Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

...............

Once people read into the actual figures and worked it out we are on trajectory to where we were last summer with low case numbers and lower restrictions. Obviously the new strain and higher transmissibility may complicate that and hence why not trowing the baby out with all the bathwater. ......

Indeed, come June we should be in a good position.
Without vaccines we were fnkced and the AZ one won't be as much for us really compared to what was hoped initially.

robbiezero

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Very hard to take this morning.

To be honest. I’ve never stopped visiting my parents or in laws throughout. I’m WFH so never go anywhere. But I haven’t been meeting friends. Going forward I’ll be meeting them outside for exercise, may even have a few pints watching a match or something.

There are more dangerous things in life than this virus.

If its the worst thing to happen to this country in this century, I'd take it

gozunda

RobitTV wrote: »

Some quotes from the Irish Independent article:

No meeting outdoors or travel further than 5km until May under new plan

The country is facing into at least 10 more weeks of lockdown

Three ministers who attended the meeting insisted there will be no easing of restrictions until May

Ministers said the Government will consider easing the 5km travel ban and people may also be permitted to meet outdoors if the virus is under control in MAY.

Happy Saturday everyone! .. hold firm....

God you love your newspaper headlines and bona-fide "LEAKS". The independent and its sensationalised headlines :pac:

OK so here's one headline you obviously missed

Varadkar: Taoiseach did not say Level 5 would last until May

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40230062.html

Meanwhile in the real world. The good news is that the infection rates looks like to be going in the right direction although the rate has slowed somewhat but is decreasing.

From January when Ireland had the highest infection rate in the world - that has come down significantly. with May being the most likely date when thats right down. The vaccination program is ongoing and is making progress.

Happy now?

Doctor Jimbob

Graham wrote: »

Sounds logical if we ignore any long-term effects of covid and the potential for new mutations.

Other countries have less severe restrictions and don't seem to be descending into apocalyptic wastelands full of new mutations.

I don't think we should be opening up entirely or anything close to it. But maybe we could get rid of the 5km restriction and let people meet outside sometime before the summer?

thebaz

So the Government through the compliant media warn that we are not allowed to meet up outside until May - thats 2 and half months away -

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-meeting-in-groups-outdoors-or-travel-further-than-5km-until-may-under-new-plan-40111982.html

Meanwhile the Guardian and British scientists admit last summer Fear about crowded beaches was all wrong and the virus doesnt really spread outside , unless you are extremly close :-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/how-the-beach-super-spreader-myth-can-inform-uks-future-covid-response

What is going on , where is our leadership in leading us to live with the virus , where is our investigate journalism ? - the virus spreads in stuffy indoor enclosures , we should be encouraged to go outside not this out dated draconian NPHET advice that is actually bad for our heath peddled by Martin.

RobitTV

gozunda wrote: »

God you love your newspaper headlines and bona-fide "LEAKS". The independent and its sensationalised headlines :pac:

OK so here's one headline you obviously missed

Varadkar: Taoiseach did not say Level 5 would last until May

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40230062.html

Meanwhile in the real world. The good news is that the infection rates looks like to be going in the right direction although the rate has slowed somewhat but is decreasing.

From January when Ireland had the highest infection rate in the world - that has come down significantly. with May being the most likely date when thats right down. The vaccination program is ongoing and is making progress.

Happy now?

Not my headlines. Not my words. Take this up with the Irish Independent if you have an issue with their reporting. Try and be honest and stop trying to suggest they are my headlines or my words. More falsehoods.

Ah ok, so the exact quotations from the Irish Independent article are false? right I will take your word for it. You have linked one single article while I have provided you with direct quotations from ministers inside the cabinet meeting. Hmmm...

Read this article and you won't have to cherry pick - No meeting in groups outdoors or travel further than 5km until May under new plan - Link

If you want you can repeat back to me the exact quotations from the article above.

Have a nice day.

gozunda

daydorunrun wrote: »

Agree 100%
In fact I’d go as far as to say the Government would be relived if people started to do all these things themselves without being granted permission to. It takes the heat off them having to grant permission so the finger of blame can’t be pointed at them. After Christmas they are afraid to make calls on relaxing restrictions.
The problem is the longer you keep tight restrictions the more likely you are to see people taking risks when it’s decreed they can. Some people make decisions on what’s allowed rather that what is safe.

Whoa going to stop you right there.

