record vaccines..
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/pen-and-paper-used-to-record-vaccines-as-it-system-not-in-place-yet-d%C3%A1il-told-1.4458313

CIARAN_BOYLE

Miike wrote: »

I genuinely missed this in the articles I've read on the issue. Could you link one?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/dublin-hospital-gave-leftover-vaccines-to-16-relatives-of-staff-1.4460718%3fmode=amp

Quick summary of the key points you seem to have missed
Made up 120 extra doses.
Contacted the HSE.
Made every effort to contact front line workers.
Then had 16 extra doses.

bucketybuck

gmisk wrote: »

16 had to be found at ever shorter notice

Did they?

Or were those 16 always earmarked to get a sneaky jab first chance this doctor got?

Miike

Amirani wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coombe-board-to-discuss-giving-of-covid-19-vaccine-to-16-family-members-of-staff-1.4461145

"The Coombe said it was able to produce more than 120 additional vaccines, beyond what was anticipated, from its supply of vials of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine on January 8th."

All of these 120 were given out. Hence we know well over 100 people were contacted in order to give unscheduled vaccines to.

So there's 120 extra doses. We'll make contact with 120 people and if we don't use them sure give them to my kids. Heaven forbid they sought out higher priority people after 9.30 in the evening, how taxing.

thecomedian

gmisk wrote: »

So you are arguing over two of the 120 spare vaccines?
One works in a medical practice the other works in the hospital.

"Two of the recipients are understood to be Dr O’Connell’s children, one of whom is college-going age, and is a paid part-time worker in his private medical practice. The other works intermittently in the hospital as an unpaid worker."

So 120 vaccines spare, they found 104 people at short notice.
16 had to be found at ever shorter notice and of the other 16 - 9 were over 70...
Would people rather they were just dumped?

Honestly mountain out of a molehill imo.

Is all of this true?

If so, what’s everyones problem?

Wombatman

The most surprising thing about this, is the amount of simpletons that believe that the only ONLY option available to them, was to vaccinate the Masters children.

angel eyes 2012

Amirani wrote: »

The Coombe isn't a private hospital.

There is a private clinic to the right of the public hospital when you enter the main gate.

gmisk

thecomedian wrote: »

Is all of this true?

If so, what’s everyones problem?

It is from everything I have read but I am open to correction.

Amirani

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

There is a private clinic to the right of the public hospital when you enter the main gate.

That doesn't make The Coombe a private hospital though?

hynesie08

Miike wrote: »

So there's 120 extra doses. We'll make contact with 120 people and if we don't use them sure give them to my kids. Heaven forbid they sought out higher priority people after 9.30 in the evening, how taxing.

What higher priority people?

seamus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Right Seamus I worked in a hospital and part of my job was making calculations for things like this. What you have described in bold is incompetent beyond belief.

Sure. But that still doesn't address the substantive issue. The lack of such a protocol or of an IT system is not Hugh O'Connor's responsibility. They did what they thought was the best use of these doses within a very limited window.

Yes actually I do know workers in St.James' hospital for example that didn't get it.

Yes, but were they overlooked on this particular day? No.

Lots of supposition, anecdotes and, "I can't believe the story" going on in this thread. I'll leave it to yis lads.

You can enjoy chewing the furniture later when Claire Byrne hosts a two-hour programme to discuss the finer points of this and have 2 sh1t-stirrers on complaining that hospital management dared take some initiative to avoid waste, when clearly the answer was sending the injections out via rocket-suit to vaccinate workers in Tipperary and Donegal.

And in 3 months time when we hear that thousands of doses have gone in the bin because hospitals are afraid of using their discretion, you'll know exactly who to thank.

suicide_circus

How did the jabs get into the arms in question?

Did these family members enter the maternity hospital (where families of new borns are forbotten)?

Or were the jabs transported elsewhere?

crossman47

gmisk wrote: »

So you are arguing over two of the 120 spare vaccines?
One works in a medical practice the other works in the hospital.

"Two of the recipients are understood to be Dr O’Connell’s children, one of whom is college-going age, and is a paid part-time worker in his private medical practice. The other works intermittently in the hospital as an unpaid worker."

So 120 vaccines spare, they found 104 people at short notice.
16 had to be found at ever shorter notice and of the other 16 - 9 were over 70...
Would people rather they were just dumped?

Honestly mountain out of a molehill imo.

I agree and \i don't think there was any need to apologise either. That makes it seem as if it was wrong when it wasn't. Its pure media hype like when, at the time of the cervical check issue, the media frightened women into thinking they might have a diagnosis of cancer but the HSE were hiding it. Irresponsible ghouls!

jill_valentine

thecomedian wrote: »

Is all of this true?

If so, what’s everyones problem?

Irish people are so conditioned to begrudgery that we'd rather know 16 viable vaccine doses were squirted down a drain than read somebody else got it ahead of time.

bucketybuck

hynesie08 wrote: »

2: they didn't get vaccinated first, extra doses were discovered, 90% were distributed, the last 10% included 2 members of the doctors family (who are frontline workers). That's a backarse way of skipping the queue.

Not at all, lots of people work to a target.

Such as keeping 16 aside for family, giving out the remainder and then sorting those 16 at the end when you "couldn't find anybody else".

So easy to dismiss that as a conspiracy theory, as if the country isn't full of people who would do exactly that.