Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Silentcorner

end of the road wrote: »

it's not behaving like a flue virus, it spreads harder and quicker then flue, even when controlled, which doesn't negate against the fact it still needs to be controlled via restrictions.
covid is not flue, there is no comparison, no amount of phrasing points will change the fact covid is not flue.
understanding that an alternative fact and or theory is not true is just recognising a reality, it is not being dragged into anything.
the fact is the government aren't using fear to do anything, but are using facts to bring home the reality of what can happen if the virus is not controlled, what has been over the media for the past year is facts and nothing else.
nothing wrong with daily figures, they are of interest to some, those who aren't interested could avoid them.

We've never been able to control a flu like virus so we don't know if our controls/restrictions are effective, that is the essence of the argument here.

We have no idea how many have been infected since last March.

So explain to me why did our ICU and Hospitalization rates stabilize between pretty much the summer and Dec? WE had three different levels of lockdown in that period.

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I struggle to see how it's acceptable on boards for a poster to allege he is sitting in a hotel in a pub servicing essential workers knowing this could anger a lot of people who don't have such options.

That's why I want him to tell us where it is.

Google essential workers hotels in Dublin.

They all have dinner options, usually between 6-9.

Why would it anger you Kermit?

Benimar

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Google essential workers hotels in Dublin.

They all have dinner options, usually between 6-9.

Why would it anger you Kermit?

If they can be Googled, and it’s all above board, why not say where it is?

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Google essential workers hotels in Dublin.

They all have dinner options, usually between 6-9.

Why would it anger you Kermit?

You said you are in a pub. Correct? Ergo you are alleging there is a hotel currently operating an in house pub in Dublin for essential workers.

So tell us which hotel it is.

You are either winding people up or you're not.

Which is it?

Mr. Karate

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I struggle to see how it's acceptable on boards for a poster to allege he is sitting in a hotel in a pub servicing essential workers knowing this could anger a lot of people who don't have such options.

That's why I want him to tell us where it is.

No you want him to tell you so that you can ring the Guards.

bettyoleary

Whatsisname wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. This was very evident in recent reports that the over 50s have rushed to book holidays this summer after the vaccine rollouts.



Now I don't really care if they do, but its a bit rich that we've spent a year under numerous lockdowns and restrictions to protect this age group, who immediately go, "seeya later" to everyone else behind them in the queue.

I often wonder if this virus targeted young people more, would older people have given up a year of their lives. I'm not sure they would.

id say they would have.

bettyoleary

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I struggle to see how it's acceptable on boards for a poster to allege he is sitting in a hotel in a pub servicing essential workers knowing this could anger a lot of people who don't have such options.

That's why I want him to tell us where it is.

It dosent exist Kermit because essential workers have the kop on not to go, hence why the majority of sane people stick to the rules. Take no notice of the idiot, he had nothing better to do before Covid and will have nothing after to do other than try to wind people up.;)

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

We've never been able to control a flu like virus so we don't know if our controls/restrictions are effective, that is the essence of the argument here.

We have no idea how many have been infected since last March.

So explain to me why did our ICU and Hospitalization rates stabilize between pretty much the summer and Dec? WE had three different levels of lockdown in that period.

Flu is pretty controlled now.

And your last point. You answered your own question

end of the road

Harpon wrote: »

We’ve all been living an absolute miserable existence the last year because of his failed lockdown strategies, if he continues to point the finger of blame at the general population I can see anger boiling over soon.

failed lockdown strategies that have been a success and achieved the main objective?
some failure, alright.

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Why should he tell you? So you can be the "good citizen" and be a snitch?

no it is so he can provide proof for his claims.
anyway, if he is indeed telling the truth, the hotel involved will either be
1. breaking the rules meaning they are laughing in the faces of those abiding by the rules and are contributing to extra restrictions, meaning it has to be shut down.
or
2. acting within a new rule that has been introduced without any sort of publicity, for which essential workers would have a right to know about.

GazzaL

bettyoleary wrote: »

It dosent exist Kermit because essential workers have the kop on not to go, hence why the majority of sane people stick to the rules. Take no notice of the idiot, he had nothing better to do before Covid and will have nothing after to do other than try to wind people up.;)

Essential workers have the cop on not to go to a hotel while they're working away from home? Do you think they're sleeping in their cars and vans or what? :pac:

Necro

bettyoleary wrote: »

It dosent exist Kermit because essential workers have the kop on not to go, hence why the majority of sane people stick to the rules. Take no notice of the idiot, he had nothing better to do before Covid and will have nothing after to do other than try to wind people up.;)

Mod:

Week's forum ban for breach of your threadban

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Flu is pretty controlled now.

