Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

SusieBlue

gozunda wrote: »

We are little more than a month out from having the highest rates of infection in the world.

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

'But fuk it I haven't seen my friends since Christmas' ...

I mean what could possibly go wrong ...

:rolleyes:

This has already been discussed ad nauseam.
The government opened up in December as much to save their own skins as they did to give the people a break. They knew that whether they lifted the restrictions or not, people were still going to mix and mingle.
When MM promised that the 6 week ‘circuit breaker’ (and 3 weeks of level 3.5 before that) would save Christmas and allow us to spend some meaningful time with our families, he couldn’t go back on that without looking weak.
It would have been political suicide to cancel Christmas after making a promise like that.
All that pre Christmas lockdown did was cause huge demand for pretty much everything by the time December rolled around.
We were barely a day back into level 3 when they started warning us that returning to level 5 was imminent again, meaning people made the most of the brief period of respite.

People aren’t robots and human nature must be accounted for. What happened at Christmas is not remotely surprising considering the way it was handled.

kilns

The Government have been a shambles on this, hard to find many governments who have actually done a good job (NZ, Taiwan perhaps)

Level 5 was necessary but now its time to put the onus on the Irish people and reduce the restrictions to allow society to breath.

However, if it fails and cases sky rocket again then there is no one else to blame but the Irish people

That would be my political strategy

aziz

timmyntc wrote: »

Everything you do in life is a risk you know - simply living your life is a risk.

The idea that we should all be as risk averse as possible is stupid. I'd hate to see what exciting things a risk averse person as yourself gets up to.

Has anyone done a risk assessment on reopening,I know some government departments were very big on them😄

timmyntc

kilns wrote: »

The Government have been a shambles on this, hard to find many governments who have actually done a good job (NZ, Taiwan perhaps)

Level 5 was necessary but now its time to put the onus on the Irish people and reduce the restrictions to allow society to breath.

However, if it fails and cases sky rocket again then there is no one else to blame but the Irish people

That would be my political strategy

Not a very good one.
Population management is just one of the things the government has to do in a crisis. There was pent up demand for social activity and shopping and all sorts, due to the months of lockdown prior to christmas.

The government dropped the ball - if they relaxed restrictions earlier (or kept hairdresses, shops, outdoor dining open throughout) then there wouldnt have been such a pent up demand, and over christmas there would not have been such uncontrolled spread.

SushiLover31

Is there anywhere to go for people to lobby government about this issue? It seems the majority think we should be lifting restrictions somewhat, but I don't see this opinion being represented anywhere but here.

francogarbanzo

kilns wrote: »

The Government have been a shambles on this, hard to find many governments who have actually done a good job (NZ, Taiwan perhaps)

Level 5 was necessary but now its time to put the onus on the Irish people and reduce the restrictions to allow society to breath.

However, if it fails and cases sky rocket again then there is no one else to blame but the Irish people

That would be my political strategy

This may be the idea with this 9-week leak. Tell people we're about to have the longest extension we've ever had (don't quote me on this, but I think it's the case.) Gin up anger in the public (already seeing a massive change in attitude in many places online.) Start re-opening with a "the people have spoken" spin. Cases rise as they always will no matter when or how we re-open. Abdicate responsibility totally.

Boggles

timmyntc wrote: »

Not a very good one.
Population management is just one of the things the government has to do in a crisis. There was pent up demand for social activity and shopping and all sorts, due to the months of lockdown prior to christmas.

The government dropped the ball - if they relaxed restrictions earlier (or kept hairdresses, shops, outdoor dining open throughout) then there wouldnt have been such a pent up demand, and over christmas there would not have been such uncontrolled spread.

If we had relaxed restrictions earlier, the UK strain would have become dominant earlier and much like the UK, Christmas would have been "cancelled".

SushiLover31

Is there anywhere to go for people to lobby government about this issue? It seems the majority think we should be lifting restrictions somewhat, but I don't see this opinion being represented anywhere but here.

timmyntc

SushiLover31 wrote: »

Is there anywhere to go for people to lobby government about this issue? It seems the majority think we should be lifting restrictions somewhat, but I don't see this opinion being represented anywhere but here.

