Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Make no mistake, anti restrictions demonstrators are far left.

The cleverest thing the media did was convince the world they were far right.

Jesus, that reads like a Trump Tweet.

Anyway.

Police in Eindhoven, 80 miles south of Amsterdam, also used a water cannon and tear gas against a crowd of demonstrators that included supporters of the anti-immigrant group Pegida

Here is their founder.



Bloody media, *shakes fist*

froog

MOH wrote: »

Yeah, that article also claims that in the Ireland section that pubs are open for takeaway. There's at least one other error in it (albeit probably an omission for brevity). It also seems to think that "level 5" is an actual level of restrictions here, as opposed to a blanket term for whatever arbitrary combination are in force at any one time.

So I wouldn't take its description of any other country as gospel.

ah ffs

Kunta Kinte

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Are you serious?

Is this what 3 lockdowns do a to a person - create this need for violence at all costs just to calm some "protestors" down?

What will you be suggesting after 5th lockdown?? just shoot on sight?

I hope you are joking btw otherwise this is pretty horrifying.

Nope. Not joking at all. If certain scumbag elements want to play with fire then they should expect and deserve to get burned.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I passed the required CV-19 test with flying colours

What you get an A? Is it multiple choice?

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

What you get an A? Is it multiple choice?

Apparently so... you can be:

- Not infected
- Infected and have symptoms
- Infected and not know it until you have a test
- Classed as a "case" even if what you're ill with is something completely different but the rather overzealous test says you have it

So yup A+ Thanks for your concern Boggles. Missed you too!

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Apparently so... you can be:

- Not infected
- Infected and have symptoms
- Infected and not know it until you have a test
- Classed as a "case" even if what you're ill with is something completely different but the rather overzealous test says you have it

So yup A+ Thanks for your convern Boggles. Missed you too!

All joking aside, glad you got your eyes sorted.

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

All joking aside, glad you got your eyes sorted.

Cheers. You and me both. Bit of an adjustment but it's like seeing in 4K

Kunta Kinte

Deleted User wrote: »

If you had a shop in Ireland, you’d never be allowed to open it anyways!

A good looting might get you a decent insurance pay out.

So are you saying that looting is a good thing to happen to a business owner then? If you are, then to quote your buddy`s comment on here earlier

"Wow. Mind blowing".

Ginger n Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny how people who claim they are tying to “save lives” and “do the right thing” are the ones who keep talking about water cannons, tasers and rubber bullets. Generally while earning a full salary.

The other crowd would just like it if they could work and have their freedom again.

As I said before, when the government burn this country to the ground, I’ll sleep well knowing that I didn’t support this nonsense whatsoever.

I've been meaning to reply to this for a while as I see that in bold in good few posts lately.


When the government burn this country to the ground, I’ll also sleep well knowing that I didn’t support this nonsense whatsoever.

This is like an iconic sentence :pac:

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I've been meaning to reply to this for a while as I see that in bold in good few posts lately.


When the government burn this country to the ground, I’ll also sleep well knowing that I didn’t support this nonsense whatsoever.

This is like an iconic sentence :pac:

It’s also sensational hyperbole, best ignored.

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

It’s also sensational hyperbole, best ignored.

Nah you got it all wrong.

Sensational hyperbole is what was fed to us back in March last year with statements such as
"lockdowns will only be here for few weeks"
"lockdowns will save 250,000 lives"
"there will be a V shape recovery"


funny how those statements didnt actually come from poster on boards but rather from the government. They were wrong.

Sensational hyperbole, in hindsight, was clapping for HSE back in April and doing absolutely nothing as student nurses request for pay was declined by the government.

Ginger n Lemon

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

So are you saying that looting is a good thing to happen to a business owner then? If you are, then to quote your buddy`s comment on here earlier

"Wow. Mind blowing".

I think he is saying that if your goods get looted and you have insurance - you will get an insurance payout.

