Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I never said level 5 restrictions will go on years and years. I expect that level to be well over by the summer.

Some restrictions and/or mandates on masks etc will remain for quite a while.

There are no games. It's the reality of the situation the world is in that there is going to be different levels of restrictions depending on the circumstances of the virus in that region.

So let it rip by Summer?

What about all the dead people

Silentcorner

kilns wrote: »

With freedom comes personal responsibility and you have clearly shown you lack the personal responsibility to act in the best interests of the country as a whole, like many Irish as I said, they are selfish people.

If people acted responsible and take their own personl precautions I am sure Ireland would not be locked down so tight but some people are like 2 year olds and dont have that self control which ruins it for everyone else

Wow....again, listen to yourself,

Sweden took the personal precaution route, we didn't, we took the fear and control route...in time, we will see just how disastrous that is, and we won't have to wait long, unemployment could tip 30% this year...mental health issues are off the charts, many people who were perfectly healthy this time last year are now in a very precarious place on account of Government Action....cancer deaths and heart disease (the biggest killers in this country) are going to increase by a

The country is being split into two very different groups

One group can only see Covid, experts on mutations, variants etc....love the lockdowns...think therer is no other solution.

The other group are looking at the collective damage that is being done beyond Covid....looking at countries who haven't locked down and see more or less similar results with a fraction of the pain.

Guess which group the media and politicians fall into!!!

timmyntc

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Will you go away out of that with your common sense.

"Personal responsibility"? lol. These boardsies are seeking love and support. It's a cry for help in my considered opinion.

I'd wager that most of those people in hospital or ICU had personal responsibility too - the virus doesnt care about how responsible you think you are - short of cocooning yourself indoors indefinitely, you are at some risk of catching covid.

Over christmas people were legally allowed to go and meet and shop and drink - the government endorsed this message. Obeying the government rules on socialising sounds pretty "responsible" to me.

It is a pathetic attempt to deflect, to try and blame this on irresponsible people - anything to avoid criticising your precious government.
How does that boot taste Kermit?

kilns

timmyntc wrote: »

Rights are absolute - they cannot be taken away, and there are no terms & conditions. If they can be taken away - then you never had that freedom in the first place, just the illusion of same.

So what is your solution for the irresponsible people like some posters on here who`s lack of care and selfishness would spread the virus while those who are responsible members of society who can take their own personal precautions have to suffer.

If Ireland had a society which was less selfish people could go about their daily lives more freely but with precautions but unfortunately, going to house parties drinking cans etc and then going back to their families is not one

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So let it rip by Summer?

What about all the dead people

We'll be level 4 for summer in my opinion so not radically different. Only if really good progress is made in the next few weeks, which is still possible, can I see level 3 being an option.

FintanMcluskey

RGS wrote: »

We are a year into this virus and the only tactic is level 5 lockdown--They threw out the "living with Covid" plan an hour after it was published.

We have 40 members of NPHET, 15 cabinet members and 2 advisors per minister (85 people in total) on combined salaries of approx. €12M and this is their best tactical approach.

It is clear we are building up serious problems economically for our children & grandchildren and more importantly serious health problems in the next 2/3 years with undiagnosed cancers, treatable cancers becoming terminal and possibility obesity in our teenagers from lack of sport.

Kids who would have continue with sports even though they may not be totally immersed in the sport, will have no incentive to return having lost nearly a year of training, games and fun.

We have to find a way to get activities going again. We pay these minister enough money to come up with solutions.

NPHET’s advice summarised

High case numbers = severe lockdown

Low case numbers = severe lockdown

Silentcorner

We have been ruthlessly conditioned into believing it is dangerous for us to visit our parents.

That took a whole lot of hysteria using our deeply held fear of death against us....stay at home, save granny!!!

The problem with the lockdown lovers, there is ample evidence that they are not effective....the WHO was right, they should only be used as a last resort, we are using it as our only resort.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I was clearly referring to the other people coming on here and saying how they had adhered all along, but after latest announcement, they're now finished.