In which part of our national psyche have we forgotten that Ireland had the HIGHEST rate of infection in the world a little over a month ago in January? And that yes restrictions were required to bring that down?

And No the government would not " be relived if people started to do all these things themselves without being granted permission to"

That's exactly what you are being asked not to do ffs.

Germany also had rising case numbers and has had a much longer period of really tight restrictions since early December.

And no they didnt get to play silly buggers over Christmas like we did but they did keep the lid on their rate of infections. And we need to do the same.

The good news is it looks like our rate of infection is now decreasing albeit slowly. And yes restrictions will be rolled back and no its highly unlikely we will be in level 5 all the way to May. That's just bs media sensationalism.

aidoh

Hadn't checked it for a few weeks but the 'main' Coronavirus thread is starting to look a lot more like this one.
I see as well it in my own circle of family and friends that people who were previously the most ardent pro-restriction government cheerleaders are now waking up to how devastating these continued lockdowns are, especially since there is absolutely no stated end-point.
I think I read somewhere that the 'end-goal' plan is <100 cases every day for a month before any significant reopening is considered but the fact that I have to go and dig through reams of articles to find out anything about that just highlights how terrible our governments communication has been.

As I said LAST summer, most people know what's best for their own health better than a handful of supposed technocrats. Most people can meet up for a stroll, outdoor lunch or maybe even house visits (God forbid!) and still keep their wits about them and not contract covid.

Media coverage remains utterly disgraceful. No discussion on whether the lockdown is effective. No discussion on whether the vaccines are actually effective. No discussion on whether masks even work. But plenty of worry about new strains and constant scapegoating of things like outdoor sports, dogwalkers, pubs, haircuts and kids shoe measurings (!?) being deadly dangerous.

I love my country but if I was a younger man I seriously think I'd be on the first plane out of this joyless kip in the morning.

FintanMcluskey

thebaz wrote: »

Meanwhile the Guardian and British scientists admit last summer Fear about crowded beaches was all wrong and the virus doesnt really spread outside , unless you are extremly close :-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/how-the-beach-super-spreader-myth-can-inform-uks-future-covid-response

What is going on , where is our leadership in leading us to live with the virus , where is our investigate journalism ? - the virus spreads in stuffy indoor enclosures , we should be encouraged to go outside not this out dated draconian NPHET advice that is actually bad for our heath peddled by Martin.

The science the lockdown supporters will use to counter argue what your link supports is that people moving about spread Covid.

That’s where Ireland will remain stuck for months.

Moving about spreads Covid.

Investigative journalism is long dead unfortunately, that’s not a good result for democracy.

Ireland is insisting that its citizens, having been under the EUs longest & strictest lockdown since March 2020, will remain so for months ahead.

Isolating the sick and their contacts via testing and tracing is quarantine, isolating everyone is borderline tyranny.

RobitTV

Thought I would quote what I posted earlier as some users don't believe the information that is coming directly from the Irish Independent or the cabinet meeting itself...

Link to the article

RobitTV wrote: »

Some quotes from the Irish Independent article:

No meeting outdoors or travel further than 5km until May under new plan

The country is facing into at least 10 more weeks of lockdown

Three ministers who attended the meeting insisted there will be no easing of restrictions until May

Ministers said the Government will consider easing the 5km travel ban and people may also be permitted to meet outdoors if the virus is under control in MAY.

Cluedo Monopoly

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Other countries have less severe restrictions and don't seem to be descending into apocalyptic wastelands full of new mutations.

I don't think we should be opening up entirely or anything close to it. But maybe we could get rid of the 5km restriction and let people meet outside sometime before the summer?

But are people really keeping to the 5km limit? I would imagine most ignore it. I know loads of people including myself going for walks/treks/cycles well beyond 5km. I live in a rural area and I am always alone to be fair
All people need to say at checkpoints is that they are going shopping, bringing food to an elderly person or visiting a grave etc.

Hellrazer

gozunda wrote: »

That's the crux there. Higher case numbers mean associated hospital and ICU numbers.

Im not disputing that.

This banging on about the death rate like the projections which were given at the beginning of the pandemic were just that - projections. We know the current death rate. The issue right through since February 2920 has been keeping the rate of infection down so the hospitals aren't overrun and we were touch and go with that in January. Thankfully the current rate of infection is now on the way down. It is predicted that with the current rate of decline of between 2%-4% we will be at between 100- 120 by May.