Windmill100000

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny how people who claim they are tying to “save lives” and “do the right thing” are the ones who keep talking about water cannons, tasers and rubber bullets. Generally while earning a full salary.

The other crowd would just like it if they could work and have their freedom again.

As I said before, when the government burn this country to the ground, I’ll sleep well knowing that I didn’t support this nonsense whatsoever.

Earlier today when the riots were first reported a poster said they were excited to hear about them. Were you also happy to hear it?

The working population in Ireland is approx 2.3 million. If we assume that a substantial portion of those on PUP will likely return to work, we are from burning to tbe ground.

growleaves

According to a new CFIB survey released Thursday, more than 181,000 businesses across the country are likely to shut down permanently because of the pandemic. That’s on top of the 58,000 which have already thrown in the towel. And that’s not even the worst-case scenario; the CFIB says it’s possible up to 222,000 could be set to pull the plug.

Up to 2.95 million jobs are at risk, the report added.

Link

Ginger n Lemon

Whatsisname wrote: »

If you use reddit, this is a good subreddit to follow, it can get a bit too American sometimes, but other than that it's usually a good source of information, and far from the lunatics the media would have you often believe.

Czech Republic

Czech hosts open despite tough corona rules

Italy

This is civil disobedience restaurants in Rome defy coronavirus closures

https://twitter.com/robinmonotti/status/1350232937376215042?s=20

https://twitter.com/robinmonotti/status/1350243773872222208?s=20

https://twitter.com/robinmonotti/status/1350245402671509504?s=20

Poland

More and more Poles are resisting Corona measures - with the help of the judiciaryl

https://twitter.com/otwieramy/status/1348602099089682432?s=20

For what its worth, on the CoronavirusUK subreddit, which has been a largely "we need to lockdown NOW REEEE" sub for months, more and more people are increasingly fed up of the goal posting shifting and March seems to be the breaking point for most. I've seen a lot of people say that if we're still restricted in March, they would join the protests.

Once the most vulnerable are vaccinated, people will do what they want, and rightly so.

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Earlier today when the riots were first reported a poster said they were excited to hear about them. Were you also happy to hear it?

The working population in Ireland is approx 2.3 million. If we assume that a substantial portion of those on PUP will likely return to work, we are from burning to tbe ground.

Thats very mischievous of you. I was delighted at above Whatshisname post.

I am still delighted for it.

I am not naive enough to actually think that Tony H will say "its all alright - re open the businesses, we got a good grip on this." - do you believe that will happen?

Long live the right to work and operate your business. Last time I checked none of these business owners were forcefully bringing customers in.

This is good news. This is good development. You ll note that Polish courts are saying that lockdowns are illegal unless its designated as national emergency. Do you understand the concept of law? If you do - take note. No rioting here, just courts deciding whats right and whats not.

Particular piece below

“Theoretically we have been closed for three months, without any government support, neither for me as an entrepreneur nor for my employees”, fitness studio operator Monika Sapinska explained her motives to the RBB on Thursday . In fact, a lot of companies in Poland miss out on state aid; a lot of special requirements must be met. In total, the government invested only 250 million euros in state money for this.

However, the Polish government is reluctant to declare a disaster, as it would then actually be obliged to make far higher compensation payments - a burden that the Polish national budget could hardly bear.

People have been left to starve with absolutely no income. Who wouldnt be delighted for courts standing up for such people??

Boggles

inforfun wrote: »

There were 2 separate groups at play yesterday in The Netherlands.
1 that demonstrated against the curfew and once the police got involved as in that clip, a 2nd group took their chance to riot and loot.

Because this is also The Netherlands 2021:

https://twitter.com/banananases/status/1353359045000720385


(18 stitches and skull fracturel the result)

Jesus, the comments are less than sympathetic.

Then again play stupid games win stupid prizes.

end of the road

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Anyways to the new poster here who wants to know or see what the endgame is

this is it

This is not Zimbabwe. Or Uganda. This is Netherlands. 2 hours flight from here. 1 of the key EU countries.