And your last point. You answered your own question

The flu is why our health service is stretched ever winter, like clockwork...our local hospital closes for visitors for a few weeks every year...we do not have control over the flu virus, we live with it.

So you agree with me then, severe lockdowns have little effect on ICU and hospitalization rates as seen from June to Dec last year.

pjohnson

Remember its totally not about the pints everyone.


No suprise this cohort also have a dislike for the Gardai. Probably had quite a few run ins.

Mr. Karate

pjohnson wrote: »

Remember its totally not about the pints everyone.

The nerve of people wanting to enjoy themselves again after 10 months of lockdowns and heavy restrictions.

Yes, People are ready to get on with their lives. Whether its going for a pint, going to the gym, going to a movie, going to visit their family and friends or travel around the Country without worry of the Gestapo coming after you if you dare go an inch over 5kms.

GazzaL

GazzaL wrote: »

Essential workers have the cop on not to go to a hotel while they're working away from home? Do you think they're sleeping in their cars and vans or what? :pac:

Pay no heed, lots of moochers on this thread angling for the desired reaction. Possessed of so much bitterness that that it spills over and they advertise their desire to control the lives of others. Which manifests in "could you tell me where you are", "I rang the Guards out of (insincere) concern for the public", "alcohol turns people into filthy savages" and other codology. Let them stew in their own ignorance.

Silentcorner

pjohnson wrote: »

Remember its totally not about the pints everyone.

Is this a wind up.

You know that people have lost their livelihoods, businesses, all social activities, contact with family and friends right?

For the most intrusive Government policy that has never been seen before and nobody can justify without twisting data to maintain a level of fear and anxiety in the entire population?

Is that the best you can do?

Necro

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I struggle to see how it's acceptable on boards for a poster to allege he is sitting in a hotel in a pub servicing essential workers knowing this could anger a lot of people who don't have such options.

That's why I want him to tell us where it is.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Google essential workers hotels in Dublin.

They all have dinner options, usually between 6-9.

Why would it anger you Kermit?

pjohnson wrote: »

Remember its totally not about the pints everyone.


No suprise this cohort also have a dislike for the Gardai. Probably had quite a few run ins.

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The nerve of people wanting to enjoy themselves again after 10 months of lockdowns and heavy restrictions.

Yes, People are ready to get on with their lives. Whether its going for a pint, going to the gym, going to a movie, going to visit their family and friends or travel around the Country without worry of the Gestapo coming after you if you dare go an inch over 5kms.

Deleted User wrote: »

Pay no heed, lots of moochers on this thread angling for the desired reaction. Possessed of so much bitterness that that it spills over and they advertise their desire to control the lives of others. Which manifests in "could you tell me where you are", "I rang the Guards out of (insincere) concern for the public", "alcohol turns people into filthy savages" and other codology. Let them stew in their own ignorance.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is this a wind up.

You know that people have lost their livelihoods, businesses, all social activities, contact with family and friends right?

For the most intrusive Government policy that has never been seen before and nobody can justify without twisting data to maintain a level of fear and anxiety in the entire population?

Is that the best you can do?

Mod:


Can you all take it down a notch and stop with the petty sniping at each other. There's no point in this thread existing if it's just going to be a constant battleground so rein it in every single one of you and if you cannot discuss the topic in a civil manner, put each other on ignore

Clonmel1000

pjohnson wrote: »

Remember its totally not about the pints everyone.


No suprise this cohort also have a dislike for the Gardai. Probably had quite a few run ins.

What a strange outlook on life.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

The flu is why our health service is stretched ever winter, like clockwork...our local hospital closes for visitors for a few weeks every year...we do not have control over the flu virus, we live with it.

So you agree with me then, severe lockdowns have little effect on ICU and hospitalization rates as seen from June to Dec last year.

This is really infantile stuff at this stage.