We`ll still be locked down in 2920 the way tis lot are thinking :D:D

Im with both you and boggles by the way that not allowing hospitals to be overcome with admissions is a reason for these lockdowns but look at it from another point of view. Had the government ramped things up and prepared we would not be in a lock down this long.

The issue right from the start was that the 1st lockdown was to allow the government prepare and ramp up for further surges / out breaks so society could continue to operate.

They have not done this one bit. They have sat on their hands and literally done **** all to protect our vulnerable all for a virus that has a death rate in the overall population of 0.08% and a death rate in our most vulnerable of only 0.5%

The fault lies with this government who cannot protect its citizens.

That's the point Im trying to make - it wont kill healthy people and the government should have foreseen this and got the measures in place to protect those vulnerable people.

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The science the lockdown supporters will use to counter argue your link supports is that people moving about spread Covid.

That’s where Ireland will remain stuck for months.

Moving about spreads Covid.

Investigative journalism is long dead unfortunately, that’s not a good result for democracy.

Ireland is insisting that its citizens, having been under the EUs longest & strictest lockdown since March 2020, will remain so for months ahead.

Isolating the sick and their contacts via testing and tracing is quarantine, isolating everyone is borderline tyranny.

not to mention that the irish government seem to be exclusively clued in on mutations and a 4th wave that ive seen no one else mention so it looks like 2022 is going to be equally as fun going by what Leo has said

GT89

St.Spodo wrote: »

Independent reporting this morning that people won't be allowed meet up outside until "May at the earliest." That's outrageous.

Does anyone actually follow those rules I regularly meet my friends and so do so do most people I know

Graham

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I don't think we should be opening up entirely or anything close to it. But maybe we could get rid of the 5km restriction and let people meet outside sometime before the summer?

I'd agree assuming the numbers continue to drop at the current rate.

I do expect we'll see restrictions eace gradually between now and summer.

FintanMcluskey

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

But are people really keeping to the 5km limit? I would imagine most ignore it. I know loads of people including myself going for walks/treks/cycles well beyond 5km. I am always alone to be fair.
All people need to say at checkpoints is that they are going shopping, bringing food to an elderly person or visiting a grave etc.

You can try to deceive the Gardaí, it’s not an approach most people are comfortable with.

Probably not a great result for society in future if people become proficient at breaking laws.

The Garda has issued almost 5,000 fines for non-essential travel, new figures show.

The Garda reminded people that a driver and the adult passengers in a car, as well as cyclists or walkers in groups, can each be fined for breach of non-essential travel regulations.

Pepsirebel

St.Spodo wrote: »

Independent reporting this morning that people won't be allowed meet up outside until "May at the earliest." That's outrageous.

Donnelly was on Newstalk the other morning and during an "interview" with ciara kelly said when asked if she could meet up with him for a walk, he said ya & we could grab a takeaway coffee!

Is that not meeting up

ypres5

Graham wrote: »

I'd agree assuming the numbers continue to drop at the current rate.

I do expect we'll see restrictions eace gradually between now and summer.

i hope you're right but going by everything that's been said by the government they're not planning on giving an inch to people

Doctor Jimbob

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

But are people really keeping to the 5km limit? I would imagine most ignore it. I know loads of people including myself going for walks/treks/cycles well beyond 5km. I live in a rural area and I am always alone to be fair
All people need to say at checkpoints is that they are going shopping, bringing food to an elderly person or visiting a grave etc.

I'd say less people are keeping to it but there are still plenty who are hesitant to break restrictions despite the fact they're negatively impacted by them. Keeping the harsh restrictions in place and hoping for compliance is a lazy alternative to proper enforcement of looser restrictions.

Hellrazer

ypres5 wrote: »

not to mention that the irish government seem to be exclusively clued in on mutations and a 4th wave that ive seen no one else mention so it looks like 2022 is going to be equally as fun going by what Leo has said

The gas thing is every virus mutates. FFS that's why the flu vaccine has to be updated every single year.

Covid will probably mutate a few times until the end of this pandemic but we cant lock the country down just because it might mutate or because of a new variant. I can almost guarantee there will be 20 + variants of this before we`re done.

thebaz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Investigative journalism is long dead unfortunately, that’s not a good result for democracy.

Ireland is insisting that its citizens, having been under the EUs longest & strictest lockdown since March 2020, will remain so for months ahead.