If you see that, now, after barely 9 months of this covid nonsense, can you imagine what will be happening after 12 months or 15 or 18?


at 0:25 there is an incredible scene

curfew is still in place, protesters arrested and will be dealt with.
protest failed.
nothing to see here.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nah.

What I am hoping for is other modern EU nations coming to their senses and avoiding riots by actually relaxing the measures, and Ireland sheepishly following other nations. As we have done since March 2020.

1 thing I am definitely not hoping for is Tony H saying on 6.01 PM that covid is not a concern anymore and other actual emergencies such as rising suicides, cancer deaths and mental illness need to be addressed asap. Hoping for that is living in cuckoo land , if last 10 months are anything to go by.

all european nations will relax restrictions and all else when it is actually safe to do so.
this will be decided on the basis of the actual evidence and nothing else, most certainly not on the basis of whinging or riots.
tony manages the national public health emergency team, which the current job of is to manage us through the covid pandemic, nothing else.
other issues that cause deaths are government/HSE responsibility to manage and not the national public health emergency team.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Jaysus Boggles. Are you trying to convince yourself that protests will go away?

You are in for 1 difficult year.

oh they won't go away, but the police will shut such riots down quickly and robustly.
sadly your dream of a riot here won't come true, or at least it will be small scale such that it will be sorted within a matter of minutes with all involved locked up.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Are you serious?

Is this what 3 lockdowns do a to a person - create this need for violence at all costs just to calm some "protestors" down?

What will you be suggesting after 5th lockdown?? just shoot on sight?

I hope you are joking btw otherwise this is pretty horrifying.

you agreed with the violent protesters so spare us the fo outrage.
sure, you avoided stating that outright but it's extremely obvious.
the other poster on the other hand agrees with proportionate force to neutralize potential threats to the state.

Windmill100000

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats very mischievous of you. I was delighted at above Whatshisname post.

I am still delighted for it.

I am not naive enough to actually think that Tony H will say "its all alright - re open the businesses, we got a good grip on this." - do you believe that will happen?

Long live the right to work and operate your business. Last time I checked none of these business owners were forcefully bringing customers in.

This is good news. This is good development. You ll note that Polish courts are saying that lockdowns are illegal unless its designated as national emergency. Do you understand the concept of law? If you do - take note. No rioting here, just courts deciding whats right and whats not.

Particular piece below

“Theoretically we have been closed for three months, without any government support, neither for me as an entrepreneur nor for my employees”, fitness studio operator Monika Sapinska explained her motives to the RBB on Thursday . In fact, a lot of companies in Poland miss out on state aid; a lot of special requirements must be met. In total, the government invested only 250 million euros in state money for this.

However, the Polish government is reluctant to declare a disaster, as it would then actually be obliged to make far higher compensation payments - a burden that the Polish national budget could hardly bear.

People have been left to starve with absolutely no income. Who wouldnt be delighted for courts standing up for such people??

Sorry, what is mischievous?

A poster pulls up others for suggesting violence when they have thanked a post saying they are delighted to hear about riots abroad.

growleaves

There is now a network of underground Christian churches meeting secretly in England apparently.

There have been secret weddings in London.

I don't think we'll be returning to 2019 conditions (though who knows?). In any case we're already well on the way to having a parallel society functioning beneath the 'official', surface society. In the future, many people will have a foot in both.

Covid19 seems to have driven people insane. I have seen supporters of restrictions on the main thread talking about how they haven't seen anyone in months and are crumbling mentally, and joking about killing people who go over the 5km.

pjohnson

Its not suprising that those demanding things to open up now favour looting/riots.

Earlier this year they complained about how Irish businesses were suffering, only to fly away and support foreign economies instead.

:pac:

growleaves

end of the road wrote: »

the other poster on the other hand agrees with proportionate force to neutralize potential threats to the state.