And yes, I have always made my own risk assessment re: the Covid situation. Nothing will change in that regard.

Have a good Friday, Mr. Boggles, and everyone else. I'm off to enjoy the fine weather. *grabs umbrella*

Not all heroes wear capes, some have umbrellas.

Have a good one.

timmyntc

kilns wrote: »

So what is your solution for the irresponsible people like some posters on here who`s lack of care and selfishness would spread the virus while those who are responsible members of society who can take their own personal precautions have to suffer.

If Ireland had a society which was less selfish people could go about their daily lives more freely but with precautions but unfortunately, going to house parties drinking cans etc and then going back to their families is not one

Expand ICU facilities, implement a proper track & trace system (one that actually looked at contacts earlier than the last 48hrs?) - you know, the things we pay the government and health service to do?

They had a near unlimited budget, a blank cheque, and yet they couldnt accomplish *any* of this. Their only tool was a sledgehammer of total lockdown of the economy.

But the worst part is how little people in this county (people like you) hold the government responsible. They messed up in times of crisis - their goal is to lead on our behalf, and they totally failed.

Idbatterim

hoard money for when **** hits the fan lads! Secondly if those fools, actually told us the numbers we need to get too, for certain restrictions to ease, you would have far more collective buy in and "team spirit". The nonsense of "concern" and we need to get the numbers down, dont tell us anything we dont know. People are fed up of the virus and they are fed up of the fools in nphet and politicians.

SusieBlue

kilns wrote: »

With freedom comes personal responsibility and you have clearly shown you lack the personal responsibility to act in the best interests of the country as a whole, like many Irish as I said, they are selfish people.

If people acted responsible and take their own personl precautions I am sure Ireland would not be locked down so tight but some people are like 2 year olds and dont have that self control which ruins it for everyone else

Your comments would be fair if we were two weeks into this but a whole year has passed, and we have nothing but another 3 months+ of heavy lockdown to look forward to.
People have sacrificed a huge amount over the last year and there is only so much they can take.
You can’t curtail personal freedoms, limit movement, keep half a million people out of work and isolate people from their family and friends for 12 months and not expect to see some push back eventually.

You talk as if people are robots. It is absolutely not selfish to want to spend time with your loved ones after 8 weeks of not seeing them and a whole year of not being allowed to see them for months at a time.

Kermit.de.frog

Silentcorner wrote: »

stay at home, save granny!!!

This.....is a great idea for a billboard heading toward the summer

Idbatterim

ShyMets wrote: »

Just Hold firm. Two more weeks. Put on the Green jersey. Stay safe. In this together. Stay at Home.

Think I've covered of most of the clichés

Bang on! Reality... "stay safe" "in this together" "hold firm" "eight more months sorry eight more weeks of this"

All in this together, imagine asking people to start paying for this now, the cost of it, see what buy in you would have. Of course the politicians will try and navigate this first, then deal with the fall out. But when you know where this is headed, its pure idiocy...

Its a real shame they had the easy option of borrowing tens of billions , they would have had to properly problem solve, if this wasnt an option. Pity they will be able to borrow enough, to bring the entire **** crashing down too... because it just wastes months and end result financially is worse

malinheader

They are blaming the extended lockdown on the UK strain being around 90% of the covid cases in the country now.
If the south African strain gets a grip here I suspect we will be locked down for good.

kilns

Silentcorner wrote: »

Wow....again, listen to yourself,

Sweden took the personal precaution route, we didn't, we took the fear and control route...in time, we will see just how disastrous that is, and we won't have to wait long, unemployment could tip 30% this year...mental health issues are off the charts, many people who were perfectly healthy this time last year are now in a very precarious place on account of Government Action....cancer deaths and heart disease (the biggest killers in this country) are going to increase by a

The country is being split into two very different groups

One group can only see Covid, experts on mutations, variants etc....love the lockdowns...think therer is no other solution.

The other group are looking at the collective damage that is being done beyond Covid....looking at countries who haven't locked down and see more or less similar results with a fraction of the pain.