Most people are apathetic. They arent abiding by restrictions because they just dont care. They dont care enough to protest or anything - but we can see it in the compliance numbers

gozunda

timmyntc wrote: »

Hmm.. maybe, just maybe, theres some connection between the months of tough restrictions before christmas - and all the socialising people did once restrictions were lifted (at christmas)? :

Hmm ...and the months of restrictions before Christmas in order that people could have a "meaningful' Christmas" ...

Are you seeing a pattern here at all? :

How about some let off demanding the right to party and we can get off the roller coaster a bit earlier?

Borrowed this lad :pac: reckon he's better off here

kilns

francogarbanzo wrote: »

This may be the idea with this 9-week leak. Tell people we're about to have the longest extension we've ever had (don't quote me on this, but I think it's the case.) Gin up anger in the public (already seeing a massive change in attitude in many places online.) Start re-opening with a "the people have spoken" spin. Cases rise as they always will no matter when or how we re-open. Abdicate responsibility totally.

It does seem like the "political" way..

SAMTALK

C__MC wrote: »

The majority of Irish people are puppets controlled and in a fear of an awful government
If they were told to go the Dingle to look for Fungi by MM, they would

These kind of statements don't bring anything to the argument.

The flip side to that is the majority of Irish People are trying to do the right thing and trying to do their bit for our society maybe ?

And silly you the majority of people know they can't go to dingle as its outside the 5k !

timmyntc

gozunda wrote: »

Hmm ...and the months of restrictions before Christmas in order that people could have a "meaningful' Christmas" ...

Are you seeing a pattern here at all? :

How about some let off demanding the right to party and we can get off the roller coaster a bit earlier?

Borrowed this lad :pac: reckon he's better off here

I think you've just accidentally agreed with me :pac:

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So when do you think it is appropriate to reopen? The virus isn't going away. Considering the statistics/data, surely you'd agree that once the elderly and medically vulnerable are vaccinated, we'll have to simply get on with it and "live with the virus"?

Yes. With some management due to risk of hospitalisation in under 65s which is still significant, back towards a level 2 by May should be on the cards. Then once we get towards half the population vaccinated even moreso.

wakka12

Silentcorner wrote: »

Not a single country in this part of the world have avoided a winter surge, no matter what the restrictions.

These lockdown advocates think we should have stayed in level 5 right through from the 3rd week in Oct to May it seems....utterly psychotic stuff.

No matter when we opened, no matter what we did, we were getting a winter surge.

They have, Finland and Norway have not had any surge, winter, spring, summer or autumn

growleaves

SAMTALK wrote: »

These kind of statements don't bring anything to the argument.

The flip side to that is the majority of Irish People are trying to do the right thing and trying to do their bit for our society maybe ?

And silly you the majority of people know they can't go to dingle as its outside the 5k !

Looking for Fungie is considered an essential activity.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Hooked wrote: »

I'll be fully back to normal again tomorrow... watching Liverpool vs Everton with the lads having a few beers... We're all in our 40's and able to decide for ourselves with regards to taking calculated risks with a flu-like virus, which has a 99.91% survival rate (in IRELAND) with under 65's.

Joseph Goebbels (Mr. Nazi propaganda) was asked at the Nuremberg trials:
"how did you dupe so many Germans", to which he replied: "it's amazing what you can get people to do when they are in a state of true fear"

Which is great for you , however other people's normal involves , going to matches,golf , kids sports , pubs , restaurants , holidays ,visiting vulnerable relatives . None of this is possible at the minute regardless of whether an individual wants to or not . The more that people "bend the rules" to suit themselves the longer it will be before we get those things back .

dalyboy

The straw has broken the camels back in my family following the reptilian like tactic of a 10pm announcement of further 9 weeks on a tabloid toilet paper rag.

Following a conversation with my parents this morning I’m packing my kids into the car tomorrow and travelling a 10km distance to their house for a few nights.

It’s as simple as this . If I’m to continue isolating my kids , myself & O.H , & my parents we will be mentally end up unhinged by 9 weeks.

I was originally going to await my parents vaccinations (early 70’s) but that’ll take till about July at this point.
NO WAY HOSEY am I waiting any longer now

As mature and responsible adults we have tallied up the risk (Zero risk since nobody has left their respective houses since end of December, save for daily walks in parks and accepting supermarket food delivery at the front doors) and reward.

When I read that article last night I almost got sick with that smiling face and pompous pose on Martin staring out at me.
Something had to give , and it did.