Lockdown - cases fall very low, followed by hospitalisations and icu

Ease restrictions - slowly cases rise because more mixing is going on but cases a so low and enough restrictions remain that it does not seem much

Exponential growth - with any slow growth rate, eventually sheer numbers take over and it accelerates - in September - out of season for you like seasonal flu theory - icu and hospital cases increase

Restrictions increased - cases and hospital rates fall. Crucially it does not remove a critical mass of cases

Restrictions ease - case and hospitalisation sky rocket because instead of starting from 20 we start from 300, and add in everyone deciding, understandably to see family.

Restriction increased- cases fall, hospitalisations stabilising and will fall within the next week or two.

The evidence is overwhelming.

Some refuse to see that the sky is indeed blue

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is really infantile stuff at this stage.

Lockdown - cases fall very low, followed by hospitalisations and icu

Ease restrictions - slowly cases rise because more mixing is going on but cases a so low and enough restrictions remain that it does not seem much

Exponential growth - with any slow growth rate, eventually sheer numbers take over and it accelerates - in September - out of season for you like seasonal flu theory - icu and hospital cases increase

Restrictions increased - cases and hospital rates fall. Crucially it does not remove a critical mass of cases

Restrictions ease - case and hospitalisation sky rocket because instead of starting from 20 we start from 300, and add in everyone deciding, understandably to see family.

Restriction increased- cases fall, hospitalisations stabilising and will fall within the next week or two.

The evidence is overwhelming.

Some refuse to see that the sky is indeed blue

Where I am, restaurants, bars, casinos, bowling, all shops, salons etc have been open since May. During the summer surge bars were closed, cases came down. We are now in another surge. Nothing has closed, just limited to 25% capacity in bars and restaurants, and cases and hospitalisations are now coming down. No exponential growth in either situation and no health system collapse (i do get though that capacity here just for my city even is higher than all of ireland). Cases plateaued at around 2000 per day at the highest. Meanwhile, California next door has been in restrictions for almost a year and cases were the highest in the entire country for weeks. Completely out of control. Seems to be coming down now though.

If lockdowns are the way to control this how do you explain that scenario? See also, North and south Dakota. Their cases have fallen drastically since November, with no lockdowns.

(The reason further shut downs weren't implemented btw is the governor (who is a democrat before accusations of uncaring red/trump states etc) straight up acknowledged that the state can't afford it. Im happy with this approach, things were and still are really dire for a lot of people but at least it isn't as bad as it could be with another total shutdown, and it still seems to be working to keep a lid on the virus rather than an unrealistic zero covid approach)

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

This is really infantile stuff at this stage.

Lockdown - cases fall very low, followed by hospitalisations and icu

Ease restrictions - slowly cases rise because more mixing is going on but cases a so low and enough restrictions remain that it does not seem much

Exponential growth - with any slow growth rate, eventually sheer numbers take over and it accelerates - in September - out of season for you like seasonal flu theory - icu and hospital cases increase

Restrictions increased - cases and hospital rates fall. Crucially it does not remove a critical mass of cases

Restrictions ease - case and hospitalisation sky rocket because instead of starting from 20 we start from 300, and add in everyone deciding, understandably to see family.

Restriction increased- cases fall, hospitalisations stabilising and will fall within the next week or two.

The evidence is overwhelming.

Some refuse to see that the sky is indeed blue

But the ICU rates were very low through Sept to Dec...of course, the time of year would drive cases, gradually, but that would have happened if we were still in level 5 or level 1 if the schools were open or not, we were testing people who weren't in any way sick at the time...which is why the ICU rate is so important.

We get an increase in Oct/Nov/Dec and then we see a surge like we saw last March/April only this time it is the dead of winter when we always see a surge in viral infections...this current surge will end in about 2 weeks, we will still see positive cases in Feb/MAr/April but we will not see a surge, that is just my opinion, based on what we have seen since last March.

We have had two surges in ICU and Hospitalization rates, last March/April and now Dec/Jan...it is my position that those surges were unavoidable and the strict lockdowns in between, the track and trace system were all pretty much a waste of time.

I do believe in restrictions at the peak times, but I don't believe they need to be as strict as they are...where as our behaviour last summer was off the wall stuff.

We need to look at the virus in the context of our collective immune systems and not as a one dimensional virus otherwise we will be doing the Covid Hokey Cokey for years to come!!!