That's not what he said though. He said he would shut down scum behaviour by any means necessary. For all we know he could be in favour of torture.

You're the one using the word "proportionate".

end of the road

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nah you got it all wrong.

Sensational hyperbole is what was fed to us back in March last year with statements such as
"lockdowns will only be here for few weeks"
"lockdowns will save 250,000 lives"
"there will be a V shape recovery"


funny how those statements didnt actually come from poster on boards but rather from the government. They were wrong.

Sensational hyperbole, in hindsight, was clapping for HSE back in April and doing absolutely nothing as student nurses request for pay was declined by the government.

yes, they came from the government based on the evidence available at that time.
the evidence changed, and so did the reaction and everything else.
clapping for the nurses and doctors was a non-issue, you weren't forced to do it.
lets be real, whatever about others, you certainly don't care about the student nurses pay, just using it to push your anti-everything agenda, so you don't really get to castigate others for apparently not caring when it's very clear you actually don't.
stating something based on the evidence available at the time of the making of the statement, evidence which then changes due to further evidence, is not sensational hyperbole.

end of the road

growleaves wrote: »

That's not what he said though. He said he would shut down scum behaviour by any means necessary. For all we know he could be in favour of torture.

You'e the one using the word "proportionate".

doesn't matter what he exactly said, what he meant was quite clear.

the scum were a potential threat to the state via their actions against the upholders of the law.

growleaves

end of the road wrote: »

doesn't matter what he exactly said, what he meant was quite clear.

the scum were a potential threat to the state via their actions against the upholders of the law.

No it wasn't. The only thing that's clear is that he was in favour of potent violence.

"potential threat to the state" - are they going to overthrow the Dutch government next? Such waffle

emeldc

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Couldnt care less. There is a thing called insurance, that is actually required btw.

Nope, it’s optional.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you had a shop in Ireland, you’d never be allowed to open it anyways!

A good looting might get you a decent insurance pay out.

I do have a retail business and I am open. And just like the other lad you’re talking through your hole.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

There have been secret weddings in London.

This one

A wedding attended by about 400 people at a north London school has been broken up by police

No one wonder it was held in secret. :pac:

pjohnson

emeldc wrote: »

Nope, it’s optional.



I do have a retail business and I am open. And just like the other lad you’re talking through your hole.

Whatever you do dont name your business. You'll have some looters rushing to give you "freedom"

copeyhagen

are barbers likely to remain closed until March?

FintanMcluskey

copeyhagen wrote: »

are barbers likely to remain closed until March?

I imagine they will use the same metrics to relax restrictions as last year.

July 2nd for barbers

copeyhagen

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I imagine they will use the same metrics to relax restrictions as last year.

July 2nd for barbers

you forgot the /s Fintan.

gonna butcher my back and sides tonight i think

Ginger n Lemon

end of the road wrote: »

you agreed with the violent protesters so spare us the fo outrage.
sure, you avoided stating that outright but it's extremely obvious.
the other poster on the other hand agrees with proportionate force to neutralize potential threats to the state.

Did I?

I did a good job I suppose :pac:

1st day back.

What are your proposals to deal with the "threats to the state"? - Actually, dont answer :rolleyes:


Most importantly, do you think that government did anything wrong during last 10 months and if yes - what exactly? It would mean a world to me if you could answer this question.

Ginger n Lemon

growleaves wrote: »

No it wasn't. The only thing that's clear is that he was in favour of potent violence.

"potential threat to the state" - are they going to overthrow the Dutch government next? Such waffle

Potentially too much watching of documentaries about French revolution?

I feel like next few posts may mention world war 3 - watch out

Ginger n Lemon

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I imagine they will use the same metrics to relax restrictions as last year.

July 2nd for barbers

Good point. Maybe, hopefully, this whole nonsense hysteria of "some sort of lockdown until June" is akin to that Leo's speech on 1st of May where he wanted barbers closed to 20th of July but thankfully common sense prevailed.