I grew admiring great individualistic journos - mavericks - who really went out on ther own for a story - Watergate for example would not have broken -

Now it would seams journalists dont want to take a chance , just repeat the safe univestiagtive mantra for fear of a backlash on Twitter , with Fear inducing headlines for click bait - we need strong individualitic maverick jornos more than ever - but sadly I dont think any of the main media outlets like RTE or the Indo would hire them - in fact I know so.
Fair play to the Guardian for running the story above.

Doctor Jimbob

Graham wrote: »

I'd agree assuming the numbers continue to drop at the current rate.

I do expect we'll see restrictions eace gradually between now and summer.

I hope you're right but it feels like the earliest end date being considered is being pushed back every day. It seems ridiculous that we're under the same restrictions as early January despite a massive reduction in case numbers and hospitalisations.

Cluedo Monopoly

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You can try to deceive the Gardaí, it’s not an approach most people are comfortable with.

Probably not a great result for society in future if people become proficient at breaking laws.

There is a town around 12 miles from me. I drive there to do shopping. On the way to that town there is a forest park and a mountain bike trail. I often go for a long walk (1-2 hours) or a cycle (1-2 hours) and then get my shopping and go home. I am not interacting with anyone. The virus doesn't pounce on me because I have exceeded 5km. I rarely meet a checkpoint. 5 times in 1 year and 3 of those times were on a single day when the Gardai were doing a high visibility day.

FintanMcluskey

Graham wrote: »

I do expect we'll see restrictions eace gradually between now and summer.

That’s good news Graham.

Only it’s completely irrelevant because those making the decisions are saying the complete opposite.

It’s evident it will follow the same protocol as last Summer. The metrics have not changed.

Construction still closed is evidence of that.

Until the metrics used to implement restrictions are changed, noting will change

ypres5

Hellrazer wrote: »

The gas thing is every virus mutates. FFS that's why the flu vaccine has to be updated every single year.

Covid will probably mutate a few times until the end of this pandemic but we cant lock the country down just because it might mutate or because of a new variant. I can almost guarantee there will be 20 + variants of this before we`re done.

we're going to wind up with the united nations of variants by the time all is said and done. I looks forward to the conference where we're told to look out for the french variant, the chilean variant, the bhutanese variant and the dreaded Kyrgyzstani variant

JMNolan

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

There is a town around 12 miles from me. I drive there to do shopping. On the way to that town there is a forest park and a mountain bike trail. I often go for a long walk (1-2 hours) or a cycle (1-2 hours) and then get my shopping and go home. I am not interacting with anyone. The virus doesn't pounce on me because I have exceeded 5km. I rarely meet a checkpoint. 5 times in 1 year and 3 of those times were on a single day when the Gardai were doing a high visibility day.

Good for you. Use common sense instead of following these nonsensical guidelines.

Cluedo Monopoly

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'd say less people are keeping to it but there are still plenty who are hesitant to break restrictions despite the fact they're negatively impacted by them. Keeping the harsh restrictions in place and hoping for compliance is a lazy alternative to proper enforcement of looser restrictions.

Totally agree. Common sense should prevail.

I mean the idiots in government still haven't implemented a quarantine system for travel from abroad.

FintanMcluskey

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

There is a town around 12 miles from me. I drive there to do shopping. On the way to that town there is a forest park and a mountain bike trail. I often go for a long walk (1-2 hours) or a cycle (1-2 hours) and then get my shopping and go home. I am not interacting with anyone. The virus doesn't pounce on me because I have exceeded 5km. I rarely meet a checkpoint. 5 times in 1 year and 3 of those times were on a single day when the Gardai were doing a high visibility day.

We both agree the virus won’t pounce on you.

It’s now illegal to exercise past 5km of your home.

It’s a €100 fine. Lots of people have been fined. About 5000.

The law should not be there.

gozunda

RobitTV wrote: »

Thought I would quote what I posted earlier as some users don't believe the information that is coming directly from the Irish Independent or the cabinet meeting itself...

Link to the article

No becsuse its all bull**** sensationalised headlines with wishy washing stories about cabinet meetings. What they are implying is that information is being effectively leaked - so they can get away with claiming any old bs! There is no "direct quotes" from ministers in any of it.

Newspapers like the Indo like headlines like that because it sells.

I don't believe any of that has to be pointed out ...

IQO

No reopening of hospitality before mid-summer - Martin