Silentcorner

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Where I am, restaurants, bars, casinos, bowling, all shops, salons etc have been open since May. During the summer surge bars were closed, cases came down. We are now in another surge. Nothing has closed, just limited to 25% capacity in bars and restaurants, and cases and hospitalisations are now coming down. No exponential growth in either situation and no health system collapse (i do get though that capacity here just for my city even is higher than all of ireland). Cases plateaued at around 2000 per day at the highest. Meanwhile, California next door has been in restrictions for almost a year and cases were the highest in the entire country for weeks. Completely out of control. Seems to be coming down now though.

If lockdowns are the way to control this how do you explain that scenario? See also, North and south Dakota. Their cases have fallen drastically since November, with no lockdowns.

(The reason further shut downs weren't implemented btw is the governor (who is a democrat before accusations of uncaring red/trump states etc) straight up acknowledged that the state can't afford it. Im happy with this approach, things were and still are really dire for a lot of people but at least it isn't as bad as it could be and it still seems to be working to keep a lid on the virus rather than an unrealistic zero covid approach)

Actually, I may be wrong on this, but the North Dakota/South Dakota outcome's is very interesting, very similar States, but North Dakota did impose masks and lockdowns but South Dakota didn't...and got the same result.

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Where I am, restaurants, bars, casinos, bowling, all shops, salons etc have been open since May. During the summer surge bars were closed, cases came down. We are now in another surge. Nothing has closed, just limited to 25% capacity in bars and restaurants, and cases and hospitalisations are now coming down. No exponential growth in either situation and no health system collapse (i do get though that capacity here just for my city even is higher than all of ireland). Cases plateaued at around 2000 per day at the highest. Meanwhile, California next door has been in restrictions for almost a year and cases were the highest in the entire country for weeks. Completely out of control. Seems to be coming down now though.

If lockdowns are the way to control this how do you explain that scenario? See also, North and south Dakota. Their cases have fallen drastically since November, with no lockdowns.

(The reason further shut downs weren't implemented btw is the governor (who is a democrat before accusations of uncaring red/trump states etc) straight up acknowledged that the state can't afford it. Im happy with this approach, things were and still are really dire for a lot of people but at least it isn't as bad as it could be and it still seems to be working to keep a lid on the virus rather than an unrealistic zero covid approach)

Not knowing where you live I can’t comment. But maybe educating yourself on the Dakotas may help. Have they remained fully open? How do their numbers compare to here if we adjust for population? They are 7th and 8 in the US in deaths per million. California is 39th.

Usual suspects piling on with thanks without even a cursory fact check

JRant

Irish Steve wrote: »

If someone drives the wrong way down a motorway, then I have every right to question what they are doing, and if I see someone doing it, and don't report it, then I am culpable for what may happen, even though I am not personally doing anything wrong. Me doing nothing in that case could result in the deaths of others who were doing nothing wrong.

If I am affected by the actions of another person who is acting in direct contravention to the requirements that have been laid down relating to Covid, then I have every right to question their actions.

With the surge that happened as a result of the December release, there is no way that a short sharp lockdown is going to restore the status quo ante, the numbers that it has already spread to, and the ongoing spread that hasn't been stopped yet means that the present lockdown is likely to continue for at least another month, almost certainly longer, depending on how many house parties and sheebeen gatherings take place in the meantime.

Covid is exceptional circumstances, there has not been a worldwide pandemic like it for close on a century. Society has changed so much in that 100 years, and the way it's changed has meant that an event that would have only affected other countries over a long period of time because of the delays in travel are now capable of affecting whole continents in a matter of hours, so the spread of Covid happened in a very different timescale to any of the previous pandemics that are recorded. The specialists responsible for pandemic management have all been caught unaware and not ready by a number of aspects of how Covid developed and spread, and there's no doubting that they are not fully in control of what's happening right now, because of the lack of knowledge and experience.

Why do you think the older generations have pulled up the ladder on the younger generations? I'm not seeing anything so discriminatory in what's been done so far, so you're going to have to explain that thought in a bit more detail.

Driving the wrong way down a motorway is in no way comparable to someone walking around unknowingly carrying a virus. It's preposterous to even try compare them.
The suspension of our constitutional rights, as has happened since this began has been egregious on a number of fronts. They even toyed with the idea of giving Garda the power to enter homes to break up "parties" but quickly backpedaled on that one.