Here is to hoping

PTH2009

Hospitality needs to be opened properly in this 'reopening' not food pubs first (some places serving food from takeaways next door etc) with the time limit and mandatory meal and the non food pubs staying shut for another long period of time

We also have to accept numbers will rise once again and to not hit the bloody panic button

CatalogJinx

Does anyone have any predictions as to the actual HOW we will eventually relax restrictions? I'd be interested to hear what others think who may be slightly more optimistic than me?

What I think needs to happen:
1. NPHET need a yang to their yin. Their brief appears to be cutting the cases as close to zero as possible which, to be fair to them, they kind of do. I'd do the same in their position if cutting cases was my only brief. They need experts from business, education, mental health services, elderly advocates etc to provide a more holistic picture of how this should be managed.
2. We need to stop the daily count, it's creating so much fear and anxiety and it's literally the only show in town.
3. We need strong leadership who will acknowledge that this disease is going nowhere and we need to come to terms that sometimes, even when a load of us have been vaccinated, that some people will get sick with this disease unfortunately.
4. We need to realise that our politicians have about as much of a clue about this as you or I. They are ex-teachers and civil servants who are incredibly out of their depth and relying on the expert advice from NPHET (see point one as to why this is potentially problematic).

Just my thoughts, what do others think the exit strategy will be?

By the way, I think my thoughts will never happen in real life (thank God I hear you say) due to the amount of votes at stake, and potentially lost if anyone dares to deviate from the accepted norm.

BredonWimsey

Deleted User wrote: »

Been watching the presser this evening, journalists assembled are the worst bunch of mumbling eejits I have ever heard. "So, eh, do you think that maybe, uh, this Brazilian variant, ahm, could be, erm, in the community?" Very weak line of questioning that gives Glynn & Nolan ample time to dance around them. Indeed Glynn wormed out of tackling quarantine, "well there have been a series of measures applied and these have been fairly successful..." Disappointing, what happens now is a passing the buck routine. NPHET don't make a clear statement about mandatory quarantine being imposed for high-risk passengers, MM and Leo retort under scrutiny with "we have not been advised to adopt such measures". And round in circles we go with no progress being made. Maddening.

that sarah one challenged them a bit

Silentcorner

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hospitality needs to be opened properly in this 'reopening' not food pubs first (some places serving food from takeaways next door etc) with the time limit and mandatory meal and the non food pubs staying shut for another long period of time

We also have to accept numbers will rise once again and to not hit the bloody panic button

Only twice this year have our ICUs been at max, back in March/April and Dec/Jan during our two surges.

Inbetween these two surges the hospitals have been quiet.

The likelihood of a third surge between now and next winter is remote....clusters yes, cases, yes but all of them manageable.

There is no need to impose massive restrictions on the entire population or shutting down the hospitality industry.

Next winter, our vaccination program should be completed.

It's time to take the boot of the necks of all our citizens.

UDAWINNER

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1353765764273217537

to all the muppets who think it only harms the vunerable, look at the this case:(

Silentcorner

UDAWINNER wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1353765764273217537

to all the muppets who think it only harms the vunerable, look at the this case:(

Who thinks that?

Severe lockdowns harms a lot of people too you know.

So do car crashes.

What the BBC just posted is emotional manipulation.

emeldc

emeldc wrote: »

Nope, it’s optional.



I do have a retail business and I am open. And just like the other lad you’re talking through your hole.

Are you not pro restrictions? Why are you open?

Even if you’re allowed, doesn’t mean you have to.

CatalogJinx

to all the muppets who think it only harms the vunerable, look at the this case:([/quote]


That's extremely tragic. I hate seeing stuff like that.

Luckily I've never actually met any covid deniers who have said it 'only harms the vulnerable'. I've met reasonable people though who are able to analyse statistics and actual numbers for themselves who will acknowledge that it's statistically very unlikely that if you are not elderly, or vulnerable, then chances are you'll be grand. And even if you are elderly, you've got a pretty good chance with covid too.