I’ve a responsibility as a parent , a partner, an off spring and business owner to ensure that sense and balance is applied to operate my families lives in a liveable fashion so thank you Mr Martin for motivating me with your expose on the mirror paper. I feel so much better today for committing to changing things to the better our way NOT YOUR WAY

Tork

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

You lose credit for thinking that Ireland with a population of 4,900,000 million should be locked up when the average age of death from Corona is 83, .

750 in hospital, 150 in ICU and vacinnes been rolled but should keep everything shut.

People are suffering big time, education, finances, mental health

Wow, talk about projection.

Hooked

gozunda wrote: »

We are little more than a month out from having the highest rates of infection in the world.

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

'But fuk it I haven't seen my friends since Christmas' ...

I mean what could possibly go wrong ...

:rolleyes:

Household visits at Xmas, me arse! The rise in cases is because we IMPORTED the now 90%+ confirmed cases of the UK strain (since Xmas)... and also Jan/Feb are traditionally flu season.

gozunda

SusieBlue wrote: »

This has already been discussed ad nauseam.
The government opened up in December as much to save their own skins as they did to give the people a break. They knew that whether they lifted the restrictions or not, people were still going to mix and mingle.
When MM promised that the 6 week ‘circuit breaker’ (and 3 weeks of level 3.5 before that) would save Christmas and allow us to spend some meaningful time with our families, he couldn’t go back on that without looking weak.
It would have been political suicide to cancel Christmas after making a promise like that.
All that pre Christmas lockdown did was cause huge demand for pretty much everything by the time December rolled around.
We were barely a day back into level 3 when they started warning us that returning to level 5 was imminent again, meaning people made the most of the brief period of respite.

People aren’t robots and human nature must be accounted for. What happened at Christmas is not remotely surprising considering the way it was handled.

Has it? Then why do we have some eejits claiming no one has been able to see anyone in a year? Or that they need to be allowed go travelling etc etc . despite the "meaningful Christmas" :rolleyes:

But what you're saying we're fuked no matter what the Government does because "human nature must be accounted for" and some peoples right to party or meet up with friends or whatever ?

But yes all because of the pressure from people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties were lifted - we're now shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down.

But fuk that we need another break. What could possibly go wrong again?

C.O.Y.B.I.B

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Which is great for you , however other people's normal involves , going to matches,golf , kids sports , pubs , restaurants , holidays ,visiting vulnerable relatives . None of this is possible at the minute regardless of whether an individual wants to or not . The more that people "bend the rules" to suit themselves the longer it will be before we get those things back .

To add to this , for me it's not about the death rate . Im also in my 40s and have no doubt Covid wouldnt kill me if I got , but a fit and healthy friend of mine who had Covid at Christmas still struggles and is out of breath walking up a flight of stairs . I'm all for lifting restrictions sensibly but I'm not willing to risk my health for the sake of a few cans .

Parachutes

dalyboy wrote: »

The straw has broken the camels back in my family following the reptilian like tactic of a 10pm announcement of further 9 weeks on a tabloid toilet paper rag.

Following a conversation with my parents this morning I’m packing my kids into the car tomorrow and travelling a 10km distance to their house for a few nights.

It’s as simple as this . If I’m to continue isolating my kids , myself & O.H , & my parents we will be mentally end up unhinged by 9 weeks.

I was originally going to await my parents vaccinations (early 70’s) but that’ll take till about July at this point.
NO WAY HOSEY am I waiting any longer now

As mature and responsible adults we have tallied up the risk (Zero risk since nobody has left their respective houses since end of December, save for daily walks in parks and accepting supermarket food delivery at the front doors) and reward.

When I read that article last night I almost got sick with that smiling face and pompous pose on Martin staring out at me.
Something had to give , and it did.

I’ve a responsibility as a parent , a partner, an off spring and business owner to ensure that sense and balance is applied to operate my families lives in a liveable fashion so thank you Mr Martin for motivating me with your expose on the mirror paper. I feel so much better today for committing to changing things to the better our way NOT YOUR WAY

Good on you and **** anyone who says otherwise.

Boggles

dalyboy wrote: »

The straw has broken the camels back in my family following the reptilian like tactic of a 10pm announcement of further 9 weeks on a tabloid toilet paper rag.

Following a conversation with my parents this morning I’m packing my kids into the car tomorrow and travelling a 10km distance to their house for a few nights.