I don't mind these severe restrictions when the time calls for them and this is one of those times. I do mind the continually tramping of our rights over this past 10 months even when numbers were statistically insignificant. Any imposition of these measures should only be for the shortest time possible to get the numbers down and relaxed until needed again. Dublin has been in Level 3.9 or higher since early September. That's a disgraceful amount of time and shows a complete failure of the government and NPHET to do anything other than lockdown.

To your last point, who do you think are disproportionately affected by lockdown? It's the younger generation, many on zero hour contracts or working in the hospitality sector which has been destroyed to protect those most vulnerable.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

But the ICU rates were very low through Sept to Dec...of course, the time of year would drive cases, gradually, but that would have happened if we were still in level 5 or level 1 if the schools were open or not, we were testing people who weren't in any way sick at the time...which is why the ICU rate is so important.

We get an increase in Oct/Nov/Dec and then we see a surge like we saw last March/April only this time it is the dead of winter when we always see a surge in viral infections...this current surge will end in about 2 weeks, we will still see positive cases in Feb/MAr/April but we will not see a surge, that is just my opinion, based on what we have seen since last March.

We have had two surges in ICU and Hospitalization rates, last March/April and now Dec/Jan...it is my position that those surges were unavoidable and the strict lockdowns in between, the track and trace system were all pretty much a waste of time.

I do believe in restrictions at the peak times, but I don't believe they need to be as strict as they are...where as our behaviour last summer was off the wall stuff.

We need to look at the virus in the context of our collective immune systems and not as a one dimensional virus otherwise we will be doing the Covid Hokey Cokey for years to come!!!

Incoherent nonsense.

The hospital and icu rate has been pretty consistent

Kunta Kinte

Mr. Karate wrote: »

The nerve of people wanting to enjoy themselves again after 10 months of lockdowns and heavy restrictions.

Yes, People are ready to get on with their lives. Whether its going for a pint, going to the gym, going to a movie, going to visit their family and friends or travel around the Country without worry of the Gestapo coming after you if you dare go an inch over 5kms.

The Gestapo eh? Interesting choice of term..........hmmmm..........

2nd time today you have compared the authorities here to Nazis.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115986070&postcount=234

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Incoherent nonsense.

The hospital and icu rate has been pretty consistent

Deleted User wrote: »

This is really infantile stuff at this stage.

Lockdown - cases fall very low, followed by hospitalisations and icu

Ease restrictions - slowly cases rise because more mixing is going on but cases a so low and enough restrictions remain that it does not seem much

Exponential growth - with any slow growth rate, eventually sheer numbers take over and it accelerates - in September - out of season for you like seasonal flu theory - icu and hospital cases increase

Restrictions increased - cases and hospital rates fall. Crucially it does not remove a critical mass of cases

Restrictions ease - case and hospitalisation sky rocket because instead of starting from 20 we start from 300, and add in everyone deciding, understandably to see family.

Restriction increased- cases fall, hospitalisations stabilising and will fall within the next week or two.

The evidence is overwhelming.

Some refuse to see that the sky is indeed blue

Is that all you can do, hurl insults.

Can you not even admit that we have only seen two surges in ICUs and Hospitalizations since March?

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not knowing where you live I can’t comment. But maybe educating yourself on the Dakotas may help. Have they remained fully open? How do their numbers compare to here if we adjust for population? They are 7th and 8 in the US in deaths per million. California is 39th.

Usual suspects piling on with thanks without even a cursory fact check

North Dakota did put in capacity limits and stopped some school sports. And the mask mandate. South Dakota didn't. Same result. Their surges are over.

We are talking about lockdowns and your contention that they are the only way to control the virus. Places like the Dakotas and California show that perhaps the virus follows a similar path regardless. No one is denying that lockdowns stem the flow, but its temporary, unless you stay in that state indefinitely. Things pick back up where they left off on reopening with the added collateral damage caused by them

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is that all you can do, hurl insults.

Can you not even admit that we have only seen two surges in ICUs and Hospitalizations since March?

It would help if there was some logic.

Why would it be theat the increase in hospital cases stopped in October? Was there any event that may explain it?

Newuser2

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I was speaking to someone high up in the UK government who said UK is anticipating this lockdown lasting until September.

I see no reason why Ireland will be any different.

BJ ?