What's the angle with BBC twitter posting that by the way? You'd almost think they wanted to stir fear and have people think that healthy middle aged men are dropping from this all day everyday. My common sense screams at me when I see things like that telling me that "of course institutions and governments want restrictions to end, it's in their interest for them to end" but by the way they are behaving at the moment, and throughout this, you'd nearly start to believe they want this to go on (I know they don't).

Kunta Kinte

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Good point. Maybe, hopefully, this whole nonsense hysteria of "some sort of lockdown until June" is akin to that Leo's speech on 1st of May where he wanted barbers closed to 20th of July but thankfully common sense prevailed.

Here is to hoping

Yes and despite your constant caterwauling about the Irish hospitality sector not reopening soon enough you flew off on a foreign holiday last summer instead of staying in Ireland and supporting it. So you can drop your fake concern act old buddy.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Who thinks that?

Severe lockdowns harms a lot of people too you know.

So do car crashes.

What the BBC just posted is emotional manipulation.

Maybe we need high-quality productions with sad music featuring the families of people lost to suicide during lockdowns, or murdered by the violent partner they couldn't get away from, or being told their formerly treatable cancer is now terminal.

Tenzor07

No easing of restrictions due anytime soon... another 5 weeks or so of this:


https://www.thejournal.ie/mandatory-quarantine-cabinet-5334987-Jan2021/

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

The PCR test “is unable to determine, beyond reasonable doubt, that a positive result corresponds, in fact, to the infection of a person by the SARS-CoV-2 virus”, said the Lisbon Court of Appeal.

The judges concluded by stating that: “The problem is that this reliability is shown, in terms of scientific evidence (and in this field, the judge will have to rely on the knowledge of experts in the field), as being more than debatable.

“Thus, with so many scientific doubts, expressed by experts in the field, which are the ones that matter here, as to the reliability of such tests, ignoring the parameters of their performance and there being no diagnosis made by a doctor, in the sense of existence of infection and risk, it would never be possible for this court to determine that C ... had the SARS-CoV-2 virus, nor that A., B ... and D ... had high risk exposure,” concluded the judgement in relation to the case which has ultimately calls into question the reliability of the tests.

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2020-11-27/covid-pcr-test-reliability-doubtful-portugal-judges/56962

Nothing to simplify.

PS note its courts of Appeal.

These desperate desperate scientists pursuing science that they cant clearly prove or show.

Lawyers

Richard Hillman

There is no justification of keeping level 5 restrictions after January. We are down to 1000 cases a day. The health service managed at 7-8000 a day. The over 80s are getting vaccinated. There is no justification beyond the next couple of weeks.

prunudo

Tenzor07 wrote: »

No easing of restrictions due anytime soon... another 5 weeks or so of this:


https://www.thejournal.ie/mandatory-quarantine-cabinet-5334987-Jan2021/

I don't understand why outdoor work needs to be kept closed for another 5 weeks. It remained open in October when cases peaked at 1300 and we entered level 5.

FintanMcluskey

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There is no justification of keeping level 5 restrictions after January. We are down to 1000 cases a day. The health service managed at 7-8000 a day. The over 80s are getting vaccinated. There is no justification beyond the next couple of weeks.

That’s the common sense approach Richard.

Did you see any common sense being used to relax restrictions before in Ireland

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Make no mistake, anti restrictions demonstrators are far left.

The cleverest thing the media did was convince the world they were far right.

The cleverest thing the far right have done is convince a demographic, that otherwise should be drawn to the left, that their populist rhetoric somehow aligns with the needs of the ordinary citizens

Ha Long Bay

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That’s the common sense approach Richard.

Did you see any common sense being used to relax restrictions before in Ireland

Would common sense not also include factoring in that hospital's and ICU's are currently pretty full and not just concentrating on case numbers as a basis to relax restrictions?