It’s as simple as this . If I’m to continue isolating my kids , myself & O.H , & my parents we will be mentally end up unhinged by 9 weeks.

I was originally going to await my parents vaccinations (early 70’s) but that’ll take till about July at this point.
NO WAY HOSEY am I waiting any longer now

As mature and responsible adults we have tallied up the risk (Zero risk since nobody has left their respective houses since end of December, save for daily walks in parks and accepting supermarket food delivery at the front doors) and reward.

When I read that article last night I almost got sick with that smiling face and pompous pose on Martin staring out at me.
Something had to give , and it did.

I’ve a responsibility as a parent , a partner, an off spring and business owner to ensure that sense and balance is applied to operate my families lives in a liveable fashion so thank you Mr Martin for motivating me with your expose on the mirror paper. I feel so much better today for committing to changing things to the better our way NOT YOUR WAY

Sure if ye haven't left yer houses in months and they only live 10km, why wouldn't ye bubble up with them?

The restrictions are not for people like ye, self imposed level 6'rs.

Ye are not the worry.

Frankly I'm surprised it's taken you this long.

Enjoy.

Bigfatmichael

bettyoleary wrote: »

Yes but by this time it should have sunk in to the thickest head it isnt safe to do this. Therefore, no matter what the govt said , it was peoples own choices and they choose to do what suited them and risk lives. As a result lots of people lost their lives. Its unfortunate that we have people who will always do what suits them without a care for anyone else. But, luckily we have people who wont and this will always be our saving grace.

So the government have been 100% spot on with everything they have done?

Hooked

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Which is great for you , however other people's normal involves , going to matches,golf , kids sports , pubs , restaurants , holidays ,visiting vulnerable relatives . None of this is possible at the minute regardless of whether an individual wants to or not . The more that people "bend the rules" to suit themselves the longer it will be before we get those things back .

Everything BAR the bit in bold, IMO, should be possible!

99.91% of deaths are in the over 65's!!!

This one size fits all approach MUST end soon!

gozunda

Hooked wrote: »

Household visits at Xmas, me arse! The rise in cases is because we IMPORTED the now 90%+ confirmed cases of the UK strain (since Xmas)... and also Jan/Feb are traditionally flu season.

You must have missed this bit

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

And how do you think that strain got into houses other than people mixing and flying in and out?

Maybe it was Santa Clause who brought it?

C.O.Y.B.I.B

dalyboy wrote: »

The straw has broken the camels back in my family following the reptilian like tactic of a 10pm announcement of further 9 weeks on a tabloid toilet paper rag.

Following a conversation with my parents this morning I’m packing my kids into the car tomorrow and travelling a 10km distance to their house for a few nights.

It’s as simple as this . If I’m to continue isolating my kids , myself & O.H , & my parents we will be mentally end up unhinged by 9 weeks.

I was originally going to await my parents vaccinations (early 70’s) but that’ll take till about July at this point.
NO WAY HOSEY am I waiting any longer now

As mature and responsible adults we have tallied up the risk (Zero risk since nobody has left their respective houses since end of December, save for daily walks in parks and accepting supermarket food delivery at the front doors) and reward.

When I read that article last night I almost got sick with that smiling face and pompous pose on Martin staring out at me.
Something had to give , and it did.

I’ve a responsibility as a parent , a partner, an off spring and business owner to ensure that sense and balance is applied to operate my families lives in a liveable fashion so thank you Mr Martin for motivating me with your expose on the mirror paper. I feel so much better today for committing to changing things to the better our way NOT YOUR WAY

This is common sense and the restrictions aren't there for "sensible people" because you can use your own judgement and do whats safe for your family.
I sacrificed a number of "allowed" nights out pre Christmas so that I could safely visit family at Christmas without putting them at risk .

gozunda

timmyntc wrote: »

I think you've just accidentally agreed with me :pac:

I think you really need to read that again:D

C.O.Y.B.I.B

Hooked wrote: »

Everything BAR the bit in bold, IMO, should be possible!

99.91% of deaths are in the over 65's!!!

This one size fits all approach MUST end soon!

I fully agree with you it should be possible , but the fact is , it's not and won't be until restrictions are lifted . Unlike watching football with the lads , none of my list is possible until the government say it is and that won't be until numbers come down.
Where we were in June/July should have been sustainable .