Guess which group the media and politicians fall into!!!

I am Irish but I live in Switzerland. In general it has a very responsible population. For example, recently a public vote was held to increase the number of working holidays by 5 per year. It was overwhelmingly defeated as most agreed it would affect productivity. Imagine the same scenario in Ireland.

Since January, Switzerland has been locked down mostly, with the exception of schools remained open, essential shops open and ski resorts open too. Our cases are 1026 on average for the last 7 days (double the population of Ireland and more densely populated). However on March 1st, the country will begin to reopen with all outdoor areas open from Zoos, Musuems etc and from April 1st restaurants will open too.

The reason this is possible is because they mostly adhere to the rules in place and also take their own precautions. The country can begin to open up because they know things will not spread quickly as people will stay remain cautious.

Of course there are bad apples everywhere who cannot play by the rules but Irish people seem to have a large large number of these people.

I for one am looking forward to driving to Italy in May for a holiday

timmyntc

malinheader wrote: »

They are blaming the extended lockdown on the UK strain being around 90% of the covid cases in the country now.
If the south African strain gets a grip here I suspect we will be locked down for good.

The reality is they have managed things woefully, and as a result compliance is down. It is never going up again.

Most people are not afraid of the virus, and they could not care less about the governments messaging anymore. Any goodwill that was there is long gone.

We will never see sub 100 cases - it will plateau long before then.

kilns

SusieBlue wrote: »

Your comments would be fair if we were two weeks into this but a whole year has passed, and we have nothing but another 3 months+ of heavy lockdown to look forward to.
People have sacrificed a huge amount over the last year and there is only so much they can take.
You can’t curtail personal freedoms, limit movement, keep half a million people out of work and isolate people from their family and friends for 12 months and not expect to see some push back eventually.

You talk as if people are robots. It is absolutely not selfish to want to spend time with your loved ones after 8 weeks of not seeing them and a whole year of not being allowed to see them for months at a time.

I agree but the point I am making is that it is certain people who ruin for everyone else, who will organise big house parties etc and say fcuk the precautions that ruin it for the normal every day person

growleaves

kilns wrote: »

I for one am looking forward to driving to Italy in May for a holiday

Lol you're some man for one man :pac:

Claims Irish people shouldn't have freedom. Enjoys freedom and takes a nice holiday to Italy

Idbatterim

kilns wrote: »

I am Irish but I live in Switzerland. In general it has a very responsible population. For example, recently a public vote was held to increase the number of working holidays by 5 per year. It was overwhelmingly defeated as most agreed it would affect productivity. Imagine the same scenario in Ireland.

Since January, Switzerland has been locked down mostly, with the exception of schools remained open, essential shops open and ski resorts open too. Our cases are 1026 on average for the last 7 days (double the population of Ireland and more densely populated). However on March 1st, the country will begin to reopen with all outdoor areas open from Zoos, Musuems etc and from April 1st restaurants will open too.

The reason this is possible is because they mostly adhere to the rules in place and also take their own precautions. The country can begin to open up because they know things will not spread quickly as people will stay remain cautious.

Of course there are bad apples everywhere who cannot play by the rules but Irish people seem to have a large large number of these people.

I for one am looking forward to driving to Italy in May for a holiday

interesting. Can I ask, is there a proper plan in place? is the buy in from the public, because they have far more faith in their system and politicians or do they have proper benchmarks , for when cases fall to X, Y and Z reopen?

timmyntc

kilns wrote: »

I agree but the point I am making is that it is certain people who ruin for everyone else, who will organise big house parties etc and say fcuk the precautions that ruin it for the normal every day person

Those people exist in every country - but when you have been in total lockdown for months at a time with no end in sight, why wouldnt you break the rules? The very reason compliance is so poor lately, is because we have had such tough restrictions - people have had enough.

The idea that the Swiss are so much more responsible is a load of tripe

bettyoleary

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have been ruthlessly conditioned into believing it is dangerous for us to visit our parents.

That took a whole lot of hysteria using our deeply held fear of death against us....stay at home, save granny!!!

The problem with the lockdown lovers, there is ample evidence that they are not effective....the WHO was right, they should only be used as a last resort, we are using it as our only resort.

If you have a parent in a nursing home go and demand to take them out for the day and visit. You just cant go in but theres nothing stopping you taking them out. Perhaps they really shouldnt be there anyway.

kilns

kilns wrote: »

So what is your solution for the irresponsible people like some posters on here who`s lack of care and selfishness would spread the virus while those who are responsible members of society who can take their own personal precautions have to suffer.

If Ireland had a society which was less selfish people could go about their daily lives more freely but with precautions but unfortunately, going to house parties drinking cans etc and then going back to their families is not one

People can control their own risk by staying home without everyone being mandated to.

Idbatterim

timmyntc wrote: »

The reality is they have managed things woefully, and as a result compliance is down. It is never going up again.

Most people are not afraid of the virus, and they could not care less about the governments messaging anymore. Any goodwill that was there is long gone.

We will never see sub 100 cases - it will plateau long before then.

was in supervalu yesterday, people on top of each other, the only difference to pre covid is, they are wearing a mask... this is mostly younger people, but many are totally over this crap!

kilns

growleaves wrote: »

Lol you're some man for one man :pac:

Claims Irish people shouldn't have freedom. Enjoys freedom and takes a nice holiday to Italy

Did you read what I wrote?

Its all about a responsible society and unfortunately Ireland has a huge amount of irresponsible people. Probably the same people who protested over paying for Water.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Do you worry about the people you are harming by lending your support to multi-year severe lockdowns?

Why would you expect me to worry about people who don't return the favour? In fact, go so far as posting they are only concerned with themselves?

Bit of a double standard, in my view.

kilns

Deleted User wrote: »

People can control their own risk by staying home without everyone being mandated to.

I wish that were true but as some posters here have demostrated that is not the case and they are the kind of people I have issue with

hamburgham

If ever you needed an example of how the media manage a story to suit their agenda.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/twelve-elderly-patients-who-died-after-vaccine-had-other-conditions-1.4488873

Story on front of Irish Times now, "Twelve elderly patients who died after vaccine had other conditions". When is it EVER in the headline that someone who died with covid had other conditions, often multiple conditions ?


They can say this about the vaccine but not after a death with covid.
" it is not considered that the vaccine played a contributory role in these events,” the HPRA said in its latest safety update on Covid-19 vaccines.

“It can be expected that fatalities due to progression of underlying disease or natural causes will continue to occur, including following vaccination. However, this does not meant that the deaths were caused by the vaccine."

bettyoleary

bettyoleary wrote: »

If you have a parent in a nursing home go and demand to take them out for the day and visit. You just cant go in but theres nothing stopping you taking them out. Perhaps they really shouldnt be there anyway.

Just saying like!!! I wouldnt be putting my mum in a nursing home or leaving her in times of covid if it meant I didnt have a penny. Thats just me though. I wouldnt be demanding to put staff and residents at risk to sooth my guilt:)

kilns

timmyntc wrote: »

Those people exist in every country - but when you have been in total lockdown for months at a time with no end in sight, why wouldnt you break the rules? The very reason compliance is so poor lately, is because we have had such tough restrictions - people have had enough.

The idea that the Swiss are so much more responsible is a load of tripe

I just gave you a prime example

and yes the vast majority are a much more responsible society than Ireland, you just have to look at simple things like crime and littering even

timmyntc

Idbatterim wrote: »

was in supervalu yesterday, people on top of each other, the only difference to pre covid is, they are wearing a mask... this is mostly younger people, but many are totally over this crap!

Can you blame them?

There are several vaccines approved and on the way, and yet our government have not even committed to relaxing of restrictions! The talk is all doom and gloom despite the fact we have vaccines, some with 90%+ efficiency, and are literally administering them as we speak.

Once we have the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated the hospital admissions will plummet and there is no reason not to open things up.